Final Fantasy X is canon to Kingdom Hearts II

[XXKINGXX69]

There are two FFVII, the classic and the remake, the classic takes place in the X universe and the Remake in a different universe (or vice versa) because its own events contradict the classic.

Dimension 7 refers to the original

 

[HST_Master]

Where?

Stranger of Paradise is the only time it's contradicted, any other time the connection is brought up it's consistent

There are two FFVII, the classic and the remake, the classic takes place in the X universe and the Remake in a different universe (or vice versa) because its own events contradict the classic.

Shinra from X-2 is still one of the founding members of Shinra even in the remake he's seen in one of the companies 1st photos

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Stranger of Paradise is the only time it's contradicted, any other time the connection is brought up it's consistent


Shinra from X-2 is still one of the founding members of Shinra even in the remake he's seen in one of the companies 1st photos

When has it ever been consistent? And stranger of paradise contradicting it is still a contradiction

 

[HST_Master]

When has it ever been consistent? And stranger of paradise contradicting it is still a contradiction

Both Nojima in an interview and both of the X-2 Ultimania and VII Ultimania Omega have stated X and VII exist in the same universe but different time periods and planets, alongside even Kitase confirming in an interview that they are connected. Simply saying "but Stranger of Paradise is a contradiction" doesn't mean we throw away all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary especially when it's not even that old to say they decided to shelve it like with Shinra's picture in VII Remake.

 

[Bobsican]

Hmmm, fine, however, is the act of merging the Auron profiles out of being the same character fine then after all?

Uh... @SamanPatou ?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Both Nojima in an interview and both of the X-2 Ultimania and VII Ultimania Omega have stated X and VII exist in the same universe but different time periods and planets, alongside even Kitase confirming in an interview that they are connected. Simply saying "but Stranger of Paradise is a contradiction" doesn't mean we throw away all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary especially when it's not even that old to say they decided to shelve it like with Shinra's picture in VII Remake.

1 piece of evidence from the games themselves is more valid than any amount of author statement

The shinra's picture would just be a different universe than the shinra from X-2

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Uh... @SamanPatou ?

Ask Antvasima to comment

 

[TartaChocholate]

Still haven't played Stranger of Paradise, so quick question: taking a quick look at the Fool's Missives it wasn't mentioned in the letters themselves, but is it mentioned anywhere that the dimensions mentioned are actually different universes or is it just assumed? We can't really forget how ambiguous (and problematic) the word "dimension" can be because its exact extent can be tricky. And the way the letters are written could be taken that different settings are being addressed, true, and are designated as different worlds by calling them dimensions.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Still haven't played Stranger of Paradise, so quick question: taking a quick look at the Fool's Missives it wasn't mentioned in the letters themselves, but is it mentioned anywhere that the dimensions mentioned are actually different universes or is it just assumed? We can't really forget how ambiguous (and problematic) the word "dimension" can be because its exact extent can be tricky. And the way the letters are written could be taken that different settings are being addressed, true, and are designated as different worlds by calling them dimensions.

Why would they not be different dimensions?

 

[TartaChocholate]

My bad, I expressed myself wrong, they are dimensions, yes, my question is if it is openly stated that each dimension is a different universe or we just assume so.

What I mean, if there's no outright confirmation other factors could also be considered to separate the different settings as different dimensions, such as different time periods. Which is something to factor in with the X to VII connection, FFVII is several years after the story of X, so visiting game era Spira and the Mako-Civilization Planet of VII would mean jumping between the past and the future for the same person visiting them.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

My bad, I expressed myself wrong, they are dimensions, yes, my question is if it is openly stated that each dimension is a different universe or we just assume so.

What I mean, if there's no outright confirmation other factors could also be considered to separate the different settings as different dimensions, such as different time periods. Which is something to factor in with the X to VII connection, FFVII is several years after the story of X, so visiting game era Spira and the Mako-Civilization Planet of VII would mean jumping between the past and the future for the same person visiting them.

