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Final Fantasy XIII tier 1, explanations and other things

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This review will prove that FF definitely and absolutely owns Tier 1, but before starting I will post some excerpts from the mythos of the games for those unfamiliar to understand their concepts.

Note: English is not my native language but I tried my best to correct the mistakes

Fabula Nova Cristallis Legend

In the beginning there were two gods, Bhunivelze and his mother Mwynn, Bhunivelze killed his mother to be the ruler of the universe while his mother was sent to the invisible world, but even after defeating his mother, problems in the universe began to arise and he believed this was a curse imposed by his mother and to end this curse he should go to the invisible world where his mother would be waiting, but to do this he needs to find his entrance:

"There was once a god who ruled all in this world. That was called Bhunivelze.

Bhunivelze defeated the Mother Goddess, Mwynn, and gained control of this world. Mwynn disappeared to the realm invisible to the eye: The Unseen Realm.

Bhunivelze was a god with many troubles. Troubles rooted in the fact that the world was limited, and everything within it was fated to perish. I thought this was a curse from Mother Mwynn in the Unseen Realm.

In order to undo this curse of destruction, Bhunivelze thought he should defeat Mwynn. In order to go to the Unseen Realm where Mother lied in wait, I needed to search for the entrance. "

And to find his entrance, Bhunivelze created the first Fal'Cies (which I personally call fal'Cie gods since all the others were born of them and all the time they are called gods), the first was the Pulse god who was to "expand "the world and find its entrance there, the second was the goddess Etro, but in a vacillation of Bhunivelze the Etro was created with the image of its hated mother Mwynn, and due to similarity, Bhunivelze created Etro being weak and without powers of creation (can not create fal'Cie) the third and last was the goddess Lindzei who should protect Bhunivelze while he sleeps in his eternal crystalline sleep:

"Drawing out from his own will, Bhunivelze created fal'Cie. The first one to be made fal'Cie - Pulse. Pulse's mission was to excavate the land, in order to find the door to the Unseen Realm.

Next to be made fal'Cie - Etro. Bhunivelze had made a mistake; I had brought forth Etro in the image of Mwynn. Fearing her appearance, Bhunivelze did not grant Etro any powers.

In her place, I have made fal'Cie - Lindzei. Lindzei's mission was to protect Bhunivelze from various threats. Bhunivelze, ordering Lindzei to awaken him when the time came, became a crystal to sleep eternally "

To expand the world, Pulse created Fal'Cies and L'Cie, to protect the world, Lindzei created Fal'Cies and L'Cie, since Etro there was nothing to do if he felt lonely and useless so she got hurt and shed his blood and then disappeared into the invisible world, and from the blood of Etro Lindzei created humans:

"Pulse, in order to expand the world, made fal'Cie and l'Cie.

Lindzei, in order to protect the world, made faliCie and l'Cie.

As for Etro, however, there was nothing she could do. Lonely Etro thought of the one who looked just like her: Mother Mwynn. Etro injured herself, shedding her own blood, and vanished.

From the blood that Etro shed, was born humanity. Humans were born only to die. "

After Etro is injured, she is sent to the invisible world where she meets the goddess Mwynn, near her end, Mwynn orders Etro to maintain the balance of the worlds in order to protect the universe, and after that Mwynn dissipates in the chaotic destructive ocean known as Chaos:

"Etro arrived at the side of Mwynn as she was about to disappear. Mwynn told Etro to maintain the balance of the world as she was swallowed up by the chaos.

However, Etro was foolish and did not comprehend the meaning of Mwynn's words. " "Lonely Etro sympathized with humans whom the chaos would only swallow whole.

The humans were dying, she smiled and conferred chaos upon them.

Humans named the chaos that she gave them heart.

Heart was supposed to grant them power of their own, but humans were still unaware of that fact. "


Fal'Cie

Fal'Cie are powerful and divine beings created by the gods Pulse and Lindzei to find the gate of Etro with a mass murder of mankind through the destruction of Cocoon (an artificial planetoid), however Fal'Cies as well as their gods are directly connected creation that makes it impossible for them to destroy it, so they use humans as tools curses them with a brand and special powers to be able to fulfill the goal given by the Fal'Cie, these humans are known as L'Cie.

Fal'Cie are also described as beings beyond human understanding, but what would this human understanding be? To begin with humanity has a vast knowledge about space-time, studies on temporal paradoxes and technological development, capable of producing paradoxical weapons using pieces of time crystallized that are formed by singularities in the space-time being the paradoxes affect the space-time itself by making it blend and overlap causing the past and the future to clash. Humanity is also endowed with advanced machineries and mega-cities technologically developed, in just a few years they were able to make Gran Pulse a primitive planet on a super-developed and futuristic planet where its simpler equipments are able to destroy space-time vortexes 17:30 and manipulate space, anti-matter and gravity while heavier equipment such as biowaepons are capable of much greater capabilities such as for example the Atlas which is an artificial giant said to be created by humans but was still in the testing phase, and even in the testing phase it presents many skills as able to travel between timelines and manifest in the past, a simple manifestation your was mixing the realities, and this was just a manifestation your then is said that your truth body exists in another space-time.

