FF III party

[PaChi2]

[Low 2-C Luneth]


[3-A Arc]


[Low 2-C Ingus]


[3-A Refia]


All of them have the same reasoning of being equal to the warriors of darkness who can damage [Cloud of darkness, who is 2-C] and have different ratings for that (they should be 2-C for their ability to beat her, but that is not the topic here).

CoD's defeat by the party is a clear case of PIS, in which the protagonist, no matter the odds and how powerful the final villain actually is, beats the final boss. So, I dont know who changed the party into being universal busters, but this should revert back to their previous ratings (which I sadly dont remember).

 

[Reppuzan]

You're right about the scaling being off.

However, I heavily disagree with the notion of downgrading them.

The Final Bosses of RPGs like Final Fantasy are supposed to be ridiculously powerful compared to the rest. They're the driving force behind the story. Calling this victory PIS would call into question nearly every other RPG in existence.

 

[PaChi2]

I thought The Everlasting told me that this was a case of PIS? Maybe im misremembering.

Tho, in this case, the party got literally oneshoted by the CoD and after the help of the Dark Warriors they are able to harm her. This makes it even more questionable. Then, and Im honestly asking, shouldnt Bartz and co get the Tier 2, as well as Squall and the VIII party? Honest question.

 

[Dark649]

I'm not sure if we can give these stats to:

1) FF1 Party scaling to 4-A Chaos, who created a large numbers of stars in his dimension.

2) FF2 is ok.

3) FF3 Party scaling to 2-C Cloud of Darkness.

4) FF4 is ok.

5) FF5 Party scaling to at least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C from Exdeath.

6) FF6 Party is ok since Esper Terra matched God Kefka and other weaker party members were necessary to finish him.

7) FF7 is ok.

8) FF8 scaling to Low 2-C Ultimecia.

9) FF9 is ok.

10) FF10 is ok.

11) FF11 Party scaling to 2-C Shinryu.

12) FF12 Party scaling to at least 3-A, possibly Low 2-C Zodiark.

13) FF13 Party scaling to Low 2-C Bhunivelze.

14) FF14 is ok.

15) FF15 is ok.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Dark

I'm pretty sure 4-A Chaos is BS anyway.

@PaChi

It's an outlier for Squall and Bartz (And co.) because the boss' prior forms had nowhere near as much power as their final forms. Base and Griever Ultimecia are Galaxy level, then suddenly Time Compression Ultimecia appears and is Low 2-C, for example.

 

[PaChi2]

Okay then. 2-C III party.

I thought it was PIS, seems like it wasnt. Nvm.

And, sorry to repeat myself again (seriously, Im sorry), but... the XV stats arent right...

 

[Dark649]

@Dark
I'm pretty sure 4-A Chaos is BS anyway.

He did this through, also the currently Unknown FF11 characters like Shantotto and Shadow Lord can scale by being superior to the Massively Hypersonic Small Island level fodder called Lightbringer that destroyed Tavnazian Peninsula.

 

[Dark649]

And, sorry to repeat myself again (seriously, Im sorry), but... the XV stats arent right...

Do you think they should be High 6-A from scaling to the summons because Gilgamesh is not quite the same as the recurrent one right?.

 

[PaChi2]

Yes @Dark That gilgamesh isnt the one with the 5-A rating, High 6-A seems a more accurate thing unless there is something else to scale from.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Shinryu

Isnt creating the Dissidia realm a Low 2-C feat? Rather than a justification for the 3-C rating.

Edit: I was about to do the changes and upgrade the party to 2-C but it seems the profiles are blocked.

Edit: Also, lol, @The Everlasting Shinryu has precisely those resistances that were deemed game mechanics.

 

[Dark649]

The Dissidia reams seems to be made mostly of multiple stages and the world map, which doesn't seem to bigger than a galaxy, also i think Dissidia is not-canon to the main games apart from being a future where Chaos won. Canon FF1 Chaos was defeated by the party and not that he killed them, that is the Dissidia one, so that should be removed from Garland profile.

 

[PaChi2]

The Dissidia realm happens in the saame universe as the original FF iirc. But, anyway, can anyone unlock the profiles so I can make the changes?

 

[Dark649]

I put them at Block new part, if you can't modify them i will put them as allow all users.

 

[PaChi2]

The changes have been made.

