Fire Emblem Speed inconsistencies. (Marth & Grima hypersonic?)

[Kyle_Ramos]

Okay.

We have Grima at Hypersonic even if Robin (Superhuman), Chrom (Subsonic) and Lucina (Subsonic)'s speeds are different. What scaling are we using?

Also, on Marth's case, we have Medeus at peak human. Why is Marth, out of all lords hypersonic? In both of his games, he faced nothing out of the ordinary for the other FE lords, that are subsonic. (And no one has even added the Shield of Seals to his inventory, i see. That would increase his durability to country or continental).

I say, have everything Fire Emblem at subsonic at be done with it.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I've noticed that our FE pages in general are pretty inconsistent like with Robin being wall level for killing Chrom...who has building level durability.

I agree that Subsonic is a good place to put most of them at, since dodging magic spells, bolts and throwing axes should net around that speed.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Indeed.


Also, we should swap Marth's picture for his Smash 4 version and add his Shield of Seals to his profile, which would make his durability either country level or continental.

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm not sure about the picture change idea. His Shin Monsho no Nazo artwork is his most recent canon artwork short of his appearance in Fates, but even then if we're going by Marth at his peak we should have him at his eldest.

Subsonic sounds good to me though.

Though I vaguely remember Bolting being cloud to ground lightning in the manga. I suppose I could go look at that.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Then, you would have to make a different marth page, since he would scale everyone upwards as well.

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm not saying change his stats, just keep his picture. It's Marth at his peak and we generally try to show them at their best.

If you want to add the smash picture, I guess you could put it in a tabber like we have with Corrin

 

[Flames_of_power64]

it's probably because his page is out dated. it doesn't even mention his fight with hardin (which i think should put him at build level for AP).

 

[Lina_Shields]

Now I am sitting here wondering, were there any calculations done for combat speed in regards to FE characters?

• Subsonic should only be considered travel speed, via description. However, seeing that FE is a turn-based type of game, we do not exactly see those characters actually shownto move from place to pace.

• Would it even be appropriate to calculate the speed of a character moved in that single turn in the first place?

• Considering that characters in FE are able to dodge bolts of lightning and random magic lasers, you think their combat speed could be higher than Subsonic?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

IMO, Subsonic should be the bare minimal for their combat speeds. I haven't played Awakening in awhile, but was dodging lightning magic actual dodging or aim dodging

 

[Reppuzan]

There could be arguments for either, but it should be noted that in cutscenes and supports they've dodged arrows and throwing knives despite not know where they came from.

 

[Flames_of_power64]

There could be arguments for either, but it should be noted that in cutscenes and supports they've dodged arrows and throwing knives despite not know where they came from.

well at least you can't say it's aimdodging.

 

[VircaTheDestroyer]

and it's not like they can dodge it all the time, since their dodging is based on a percentage roll.


It's much like if you roll a d20 and get a 20 to dodge a lightspeed attack, its more or less luck based.


But Subsonic makes sense since characters can flashstep in their animations (GBA and SNES ones)


Gaius from Awakening is a good one to look at for his speed and comparing him to most thief characters. As they are right now, some of the (most important due to scaling) pages are wanked imo.


Grima at City but Fire Dragon at Multi-Continent (When Marth can one shot dragons like this in his own game with the falchion)


Needs to be looked at more.

 

[Dark649]

Ok, i'll explain. Since the calculation were started by a sockpuppet i have no problems to downgrade the speeds, however that would end with reaction speed and not their normal speed. City level is more appropriate for Marth timeline, but i accept to downgrade Anankos, Corrin, Alm and Celica to City level because they cannot be stronger than Naga and Grima. Lastly i cannot downgrade characters from Eliwood/Roy timeline where the Fire Dragon and the others are High 6-A through this calc.

 

[Dark649]

Let me explain the timeline.

Elibe Timeline: Eliwood and Roy party where the final bosses and protagonists are scaled from the above calc.

Tellius Timeline: Ike and Micaiah party where the final bosses and protagonists are scaled from the above calc.

Archanea/Velentia Timeline: Seliph party, Marth party, Alm and Celica party, Chrom and Robi party, Corri party where the final bosses and protagonists are City level via scaling from Grima, who quickly destroyed a city.

Sacred Stones Timeline: Eirika and Ephraim party where the final bosses and protagonists are Country level via scaling from Formotiis, who quickly destroyed a country.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Meteor should still effect the non GBA titles, since that blog post was made entirely by me

Also, Valla is in another "world" and everything done to Valla was done by Anankos, stated by Good Anankos in Hidden Truths (Try to argue that common soldiers made a dimension of this size), the portal even opens and closes, solidifying Country level Anankos, as Valla is inside a "world" created by (most likely) Anankos, there is also absolutely no way that it's actually underneath the Bottomless Canyon as there's even a sky in Valla

 

[Dark649]

Sorry i did not knew about the other world thing, there should also be valid reason for Duma being superior to Naga. I also saw that the characters are able to casually dodge lightning and meteors, so that should scale to their normal speed like the Street Fighters characters are at least Supersonic+ for the same reason.

