Fate/Extella revisions/additions

[GalaxianAegis]

As I was playing through Fate/Extella, I noticed that some of our profiles aren't up to date with the current information. One profile that I know needs some attention is Altera's. In her base form with Photon Ray, Altera is capable of creating gaps and tears in space. She does this when appearing and it's also shown in the Extella Maneuver. Her White Titan state, also known as Sefar, is not listwd anywhere. Sefar is extremely powerful as she attacked the Earth during the Age of Gods. To get a gauge of its strength, Tamamo herself states that the Titan defeated Amaterasu and Mars here: https://m.imgur.com/a/pfVwU Thus, we could be looking at a 4-B rating for that state there. Sefar's roars are said to break reality and she distorts the arena you fight on. Archimedes and Elizabeth both state that she gets larger the more she destroys. In Nero and Tamamo's routes, you defeat Sefar with the power of Moon Crux mode which allows Servants to tap directly into the power of the Moon Cell using the Regalia. There's also Saber Nero as well, who after her transformation is stated to be on the level of a Divine Spirit.

How we decide to implement this information is up to discussion, but it seems to me that it hasn't been accounted for yet.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

It seems she really did defeat Amaterasu, so she should be given a new key.

I haven't played Extella. Do Tamamo and Nero defeat Sefar at full power? What's Gilgamesh's role in Extella?

 

[GalaxianAegis]

I don't know if it was the same power, but it seems unlikely. Sefar wiped out all civilization on Earth when she appeared. If she gets stronger by destroying more, she hadn't destroyed hardly anything except a small chamber.

Gil is in Altera's faction, but he's casual the entire time.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Are there any quotes for Nero after she gets that power up?

Also, I've been trying to get an answer on this for quite some time now. This is from Extella encyclopedia. Do you have any idea what this refers to, specifically which skill and what class? Cause it seems to me it's the beast class and their Independent Manifestation.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

I'll search for scans on YouTube for her once I get home.

I haven't seen anything that it could be there, but that's a possibility. It could have something to do with Velber as well.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Just post anything you find relevant or interesting.

If this can be interpreted as Gil having Independent Manifestation, that would be an upgrade for him as well. But it could also be just his regular "rule breaking" mechanic which we cannot quantify.

 

[KamiYasha]

Tamamo saying that the Titan defeated Amaterasu is probably a translation error.

The translations from reddit say that: Amaterasu didn't lose, she didn't even fight to begin with.

Even at her 7th form, Amaterasu still has a bigger powerlevel than the White Titan.

 

[KamiYasha]

@ThisIsMySwagPack

That scan is about Gil's independent manifestation, the class is "Beast Class" (Geotia, Tiamat, etc).

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

@Kami

So Gilgamesh really does have Independent Manifestation? Isn't that a bit crazy? And at what rank is it, if it's ever been addressed?

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

7th form Alters should definitely be 4-B as we agreed on in the Nasuverse Top Tier revision. Not sure where base Sefar would be since apparently the main reason she beat the Gods was because of her ability to absorb magical energy to grow stronger and tankier, which would wreck the Gods since they use True Ether to use their abilities which is classified as techniques and absorbed by Sefar.

She also didn't beat Mars actually she beat the concept of war or the prototype war god, who has a special divine construct prototype, and since apparently pure magical energy and physical strikes can beat her it becomes a close fight but since she already absorbed and beat basically everything Proto Mars losses and she takes the sword. After which a holy sword forged by the planet is used against her and one shots her.

It is pure speculation to think Gil had independent manifestation so it would be better if we wait for Extella 2 which has been confirmed IIRC.

EDIt: Ok nwm seems like it was confirmed that Gil has independent manifestation.

 

[KamiYasha]

IIRC it was never addressed.

Even though Goetia is a Beast Class and he should have that skill, it's not addressed either on his FGO profile.

The only ones addressed with that skill so far are Merlin, Tiamat, Kiara and Shiki (for some reason).

Maybe gilgamesh having it is a hint (wink wink) of him being a possible Grand Servant.

Acording to the translations: The Skill is normally exclusive to the Beast class, and potentially Heroic Spirits that qualify as Grand Servants.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Should we add it on their profiles? Though I am not entirely sure what it gives them. Immunity to time-paradox I guess, which would still be a great upgrade. I doubt Gil would be omnipresent across space-time the way Tiamat is due to that skill. I would like to hear what Repp think as well.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

I think we should wait since we know next to nothing about it besides that one scan.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Well he can't have lower than rank E of that skill and Kiara with rank E still has immunity to Time Paradox. But we'll see what other think.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Even if Sefar didn't beat Altera, she still beat several other Divine Spirits and has the capacity to absorb that much energy and keep growing. Regardless, changes do need to be made to the profiles indicating what level she's at.

Are Extella English translations generally inaccurate, or is this just one issue?

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Altera definitely needs another key for her Titan form . Her ability to absorb magical energy/techniques needs to be added along with her ability to grow stronger, when she destroys something and absorbs it as spiritron information. Altera in her base form should get her space cleaving ability.

Extella had some mistranslations some were important and triggered the people at beast lair.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Agreed @Ramesses, how do you think we should handle the Moon Crux mode for Tamamo and Nero since they need the form to beat Sefar in game?

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

My apologies for the late reply. I'll come up with the scaling for Base Sefar, Moon Crux Mode and Saber Venus once I have time.