Other things that mankind is able to do is to manipulate people's information to generate a duplicate, duplicate are artificial life forms created from information and data about the person in question and thus creating a three-dimensional physical manifestation of the person, basically one clone or artificial avatar, however it is not limited to only 3 dimensions because when using data about the commander Amodar they were able to create a 4-dimensional duplicata, as well as humans catalog the monsters, a simple random enemy in FFXIII-2 as the cat schrodinger and the mewmao is described a multidimensional life form (he drop a component called fractal pot, components are usually parts of the body of monsters like nails, feathers, shell, etc, these cats drop, part below your body which is a pot, and that pot is described as a multidimensional pot of power latent ), there are other normal monsters like Flangozola which is a just a flan but his chronomist is described as being energy of space-time itself.

As a great example of human capabilities is the proto fal'Cie Adam which is an artificial life form also created by humans in order to try as much as possible to create something that comes close of the Fal'Cie, but he is only an incomplete prototype because his research that should have lasted for centuries was interrupted and abandoned in the year 13 AF (13 years after FFXIII-1), and even being a simple prototype he is very formidable with abilities of manipulate time and change the past, manipulate reality, create a space-time which encompasses past and future, transmute people and even create duplicates, and even after all that I said the proto fal'Cie that appears in the game is just a copy of the original proto fal'Cie which in turn is just a prototype artificial created with memory modules of the Eden fal'Cie, and even after all I quoted the Fal'Cies are described as an existence beyond human understanding, they also contain many abilities. To start in FFXIII there is a fal'Cie named Eden that exists in a city also called Eden, in fact it is the city, however in the game datalogs the information says that the dimension known as Orphan's Cradle (final dungeon of the game) is the true body of Eden and this serves as a nest for the Orphan, this dimension is described to exist between reality and the dream possessing infinite functions where it exists many other dimensions cited as being Tesseracts, an hypercube from 4 dimensions.

In FF type 0 there is no clear quote in the game about the Fal'Cie but evidence proves the existence of the Fal'Cies in the game as for example the crystals are who give a Focus to the humans and the makes in l'cie besides the quote about the gods Pulse, Etro and Lindzei, and the game artifacts that mention these gods and Mwynn herself, the creator of the Fabula Universe, already in an interview with Hajime Tabata is confirmed that the crystals of orience and Doctor Arecia are Fal'Cies, being Arecia a Pulse's Fal'Cie, creator of the crystals and of Orience, while Gala one Lindzei's Fal'Cie, and Diva a neutral Fal'Cie who serves as an observer and narrator who watches the whole creation on the outside.

In Orience the world serves only as an experiment for the Fal'Cie to discover a way to open the gate of Etro, the Fal'Cie Gala that serves the Lindzei seeks to open the gate forcing its entrance with a flood of souls through an apocalyptic event known as Tempus finis (end of time) where a human must become the Judge I'Cie and bring the end to all Orience, while Arecia serving the Pulse seeks to open the gate making his cadets in Agito who is someone destined to save orience, which according to the prophetic book Nameless Tome, when the time of Tempus finis comes the chosen one will get the knowledge of the "transcendence" (said only in the Japanese version) and will touch the whole creation and break his seal and thus will pass through the gate of Etro.

The Nameless Tome 14: 7

"Only the chosen one may enter that land. The chosen will touch all creation, and obtain that which is truth. It is reason outside of reason-the reason for Agito. It is power-the authority of Agito. The sage proclaims: "In all things, there is meaning. In all things, mourning will end. Make your choice: will you choose reason, or the power of kings?

And unto him, I reply: I will become Agito. I will sound the knell to shake all the world. When nine and nine meet nine, the depths of reason shall stir. When the seal of creation is broken, a voice like thunder shall sound, And thou shalt know-we have arrived."

English version: https://youtu.be/kiHb3sQuBGI

Japanese version: https://youtu.be/7rOwjq5H2Os

As you can see in the verse, the chosen one will "touch all creation" and break his seal thus having power over it, and I do not think it is a fallacy or hyperbole since one of the places of the Pandemonium that is a temple erected by Gala in which the chosen (Agito), should go, there is a place called Hall All-Creation

It is also reported in that same interview of Hajime Tabata that Arecia is the creator of the World of Type 0 but the world of Type 0 is not limited to a single world but infinite universes all existing in an infinite cycle known as the spiral, the spiral marks until the arrival of the time of the Tempus finis, when the Tempus finis arrives and the world ends, Arecia restarts all the time and sends the world back in a new spiral and according to Arecia she has already repeated this process 600,104,972 times, it is also reported that Fal'Cie exist outside of the spiral, in other words they exist outside the multiversal space-time

These are some verses from Nameless Tome that explains a bit about this, although they are a little confusing for those unfamiliar with the game.

The Nameless Take 4: 4

"Within the whirling wheel, nestled in the infinite spiral, Lie two sacred thrones. In one sits the divine spirit aligned with Lindzei, In the other sits the divine spirit aligned with Pulse. One seeks to stain the soil with blood And thrust open the gates to the realm unseen, The other nurtures souls, Hoping they will open the gate on the spirit's behalf. Bound by their covenant, Despite an infinitesimal probability of success, The two continue to challenge the limits of possibility Over and over, cycle after cycle, Until they fade from this world"

This passage in the book explains that the servants of Pulse and Lindzei seek to open the gate with their own method, one doing this "by soiling the ground with blood" (killing everyone generating a powerful flow of souls that would make a large gate open ) and another does this by nurturing the souls (of the cadets) to make them become the Agito and open the gate with their hands, and cycle to post cycle they test new possibilities despite infinitely low chance of success, all this existing in the spiral infinite

