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No Dissidia isn't another universe its like a canon kinda crossover game between the FF games with its explanations for how it plays out but regardless this whole blog is for FF7 that I sent even covers the shinra weaponry.
As far as materia nah that's about it for what they bring to the plate
Continue our conversation yesterday.
I still confused on how Dissidia's Ifrit would be considered to be FF7's Ifrit.
As far as I understand, the summons from each instalments are different entities with different origins but with a same name.
Like how Clive's Ifrit was created by Ultima, while Cloud's Ifrit was created by the memories from the Lifestream.
Please dont think this is an attempt to debunk current stats, I am simply love to know more about scailing reasoning
It’s not a FF7 specific thing, it’s literally a general thing for all the summons when Dissidia is talking about Ifrit and shiva In a general sense and not specific when it’s crossing over all the FF mainline games
hmm... How come? What feats that put the 3rd class SOLDIERs above the Space Marine?
I cant find the 3rd class SOLDIERs profiles on the wiki, or perhap I missed it?
Ah, no, no. They legitimately don't have profiles yet. I am working on profile for generic SOLDIER members, but it's pretty bare bones. Also had to delay it because aside the usual 3 classes from the older games, the mobile games added the Project Zero so I had to go through those two mobile titles to gather info on them. And then I realized that in the Dirge of Cerberus game, the organization of the bad guys, Deepground, is also a SOLDIER division, so had to go back at that game as well. And, more important than anything: I'm very slow. Like, I try but getting things done takes me forever.
Infantry is a bit more complicated. The scaling blog has a section explaining the power of Shinra's Weaponry. As Dale mentioned, stat wise they are only Wall level for comparing to enemies who can shatter stone statues, and Supersonic for being able to dodge gunfire from automatic rifles and machine guns. However, as I explain here, the weapons Shinra provides can go all the way up to the level of 1st Class SOLDIER, who are Multi-Solar System, given that if they can produce Super Soldiers, magical weaponry, mechas and all, it makes sense for their firearms to be on that level, especially as constant testing and improvement of weapons is a priority for Shinra. Zack lost specifically because they sent an entire army specially armed to take him down.
There's also a feat for Shiva within the VII lore that also falls into Multi-Continent. So that as well I guess.
3rd Classes also show use Thunder/ra, Blizzard/ra and Aero in Remake and IIRC Fire/Fira/Firaga in Ever Crisis. But to be fair, Crisis Core establishes that most SOLDIER's equipment is provided by the company for specific missions and personalized gear is a privilege of 1st Classes. So it can be argued they can get any common Materia.
Heard that as well, that is a huge improvement over Remake. I'm still catching up, decided to replay Remake and go through Ever Crisis first.
The First SOLDIER has some interesting bits regarding Sephiroth. He's only 16 in the story. He's been aware since the beginning that most of his heroic are setups by Shinra to prop him up as a hero and the posterboy of the SOLDIER program to recruit members. He has resigned to this role though, but absolutely hates his whole hero reputation. The First SOLDIER chapter is actually his first proper mission and it goes horribly wrong.
While Sephiroth slaps everything in his path, his mission is essentially a genocide on the remains of a former culture that is an enemy of Shinra. While he can carry that out, it soon dawns on him how messed up is what he just did (which was surprising, given how Crisis Core completely ignored the implications of SOLDIERs actions to push the whole "dreams and honor" BS and play SOLDIER as your generic shonen anime knights in shining armor) and then he tries to help the last remaining person of that people, but said boy is so distraught over the loss of his people that he simply asks to be killed, which Sephiroth tries to talk him out of by offering to help him find a new purpose and home, but is told off and he has to kill the boy to save his team, as this whole mess started because Shinra wanted to build a reactor on the island they were on, but screwed up the process and caused the Lifestream to erupt and cause the whole place to collapse and sink into the ocean. So Sephiroth ended up a mass murderer, failure to save a person he tried to help and hated by his team, his very first friends, for killing the boy... and Shinra celebrated all of this.
Some extra bits also shows just how desperate for family and affection Sephiroth is. He used to carry a photo of Lucrecia with him, which he was told was Jenova his mother (...eh, 80% accurate), and extra chapters show scenarios, though it isn't explained if these are dreams or such, where he is actually with Lucrecia like a family. She's there welcoming him after missions, they dine together, they go on trips whenever Sephiroth takes a break from his duties, she encourages and tells him how much she loves him and all.
Chapter 2 explains how he got the Masamune. The chapter is still ongoing, so it hasn't been asnwered yet, but it apparently it's either a demonic blade forged by a swordsmith called Masamune or the man himself is a demonic entity who forged the blade. It was explained that the sword was such a work of art that it caused people to fight and kill each other over it.
