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Final Fantasy 16 discussion thread

Don't understand how much I vehemently despise how any 2-A cross scaling always ruins what scaling any FF games connected by have narratives.

Genuinely hope 16 doesn't get anything like that directly connected... don't need another FF15 😭
 
sageof8paths said:
If bahamut lands it in game u die
Click to expand...
Just wanna point out the version of gigaflare that acts as an instant kill is stronger than his normal gigaflares, normally he charges up then fires the beam but for the instant kill one he uses his light orbs to draw in and channel a lot of aether for his attack.

Dalesean027 said:
Don't understand how much I vehemently despise how any 2-A cross scaling always ruins what scaling any FF games connected by have narratives.

Genuinely hope 16 doesn't get anything like that directly connected... don't need another FF15 😭
Click to expand...
Bro same, cross scaling is the bane of my existence I cannot stand it lmao
 
G33kedzinx said:
Sooner or later it's gonna happen lol. The game was too much of a success to not have other final fantasy collaborations, and there was just a clive and jill Evixus collaboration.
Click to expand...
Not saying it shouldn't have collabs I'm saying I hope its not done in a way that messes with established scaling and lore, if its done I hope its done in a way where it can be a separate key or profile
 
Dalesean027 said:
Don't understand how much I vehemently despise how any 2-A cross scaling always ruins what scaling any FF games connected by have narratives.

Genuinely hope 16 doesn't get anything like that directly connected... don't need another FF15 😭
Click to expand...
Cross scaling can be fine if done right. I think FFVII is done right in that regard, characters are 2-A only for their Dissidia self and have their own, specific proper game related tiers.
XV is a complete mess though (like the game). I mean, I love it and I love its characters so having Noctis and co being that high is nice in the "the characters I love are rated so high" aspect. But it makes no sense in regard to the story. Like, at best I can see the strongest being tier 4 but 2-A? especially Pre-timeskip? Bull****
 
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Btw, has an Ultima blog been started already? Same question for Clive, even unfinished I'm curious at what they would look like
 
Yeah it really is a shame, most characters have renders and/or artwork to work with by atm there's nothing really good for Ultima besides the profile images from the active time lore (Except for Ultima Risen he didn't have a profile so as you can see I had to use a screenshot from his boss fight). There's good artwork to use for him that comes from the official art book they released (Although it doesn't have his normal form for some reason) but right now there's no good renders of them online
 
I think all we need is to figure out the width of the split then we'd be set. Timeframe might be a little tricky, we see the split happen in a few seconds but not sure if that's just for the section of sea we see get split or if it's for the entire length of the sea the slash needed to travel
 
Dust_Collector said:
I think all we need is to figure out the width of the split then we'd be set. Timeframe might be a little tricky, we see the split happen in a few seconds but not sure if that's just for the section of sea we see get split or if it's for the entire length of the sea the slash needed to travel
Click to expand...
Doesn't necessarily need a timeframe since the water stays dispersed afterward ya can just get the volume for the GPE of the water that was displayed
 
On second thought, maybe the sea splitting feat should be put on hold seeing as it might be irrelevant because of what I’m about to say.

Base Ultima and I mean the most fodder ultima ever shown is able to cast a storm on the whole Valisthia, which we know now is around 18,000km in diameter in the span of like a day.



Would this scale to ultima alone?

NO

This is because

1. This ultima later on equips an ifrit skin and fights Clive (who just finished high diffing Odin) and Joshua (both in semi prime arguably base) in the rift and gets pushed back then they one shot him when they fuse into ifrit risen.

Here:

2. It is then confirmed that ultima isn’t at full power and his true power will show when he’s in “origin”, so it doesn’t contradict them later on losing to Ultima Prime (not to be confused with ultima risen) when they eventually fight him again at origin as well as the fact that he absorbs a ton of aether after this fight



I propose that the top tier eikons should scale to this storm creation feat seeing as this was a Clive who had just needed to high diff Odin to the point where ifrit got tired and couldn’t even come out, yet he didn’t even need to prime to scale to his ultima.

(this ultima would even be stronger than the one that created the storm seeing as he fused with an ifrit skin or smth), Joshua doesn’t even get any amps since the Barnabas battle and would probably still lose to him by then let alone without priming.