The Nameless Tome: final verse

"The wheel whirls within the spiral, Its light growing ever radiant with every revolution. Yet when the small spiral collapses in upon itself, Its light fades, and as a wheel it starts whirling anew. Within the spiral emerged a single locus, so close yet invariably distant. In the flash of an eternity, one became ten and six, then ten and two, And the wheel began whirling once more. The first revealed the power of acceptance, The second, the power of kindness, The third, the power of knowledge, The fourth, the power of value, The fifth, the power of innocence, The sixth, the power of tenacity, The seventh, the power of discernment, The eighth, the power of tranquility, The ninth, the power of action, The tenth, the power of ignorance, The eleventh, the power of wisdom, And the twelfth, the power of judgment. Cast away were the loci of fear, love, suffering, and age. Their souls elevated through the endless cycle of transmigration, Those who ascend these loci were chosen by the divine spirits: One wishing to open the gate with its own hand, One wishing to open the gate using the hand of another. The elevated souls shine more radiantly as the wheel continues whirling, But fragments break off from each locus with every revolution. When these shards are ten and two, the souls shall break forth from the wheel, Involuntarily moving toward the end, And the grand spiral shall collapse, sinking back to the percipient depths. Only then shall a new wheel begin to whirl. Yet at the edge of infinity, time overflowing is born of the spiral. Though the gate remains closed, Two loci who fell from the ten and two are granted human will of the divine. And the fallen shards rejoin the wheel in its revolution, Each one bearing the smile of Etro. One of the divine spirits accepts their return, Releases the loci and sets out on a new journey. The remaining radiance forges the wheel of creation and sets it whirling anew. Is this wheel one of joy, or one of despair? Or perhaps ..."

This passage is difficult to understand even for those who are familiar with the game, basically in some cycle of time was born the One, that One people think that it would be a person but in fact it is more like something abstract, this One became Ten and Six (16) that according to Tabata ten and six would not be persons but elements or concepts that people contain within themselves that Arecia deems necessary for the Agito, and according to the historical personae of Type 0, the cadets are the personification of the destiny itself in itself that during generations class 0 appears in Orience, and Arecia is able to bring them back to life always when they die.

And these 16 elements were given a form and will of their own by Arecia (for to conclude the Agito, free will is necessary) however 4 elements were discarded and thus Ten and Six became Ten and Two and that ten and two would be the 12 class cadets zero, that is why each class of the zero class has an element/concept within itself, and at each cycle of time a new element is derived from "original One" that may or may not be necessary for the Agito.


Very well after all I said I think I would consider the Fal'Cies as 5D (transcends the knowledge of humans who are able to create 4D life form, random enemies in FFXIII-2 are described as a multidimensional life form, Arecia exists outside of space-time and is able to reset time of universe/multiverse casually, etc. And it would not be crazy to consider them at that level since the gods have much greater capacity than the Fal'Cies.

Note: this would also affect the level of L'Cie at the end of FFXIII, but ONLY at the end of the game, from the beginning it is said that only Ragnarok can kill a fal'Cie but they were defeated by humans, but is reported in FFXIII-2 that during the last fight against the Orphan and barthandellus the goddess Etro interfered in fate and blessed the l'Cie with their powers, then it is likely that she has temporarily granted powers to party defeat the Fal'Cies. There are also l'Cie in Type 0 but since it does not have Type 0 in Wikia I will not go into them.

Now that I have explained the ability of fal'Cies I will list your skills:

Manipulation of reality: Arecia created orience and manipulates the world as it wants, in addition to the proto Fal'Cie being able to manipulate reality. http://imgur.com/a/45uRQvI

dimensional manipulation: Eden created the Orphan's Cradle, a dimension with infinite functions and tesseracts

Manipulation of data and matter: Eden has transformed her body's date into physical matter. http://imgur.com/a/4wJIAW4

space-time manipulation and information: the relics created by Suzaku crystal (Orience) is able to manipulate space, time, and informatio, in addition to Arecia being able to reset time, and the fact that the proto Fal'Cie is able to manipulate and create a space-time. http://imgur.com/a/45uRQvI

Note: The reason for not showing the Fal'Cie manipulating the time in FFXIII is because they forbidden to manipulate the time, and those who manipulate it are banned for the void

Possibly conceptual manipulation: if we consider that class 0 are concepts in themselves then Arecia would be able to manipulate them and give them a physical form, although I personally do not be so sure about this

Life and death manipulation: In Type 0 it's not just game mechanics, the characters actually die and it's up to Arecia to resurrect them

Mind Manipulation: In FFXIII barthandellus was able to manipulate the mind of people, and in type 0 the crystals are able to erase the existence of the dead people's memory. http://imgur.com/a/WDyh5vQ


Technology Manipulation: During the rule in Cocoon the Barthandellus Fal'Cies were able to create robotic monsters and other technologies, and in type 0 to byako I'Cie Qun'mi was able to manipulate technology and machines. http://imgur.com/a/iNOFihC

Manipulation of casuality: Fal'Cie of orience manipulated the events of the game André the crystals having created the Tome of Akasha/Akashic records that according to Arecia, everything that class zero did or would do was already written in the book, but the last page was blank because the cadets needed free will for Agito.

