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Matthew_Schroeder

VS Battles
Retired
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Felt like doing this. Going to share a bunch of blogs contained calculations from Fantastic Four comics and list the results here.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats.19534/

In the very first issue, Reed Richards catches a nuclear missile, a feat calculated at Mach 2.327645725 and then tosses it into the sea, which wielded a throwing speed of Mach 70.67501249 to Mach 75.37688442.

On issue #4, Johnny Storm creates a tornado that pulls Namor and his sea monster from NYC to the Marianas Trench, calculated at a speed of Mach 64.25891641 and a calculated KE of 7.664232928e21 joules, or 1.831795633 teratons. A casual feat for early Johnny Storm.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-part-2.19535/

On issue #6, Doctor Doom flies with a rocketship who's speed was calculated at 0.2727627189c. This is important because Namor was able to catch up to the ship.

The calculated reaction speed of Namor doing this means that he can react to an attack with a speed of 1.980253552c if it's coming from 10 meters away.

On issue #13, the Fantastic Four spaceship reaches the moon in a lowest possible timeframe of 30 minutes, giving it a speed of Mach 626.9162577. Johnny Storm easily kept up with the spaceship.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-part-3.19540/

On issue #24, Reed Richards, Ben Grimm and Johnny Storm all react to meteors pulled by an alien's telekinesis. The meteors had a calculated speed of Mach 1812.21899, and the calculated reaction speed means that they could react to an attack with a speed of 0.1034136144c if fired from 10 meters away.

Using an extreme lowball and assuming that the meteors only had the speed of an average re-entering meteor (17 m/s) means that they could react to Mach 2511.529544 attacks from 10 meters away.

On issue #30, Johnny Storm flies through a mountain melting a hole in it, calculated at 344.1199448 megatons

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-part-4.19542/

On issue #38, The Wizard flies to space so fast that Johnny can't track him. The calculated results range from Mach 6969.937406 to Mach 1393.987481.

On issue #54, Ben Grimm could throw a baseball so fast that it could make a titanium bat buckle. The speed necessary to cause this was calculated at Mach 88.65991834'.

On issue #62, Blastaar is strapped to a rock and send to an area of the Negative Zone where antimatter collides with positive matter. The rock hits the antimatter atmosphere and is annihilated. This was calculated at 782.78354 gigatons, and Blastaar wasn't harmed at all by it.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-part-5.19565/

On issue #64, a Kree Sentry robot creates a tsunami by punching the ground. The end result was 4.061852029 tons, but keep in mind that it was just the side-effect of the punch from 100 meters away.

On the same issue Johnny Storm melts a trench for water to fill in, calculated at 22.06650208 kilotons

On issue #75, a starving Galactus sends a planetoid on a collision course to earth, and Reed states that it would atomize half the continent. This was calculated at 3.793974232 exatons

On issue #78, Johnny casually vaporizes a machine, calculated at 349.1324378 tons

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-part-6.19566/

On issue #91, Ben Grimm breaks a slave block strong enough to anchor a Skrull battlecruiser. The energy to do this was calculated at 1.431564356 teratons, and Ben logically exerted more force than this to break it.

On issue #92, Ben resists and breaks a hydraulic press that can push through a planet, calculated at 8.68027432 megatons. He was weakened when he did it.

On issue #100, a running-low on power Johnny melts the inside of a small mountain, calculated at 165.0414074 kilotons.

Also on issue #100, a Namor-android causes a tsunami that empties the sea along the shore, calculated at 18.290063.9 megatons.

On issue #102, Namor easily intercepts a missile, calculated at Mach 22.64734981

On issue #103, Ben Grimm spins his arms creating a whirpool that manages to draw Namor in with the suction. This feat varies from 109.6941404 megatons to 13.67778194 gigatons depending on how fast Namor was swimming (Since no calc-stacking is allowed, he used the stated Handbook speed of 5, which is "Supersonic: peak velocity between Mach-2 to Orbital Velocity approximately 17,000 mph")

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-part-7.19579/

On issue #104, Crystal covers the skies with clouds to distract Magneto, with a timeframe of a "split second". Calculated at 5.402559627 gigatons.

On issue #106, Johnny flies into space quickly, result ranging from Mach 390.3729172 to Mach 1171.118752.

On issue #109, Johnny flies from the Negative Zone opening to Annihilus' planet. The result is Mach 151.5668009 for the low-end, Mach 606.2672035 for the mid-end and Mach 3031.336017 for the high-end.

On issue #116, Doom intercepts a psionic blast from the Over-Mind, which was calculated at 1.363640541e18c, though the feat might not be legit (Depends on how fast you are willing to accept the Marvel speed of thought for telepaths is).

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-part-8.19580/

On issue #127, Mole Man is building drills to the Earth's core to release molten iron to burn the entire surface world, calculated at 381.9379175 teratons.

On issue #129, Ben holds an ICBM against the force of its engine, calculated at 50.51585331 megatons to 561.287259 megatons.

