FGO Fafnir re-calc + a Lifting Strength calc (Fate series)

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

This thread is made to discuss the application of the following calcs:

• A recalc of the accepted Fafnir feat: 24.7 Teratons of TNT (Country level)
• Herc throwing a pillar in HF2: 4.73 Kilotons of Force (Class M)

The latter is a mere 2x increase in LS over the current calc, but the former is a fairly major upgrade (not compared to any recently rejected threads but still). The arguments for my calculation of the feat as opposed to the current one are in the blog.

If the upgrade goes through, A+ rank and above Noble Phantasms as well as Numeral of the Saint Gawain would be bumped up to 24.7 Teratons, while Servants would scale to one third of it as is currently accepted, making their rating 8.23 Teratons (also Country level).

(I was originally going to make this a CRT hence why the other calc is also included but since we're discussing which end to use of an existing feat I ended up making it a Calc Group thread but the Herc feat might as well be included since it's minor and straightforward)


Edit: After some discussion, it's been decided to throw out the Fafnir feat altogether.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

i agree ez

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

i agree ez

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

i did read it

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

i did read it

yeah but I found the fact that you immediately agreed 2 minutes after the thread was posted (a Calc Group thread btw) funny

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

yeah but I found the fact that you immediately agreed 2 minutes after the thread was posted (a Calc Group thread btw) funny

anything to upgrade neco-arc sama. and arcueid too

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I'm not a calc group member, so my word should be taken with a grain of salt, but they seem fine.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

I'm not a calc group member, so my word should be taken with a grain of salt, but they seem fine.

the point of debate for the Fafnir feat is more of a context thing anyway. The math is straightforward, but what the characters mean by "the Orleans Region" is what needs to be discussed.

 

[RetroWeeeb]

the point of debate for the Fafnir feat is more of a context thing anyway. The math is straightforward, but what the characters mean by "the Orleans Region" is what needs to be discussed.

From a math perspective, your calc is def better. Mine was intentionally low-balled for the sake of it.

However, since posting the calc, I've come to change my mind regarding the context. I was gonna bring this up in a CRT of my own, but Uni work got in the way plus I'm hella lazy. I think its more likely to be referring to just Orleans the city, rather than the whole singularity. This is because the manga shows us a map of the final battle, noting the distances between the different fights. Initially, Fafnir attacks Jeanne's group before leaving to go attack Seigfried and Fujimaru. It is at this point that we get the feat/statement in question. Notice how Romani says "It won't be just Fujimaru's group. The whole Orleans region will be blown away!"

To me, this clearly indicates that Fafnir's attack was only intended to refer to the destruction of the Orleans city, as that is where Fujimaru and the others are currently located. There are no other groups present outside of this final battle.

So yeah, I don't think the replacement calc or my original calc are valid anymore and the Low 6-B ratings be replaced by something else. As for what that something else might be, that probably needs to be planned in the gen discussion.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

From a math perspective, your calc is def better. Mine was intentionally low-balled for the sake of it.

However, since posting the calc, I've come to change my mind regarding the context. I was gonna bring this up in a CRT of my own, but Uni work got in the way plus I'm hella lazy. I think its more likely to be referring to just Orleans the city, rather than the whole singularity. This is because the manga shows us a map of the final battle, noting the distances between the different fights. Initially, Fafnir attacks Jeanne's group before leaving to go attack Seigfried and Fujimaru. It is at this point that we get the feat/statement in question. Notice how Romani says "It won't be just Fujimaru's group. The whole Orleans region will be blown away!"

To me, this clearly indicates that Fafnir's attack was only intended to refer to the destruction of the Orleans city, as that is where Fujimaru and the others are currently located. There are no other groups present outside of this final battle.

So yeah, I don't think the replacement calc or my original calc are valid anymore and the Low 6-B ratings be replaced by something else. As for what that something else might be, that probably needs to be planned in the gen discussion.

RIP

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

RIP

this calc is here to save the nasuverse.

strange fake

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Violetcyanide]

However, since posting the calc, I've come to change my mind regarding the context. I was gonna bring this up in a CRT of my own, but Uni work got in the way plus I'm hella lazy. I think its more likely to be referring to just Orleans the city, rather than the whole singularity. This is because the manga shows us a map of the final battle, noting the distances between the different fights. Initially, Fafnir attacks Jeanne's group before leaving to go attack Seigfried and Fujimaru. It is at this point that we get the feat/statement in question. Notice how Romani says "It won't be just Fujimaru's group. The whole Orleans region will be blown away!"