Acasuality: the Fal'Cie of orience are not affected by the spiral as well as exist outside of it

Nullification of physical attacks, magical attacks and actions: some l'éc├¿ in FFXIII possess this ability, and l'cie are created by Fal'Cies

Regenerationn and healing cancellation: Rursus army/Lulusath Warriors created by the Fal'Cie Gala were able to destroy one's own phantoma, thus preventing it from healing and regenerating. http://imgur.com/a/ao5H0WL


And frankly I do not know how to classify this ability, both the Rursus/Lulusath and arbitre l'cie created by Gala were able to destroy phantoma, phantoma is described to be the very essence, essence of the person, essence of the soul, essence of a black hole , white hole, the sun, the void, will, and so on. http://imgur.com/a/inYltMC

http://imgur.com/a/tVhYmKg

Fabula universe

As you can see in the myths the universe of fable is divided into two halves, the visible realm the material world and the invisible realm the world of the "dead", while the visible world described to be a multiverse with infinite universes and [imgur.com/f8WQRMo endless possible] and impossible timelines also contains extradimensional spacetime.

Already the invisible world exists beyond the dimensional structure, the place where valhalla exists and is described to exist beyond all the concepts of space and time, form, life and death, and the only way to get there is through the Etro gate. The capital of the invisible world is valhalla, created by the goddess Etro to according to the legends "imprison a forgotten enemy" at all times in FFXIII-2 valhalla is quoted to exist beyond space and time where it is possible to see all the history and timelines, and most of this information is in the game's datalogs that you get through the fragments it collects, and that many people do not read .....

Azure Crystal

"In the heart of Valhalla stands Etro's temple. The throne that sits within, the throne of the goddess, is always empty.

No one can say how long the goddess's temple has stood in this place. In a world where time does not exist, such a question has little meaning. Some speculate, however, that the goddess built the temple with her own hands, as a prison for some long-forgotten enemy."

http://imgur.com/a/jbXx92N

Amber Crystal

"Valhalla, where the temple of the goddess stands, floats on the vast ocean of chaos into which all things must flow. There is no beginning or end to chaos. Those that fall into its waters are condemned to float for eternity in the rift between life and death.

The ocean of chaos has drowned the Pedestal of Time. There, on that holy of holies, did the goddess Etro first step into the Unseen Realm. But as her power waned, the sacred spot where her foot touched soil sank beneath the sullen waves."

http://imgur.com/a/LsY2YC2

Lindzei's desire

"The part we humans call 'soul' is a gift of the goddess. In all our hearts flickers a small piece of the chaos of Valhalla.

From Valhalla, you can see every age, every timeline. I see the future because Valhalla lives in my heart. The Eyes of Etro is not a unique gift, reserved for the special. Every human who claims a soul can gaze into the future."

http://imgur.com/tpr7WSC

Already in the guide FFXIII-2 ultimania Omega is confirmed the invisible world and valhalla exist beyond the concepts of space-time, I say this not only physically but conceptually:

IMG 20180707 131714
õ©ûþòîÕÉîÕú½Òü«ÒüñÒü¬ÒüîÒéè

" Connection between worlds. "


Code:
õ©ìÕŻުûõ©ûþòî
µÖéÚûôÒÇüþ®║ÚûôÒÇüÕ¢óþèÂÒü«µªéÕ┐ÁÒüîÒüÖÒü╣ÒüªÒü¬ÒüäÒÇéÕ«îÕà¿Òü¬µÀÀµ▓î

" Invisible World

There is not any concept of time, space, and form. Perfect chaos. "

  • Note that in this part is used the character ÒüÖ Òü╣ Òüª (subete) which means "all", indicating that the place is beyond all concepts of space and time.
Òâ┤ÒéíÒâ½ÒâÅÒâ®

µÖéÚûôÒü«µªéÕ┐ÁÒüîÒü¬ÒüÅÒÇüþ®║ÚûôÒü«µªéÕ┐ÁÒééµøûµÿºÒüáÒüîÒÇüÕ¢óþèÂÒü»ÒüéÒéïÒÇé

" Valhalla

There is no concept of time, the concept of space is ambiguous, but there is form. "

Òé▓Òâ╝Òâê

µÖéþ®║Òü«þï¡ÚûôµÖéÚûôÒü«µªéÕ┐ÁÒü»ÒéäÒéäµøûµÿºÒüáÒüîþ®║ÚûôÒÇüÕ¢óþèÂÒü»ÕŻުûõ©ûþòîÒü¿ÕÉÿ

" Gate (Etro's Gate)

The concept of space-time in this space is ambiguous, but the form in that space is the same as the visible world. "

ÕŻުûõ©ûþòî

µÖéÚûôþ®║ÚûôÒÇüÕ¢óþèÂÒü«µªéÕ┐ÁÒüîÒüéÒéï

" Visible World

There is concepts of time-space and form. '

And in the light novel of FFXIII-2 called Final Fantasy XIII-2 fragments after, it is also confirmed that valhalla is devoid of the general concepts of space and time during a Lightning thought after she is summoned to valhalla:

Page 41-42 "Looking back on each one of the things that happened, she came up with a common word: Time.

She had walked at the shore without even the slightest hint of fatigue no matter how long she walked. She had also felt a disturbance in her physical perception of time. And, the memories of the future, failure of the general notion of "time" brought all of this into existence.

From where did the moogle say I came to Valhalla? It was the "Void Beyond." Does that mean the place between the realm that possesses the general concept of time, the "Other Side" and the place that lacks a general concept of time, Valhalla?

Makes sense, I guess.

After she whispered she realized how comical it was. This place goes against all convention, so what would you try to make sense of anything accomplish?

No, she had to do something like this to keep her wits about her and not become afraid. The fact that she had already lost her wits was a lot simpler and explicable interpretation than going on about general notions of time."