Speaking of, when going through the story I came across this cutscene again:
Aside Sephiroth showing off, I was thinking. Could it make for a good speed feat for the lower tiers? At first it looks Sephiroth just cuts a rocket, which is cool and all, but then you realize two things: the rocket is moving in slow motion and Sephiroth still cuts it so quickly that we can't see him do it, it looks like he just passed through. Furthermore, if you pay attention to the following seconds, you'll notice that the surrounding bullets change trajectory and avoid hitting Sephiroth's team. So yeah, not only Sephiroth sliced a rocket so quickly that even in slow-mo he was too fast for the eye, he deflected dozens of bullets as well at the same time.
Oh and he torches a forest only so he can stand menacingly in front of the fire destroying several armored vehicles and blowing them away. That could be good too I guess?
Ah, no, no. They legitimately don't have profiles yet. I am working on profile for generic SOLDIER members, but it's pretty bare bones. Also had to delay it because aside the usual 3 classes from the older games, the mobile games added the Project Zero so I had to go through those two mobile titles to gather info on them. And then I realized that in the Dirge of Cerberus game, the organization of the bad guys, Deepground, is also a SOLDIER division, so had to go back at that game as well. And, more important than anything: I'm very slow. Like, I try but getting things done takes me forever.
Infantry is a bit more complicated. The scaling blog has a section explaining the power of Shinra's Weaponry. As Dale mentioned, stat wise they are only Wall level for comparing to enemies who can shatter stone statues, and Supersonic for being able to dodge gunfire from automatic rifles and machine guns. However, as I explain here, the weapons Shinra provides can go all the way up to the level of 1st Class SOLDIER, who are Multi-Solar System, given that if they can produce Super Soldiers, magical weaponry, mechas and all, it makes sense for their firearms to be on that level, especially as constant testing and improvement of weapons is a priority for Shinra. Zack lost specifically because they sent an entire army specially armed to take him down.
There's also a feat for Shiva within the VII lore that also falls into Multi-Continent. So that as well I guess.
3rd Classes also show use Thunder/ra, Blizzard/ra and Aero in Remake and IIRC Fire/Fira/Firaga in Ever Crisis. But to be fair, Crisis Core establishes that most SOLDIER's equipment is provided by the company for specific missions and personalized gear is a privilege of 1st Classes. So it can be argued they can get any common Materia.
Uh, sorry was pretty busy with some IRL stuff for a good while, so pretty late. Still, whenever you have the time I'm counting on ya, dude.
Heard that as well, that is a huge improvement over Remake. I'm still catching up, decided to replay Remake and go through Ever Crisis first.
The First SOLDIER has some interesting bits regarding Sephiroth. He's only 16 in the story. He's been aware since the beginning that most of his heroic are setups by Shinra to prop him up as a hero and the posterboy of the SOLDIER program to recruit members. He has resigned to this role though, but absolutely hates his whole hero reputation. The First SOLDIER chapter is actually his first proper mission and it goes horribly wrong.
While Sephiroth slaps everything in his path, his mission is essentially a genocide on the remains of a former culture that is an enemy of Shinra. While he can carry that out, it soon dawns on him how messed up is what he just did (which was surprising, given how Crisis Core completely ignored the implications of SOLDIERs actions to push the whole "dreams and honor" BS and play SOLDIER as your generic shonen anime knights in shining armor) and then he tries to help the last remaining person of that people, but said boy is so distraught over the loss of his people that he simply asks to be killed, which Sephiroth tries to talk him out of by offering to help him find a new purpose and home, but is told off and he has to kill the boy to save his team, as this whole mess started because Shinra wanted to build a reactor on the island they were on, but screwed up the process and caused the Lifestream to erupt and cause the whole place to collapse and sink into the ocean. So Sephiroth ended up a mass murderer, failure to save a person he tried to help and hated by his team, his very first friends, for killing the boy... and Shinra celebrated all of this.
Some extra bits also shows just how desperate for family and affection Sephiroth is. He used to carry a photo of Lucrecia with him, which he was told was Jenova his mother (...eh, 80% accurate), and extra chapters show scenarios, though it isn't explained if these are dreams or such, where he is actually with Lucrecia like a family. She's there welcoming him after missions, they dine together, they go on trips whenever Sephiroth takes a break from his duties, she encourages and tells him how much she loves him and all.
Chapter 2 explains how he got the Masamune. The chapter is still ongoing, so it hasn't been asnwered yet, but it apparently it's either a demonic blade forged by a swordsmith called Masamune or the man himself is a demonic entity who forged the blade. It was explained that the sword was such a work of art that it caused people to fight and kill each other over it.