So Ramuh, Garuda, pre timeskip ifrit, pre timeskip Phoenix and titan island level+

While the rest would scale to this ultima feat

Quick calc I did got it to country level but their some obvious lowballs like the height of the storm (I use average height) and for timeframe I just use a day because it skips to the next day bf we see anything.
 
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ArkhamDC06 said:
Alright, I just fot past Barnarbas's final boss. Epic af.

So here's the almost complete blog now. All that's left is Stamina (since we haven't discussed it) and possible changes in rating

vsbattles.fandom.com

Barnabas Tharmr

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
It'd be higher as Odin since he'd be stronger than his Semi-Prime. But yeah its looking good
 
sageof8paths said:
Base Ultima and I mean the most fodder ultima ever shown is able to cast a storm on the whole Valisthia, which we know now is around 18,000km in diameter in the span of like a day.
Click to expand...
Not really a storm per say he just makes it cloudy across it all of it so weak instability would be best.

The clouds look to be Nimbostratus imo so at least using the average height above ground and cloud thickness with 18000km gets us

2,691,653,389,787,021,300kg


So that'd be 643.3206 Gigatons (High 6-C+) using weak instability.

If we were to use moderate at all then it'd be 1.6083 Teratons (Low 6-B)


If nothing else the game is consistent
 
Dalesean027 said:
Not really a storm per say he just makes it cloudy across it all of it so weak instability would be best.

The clouds look to be Nimbostratus imo so at least using the average height above ground and cloud thickness with 18000km gets us

2,691,653,389,787,021,300kg


So that'd be 643.3206 Gigatons (High 6-C+) using weak instability.

If we were to use moderate at all then it'd be 1.6083 Teratons (Low 6-B)


If nothing else the game is consistent
Click to expand...
U probably know a ton more about clouds than me but here’s some things you should to account for

1. For primogenesis to accomplish its goal it’s needs to rain aether around the realm.

2. There’s very much a storm at least in Waloed,(there’s rain and lightning)

3. From the video we see of the beginning of primogenesis, it looks like a storm.

Here:

I think the idea was the storm spread through out the entire realm then subsided later on in the game.

The problem is it cuts to the next day when it’s already pretty much done so we can only assume 24 hours.

I guess we could find out how long it takes for a storm to die down then subtract it by 24 hours to get a better timeframe?
 
sageof8paths said:
U probably know a ton more about clouds than me but here’s some things you should to account for

1. For primogenesis to accomplish its goal it’s needs to rain aether around the realm.

2. There’s very much a storm at least in Waloed,(there’s rain and lightning)

3. From the video we see of the beginning of primogenesis, it looks like a storm.

Here:

I think the idea was the storm spread through out the entire realm then subsided later on in the game.

The problem is it cuts to the next day when it’s already pretty much done so we can only assume 24 hours.

I guess we could find out how long it takes for a storm to die down then subtract it by 24 hours to get a better timeframe?
Click to expand...

According to this , it takes one hour for a storm to dissipate. So I used 23 hours as a timeframe. Which gave me around 217 m/s.

Plugged your calculated mass into the kinetic energy calculator and got 6 x 10^22 or Country Level.

 
sageof8paths said:
According to this , it takes one hour for a storm to dissipate. So I used 23 hours as a timeframe. Which gave me around 217 m/s.

Plugged your calculated mass into the kinetic energy calculator and got 6 x 10^22 or Country Level.

Click to expand...

Storm based KE works a bit different when working with omnidirectional stuff so the formula would be one of these two below using our numbers

0.25 * 2,691,653,389,787,021,300 * 217^2 = 3.1686817e+22 Joules or 7.577 teratons (6-B)

1/12 * 2,691,653,389,787,021,300 * 217^2 = 1.0562272e+22 Joules or 2.524 Teratons (low 6-B)
 
Dust_Collector said:
So Low 6-B to 6-B is what we're looking at huh? Pretty neat.
Click to expand...
So all high tier dominants would scale in base or semi prime (the cutscene before shows ultima restricting Clive’s ability to semi prime but in the boss fight itself Clive can semi prime)

Did we ever get semi prime dion? Lol

Bahamut≈Odin/Barnabas who clive can high diff harder than this form of ultima so they should scale.
 