The Moon Crux makes them strong enough to barely damage her with her defenses. But the main reason you can defeat her is because the Moon Crux being able to shut down her defenses which makes her vulnerable, and that she is only in her base form due to only destroying and absorbing half the battlefield. So they don't get fully scaled since they are not actually comparable to her.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Ok, there are statements that Sefar is still able to destroy the Moon and Earth in her weakened state, would those be applicable?

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Can you post those statements?

 

[GalaxianAegis]

I'll get those statements and Saber Venus ones up soon.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

I apologize, I'm not able to get scans for a while because of my current internet situation. Do you have any ideas for the scaling? @Ramesses

 

[John985]

If you guys are going to update Altera, then you need to update karna too, because he was able to defeat Sefar in his side story.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Side stories shouldn't be taken as the main canon as their events are tailored to the Servant in question. Only the main routes should apply.

 

[John985]

It was one of the possiblities that could happend. Because the ending of Karna side stories the tree at the ending is still moving.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

We already accounted for that in his profile, it was heavily implied he one shot Sefar with Shakti but we don't know how strong Sefar was hence his likely much higher with Shakti.

Anyway @Galaxian I'm working on it, I'll be done in a few days.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

I've done some research into Saber Venus, and I've been able to discover some think thanks to Type Moon Wiki.

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Playable_Saber_(Fate/Extra)#Saber_Venus

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Charitas_Domus_Aurora#cite_ref-6

She has these stats, though I believe that they're only but so applicable because she uses Altera's Photon Ray as her main weapon as well as the fact that her Noble Phantasm is an Anti-World Noble Phantasm. Charitas Domus Aurora allows her to summon her previous NP, Aestus Domus Aurea, to immobilize the opponent and then she strikes by using Photon Ray to generate several magical circles before firing.

http://imgur.com/a/HXkbN

More statements about the process itself, and it seems to be analagous to the way Heroic Spirits are summoned as there is a catalyst and everything. It's essentially Venus being given manifestation through Nero.

Playing through more of Altera's route, it's pretty much guaranteed that Sefar beat the gods by snowballing mana from everything she destroyed to the point that she became nigh unstopable. Pretty impressive that Arturia was likely the one to stop her, but since we know it has restraints similar to Excalibur Proto due to Fate/Grand Order, it's likely she unleashed its full potential there.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Bump

Do you have anything yet @Ram ?

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

I have been doing some Irl stuff so it has been delayed a bit, the other servant revisions aren't helping much either. But so far I think The Velber Shard, Saber Venus and Base Form Titan Altera/Sefar is going to be At least 5-A or even High 5-A. Moon Crux Mode is going to be At least 5-A or High 5-A for barely scratching Sefar.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

I'll post the reasoning tomorrow.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Ok cool

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Base Sefar/Base Titan Altera is going to be At least 5-A higher with more energy absorbed for being barely scratched by the Moon Crux Mode which is powered by the incomplete Regalia(power/authority over the moon cell). Since beings with authority over the Moon Cell like BB and Kiara are 5-A. Weakened Base Titan Altera could also stop the momentum from the Velber Shard which was going to destroy the Moon Cell core as well so I think that solidifies a at least 5-A rating.

Saber Venus could destroy the defense of the Velber Shard(which the Moon Cell could not) and is even stronger than the complete regalia moon crux mode. So she would be At least 5-A as well.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Velber shard was going to destroy the Moon Cell core? Who wrote Extella?

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Nasu did. It has been established that Velber>Moon Cell multiple times. Moon Cell observes the Earth and Velber observes The universe by destroying everything it finds intelligent. I mean there is a reason the Moon Cell is so scared of Velber it actively jams the Velber shard's system to prevent Velber from finding it.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Nasu is screwing up his verse through some weird circle-scaling.

 

[Antvasima]

So, have you reached any conclusions here?

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Velber is hyped up to be a high level threat, but Tamamo herself thinks that Amaterasu can beat them.

@Ram Those look good, I'll try and sum up everything that's presented in this thread so we can all see if we agree.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

So here's what we have so far:

Altera: Spatial Slicing in base form. I don't know if this is good enough to warrant a durability negating note, but it's definitely confirmed that it can make tears in space itself. Titan Altera is going to be at least 5-A, higher with more magical energy absorbed. As far as hax goes, I believe that she deserves Pocket Dimension Manipulation because she's capable of changing the space she resides inside in the Zero Dark at will. Magic Absorption should be added as well. 7th Form Altera is 4-B for having a power level near Amaterasu herself.

Tamamo: At least 5-A with Moon Crux due to barely scratching Sefar.

Nero: At least 5-A with Moon Crux due to barely scratching Sefar. Saber Venus is at least 5-A for destroying the armor around the Velber Shard and the direct power of Venus is within her. Her Noble Phantasm is also an Anti-World Noble Phantasm.

I think that's all that's been discussed formally here for the revisions, does everyone agree with what's been presented along with the reasonings?

 

[Reppuzan]

These seem fine, but it should be noted that Altera's Pocket Reality Manipulation has not displayed combat uses (please correct me if I'm wrong). In addition, since Altera was manipulating Spiritrons rather than matter, I think it would still just fall under Pocket Reality Manipulation.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

@Repp She did deteroriate the dimension of her throne room when she became Sefar in the story, but it didn't show anything else other than that.

Also for everyone, are these characters getting the Hypersonic/High Hypersonic speed ratings as well?