There's no confirmation that the different dimensions are just different time periods, its better to say the different dimensions are different dimensions, no need for wild assumptions

 

[Bobsican]

Well, a "different dimension" can also mean a "different metric" (in this case time), so two separate planets being called "dimensions" in this context isn't too questionable.

 

[HST_Master]

1 piece of evidence from the games themselves is more valid than any amount of author statement

Which we have, Shinra's picture combined with Kitase, The Ultimanias, and Nojima's statements

The shinra's picture would just be a different universe than the shinra from X-2

That's solely your assumption and nothing based in fact. You're trying to go off 1 thing against several and trying to rationalize existing info to suit your argument

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Well, a "different dimension" can also mean a "different metric" (in this case time), so two separate planets being called "dimensions" in this context isn't too questionable.

That's a made up definition and you'd have to prove why that interpretation is more consistent

Which we have, Shinra's picture combined with Kitase, The Ultimanias, and Nojima's statements

That's solely your assumption and nothing based in fact. You're trying to go off 1 thing against several and trying to rationalize existing info to suit your argument

The pictures could just be alternate universe versions, like how there's other universes where people like Terra, Squall, Cloud exist (Chocobo GP), and as shown in Ring of Fates, there's infinite universes where there can be infinite versions of someone that is similar. The author statements have a lot less validity than the source material

 

[HST_Master]

The pictures could just be alternate universe versions, like how there's other universes where people like Terra, Squall, Cloud exist (Chocobo GP), and as shown in Ring of Fates, there's infinite universes where there can be infinite versions of someone that is similar. The author statements have a lot less validity than the source material

And

A. The source Material shows Shinra in the photo, you can't just go and say "well that source material doesn't count" just because it counters your own argument

B. It's backed up by statements from Nojima, Kitase and the Ultimanias

There's far more backing for X and VII being connected than it not being, so far your sole arguments is trying to make some reason up as to why Shinra blatantly being in a picture in 7 remake and 4 different statements on 4 different occasions by 4 different sources are suddenly superceded by your 1 conflicting statement from SoP.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

For reference, we don't assume the Toy Story universe is within KH's, even if Woody and company were canonically grabbed from there by Young Xehanort, as the "world" that appears in KH is just a copy YX did, and the whereabouts of the original for all we know would be in another multiverse, unless anybody is willing to correct me.

We don't? I don't think that the idea of worlds outside of the realms was introduced yet with the exception of unreality and the fact that Quadratum is viewed as fiction in the Toy Story universe would imply that it is on the main cosmology's side of reality unlike Quadratum.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

And

A. The source Material shows Shinra in the photo, you can't just go and say "well that source material doesn't count" just because it counters your own argument

B. It's backed up by statements from Nojima, Kitase and the Ultimanias

There's far more backing for X and VII being connected than it not being, so far your sole arguments is trying to make some reason up as to why Shinra blatantly being in a picture in 7 remake and 4 different statements on 4 different occasions by 4 different sources are suddenly superceded by your 1 conflicting statement from SoP.

I already told you why the photo wouldn't be evidence

What ultimania statement? And I already refuted that, the author is less valid than a game

There's far more backing for X and VII being connected than it not being, so far your sole arguments is trying to make some reason up as to why Shinra blatantly being in a picture in 7 remake and 4 different statements on 4 different occasions by 4 different sources are suddenly superceded by your 1 conflicting statement from SoP.

What more evidence is there?

Ngl this is also pointless, being canon to FF7 universe wouldn't grant anything, other final fantasy universes are similar

 

[Bobsican]

We don't? I don't think that the idea of worlds outside of the realms was introduced yet with the exception of unreality and the fact that Quadratum is viewed as fiction in the Toy Story universe would imply that it is on the main cosmology's side of reality unlike Quadratum.

Well, if we did that'd lead into anyone in TS having a heart, which we don't and just assume it's a thing only within the KH events (Which TBH raises more questions at best), although I recall that's more so out of some staff at the time being uncomfortable with it even being a canon crossover to both sides.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Well, if we did that'd lead into anyone in TS having a heart, which we don't and just assume it's a thing only within the KH events (Which TBH raises more questions at best), although I recall that's more so out of some staff at the time being uncomfortable with it even being a canon crossover to both sides.

