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Fire Emblem Major CRT: 4-A

Would anyone happen to have the raw ? I mean the only size proof is being called "parallel" as far as I see.
 
Without the "parallel" we'd at least have 4-A due to the day/night cycle/starry sky shenanigans

However, the use of "world" throughout FE (mostly with Awakening onwards) has consistently been used to refer to universes and timelines
 
Yeah, process of elimination would make it universal. On one hand, "Parallel world" is flexible, but it must be dependent on what it's parallel to; country, planet, universe. But we can use eyeball analysis to know it would have to be 4-A at bare minimum; it can't just be planet or castle sized and it could be anywhere between 4-A and Universal+. But no one uses "Parallel world" to describe a 4-A sized pocket reality unless the universe is also a 4-A sized pocket reality; which is a weirder assumption. So parallel universe is the last thing when we take process of elimination into account.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Yeah, process of elimination would make it universal. On one hand, "Parallel world" is flexible, but it must be dependent on what it's parallel to; country, planet, universe. But we can use eyeball analysis to know it would have to be 4-A at bare minimum; it can't just be planet or castle sized and it could be anywhere between 4-A and Universal+. But no one uses "Parallel world" to describe a 4-A sized pocket reality unless the universe is also a 4-A sized pocket reality; which is a weirder assumption. So parallel universe is the last thing when we take process of elimination into account.
Click to expand...
Well the fact that it comes from Fire Emblem is why I want to check the raw to see.

The verse has a lot of realms/worlds with different time n stuff with varying size, and FE Fates is no exception.

You have legit tier 2 Anankos in DLC story, so it wouldn't be incoherent for this feat to be tier 2, but at the same time Idk I just prefer being sure.
 
Honestly, I still see Low 2-C as doable. I think it is perhaps time to tally up the staff support of the CRT at this stage since there have been no major discussions for a while.
 
Agree (12): DarkDragonMedeus, TheGatememer, Edwellken, XitSign, XSOULOFCINDERX, Jibz, XXKINGXX69, Zencha9, Confluctor, The_Axiom_Of_Virgo, thetechmaster36, Elizhaa

Disagree (1): Bobsican? (Argued that the Guide shouldn't be canon for having a 4koma manga)

Neutral (1): Eficiente? (Is fine with "Likely"), QuasiYuri (needs to check raw)

If I have misplaced/forgotten someone, feel free to let me know
 
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Alright, if the vote stays roughly the same after some time, I think it could be fine to apply the changes as the CRT looks accepted.
 


I have tracked down the raw, took a while, while not entirely "accurate" the Google translation was similar to the kantopia translation
 
I meant the game's raw. Although the guide does confirm she creates "another world called Star Realm".

I'm asking for the game raw for two reasons:

-Check how the Astral Plane is called in the game's raw (since you said it is called Star Realm in it)
-Check that sentence about "it is known as..." which doesn't make much sense for something she apparently just created
 
The game never mentions that she created it, that's 100% where the guide comes in



They arrive at 26:55, don't know when the exact line is so that's the most relevant timestamp I can find, but it should be shortly after
 
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Found the exact timestamp, translated up to what's used in the OP.

Lilith: カムイ様が暮らす大陸とは 異なる世界--------星界です

It is a world different from the continent Master Kamui lives in----Star World.

Kamui: 星界・・・? 君がここに連れてきてくれたのか?

Star World...? Did you bring us here?

Lilith: はい｡ 神祖竜の加護を受けたこの地でなら、 こうしてお話しすることができます。

Yes. In this land blessed by the dragon god (likely how First Dragons are called?), I can speak with you.

カムイ様。 ここなら安全です。ゆっくり休息なさってください。
Master Kamui. Here is a safe place. Please have a rest.

今、お休みになれる場所をご用意致しますね･･･
Now, let me prepare a place for you to rest...

Kamui: 今のは･･･竜脈・･・･?
Just now... A Dragon Vein....?

Lilith: そうです。 この異界は 竜の力で満たされていますから…
Indeed. This other world is filled with the power of the dragons...

時空を司る星竜の加護を受けた この世界は･･･
This world, blessed by the dragon god who rules space-time...

竜脈も時間の流れも、 元の世界とは違います
This world's Time and Dragon Veins' flow is different as well.

Kamui: まさか、こんな世界があるだなんて･･･ まるで夢や幻みたいだ。
I never thought such a world existed... It's like a dream or an illusion.

Based on what's being said here, I would have to say the guide being unreliable is most likely.