If we are not going to discuss any other topic that was brought up (like the ff xv scaling), I suggest that this thread is closed.

 

[Dark649]

Ok, i'll wait for another comment, then i will close this.

 

[Witch_Bernkastel]

The Lightbringer is not a fodder weapon (or even a character, so calling it fodder is strange). Merely pulling it out of its sheath was able to cause that destruction. The only way you scale the Shadow Lord or Zeid off of it is by presupposing that they are already stronger than it in the first place.

 

[Witch_Bernkastel]

Karaha was confident that prime Fenrir was going to win the war for them. When we consider that Bahamut nor Diabolos were worried either, then you really can't scale Shantotto or the Shadow Lord to them.

Shantotto and the Shadow Lord are top tier relative to the population of Vana'diel as a whole in XI. Compared to just the named fighters, they are low tier. Zeid was able to stop the Shadow Lord on his own, but no one on Zeid's level (Shantotto, Klara, Domina, Belle, etc) have shown anything close to the Lightbringer's super casual output.

 

[Dark649]

I see, then what we should scale them from?. The other feat i can remember was the struggle of the two giant Shantotto.

 

[Schnee_One]

Sweet, some new matchups in mind thx to this.

 

[Witch_Bernkastel]

Shantotto and Klara have small building level feats. If you wish to use the XIV crossover, then you can as well. Low tiers like Shantotto have nothing really going for them in terms of feats or scaling in XI, especially since there's no point of comparison between them and the Lightbringer iirc.

Mid tiers get the first real feat with Diabolos.

Lilith is likely superior to the Shadow Lord and is certainly stronger when she absorbs Lillisette's goddess boost, so you can't scale back like that.

 

[The_Everlasting]

XIV is way too big of a mess to use with scaling.

 

[PaChi2]

I havent played XI or XIV, so I cant help with that.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@PaChi

I'm just saying that trying to use XIV for any kind of scaling is a horrible idea.

Considering how Lightning, Neo Exdeath, Omega, Gilgamesh and Cloud of Darkness are all bosses.

 

[PaChi2]

Consider them as a crossover. XIV original bosses should be the ones we use to scale, if anything.

 

[Witch_Bernkastel]

The XI party is steange to scale.

Adventurer (Adv) and Lion are in the lower tier scale in vanilla XI. Adv might get some good scaling in the Rise of the Zilart.

Prishe receives high multiversal scaling once she goes through the five lights, as does post-Phoenix merging Selh'teus. Adv is boosted at this point by the light from the mothercrystals and the five lights of blah blah. Let's remembrr that he loses the mothercrystal light after the fight. So Prishe and Selh'teus are stronger than almost all incarnations of the Adv.

Amphau isn't a fighter, so she gets no real scaling in Treausres of Aht Urgan. Adv did beat an Alexander-possesed machine, so he might get planet-level there.

Lillisette would get whatever Adv gets after ToAU and then some. Adv gets a goddess boost here.

Adv does not scale to Shinryu since he gets a vivification boost for bring from a different universe.

Arciela, Sajj'akka, etc in Seekers of Adoulin are likely getting ToAU scaling.

There are a few varitions of Adv in the future and in Rhapsodies of Vama'diel since he goes through a lot of power-ups. He goes from low multiversal to high multiversal. Iroha fused with a full-powered Phoenix is the strongest party member and the only FF characters superior to her are the Great Crystal, Altana, Promathia, the Void, and Neo-Exdeath. She is much above the likes of Shinryu, Sempurne, God of Light Adv, Metus, etc.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Since the thread's purpose has been reached, should it be closed?

 

[Dark649]

Maybe, but i'm also curious to see at which tier are the FF11 char since they are at unknown.

 

[Witch_Bernkastel]

Let's note how strong Iroha is:

CoD (III) = Atomos (can blow up two universes at once) < the Celestial Avatars (6 of them) < Volto Oscuro < (likely power gap into high multiversal) < Selh'teus ~ Prishe ~ CoP Adv < Promthia's vessel of Emptiness < Shinryu < power gap < Sempurne < Metus ~ God of Light Adv < Metus getting a boost from Sempurne < Metus and Adv getting a goddess power boost < Adv and Metus fusing to give us End of Game Adv < Iroha post-fusion with full-powered Phoenix < Altana ~ Promathia < Neo-Exdeath <~ the Void < the Great Crystal