In short, the Visible World is where there are general concepts of space and time, in addition to the visible world there is the void and beyond the void this valhalla, so much so that the inhabitants of valhalla use shadows to manifest in Visible World.

The invisible world is also quoted transcende the void which is literally nothingness, non-existence, void itself being quoted as being just a simple shadow of valhalla, inside the void also holds many other places like the Colisseum and Seredinipy and both are cited being devoid of time and the Colisseum is also a place that connects all ages and realities, and Lightning still says that Noel had crossed all void to reach Valhalla: http://imgur.com/AnCKu7V

And when Lightning arrives at Valhalla and meets the throne of the goddess she makes a high-dimensional allusion to the nature of the goddess, including the very throne she was seeing might not even be a throne and had another form, but her mind of a mere human was not able to understand:

Page 51 "She left the moogle where she was and headed toward the empty throne." "The Goddess is here, even though she can not be seen. she recognizes as a throne could possess another form. Because, not only one's perception of time but his/her five senses are inaccurate and unreliable.

Even so. the Goddess is here ..."

In the game the Moogle themselves do not exist in the real world, they are only fictitious beings, but their existence in valhalla is possible because according to Lightning this type of thing is only possible because valhalla is an impossible place where impossibility happen all the time:

Page 28-29

"Was it not my home world? Were Moogles known as fictional beings due to the fact that the world which we inhabited was also considered by them to be part of their territory. But, why did she encounter such a thing? It was not as if she was just her staring, she could see her too. Moreover, she spoke to her ... her future self spoke to her."

Page 41-42

"Impossible ...

Of course, this would be impossible when thinking conventionally. But what if this place was "that kind of place"? What had she experienced after her awakening at the beach? She met a moogle, which had been a fictional creature up until now. She had talked to Odin, who she thought could not speak. It's hard to say that those events were common. Moreover, she had shared memories and thoughts by fighting. She had experienced many impossibilities.

Maybe this was a place in which impossible things to occur all the time. Maybe that was what Valhalla was. "Sounds about right," thought Lightning. However, she was still caught on something. Between the world in which she lived, dubbed the "Other Side" by the Eidolons, and here, Valhalla, what was different?"

Chaos Invisible world also has its totality composed by a catastrophic ocean known as Chaos, often referring to the chaos formless since it is said that everything that is swallowed by the Chaos is completely destroyed is loses its form (in FFXIII-2 ultimania Omega it is also said that in Chaos there is no concept of form and space-time: µÖéÚûô, þ®║Úûô, Õ¢óþè Òü« µªéÕ┐Á Òüî ÒüÖ Òü╣ Òüª Òü¬ Òüä. Õ«îÕà¿ Òü¬ Òüä And those who are swallowed up by their waters spend eternity wandering in the gap between life and death. The goddess Etro uses chaos to control the flow of souls and keep the worlds in balance by maintaining a constant amount of chaos in the visible world. It is also said that the part that humans call the "heart" is a goddess gift being in the truth a piece of Chaos that the goddess puts inside their souls, and thus the humans can acquire many magical abilities, however to use all the totality of the powers of the chaos is necessary to cross the gate of Etro and reach the invisible world, the source of all chaos, but only those with enough chaos in their heart can cross the gate or use time gates, already in type 0 it is said that to cross the gate the individual must literally obtain the transcendence.

Those who control the totality of the chaos demonstrate many skills as they distort reality: https://imgur.com/EcOoxWT

Distort the timeline and erase the past: https://imgur.com/ODahK5o

Undo the laws of physics and erase all existence: https://imgur.com/QEtwiPL

Give BFR to nothing: https://imgur.com/a/YwgVmt5

Travel in time and out of it: https://imgur.com/7XMc49W

Devouring reality: https://imgur.com/1lhyUKV

Although there are few characters who can control all the chaos, they are Etro and by logic Mwynn and possibly Lightning if we consider that she inherited the powers of Etro but I do not I'm so sure of that, and Caius on arriving in Valhalla would kill the goddess, would use Chaos to destroy the endless timelines and return everything to valhalla in order to make the world a place without time, and a place without time is the only place that Yeul can live without dying: http://imgur.com/a/e8X2hrV

Eidolons Eidolons are the summons of the games, described in FF type 0 being beings of other plane of existence, being this plane Valhalla, Lightning during FFXIII-2 fragments after arriving at Valhalla discovers that there were many Eidolons "living" there (in fact they spend all their time fighting each other) and also learn that when an L'Cie despair or conjures an Eidolon, the goddess opens the gate and sends the Eidolon to the " other side ", although they do not have the same force as the original Eidolon in valhalla, since beings of the Invisible World use avatars to manifest in the visible world and often these manifestations are called shadows, and with the eidolons it is the same thing, and these manifestations varies in level, type 0 bahamuth is said to have a destructive power higher than any war machine ever created, so it would be superior to Brionac which is a machine that owns 8 Ultima bombs and that a single Ultima bomb has the power to destroy an entre continent. Already in FFXIII-2 a manifestation of Odin known as Twilight Odin is described to be only a shadow of the original Odin formed with the chaos itself, and that shadow exists at all time periods simultaneously and at the same time exists beyond time. http://imgur.com/a/02eQYTG

(it is said "outside" in the English translation but in the Japanese original it is said "beyond")

And after that my whole explanation would be to classify the invisible world and valhalla as 1-A because the requirements for that tier on this Wikia is or transcend infinite dimensions or the concepts of space-time so much that the characters of Warhammer 40,000 are 1-A by these reasons, and those places transcends all cocepts of space-time and the void, being the void is the nothing is a power capable of control the whole creation, destroy and surpass all dimensions, so much so that when Lightning becomes a knight of Etro in valhalla she uses shadows to manifest in the Visible world, so it would be possible to classify some characters for 1-A and separate in keys dividing their versions of the visible and invisible world, and I can help with some basis for the profiles.