The feat is less of "fafnir can blow away France" and more of
"dragons can destroy countries with a single breath and the closest we got is fafnir who says he can destroy entire Orleans region so he probably means france."

having said that fate strange fake has both country and continent level feats,so someone should probably calculate that.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

The feat is less of "fafnir can blow away France" and more of
"dragons can destroy countries with a single breath and the closest we got is fafnir who says he can destroy entire Orleans region so he probably means france."

having said that fate strange fake has both country and continent level feats,so someone should probably calculate that.

pretty sure we just had a thread of those being rejected since no one that isn't already tier 1 scales to them

 

[RetroWeeeb]

The feat is less of "fafnir can blow away France" and more of
"dragons can destroy countries with a single breath and the closest we got is fafnir who says he can destroy entire Orleans region so he probably means france."

I am aware. That was the exact logic I used in my original calc, to quote:

We can presume that this refers to the entire Orleans singularity as dragons in Fate have been stated capable of razing countries with their breath, and this attack from Fafnir was considered to be a "top ranking attack".

However, my argument is that this logic goes against the scene in question, which, as presented in the manga, only supports Fafnir wiping out the surrounding region of Orleans, not the whole country. There's also the fact that, from what I can remember (it's been a while since I read the manga), none of the characters ever refer to the singularity as "the Orleans region" or even "the Orleans singularity." Those are merely terms for the reader/player.

having said that fate strange fake has both country and continent level feats,so someone should probably calculate that.

I've got some other tier 6 calcs that I'll prob post at the weekend if I have the time.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

I've got some other tier 6 calcs that I'll prob post at the weekend if I have the time.

you mind telling me what the feats are? I could try calcing them if you don't have time

 

[PhantomØ4]

Since the first moment I saw that calc I always had that issue with it.

I agree with the logic of Orleans not referring to the whole singularity or France, it always made zero sense. Though it probably is referring to the orleans region instead of only city since the orleans region is an actual thing in France but whatever

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

bump

 

[Violetcyanide]

none of the characters ever refer to the singularity as "the Orleans region" or even "the Orleans singularity." Those are merely terms for the reader/player

I am pretty sure they refer to it as a singularity multiple times.besides fafnir's casual attack can burn a town and he can tank a Vasavi Shakti and balmung.he isn't going to use a city level attack as a final strike

I've got some other tier 6 calcs that I'll prob post at the weekend if I have the time.

Oh by the way,think you can calc This.

It's from Fergus vs hector in American singularity,you can get continental results from it.also I think we can calc emiya alter cracking bennu from ke of the meteor.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

I think we can calc emiya alter cracking bennu from ke of the meteor.

That's already been discussed here.

 

[Violetcyanide]

That's already been discussed here.

I fail to see where the ke of the meteor was denied.

We are given a set time period for the duration it takes bennu to travel from its original location to earth.using the time period,the closest bennu has to been to earth as distance,and the mass we can calculate the kinetic energy bennu has as a meteorite.

Just because Moriarty np was destroyed doesn't mean the meteorite itself lost all of its ke.

 

[RetroWeeeb]

I am pretty sure they refer to it as a singularity multiple times.

Admittedly, I don't remember if they use the phrase "Orleans Singularity" in the games, but in the manga adaptation that the feat/statement comes from, they never once refer to the entire singularity as the "Orleans Singularity", hence why the statement most likely refers to just the city / surrounding region.

besides fafnir's casual attack can burn a town and he can tank a Vasavi Shakti and balmung.he isn't going to use a city level attack as a final strike

DC =/= AP. Just cause Fafnir's attack was only going to destroy a city doesn't mean it can't have tier 6 AP. Plus, if we assume the statement refers to the surrounding Orleans Region, then its like ~6-C

Oh by the way,think you can calc This.

It's from Fergus vs hector in American singularity,you can get continental results from it.