I think most Dominants end up scaling in some way since the Behemoth could put up a good fight against Clive and Joshua (And this is like right before they fight Ultima) and then Dion and Jill alongside some other allies could kill the Behemoth. Titan also 100% scales since Clive / Ifrit didn't get any boosts between his fight with Titan and Bahamut (Clive absorbed a portion of Titan's essence before he actually fought Titan, and even then the essence boosts he gets don't even seem to be that big).

Only ones I'm maybe unsure on are Benedicta and Cid since they both ended up dead before the timeskip. Granted I don't think we get much that implies Clive is way stronger after those 5 years than he was beforehand (He and Jill mostly traveled around the continents freeing Bearers and didn't really need to push themselves to get strong enough to handle the mooks they commonly dealt with).
 
Dalesean027 said:
Don't understand how much I vehemently despise how any 2-A cross scaling always ruins what scaling any FF games connected by have narratives.

Genuinely hope 16 doesn't get anything like that directly connected... don't need another FF15 😭
Click to expand...
I have mixed feelings about it as well. It's why I fought to keep the original game's ratings for VII and the crossover scaling to Tactics as "likely". Cross scaling kind of trivializes all feats that happen in the original game itself.
 
TartaChocholate said:
I have mixed feelings about it as well. It's why I fought to keep the original game's ratings for VII and the crossover scaling to Tactics as "likely". Cross scaling kind of trivializes all feats that happen in the original game itself.
Click to expand...
Nah you did your thing, thats how all of them should be handled imo either another key, profile, or just possibly for crossover reasons
 
Crossover scaling is kinda cringe unless it's for a cool spin off that doesn't affect the main games ratings, like Dissidia. Kinda negates the point of trying to scale the contents of the original game and even sometimes make's some stuff seem silly (Imagine if even base Bahamut in 16 scaled to his other incarnations from different games, would make the entire shock value of his Zettaflare being powerful enough to destroy the planets surface vanish if he actually scaled to Multi-Solar System level).

Also made a better and slightly more accurate measurement for Valisthea now that I got back to my laptop, someone better at pixel scaling can also give it a shot but using this I got 19,052 km for Valisthea west to east (Ignore the red line not being connected to any landmass, it's because the most eastern part of the islands coast doesn't line up with Rosaria's western coast).
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Alright, I just fot past Barnarbas's final boss. Epic af.

So here's the almost complete blog now. All that's left is Stamina (since we haven't discussed it) and possible changes in rating

vsbattles.fandom.com

Barnabas Tharmr

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Very good, like you said there's not much left besides stamina and possible rating changes to add onto it. Do need some scans for his different darkness abilities which shouldn't take long given how much he loves using them more than any other dominant likes using their elements, he should also have durability negation (His darkness can slash straight into the body and sever sinews directly without even needing to cut open any wounds), and deconstruction since his barrier makes living beings just evaporate upon contact (As shown with the birds that flew into it).

Would also reword some of his justifications, Clive only absorbs a portion of the Eikons essence when he gets them so maybe changing the wording of stuff like "It took Clive using six of the seven Eikonic powers he's gained including Ifrit's to defeat Barnabas" to something a bit different since it could come across as Clive having all their full powers combined to people unfamiliar with the game.

Also I updated my Dominants sandbox since the last time I showed it off so you can add a the last few missing powers from that as well.
 
Dust_Collector said:
I think most Dominants end up scaling in some way since the Behemoth could put up a good fight against Clive and Joshua (And this is like right before they fight Ultima) and then Dion and Jill alongside some other allies could kill the Behemoth. Titan also 100% scales since Clive / Ifrit didn't get any boosts between his fight with Titan and Bahamut (Clive absorbed a portion of Titan's essence before he actually fought Titan, and even then the essence boosts he gets don't even seem to be that big).

Only ones I'm maybe unsure on are Benedicta and Cid since they both ended up dead before the timeskip. Granted I don't think we get much that implies Clive is way stronger after those 5 years than he was beforehand (He and Jill mostly traveled around the continents freeing Bearers and didn't really need to push themselves to get strong enough to handle the mooks they commonly dealt with).
Click to expand...
Odin/Barnabas, Bahamut/Dion and Clive/Ifrit should be acknowledged as stronger than the other Dominants. Bahamut and Odin both took a considerable amount of efforts to defeat and this was after Clive had absorbed several powers from other Eikons
 
Yeah they're def the top 3. I'd wager Titan is superior to all of them in raw physical strength tho, but given that Bahamut and Odin are also superior to Ifrit he's not that much stronger than them and he's held back by being way inferior in every other way (mobility, abilities, range, plus they have attacks that noticably superior to their base physicals which ends up making Titan's physical advantage moot anyway).