Serah and Noel Tier: low 2-C (simple enemies are listed as multidimensional lifestyles, defeated Proto fal'Cie who was able to create 4D duplicates and create a space-time, defeated the original Amodar and an avatar of Lightning in the Coliseum ) | possible high 2-A (defeated Twilight Odin transcending space-time and exists all the time simultaneously) | 1-A They are servants of the goddess and used her powers in valhalla their powers of the Chaos manifest in their maximum since it is their place of origin, defeated Caius in valhalla and during the final battle defeated Caius after merging with Chaos and becoming the 3 Bahamuth, and also diving into the Chaos ocean without consequences (5:00 pm)

Abilities: Chaos and soul manipulation: Serah is able to tame game monsters by controlling their inner chaos, which is located in their souls: http://imgur.com/a/XzLwx1d

Information manipulation: the pound spell is able to analyze information about enemies, their strengths and weaknesses, their immunities, abilities, life, etc, and this is not just game mechanics because in the novel Lightning uses this ability.

"She will learn that she can use magic just like when she was a I'Cie and that fighting in Valhalla also means gaining information. That will not be necessary," replied Odin's voice. around the shrine are all my subordinates. It seemed that they obeyed Odin, they would obey Lightning as well"

I know about Valhalla and Etro. I just want to know how to return home. To the world in which my family and friends are waiting.

Odin nodded showing that he understood already. It was true. Just as Lightning had gained information from Odin, Odin had taken Lightning's memories and thoughts "

Resistance to conceptual destruction: everything that touches the chaos loses its concept of form, and they plunged into the Chaos and left unharmed)

Possible Probability Manipulation? The paradox scope is said to bend the laws of the universe and render the impossible impossible http://imgur.com/a/q4kUTID

Acasuality: even in the visible world they are not affected by paradoxes of time, since their versions of the invisible world transcend the concepts of time and space.


Caius Tier: low 2-C possibly high 2-A (fought against Serah and Noel) | 1-A (upon arriving in the invisible world all chaos was under his control, would destroy valhalla and kill the goddess, merged into the chaos and became the 3 bahamuth ( 16: 10 )


Abilities: Same as Chaos I already listed.

Creation of space-time: during the beginning of the ep 5 Caius kill Noel but later on reveals that Noel had been sent to a space-time to where his desires had become real: http://imgur.com/a/LjLLOFY

And so does Serah, Caius kills her and then she wakes up in an alternate version of the world of FFXIII-2: (32:10) https://youtu.be/4B7C6-8TsdU

Possible negation of immortality and Regenerationn: those swallowed by chaos are trapped in the gap between life and death

Possible non-corporeal: He merged with the " Chaos formless "

Manipulation of dreams and reality: the "false temple of the goddess" that exists in Void beyond is said to be a place where dreams come true: http://imgur.com/a/c6h2AoI

In FFXIII-2 fragments after, Caius invades Alissa's dream and an artifact for her, when Alissa wakes up she is holding this artifact: Pag 168-169 "With that, Caius had thrown me an artefact. I understood. What his words had meant. He meant for me to give this to Serah and company. As far as I knew, only those two needed these artefacts. This was probably a fake artefact. If they used this to enter the gate, then there was no doubt that 'the door' would 'close'.

They will disappear, and I will remain. I will survive. Live on. Even if what lay beyond was a false history and a twisted future.

Before I realized, Caius had disappeared. Had this just been a convenient dream, after all? I discovered that it hadn't just been some dream after I had awoken. In my hand was an artefact identical to the one I had seen in my dream."


Eidolons Tier: 6-A (superior to a Ultima bomb) | low 2-C possible high 2-A (his shades transcend time and are able to fight against Serah and the Fal'Cie as the Orphan) | 1-A (they are original valhalla beings, able to manipulate the chaos, protect the goddess from threats and fight Caius)

Abilities: Conceptual manipulation: Lightning struggled with a "fake" Odin, and the real Odin wanted to talk to Lightning though the fake Odin read minds, so in order not to be discovered the Odin inflicted the very concept on Lightning

Page 34 "To put it more distinctly, it was as if the concept itself was being imprinted in its brain without using words.

Thus, she understood abruptly. She realized in an instant: this Odin is not the Odin that she knew. "

Chaos manipulation: Twilight Odin is said to be composed of Chaos

Conceptual manipulation (destruction): It is said that everything that touches the chaos loses its concept of form.

Etro Tier 1-A (ruler of the invisible world, created valhalla, the eidolons, and controls all Chaos)

Abilities: the same as the fal'Cie, eidolons since she created them, Serah and Caius (for it is said that the powers they possessed were a power originating from the goddess)

Probability manipulation: it is said that in valhalla impossibilities happen all the time.


Pulse and Lindzei Tier: one does not have much information about these gods only that they created the world, the humans and the Fal'Cies, besides every moment in the games they are placed like having levels above Etro, and according to the myths between the 3 gods created by Bhunivelze, Etro is considered to be the weakest and powerless then would give them to scale them to at least high 2-A (they created the Fal'Cie) | possibly 1-A (among the 3 gods Bhunivelze created, Etro is considered the weakest)

Abilities: Same as Fal'Cie


Mwyn Tier: 1-A (the original Creator, created the fabula universe and everything)

Abilities: almost all listed, since she is the creator of everything.