Speaking of, when going through the story I came across this cutscene again:
Aside Sephiroth showing off, I was thinking. Could it make for a good speed feat for the lower tiers? At first it looks Sephiroth just cuts a rocket, which is cool and all, but then you realize two things: the rocket is moving in slow motion and Sephiroth still cuts it so quickly that we can't see him do it, it looks like he just passed through. Furthermore, if you pay attention to the following seconds, you'll notice that the surrounding bullets change trajectory and avoid hitting Sephiroth's team. So yeah, not only Sephiroth sliced a rocket so quickly that even in slow-mo he was too fast for the eye, he deflected dozens of bullets as well at the same time.
Oh and he torches a forest only so he can stand menacingly in front of the fire destroying several armored vehicles and blowing them away. That could be good too I guess?
Storywise the only interesting thing is the First SOLDIER and even then it suffers from being rather rushed (honestly, it would have been great if all the story mode was dedicated to it). The FFVII and CC story modes barely add new things and mostly stick very loyally to the original games, but summarize a lot of the plot, to the point I wouldn't really recommend them over playing the original games.
The events are alright, whenever they have a plot, but nothing really noteworthy from what I've seen myself. Though some interesting stuff does happen in crossovers. For example, the FFVI crossover actually has a lore explanation, takes place in a moment of FFVI that doesn't cause contradictions and you even get to fight an early story Kefka.
Interestingly, Ever Crisis and Rebirth are finally settling down a bit on what the Lifestream is and use that to explain events: the memories of everything create its currents, currents that transcend time and space and contain an ever branching number of worlds and new possibilities that become worlds. The Lifestream can eventually reach different realities and create portals, allowing people from any place and any point in time to travel to that time and place.
Say, had to ask for some more stuff in the Calculations Thread. Still had many gaps with the scaling in Tactics and want to rely as little as possible on cross-scaling. If anyone can help much appreciated. Dale, BTW, I'm not pushing this into you or anything, you're the reason I've gotten stuff done on FF since 2022, and I really don't want to take you for granted.
Priority 1: Scales to mid to high-tiers, I think. Verse: Final Fantasy XII (also affects Tactics) Feat:Belias creates a miniature sun. Additional Info:
Tired of searching for Tier 2+ verses that are within a relative range to another's scaling? Well, look no further. The purpose of this thread is to act as a community curated catalog for Tier 2+ verses on this wiki. Other important feats that are relevant to scaling, such as layers, hax, speed, et cetera, may also be listed.
Verses will be listed from lowest to highest. Only list characters from verses that have Tier 2 scaling. Low 2-C characters are omitted from this list. Tier 2-A characters are always X number of countable infinities in scaling. Variable listings for verses...
i found 2 guidebooks for FFV which has a ton of info on the jobs and magic etc but they are in japanese. I translated some part of the white magic page but i used MTL and i heard it isnt very accurate.
I also want some help sorting out the PnA for the Void and the Rift since on the profiles their pna seemingly bleed together.
i found 2 guidebooks for FFV which has a ton of info on the jobs and magic etc but they are in japanese. I translated some part of the white magic page but i used MTL and i heard it isnt very accurate.
I also want some help sorting out the PnA for the Void and the Rift since on the profiles their pna seemingly bleed together.
Well, you could ask the Translation Request thread for help. Sometimes is a bit slow, but many times they are super helpful.
Checking out V sounds great again, given how important the Void is and how it eventually overreached the entire franchise.
I'd help you with the Discord, but I currently can't use it. Long story short, I currently use my work's PC for everything and Discord is blocked in it.
EDIT: Unrelated, but I'm starting to get a bit concerned. I want to make a couple of new CRTs for some minor stuff for FFIII and finally give proper stats to FF Tactics, but I was waiting to close the FFVIII revision, but I just can't get that final staff input, despite asking around everyone (then again, I am aware staff gets like a funkazillion requests a day). @ActuallySpaceMan42 mentioned they would take a look at the CRT if it didn't get any movement, but was taken aback by the sheer amount of crap I put in there >_>;.
I'd help you with the Discord, but I currently can't use it. Long story short, I currently use my work's PC for everything and Discord is blocked in it.
EDIT: Unrelated, but I'm starting to get a bit concerned. I want to make a couple of new CRTs for some minor stuff for FFIII and finally give proper stats to FF Tactics, but I was waiting to close the FFVIII revision, but I just can't get that final staff input, despite asking around everyone (then again, I am aware staff gets like a funkazillion requests a day). @ActuallySpaceMan42 mentioned they would take a look at the CRT if it didn't get any movement, but was taken aback by the sheer amount of crap I put in there >_>;.