I'd personally rank em like this:
  1. Barnabas / Odin
  2. Clive / Ifrit (Endgame; Before Final Ultima Fight)
  3. Dion / Bahamut
  4. Clive / Ifrit (Titan and Bahamut Fights)
  5. Hugo / Titan (Albeit Number 1 in raw physical strength)
  6. Cid / Ramuh
  7. Clive / Ifrit (Pre-Timeskip; Before Titan Fight)
  8. Joshua / Phoenix
  9. Jill / Shiva
  10. Benedikta / Garuda
 
Just finished the game. Honestly a great one.

That final fight against Ultima was pretty spectacular, especially the arena for Ultima Risen. Easily one of the best arenas. Music is not on the level as One-Winged Angel, Dancing Mad or Almighty Bhunivelze but it was pretty badass to.
In general, I loved the game. Great graphics, most of the characters are very charismatic and easy to like, particulary Jill, Mid, Hab, Cid and Byron. Clive is an excellent protagonists, easily one of the most badass and very likeable. Music is top notch, some are among the best in the franchise, Find The Flame being THE best in the OST, with the music for Dominants, Bahamut and Titan Lost being close second. All Dominant/Eikon bosses are amazing, all worthy of being a final boss in another game, with Titan, Odin and Bahamut taking the cake. Ultima is a good antagonist, with a pretty creepy design (particulary the eyes) that really sell out how alien he is. I love that the story starts out as a "low" fantasy medieval GoT-like story but then completely shifts on itself with Ultima with much higher stakes.

My only complains would be that some characters are kind of wasted. Benedikta and Hugo notably are good but not really well used I think, particulary Hugo, he just comes of as an easily tricked brute. Emperor Sylvestre has an amazing design but like them he's reduced to a puppet for Annabella and I genuinely think he could have been used better, especially since aside from Mateus emperors in FF tend to be tossed aside as antagonists (FFVI and XV were guilty of this notably) and I think something else could have been done with giving him a greater role as an antagonist. Ultima is also good but not that memorable compared to older FF villains and I'd say Caius Ballad, Bhunivelze and Ardyn Izunia are much better. Another complain would be that you can't visit some pretty magnificent-looking locations. I just love the design for Oriflamme and I was very disappointed you can't visit the city. A minor one but I also think Jill could have had a greater role and more feats to her name. Cid could have also been there a bit longer even if he's really good (plus once again Ramuh get sidelined in the storyline). And as I said before, I wish we had more Eikons to add more variety in abilities, like Diabolos with gravity.

Overall, an excellent game, a solid 17/20 and I don't regret trying it in the slightest. I DO prefer FFVII and (ready for the beating) XV though but personal preferences.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Yeah they're def the top 3. I'd wager Titan is superior to all of them in raw physical strength tho, but given that Bahamut and Odin are also superior to Ifrit he's not that much stronger than them and he's held back by being way inferior in every other way (mobility, abilities, range, plus they have attacks that noticably superior to their base physicals which ends up making Titan's physical advantage moot anyway).

I'd personally rank em like this:
  1. Barnabas / Odin
  2. Clive / Ifrit (Endgame; Before Final Ultima Fight)
  3. Dion / Bahamut
  4. Clive / Ifrit (Titan and Bahamut Fights)
  5. Hugo / Titan (Albeit Number 1 in raw physical strength)
  6. Cid / Ramuh
  7. Clive / Ifrit (Pre-Timeskip; Before Titan Fight)
  8. Joshua / Phoenix
  9. Jill / Shiva
  10. Benedikta / Garuda
Click to expand...
I'd argue Phoenix is a bit closer to Bahamut since he was able to kind of harm him to a certain degree even on his own and Clive still had to combine Phoenix powers to fight Dion but not that much
 
Dust_Collector said:
I think most Dominants end up scaling in some way since the Behemoth could put up a good fight against Clive and Joshua (And this is like right before they fight Ultima) and then Dion and Jill alongside some other allies could kill the Behemoth. Titan also 100% scales since Clive / Ifrit didn't get any boosts between his fight with Titan and Bahamut (Clive absorbed a portion of Titan's essence before he actually fought Titan, and even then the essence boosts he gets don't even seem to be that big).