Bhunivelze Tier: 1-A (defeated Mwynn, created the gods Pulse, Lindzei and Etro. It is also said that the eternal dream world of crystals exists one with the invisible world, and the brighter crystal of this world is called Bhunivelze http://imgur.com/a/3ZYcRJj)

Abilities: same as fal'Cies, eidolons and gods fal'Cie.


Lightning Tier: Possibly 6-A (scaled with the L'Cie de orience that withstood the impact of a Ultima bomb, and theoretically the ICE of FFXIII is to be higher because they were marked by Pulse itself) high 2-A the blessing of Etro was able to defeat the Fal'Cie) | 1-A (became a knight of Etro and protector of valhalla, able to fight against Caius and possibly inherited the powers of Etro) | 1-A (defeated Bhunivelze)

Abilities: The same as Serah, Noel says that the skill Serah used he saw Lightning doing the same

Possibly the skills chaos grants

Possibly conceptual manipulation, probability and chance, climbing with the Fal'Cie and others

Telepathy: was able to read the mind of Odin in Fragments After

Pag 36 "So we can clearly see what's in the other's head. Not sure if that's beneficial or detrimental."

She narrowly dodged Odin's counterattack by a paper-thin margin and gave a wry smile. She thought that it was good that there were no other people here. She could sort of handle understanding the thoughts of an Eidolon, but she thought that it'd be uncomfortable if she fought another human because they would completely understand each other. She had thought this far, and then suddenly realized:"
 
So

The invisible world is an 1-A realm. Mwynn, Bhunivelze, Etro, Lindzei and Pulse all seem to qualify for a 1-A rating. End of LR Lightning scales for defeating Bhunivelze and "becoming the goddess of Death", reaching a similar level to the gods

Not sure about Valhalla, as while time doesn't exists, the concept of space does, but in an ambiguous form. Not sure what tier would that be, but afaik it should at least be high 2-A.

I'm not sure about the classic FF void being the same as the one in FFXIII, but Exdeath's "surpass all dimension" I think refers to universes, making it 2-A due to them being infinite. While the FFXIII one seems to be 1-A.

Not 100% sure about Serah, Noel and Caius directly scaling to 1-A, but I tend towards agreeing.

Considering the whole setting, the low 2-C based on fodder enemies seems to make sense. High 2-A seems fine too.

The powers seem fine, but that is information analysis, not manipulation. The thing about Phantoma seems both soul, life and essence manipulation and destruction.

Btw in the fabula universe section you put the same link twice for two different things, and one link is wrongly formatted, while the link that says "simple shadow of Valhalla" shortly after the japanese scan doesn't work.

I'll contact a translator to check the translations
 
valhalla is only a city in the Invisible World, it stays in the Invisible World so it would not have reason to consider it a lower level to the invisible world since they inhabit the same plane, at the most this would indicate conceptual and space manipulation for Etro.

Serah and Noel 1-A because they have Chaos within themselves and when they are in the invisible World the source of all chaos he can use the entirety of his inner chaos, besides they are unaffected after falling into the chaos sea and yet to defeat Caius.

I did not understand what you meant by repeated scan on void, send me the link so I can take a look, refere the this ? http://imgur.com/a/UZ4PmCw

about information analyze I agree with you.

the void is actually the void of the franchise since many void travelers from the FF franchise appear on the Colisseum as Omega and Gilgamesh, and Gilgamesh is quoted in the Ultimania omega guide to be the same that appears in other games like FFVI, FFIX etc.

FFgilgameshwaepons
 
Thing is, it explicitly says that Valhalla has a concept of space and "there is form", so that excludes it from being an 1-A realm

But 1-A from using the full extent of chaos seems to make sense

If the void being the same is accepted this would scale to other FF characters such as Exdeath, but I'm neutral about this.
 
Zer00Negativo said:
Fabula universe As you can see in the myths the universe of fable is divided into two halves, the visible realm the material world and the invisible realm the world of the "dead", while the visible world described to be a multiverse with infinite universes and [imgur.com/f8WQRMo endless possible] and impossible timelines also contains extradimensional spacetime.
"Endless possible" is formatted properly but doesn't work properly (It's a wikia error, it happened to me too), "Timelines" and "Extradimensional Spacetime" have the same scan linked, "Simple Shadow of Valhalla" gives an error on imgur
 
The real cal howard said:
While I'm completely unknowledgeable on FFXIII and can't contribute to the thread at all, I wanted to say that I completely respect the work you did for this and the amount of time spent on the OP alone.
I second this
 
does not say that there is concept of space, says that it is ambiguous so it may or may not possess, but valhalla did not alter the level of the characters because their feats are based on other things like Chaos and Caius that would kill the goddess.
 
"Endless possible" is formatted properly but doesn't work properly (It's a wikia error, it happened to me too), "Timelines" and "Extradimensional Spacetime" have the same scan linked, "Simple Shadow of Valhalla" gives an error on imgur

Ok I'll post directly then
 
"If the void being the same is accepted this would scale to other FF characters such as Exdeath, but I'm neutral about this"

relax, I intend to do a review on void including its entities
 
"There is no concept of time, the concept of space is ambiguous, but there is form."

There being form implies that there are spatial dimension, as there wouldn't be any form if it lacked the concept of space.