If I'm correct he upscales from 2 universes. 2 arm Gilgamesh could match Bartz and co who scaled to their crystals, which kept the 2 worlds apart (and merged once the crystals were destroyed).
Also, a not so good news. Apparently the whole "reduce the world to ashes" bit of Ifrit in the original Dissidia was the English translation making the original Japanese text sound more dramatic, which simply states that Ifrit's flames are so hot that he can "burn anything in the world". I did ask for help to check properly in the Translation Request thread to make sure.
If I'm correct he upscales from 2 universes. 2 arm Gilgamesh could match Bartz and co who scaled to their crystals, which kept the 2 worlds apart (and merged once the crystals were destroyed).
Also, a not so good news. Apparently the whole "reduce the world to ashes" bit of Ifrit in the original Dissidia was the English translation making the original Japanese text sound more dramatic, which simply states that Ifrit's flames are so hot that he can "burn anything in the world". I did ask for help to check properly in the Translation Request thread to make sure.
False alarm, fortunately. The Translation Request thread confirmed that the Japanese version is not an exaggeration or flowery language or stuff like that, the Japanese text of Dissidia is a literal description of Ifrit's abilities. So the scaling goes untouched.
i found 2 guidebooks for FFV which has a ton of info on the jobs and magic etc but they are in japanese. I translated some part of the white magic page but i used MTL and i heard it isnt very accurate.
I also want some help sorting out the PnA for the Void and the Rift since on the profiles their pna seemingly bleed together.
Hey, dude. I asked my bud for translations on the job descriptions. He could at least provide me with two:
KNIGHT
A title traditionally given to those chosen as true heroes.
Warriors bravely charge into battle with great physical and mental strength. Those with outstanding swordsmanship and the ability to overcome any challenge were called knights. To qualify as a knight, one must be skilled enough to freely wield the mighty holy swords, as well as the kindness to use their own bodies as shields to protect the weak. Only those who possess all these qualities are given the prestigious title of Knight.
MONK
A fighting expert who has thoroughly trained mind and body to the utmost limit.
Hand-to-hand combat spread among martial artists as a form of spiritual training. Those who have perfected their skills and trained their bodies, to the point of attaining an unshakable spirit, are called Monks. Using only their bodies as their weapon, Monks can achieve a power that surpasses that of the sword, by focusing their mind on a single point. By further raising their spirit, they have also achieved the ability to naturally recover their physical strength.
Hey, dude. I asked my bud for translations on the job descriptions. He could at least provide me with two:
KNIGHT
A title traditionally given to those chosen as true heroes.
Warriors bravely charge into battle with great physical and mental strength. Those with outstanding swordsmanship and the ability to overcome any challenge were called knights. To qualify as a knight, one must be skilled enough to freely wield the mighty holy swords, as well as the kindness to use their own bodies as shields to protect the weak. Only those who possess all these qualities are given the prestigious title of Knight.
MONK
A fighting expert who has thoroughly trained mind and body to the utmost limit.
Hand-to-hand combat spread among martial artists as a form of spiritual training. Those who have perfected their skills and trained their bodies, to the point of attaining an unshakable spirit, are called Monks. Using only their bodies as their weapon, Monks can achieve a power that surpasses that of the sword, by focusing their mind on a single point. By further raising their spirit, they have also achieved the ability to naturally recover their physical strength.
The FFVIII CRT was approved, so I'll get to work on that. I also saw by chance @Apotheosis69 corrections on the profile I made for Sephiroth and there's a lot of stuff I was doing wrong when it came to coding and format. So, uh... it's gonna be a bit longer than just copy pasting the sandbox.
This one has the same problem as the other one where I can't do anything because I can't find a good measure for the summon height
otherwise though I wanted to try this one but even idek how I'd begin to go about this besides I'm sure it probably scales to busting the dimension anyways which would be like 4-A from the looks of it
This I can't do because I can't find a good measure for the summon height
I don't know any way to realistically calculate something like this or even if you can since that kind of rapid draining can't happen irl
This one has the same problem as the other one where I can't do anything because I can't find a good measure for the summon height
otherwise though I wanted to try this one but even idek how I'd begin to go about this besides I'm sure it probably scales to busting the dimension anyways which would be like 4-A from the looks of it
THIEF
A reliable individual with outstanding survival instincts, speed and dexterity.