Lilith really seems to imply this world isn't here doing at all, and Kamui respond by saying he had no idea this world existed, which wouldn't make much sense if it was just created at that moment.
Besides, the fact that she compares to Kamui's continent rather than the entire universe isn't really a good indication of universal scale.

Based on that, I change my stance to disagree.
 
There's many things this could be, it could be Lilith being intentionally misleading as per her father's instructions (unlikely in this situation, but plausible), it also could be an instance of guidebooks revealing information that the games otherwise neglect or a discrepancy between the game's writers (Fates, for some reason, had multiple writers that didn't always come to an agreement)

Could also be another guidebook retcon like with Arete and Mikoto being sisters ingame, before a guidebook completely separated them on a family tree (tbh this could also be a result of Fates writers being Fates writers)

It's also visually larger than just the continent containing Nohr and Hoshido as you can observe day and night/starry sky shenanigans and worlds being defined by their continents is a thing FE does all the time, it doesn't just make all the universes a couple continents.

Although with the discrepancy between story and guidebook, I am willing to make this a "possibly" tier
 
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The Astral Plane in the scan(s) is only referring to My Castle, which is only a small part of the entire Astral Plane. The entire Astral Plane itself is the starry background. However, the two terms are used interchangeably in Fates. So Corrin not having any idea the Astral Plane existed doesn't exactly contradict anything, since the entirety of the Astral Plane itself existed before My Castle was created.
 
JustSomeWeirdo said:
There's many things this could be, it could be Lilith being intentionally misleading as per her father's instructions (unlikely in this situation, but plausible), it also could be an instance of guidebooks revealing information that the games otherwise neglect or a discrepancy between the game's writers (Fates, for some reason, had multiple writers that didn't always come to an agreement)
Click to expand...
Doesn't make sense for her to lie about that. Besides the OP assumes she's reluable.
Also, in these cases the work>guidebook with questionnable canonicity
JustSomeWeirdo said:
Could also be another guidebook retcon like with Arete and Mikoto being sisters ingame, before a guidebook completely separated them on a family tree (tbh this could also be a result of Fates writers being Fates writers)
Click to expand...
Mikoto/Arete situation is just precised to be "sister in spirit". However even that guidebook is contradicted by a FEH one.

There's no reason to assume retcon here.
JustSomeWeirdo said:
It's also visually larger than just the continent containing Nohr and Hoshido as you can observe day and night/starry sky shenanigans and worlds being defined by their continents is a thing FE does all the time, it doesn't just make all the universes a couple continents.
Click to expand...
The Deeprealms also have such a thing, yet they are portrayed as fairly small areas.

And they use continent because that's the scale of most FE games. Your argument for universal size was that it was called "a world parallel to yours"; except it isn't.

I also think it's highly unlikely for Lilith to somehow create a place with the power of several of the First Dragons + an entire Dragon Veins flow with only one random Dragon Vein.

TheGatememer said:
The Astral Plane in the scan(s) is only referring to My Castle, which is only a small part of the entire Astral Plane. The entire Astral Plane itself is the starry background. However, the two terms are used interchangeably in Fates. So Corrin not having any idea the Astral Plane existed doesn't exactly contradict anything, since the entirety of the Astral Plane itself existed before My Castle was created.
Click to expand...
It doesn't. She clearly talks about the world in itself and there's no real doubt on that (unless you think the OP is wrong and Lilith created My Castle).

Except the OP isn't arguing that Lilith created a small area with some building, it's arguing that she created the entire thing.

You're basically saying the exact opposite of your vote here.
 
Also given what the info changes, it would be good for everyone who commented before to take a look at it.
 
TheGatememer said:
Lilith definitely didn't create the entirety of the Astral Plane, considering the entirety of it is at least 2-B. She only created My Castle, which is still a dimension located in the Astral Plane. My Castle is at minimum 4-A due to the stars we see in the background when it turns to night.
Click to expand...
There's nothing indicating she created more than the buildings tho. Especially since what she says for the Astral Plane applies to that section as well.

Lilith obviously didn't create a dimension with new flow of Dragon Veins from a single Dragon Vein.

She just uses the Dragon Veins that exist there to make buildings and stuff, confirming that even the place My Castle is in existed prior to their arrival.

Overall you've shown that she indeed didn't create the Astral Plane, making the manga thingy guide unreliable for the game.
 
I've only provided scans that show the Astral Plane and My Castle are two separate things (in the sense that My Castle isn't the entirety of the Astral Plane), and proof that My Castle isn't just a simple castle-sized pocket reality. Nothing about Lilith not creating the Astral Plane.
 