I guess you are referring to the Resistances inherent to the heart that are indexed on the profiles? In my opinion that should be left out of the regular Toy Story keys due to not being a featured element in its regular canon.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, thing is that per recent revisions that'd also now include things that'd be inherent to their physiology (abstract existence for example), that can't just be divided like that without assuming the KH stuff remains only within such events (Which doesn't really work like that on that regard), but again, I recall that currently is mainly out of being a sort of "possibly" key but for canonicity. In any case that's quite off-topic.

 

[HST_Master]

I already told you why the photo wouldn't be evidence

This will be the last I say on this because this is derailing at this point:

No you didn't, you just made some baseless assumption that that wasn't the real Shinra, something you can't prove by any means.

What ultimania statement? And I already refuted that, the author is less valid than a game

Both X-2's Ultimania and VII's Ultimania Omega have clear statements of X and VII being connected when they refer to Shinra, the character and no you just said it was without any backing.

Well, thing is that per recent revisions that'd also now include things that'd be inherent to their physiology (abstract existence for example), that can't just be divided like that without assuming the KH stuff remains only within such events (Which doesn't really work like that on that regard), but again, I recall that currently is mainly out of being a sort of "possibly" key but for canonicity. In any case that's quite off-topic.

Back to Auron, at most I think just leaving a note on his KH profile with the possibility that he's the canon Auron will be for the best.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.
@SamanPatou ?

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Strife304]

I'm in agreement with the OP. Given that the provided statements from the creators make the connection between KH and FFX quite clear, they are linked by underworld and farplane. I don't see any contradictions in how KH's cosmology or FFX's Farplane function, they're bridging the dimensions in some way.

That said, if this is accepted, I believe that for indexing, KH Auron should have everything from the main page due to it being a one-sided crossover. There's a ton of things that would need to be proven in regards to saying FF and KH are both canon to one another.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

Also, there seems to be more concerns on KH and FF sharing a cosmology than this being a canon crossover to both sides in itself, so I think just merging the Auron pages as a single character (with separate keys of course) as SamanPatou proposed is a good idea.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I can make the thread on whether or not KH and FF share a cosmology next time, it looks like its a waste of time discussing it in this thread

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

@SamanPatou ?

 

[Jibz]

reg members cant @ staff, they wont get the ping, if you want them to get a notif reply to an old message

 

[Bobsican]

At most I can see Auron having a single file with two or more keys for FF and KH, considering him a single person.

Similarities between the series can be for the simple fact that they are developed by the same company with KH stemming from FF in the first place, but I believe that, for our purpose and the ideas that were behind the conception of both series (considering FF is quite olden than KH) we shouldn't consider them being the same canon throughly, especially out of simple WoG and some common points.

Hmmm, fine, however, is the act of merging the Auron profiles out of being the same character fine then after all?

Uh...

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The two places seem to just be connected because yes, maybe underworld shenanigans, dimensional portals or else, without further details we shouldn't assume anything more than a simple inter-dimensional connection that likely doesn't affect either place meaningfully.


WoG isn't always true, consistent and in this case it's a huge statement that also involves games and stuff on which Nomura doesn't have authority. To consider them the same, big multiverse, we should have many more references, evidences and most likely in-game confirmations on both sides.

For example, the Street Fighter universe is known for encompassing other three verses because of recurring characters, references withing the story of the games, infos in official guides and even word of god.

 

[Bobsican]

That was just in relation whether we should consider KH to share a multiverse with FF, not whether it can be considered a canon crossover to both sides or not.

 

[SamanPatou]

It could be fine, I guess, but remember to give him keys.

 

[Bobsican]

Yeah, that'd be a given.
I guess I'll go ahead and apply the edits.

 

[Bobsican]

The CRT has been applied, this thread can be closed.