 

[Sailor_Musume]

Hey there, I just want you to know that the Massively Hypersonic calc was made by Lina Shields, not the recently blocked sockpuppet in question.

We should at least copy and paste it somewhere else instead of downgrading GBA, since lots of people agreed with that calc.

Two, Meteor does not scale to GBA since there is no Meteor on the GBA games.

Gaiden and Genealogy has too many serious inconsistencies to be scaled to Akaneia. Different Gods, Lore, there is no Bolting in ANY Akaneia games, the Falchion changes, There is no evidence of the events of Genealogy in Awakening, etc.

 

[Dark649]

Yes Misaka Mikoto. I checked that calcs and they are ok, i also understand that each game has their own timeline, spells and etc.

 

[Sailor_Musume]

Alright.

You can block me now.

 

[Sailor_Musume]

But be warned, i shall always look and care for this verse.

Always.

 

[Dark649]

In the future i will make a page to explain the difference between each timeline.

 

[Sailor_Musume]

Please do so, it would help explain the differences to new users.

There was a single timeline theory i heard about some months ago, but i am sure it doesnt change anything stat wise for the characters.

 

[Sailor_Musume]

Oh, Oh! dont forget TMS#FE is canon to the Akaneia timeline because Itsuki is a legit descendant of Marth.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

The game isn't canon tho.... Intelligent Systems didn't even really make most of it

 

[Sailor_Musume]

Well, it could fit in real nice if we consider it part of the akaneia timeline.

But if we dont consider it canon, then that page's stats are all wrong.

And someone...*Drum Roll*...Would have to...*Suspense*...Actually play that game to fix them.


Or watch a playthrough, who knows.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

But yeah, it does scale

 

[Sailor_Musume]

If it isnt considered canon, it really doesnt.

Also, some of Itsuki's skills are named after weapons from other games, so that might make it even more non-canon. (Ex. Sol Katti is a skill)

And who knows if the Idolsphere's pocket dimention is only city level in scale.

I am saying this because i made the Itsuki page and almost all stats there were made up by scaling from other games, which would be problematic now.

Hell, i thought the mirages were called performas.

 

[VircaTheDestroyer]

I still think "luck-dodging Lightning and meteors" doesn't constitue for Hypersonic Speed

 

[Reppuzan]

@Virca

When they canonically fight someone who uses it as their main weapon, I don't think it's so far-fetched to scale them off it.

If they didn't canonically dodge at least some of them, they would be nothing more than charred husks.

 

[Zianmoon2]

I feel Jugdral games should absolutely scale to the other games they currently do. The reason most events aren't shown in Awakening is because Jugdral is a separate continent. However, that shouldn't limit somebody like Naga from entering affairs in foreign continents. The Pegasus Sisters appear in Gaiden as well.

I wouldn't necessarily call dodging luck based either, as the speed stat has more of an impact on dodge rates, and the Skill stat has more of an impact on Hit Rates than luck. Bolting, which is an actual lightning attack, doesn't have the highest hit rate either, meaning that dodging bolting isn't a super impressive feat. In other words, yes, their speed is constituted.

 

[VircaTheDestroyer]

What about when green unit villagers can sometimes dodge attacks like lightning and bows, are we just going to chalk it up to "yup they are just that fast"?

 

[VircaTheDestroyer]

unless the speed of the lightning isn't as fast as actual lightning (which I was trying to mention before, much like the meteor attacks)

 

[Reppuzan]

@Virca

As you stated, there is some RNG involved. However, there's a difference between game mechanics and story events. If Lyn, Eliwood, and Hector did not dodge Ursula's use of Botling on a semi-regular basis, they would have died, since she can literally hit them from across the map.

 

[Zianmoon2]

Example of the Villagers and Bolting appearing in the same level?

 

[VircaTheDestroyer]

@Reppuzan

I understand her story attacks being canon so that much makes sense. Cutscenes help determine feats much easier than mechanics.

@Zianmoon2

That can really be any level of any Fire Emblem where you have to rescue Villagers, I wasn't specifically talking about the GBA games for that one.

 

[VircaTheDestroyer]

While on the topic of Speed, Doma(Duma) the god of Darkness in Fire Emblem Gaiden, has an Eye Beam laser attack, which Alm and co are capable of dodging. Lasers are what 186,000 mph?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Virca

First, we have rules about Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats. Second, not once did I bring up lightspeed or even relativistic Fire Emblem. Hell, even I called it ridiculous.

Strawmanning your way through this isn't making your point stronger.

 

[VircaTheDestroyer]

Glad I got your attention on that, I was only trying to mention it because I was watching Final Boss fights of Fire Emblem to see abilities that the Final Bosses possess

 

[VircaTheDestroyer]

and yes you didn't bring it up, I did, not strawmanning, I just genuinelly wanted to throw that tidbit out there, because it does pertain to the topic of "Speed"

And looking at the lasers Dodging Feats makes me rebut back to the "maybe the magical versions of the abilities like Lightning and Meteor just aren't as fast as their IRL counterparts"

Maybe they aren't much faster than a gunshot or an arrow being shot at them?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Virca

I heavily doubt that those beams are lightspeed, but would you mind showing scans?