But yeah it doesn't affect their tier if they can use the full power of chaos in it, which is 1-A
 
Zer00Negativo said:
"If the void being the same is accepted this would scale to other FF characters such as Exdeath, but I'm neutral about this"

relax, I intend to do a review on void including its entities
Okay
 
RKGenki said:
Okay, so the Void, while not scaling directly to Valhalla itself, seems at least High 2-A
in fact it is said that not even the mighty fal'Cie are able to access the void, if we consider the fal'Cie as 5D then the void would be at least low 1-C but as I said earlier I plan to revise the void in the future.
 
I see. I'm not knowledgeable on the other FF where the void appears as a main plot point (I only completed VII and Crisis Core, XIII saga, XV, Type-0 and Dissidia Duodecim), so I can't help much about the void
 
I do not remotely have the time to read this. Sorry.
 
I have little to no knowledge on Final Fantasy outside the first 7 games, but Matthew Schroeder and Reppuzan would probably be the best people to ask here iirc.
 
Infinite possibilities =/= Infinite timelines in this context.

Valhalla is beyond time and apace. Outside of everything, it cant change, so everything in there is a possibility, but nothing changes and therefore everything stays the same.

In this context it means "Yeah, anything and everything can happen, but it wont".
 
To support 1-A anything I need a scan stating the existence of infinite dimensional space. Anywhere.

Otherwise, The Void is simply a void, spaceless and timeless. Refer to the Dark Area for something similar or the Warhammer thingy.

And Im not sure if the existence of extra-dimensional space is enough since "dimension" is a common word in fiction mostly used referring to space-time (aka, a world outside of space time, which is, again, not enough for 1-A).
 
It is probably best to ask Azathoth to comment here. I agree that transcending the time and space of a single or several universal continuums is usually not considered as anywhere near enough proof for a 1-A rating.
 
Also, Im not sold at all on 1-A Noel and Serah since they are explicitly bound to normal causality (temporal paradoxes are a heavy plot point in XIII-2).
 
1-A for them would only be while they're in Valhalla, where they can use the full power of chaos. Basically 3-D beings with 1-A powers, like Molecule man iirc
 
RKGenki said:
1-A for them would only be while they're in Valhalla, where they can use the full power of chaos. Basically 3-D beings with 1-A powers, like Molecule man iirc
1-A power source =/= 1-A power.
 
It's not only the power source that they use, it's chaos itself in its full form. Outside of Valhalla is a 1-A power source which gives non 1-A powers. In Valhalla they can use the full extent of it
 
RKGenki said:
It's not only the power source that they use, it's chaos itself in its full form. Outside of Valhalla is a 1-A power source which gives non 1-A powers. In Valhalla they can use the full extent of it
This feels wrong for the next reason:

Caius is in full use of the chaos since the first time they met. He is wielding the Etro's Heart and supported by the Unseen Chaos (aka that little girl who doesnt know when to give up). Arguing 1-A Caius outside Valhalla is pretty legit. However, he is beaten by Serah and Noel... Thrice iirc.
 
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" Connection between worlds. "


Code:
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" Invisible World

There is not any concept of time, space, and form. Perfect chaos. "

  • Note that in this part is used the character ÒüÖ Òü╣ Òüª (subete) which means "all", indicating that the place is beyond all concepts of space and time.
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" Valhalla

There is no concept of time, the concept of space is ambiguous, but there is form. "

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" Gate (Etro's Gate)

The concept of space-time in this space is ambiguous, but the form in that space is the same as the visible world. "

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" Visible World

There is concepts of time-space and form. '
 
Casban2000 said:
This feels wrong for the next reason:

Caius is in full use of the chaos since the first time they met. He is wielding the Etro's Heart and supported by the Unseen Chaos (aka that little girl who doesnt know when to give up). Arguing 1-A Caius outside Valhalla is pretty legit. However, he is beaten by Serah and Noel... Thrice iirc.
Well as I said my knowledge on FFXIII is rusty, so I didn't remember about that. And calling outlier something that happens multiple times feels definitely wrong
 
I could only support 1-A lightning (if it was legit) for her Lightning Returns self, when she is compared to Etro and beats Bhunivelze.

For the rest, no, I cant say they are in full control of the Chaos since not even Yeul completly controls it (and she is the Chaos). Not even Caius can dominate the Chaos.
 
õ©ûþòîÕÉîÕú½Òü«ÒüñÒü¬ÒüîÒéè

" Connection between worlds. "


Code:
õ©ìÕŻުûõ©ûþòî
µÖéÚûôÒÇüþ®║ÚûôÒÇüÕ¢óþèÂÒü«µªéÕ┐ÁÒüîÒüÖÒü╣ÒüªÒü¬ÒüäÒÇéÕ«îÕà¿Òü¬µÀÀµ▓î

" Invisible World

There is not any concept of time, space, and form. Perfect chaos. "

  • Note that in this part is used the character ÒüÖ Òü╣ Òüª (subete) which means "all", indicating that the place is beyond all concepts of space and time.
Òâ┤ÒéíÒâ½ÒâÅÒâ®

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" Valhalla

There is no concept of time, the concept of space is ambiguous, but there is form. "

Òé▓Òâ╝Òâê

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" Gate (Etro's Gate)

The concept of space-time in this space is ambiguous, but the form in that space is the same as the visible world. "

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µÖéÚûôþ®║ÚûôÒÇüÕ¢óþèÂÒü«µªéÕ┐ÁÒüîÒüéÒéï

" Visible World

There is concepts of time-space and form. '

It looks okay.
 
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