The link isn't working for me, but I know the exact feat that you're referring. Fergus needed time to expand his NP in order to destroy the singularity, so IMO it would be something like 6-A overtime, but even if we assume an absurd timeframe like 10 minutes (the actual time is certainly FAR smaller), he would still need to output Low 6-B levels of energy per second.
I kinda forgot to blog this feat, so I'll do it later today.

 

[Violetcyanide]

Admittedly, I don't remember if they use the phrase "Orleans Singularity" in the games, but in the manga adaptation that the feat/statement comes from, they never once refer to the entire singularity as the "Orleans Singularity", hence why the statement most likely refers to just the city / surrounding region.

Fair enough

The link isn't working for me, but I know the exact feat that you're referring. Fergus needed time to expand his NP in order to destroy the singularity, so IMO it would be something like 6-A overtime, but even if we assume an absurd timeframe like 10 minutes (the actual time is certainly FAR smaller), he would still need to output Low 6-B levels of energy per second.
I kinda forgot to blog this feat, so I'll do it later today.

I feel like 1 minute is more than enough,considering hector was right there next to him and I highly doubt he was gonna wait 10 minutes while Fergus was down and was damaged.

We are given a set time period for the duration it takes bennu to travel from its original location to earth.using the time period,the closest bennu has to been to earth as distance,and the mass we can calculate the kinetic energy bennu has as a meteorite.

Think this might work as a calc for emiya alter?

,we can calculate the ke of the meteor and then subtract the energy needed to destroy Shinjuku to calc the energy emiya cancelled out.

 

[RetroWeeeb]

I feel like 1 minute is more than enough, considering hector was right there next to him and I highly doubt he was gonna wait 10 minutes while Fergus was down and was damaged.

Oh yeah, 1 minute is the better assumption. I was just pointing out that even if we heavily lowballed it, we'd still get Low 6-B results.

Think this might work as a calc for emiya alter?

Pretty sure Emiya Alter's NP is a form of dura neg, so...

Also in the thread linked previously, staff already denied the Shinjuku meteor stuff cause apparently you don't need to overcome its KE to destroy it.

 

[Violetcyanide]

Pretty sure Emiya Alter's NP is a form of dura neg, so..

How the hell are you gonna durability neg a meteor?

Also in the thread linked previously, staff already denied the Shinjuku meteor stuff cause apparently you don't need to overcome its KE to destroy it.

You don't need to to annihilate it's ke to vaporise it or destroy it.

However you are gonna need to annihilate it's ke if you are gonna fragment it.because law of conservation of mass and stuff means the fragments.

Emiya alter np explicitly only slashes or fragments it's never destroy the meteor merely slashes it into fragments.that mean no part of was destroyed meaning the shot itself was what cancelled the ke.

 

[RetroWeeeb]

Snip

Fair enough. I'll have to replay some parts of Shinjuku first before I attempt to calc it tho
Also

I kinda forgot to blog this feat, so I'll do it later today.

I may have to wait till tomorrow to calc the Fergus stuff, just realised there may be 2 ways of doing it

 

[RetroWeeeb]

I may have to wait till tomorrow to calc the Fergus stuff, just realised there may be 2 ways of doing it

Fergus Destroys America

vsbattles.fandom.com

Higher results then I initially expected, but I'm not complaining.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

Fergus Destroys America

vsbattles.fandom.com

Higher results then I initially expected, but I'm not complaining.

put the TNT value as well btw, use the chart on the calculations page to convert the joules into it.

 

[Violetcyanide]

Fergus Destroys America

vsbattles.fandom.com

Higher results then I initially expected, but I'm not complaining.

Shouldn't you use the radius from grand canyon to the edge of america.the calc assumes that the caladbolg started destroying America from its dead centre which isn't the case since it started near the grand canyon.

 

[RetroWeeeb]

Shouldn't you use the radius from grand canyon to the edge of america.the calc assumes that the caladbolg started destroying America from its dead centre which isn't the case since it started near the grand canyon.

The caladbolg feat 100% did not take place near the Grand Canyon.

We know from the in-game map that Edison's castle/base is situated within Denver, the manga clarifiers that Hector's group went northward from Edison's base to protect their territory, which is where Hector confronts Fergus and the feat happens. The Grand Canyon is south-west of Denver, so the fight did not take place there

The manga doesn't really give us any other details as to where the fight happens, hence why I just assumed the dead centre as to not artificially inflate the calc.