Only ones I'm maybe unsure on are Benedicta and Cid since they both ended up dead before the timeskip. Granted I don't think we get much that implies Clive is way stronger after those 5 years than he was beforehand (He and Jill mostly traveled around the continents freeing Bearers and didn't really need to push themselves to get strong enough to handle the mooks they commonly dealt with).
Click to expand...
Here’s my problem with this, u assume there needs to be a power amp stated or explicitly shown for Clive to get stronger when the game literally just shows he gets stronger as the story progresses as he’s mythos. He goes from getting one tapped by base Barnabas to beating Odin without any power up stated or shown.

U also assume that the behemoth Clive and Joshua face is as strong as the one dion and Jill face. Dion more than likely would scale but jill is very questionable as she loses to pre Garuda Clive in base while semi primed.
 
Last edited:
Dust_Collector said:
Yeah they're def the top 3. I'd wager Titan is superior to all of them in raw physical strength tho, but given that Bahamut and Odin are also superior to Ifrit he's not that much stronger than them and he's held back by being way inferior in every other way (mobility, abilities, range, plus they have attacks that noticably superior to their base physicals which ends up making Titan's physical advantage moot anyway).

I'd personally rank em like this:
  1. Barnabas / Odin
  2. Clive / Ifrit (Endgame; Before Final Ultima Fight)
  3. Dion / Bahamut
  4. Clive / Ifrit (Titan and Bahamut Fights)
  5. Hugo / Titan (Albeit Number 1 in raw physical strength)
  6. Cid / Ramuh
  7. Clive / Ifrit (Pre-Timeskip; Before Titan Fight)
  8. Joshua / Phoenix
  9. Jill / Shiva
  10. Benedikta / Garuda
Click to expand...
Dawg we literally see Clive beat Odin why is he #1😭.

Also we see Joshua able to hold off the sea splitting cut from Odin with his own shield momentarily, I think he should be below Clive or dion

Titan is not that strong at all this mf consumed a mother crystal and still got his ass whooped by base Ifrit in his 3rd appearance. While Joshua is comparable to base bahamut. Bahamut Consuming a mother crystal literally turned bahamut into a planet buster in comparison 😭
 
sageof8paths said:
He goes from getting one tapped by base Barnabas to beating Odin without any power up stated or shown.
Click to expand...
First time he get's blasted with dura neg, second time he also gets hit with the dura neg (That Barnabas charges up), then gets a portion of Shivas power and still is at a noticeable disadvantage until he pulls a uno reverse card with Odins own sword. Not to mention Bahamut and Odin are treated as equals and nothing happens between Clives fight with Titan and Bahamut besides walking around and fighting fodder to justify a massive amp. Like yeah he's always getting stronger but he's not going from, like, a 10 to a 50 every new fight.

sageof8paths said:
U also assume that the behemoth Clive and Joshua face is as strong as the one dion and Jill face. Dion more than likely would scale but jill is very questionable as she loses to pre Garuda Clive in base while semi primed.
Click to expand...
Why would it not be as strong, it wasn't a special behemoth or anything it was just a random one that pulled up. Hell I'm pretty sure it's the exact same one that later shows up to fight everyone else. Also how does Jill when semi primed used to Pre-Garuda clive? When primed she could hold off attacks from the fire elemental that gave semi-primed Clive a good fight, and before that her only other major showing was fighting Clive and his merry band of men where she didn't semi-prime and was tired and injured from her breif skirmish with Titan.

sageof8paths said:
Dawg we literally see Clive beat Odin why is he #1😭.

Also we see Joshua able to hold off the sea splitting cut from Odin with his own shield momentarily, I think he should be below Clive or dion
Click to expand...
I'm only counting Ifrit in this list up until his final pre-ultima apperance, he was on the losing end until he turned Odin's own massive attack against him (Something Odin wasn't expecting). Joshua's shield is way above his normal power output (Since, y'know, it's a barrier) as shown with it also being able to block Teraflare and also other Dominants / Eikons barriers no selling attacks that normally harm them.

In terms of raw power and abilities he doesn't quite stack up (Although I've just noticed I accidently mixed up my placement with Ramuh, was meant to place the Phoenix above him). He's still comparable enough since he can harm Bahamut but he's not quite up to snuff.
 
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