Your argument litteraly has "she didn't create the Astral Plane" as a sentence but whatev.

Imo the dialogue clearly shows she didn't actually create stuff.

So as I said earlier, it might be for the best to ask the people who commented earlier to give their opinion on the new info, given how it changes stuff.
 
All Deeprealms, along with My Castle, are shown to have a surrounding "bubble" when you view them along the Astral Plane (when selecting a paralogue visiting a Deeprealms/Invasion Battles, you always see this) that separates each realm from the rest of the Astral Plane

Everything we see in each realm is part of them, not the entire Astral Plane. The time and space in each of them are explicitly separate from each other. If we can see stars in any realm, those stars are a part of them

My Castle, at bare minimum, is 4-A. Though, if we assume the land is only 6-A and Lilith somehow didn't create it, but rather the buildings (which weren't there until she demonstrated that buildings could be made to show Corrin) then Corrin being able to warp the entirety of said land could probably bring 6-A to the table
 
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JustSomeWeirdo said:
All Deeprealms, along with My Castle, are shown to have a surrounding "bubble" when you view them along the Astral Plane (when selecting a paralogue visiting a Deeprealms/Invasion Battles, you always see this) that separates each realm from the rest of the Astral Plane

Everything we see in each realm is part of them, not the entire Astral Plane. The time and space in each of them are explicitly separate from each other. If we can see stars in any realm, those stars are a part of them

My Castle, at bare minimum, is 4-A. Though, if we assume the land is only 6-A and Lilith somehow didn't create it, but rather the buildings (which weren't there until she demonstrated that buildings could be made to show Corrin) then Corrin being able to warp the entirety of said land could probably bring 6-A to the table
Click to expand...
Well, I'm more against them being able to create or control it at all since they clearly need to use Dragon Veins + everything points toward something done by the First Dragons, with how it's "blessed by the First Dragons" and even space-time shenanigans are the result of "the First Dragon who rules time and space".

Although tier 6 would make with the rest of the verse.

Also it might just be my memory being fuzzy, but I remember the Deeprealms just being portrayed as area on a shared land. Though they clearly are separate regardless given the children's age diff.
 
The first dragon ruling time and space is just referring to Moro, who is implied to be monitoring the entire Astral Plane and its infinite realms, and "being filled with the power of the first dragons" is referring to Dragon Vein existing throughout the Astral Plane and My Castle

Deeprealms are stated to be multiple, yes, most parents refer to them as "X's Deeprealm" rather than "The Deeprealm" when they visit. The children also mention them as "my Deeprealm" when speaking about it
 
JustSomeWeirdo said:
The first dragon ruling time and space is just referring to Moro, who is implied to be monitoring the entire Astral Plane and its infinite realms, and "being filled with the power of the first dragons" is referring to Dragon Vein existing throughout the Astral Plane and My Castle
Click to expand...
I don't see how it goes against my points though.
Lilith creating an entire Dragon Veins flow wouldn't make much sense in lore nor in story, and the implications clearly are against that.

Although the mere fact that the "parallel" statement meant to prove universal isn't here would still warrant having a second opinion on those who voted.
JustSomeWeirdo said:
Deeprealms are stated to be multiple, yes, most parents refer to them as "X's Deeprealm" rather than "The Deeprealm" when they visit. The children also mention them as "my Deeprealm" when speaking about it
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, I know they are multiples. I just asked regarding how they looked on the map.
 
QuasiYuri said:
Lilith creating an entire Dragon Veins flow wouldn't make much sense
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure this is referring to the Astral Plane as a whole, not just My Castle, which is demonstrated in Revelation's Endgame, by the way.

Also iirc there's something about Dragon Vein lingering in places where the First Dragons have used their powers, so a First Dragon (or rather First Dragon-adjacent, given Lilith's power directly comes from Moro) creating a realm where Dragon Vein is plentiful as a result makes sense
 
Given how she clearly can't create even random stuff without using a Dragon Vein, it wouldn't make sense that using the energy of one Dragon Vein = creating a realm with several unconnected Dragon Veins.
And Lilith obviously isn't on the level of a First Dragon.

However I wouldn't say no to a point being made for First Dragons, although it would most likely only scale to Anankos and children, given how Corrin and coe only fought his sealed self, and his unsealed form is clearly the one with the tier 3/2 feats (who also one shotted EoS Corrin).
Maybe more as a possibly, but still could be a thing.
 
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