A professional bandit who makes the most of his skills to achieve their goals. Sharp from their frequent battles, they can quickly detect danger. Thieves have the insight to detect abnormalities that others fail to notice, and the speed to escape from any situation. With their method of theft, they reliably take their prize at a moment's notice. The thief's strength relies on their resourcefulness to survive adversity.
WIZARD (Black Mage)
An orthodox magician who wished for peace without misusing magical power.
In ancient times magic was used in rituals such as religious festivals. Black Magic in particular was considered an effective way of protecting oneself from external enemies, and those who acquired it were valued as Black Mages. During times of war, Black Magic came to be used as a form of weapon. However, many Wizards did not wish for this, leading to them sealing off their power, causing Black Magic to effectively vanish.
THIEF
A reliable individual with outstanding survival instincts, speed and dexterity.
A professional bandit who makes the most of his skills to achieve their goals. Sharp from their frequent battles, they can quickly detect danger. Thieves have the insight to detect abnormalities that others fail to notice, and the speed to escape from any situation. With their method of theft, they reliably take their prize at a moment's notice. The thief's strength relies on their resourcefulness to survive adversity.
WIZARD (Black Mage)
An orthodox magician who wished for peace without misusing magical power.
In ancient times magic was used in rituals such as religious festivals. Black Magic in particular was considered an effective way of protecting oneself from external enemies, and those who acquired it were valued as Black Mages. During times of war, Black Magic came to be used as a form of weapon. However, many Wizards did not wish for this, leading to them sealing off their power, causing Black Magic to effectively vanish.
Attack Potency: Multi-Continent level (The Warriors of Light are said to be worthy of wielding and summoning Ifirit's power who is capable of burning the world away, leaving only ashes. | Low Multiverse level (The Warriors of Light are capable of fighting against both Gilgamesh and Exdeath who are far stronger than Galuf.) | Multiverse level+ (The Warriors of Light defeated Neo Exdeath, an entity born from the Void which threatened to destroy the multiverse.) | Multiverse level+ (Far Stronger than before.) | Multiverse level+ (Draws power from the gods of the cycle. Participated in the defeat of Shinryu)
Speed: Sub-Relativistic+ (Defeated Ifrit, being able to gain his respect. and summon him in battle.) | Massively FTL+ (Kept pace with Base and, to a lesser extent, transformed Gilgamesh.) | At least Massively FTL+ (Fought and defeated Bahamut and the Demons of the Rift, as well as defeating Neo Exdeath within the void) | At least Massively FTL+ | Massively FTL+ (Kept pace with Shinryu)
Lifting Strength: Class M (The Warriors of Light have fought and combated against Titan, defeating him in the end. Titan is capable of flipping the Diamon Weapon.) | Stellar (The Warriors of Light are able to defeat Base Gilgamesh.) | Immeasurable (The Warriors of Light are capable of pushing back Neo Exdeath) | Immeasurable | Immeasurable
I dont know where in particular Gilgamesh scales in speed I would like some help with it please
I used TartaChocholate scaling blogs for extra evidence.
I have a scan somewhere that states summoners arent able to summon anything that exceeds their power so that might help with scaling
Do we have much evidence for Ifrit scaling in speed the same way across all the games? Gilgamesh is much easier to explain when it's the same dude but trying to cross scale Ifrit to Sub relativistic from FF7 feels a little much unless we can compile a cosmology blog to explain all of the viable cross scaling the series would get.
I dont know where in particular Gilgamesh scales in speed I would like some help with it please
I used TartaChocholate scaling blogs for extra evidence.
I have a scan somewhere that states summoners arent able to summon anything that exceeds their power so that might help with scaling
Glass has a point. The Dissidia bio is at least an overall description that could be applied to Ifrit in general. But Speed and Lifting Strength in the scaling blog are currently associated with feats from a specific game. I think it would be better to use stuff proper from FFV, like Titan splitting the earth in his summoning sequence there or maybe Leviathan's Tidal Wave, for example. For speed I would look at what stuff you can dodge in the earlier game. While I don't remember FFV well, but, for example, in FFIV there were laser attacks that the party could avoid early on.
Okay, so, the point here is to provide scaling to Final Fantasy Tactics based on proper feats found in the game itself or at least the Ivalice Alliance titles. I don't think cross-scaling is inherently wrong, but I can't call myself a big fan of it given it often leaves aside feats and proper...
Say, dude do you have the scans proper of your current requests for translations of FFV jobs and abilities? I gave the japanese text to my bud, but he told me there's something odd with the text itself.
Say, dude do you have the scans proper of your current requests for translations of FFV jobs and abilities? I gave the japanese text to my bud, but he told me there's something odd with the text itself.