On issue #134, Dragon Man flies from Pensylvania to Queens NYC, calculated at Mach 14.23295816

On issue #146, Johnny overcomes the freezing rays of Ternak's "climate cannon", which had the power to freeze the Earth. This was calculated at 28.05078872 petatons, an Johnny was weakened.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-again.19758/

On issue #167, Hulk and Thing smash two helicopters in a "split milisecond", which wields a speed of Mach 22.51877219.

On issue #169, a human and powerless Ben Grimm moves faster than the eye can see, calculated at 78.0436231 m/s. Ben without powers is just an average peak human in the Marvel universe.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-part-2.19780/

On issue #175, the High Evolutionary's evolution ray hits Galactus across space. The beam was calculated to have a speed of 94,608,000,000,000c

On issue #181 Annihilus takes Reed Richards from the Negative Zone portal to his base "within moments". On issue #182, Mad Thinker uses a tractor beam to pull his android at the speed of light away from Annihilus' base towards the portal.

The android moved at the speed of light for at least 23 hours, 2 minutes, and 5 seconds, so the distance was at least 24,860,289,580 km. So Annihilus flew at speeds of 2764.1666667 - 82,925c depending on the timeframe.

On issue #195, Johnny casually dodges flak bursts, calculated at Mach 30.14022548.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-the-third.19951/

On issue #208, a Xandarian teleportation beam transports Johnny from Earth to Xandar in "a heartbeat", using that as a timeframe gives a speed of 93,451,680,000,000c.

Also on issue #208, The Sphinx drains a star, calculated at 1.305031166e47 joules, or 31,190,993,450,000 yottatons.

On issue #210, Ben Grimm and Sue Storm deflect meteors, with the low-end of their reaction speed being calculated at 0.00001799290802 seconds

On issue #220, Vindicator flies past the horizon "in an instant", calculated at Mach 11,898.01491 - 0.1350526143c. This was before he got the powerup that made him Guardian.

On issue #221, Ben casually smashes an alien crystal tower, calculated at 5.445117688 megatons

On issue #229, Ben Grimm knocks back Ebon Seeker and nullifies his momentum. For those who don't know, The Seeker is a sentient black-hole with pretty much all the properties of a real one (Well, aside from being humanoid in shape and sentient).

So using the Schwarzschild radius calc to figure out Ebon Seeker's mass as 4.480915908e27 kg. Depending on how fast he moved in the scene, he produced a KE of 51.42772034 exatons to 309.5087709 yottatons. I would be willing to use a mid-end that would wield 5-B results, myself.

On issue #234, Ego devastates the Earth with a gravity pulse, calculated at 49.95219885 petatons. Bit-feat, though this was just a probe send by an extremely weakened Ego.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xf...bit-feats-the-third-part-2-final-tally.19953/

On issue #235, the weakened Ego flies to the core of the sun with Ben Grimm and detonates himsel, calculated at 2.022401476 yottatons. Ben survived this.

On issue #249, Gladiator contains a Srkull-ship explosion that could destroy half the solar-system, calculated at 2.323741127e43 joules, or 5,553,874,587 yottatons. Gladiator didn't just tank this, but redirected/absorbed it to protect the solar system, and showed no signs of being harmed at all.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-issues-251-300.20360/

On issue #256, Ben plays pinball with asteroids (Really), calculated throwing speed at Mach 3197.234124.

On issue #257, Nova heeds Galactus' call crossing light-years pretty much instantly. Low-end of 2 light-years equals a speed of 63,072,000c.

On issue #260, Sue Storm contains an explosion created by Surfer and Tyros, calculated at 332.2484789 gigatons

On issue #264, it's stated that Johnny's Nova Flame could heat up the core of the Earth and make the crust of the earth burst, covering the planet in lava. This was calculated at 79.42676549 petatons

On issue #269, Terminus fires a beam that is "half a mile wide", the crater was calculated at 151.1584254 gigatons.

On issue #270, Terminus blasts a crater "nearly a mile wide", calculated at 292.4 megatons. Reed Richards wasn't hurt very much by it.

Also on issue #270, Reed's device drives Terminus into the core of the earth, calculated at 260.9286654 gigatons. Terminus wasn't hurt by it, just trapped and eventually dug his way out.

On issue #292, Reed tanks the antimatter explosion of his spaceship, calculated at 2.728185952 gigatons. Even the weakest Fantastic Four is Island level.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xf...c-four-bit-feats-issues-251-300-part-2.20361/

On issue #296, Mole Man's machine will raise an island the size of New Zealand and sink California into the sea. Calculated at 44.22764816 teratons.

On issue #297, Reed reverses an alien ray that's draining the sun, absorbing the aliens' planet into a black hole gravity vortex, sending it through their red giant star and out through the sun. The two aliens tank this and merge into one being along the way.

The massive low-end of all of this is 53.58800353 zettatons. Note that the alien tanked all of this without a single scratch, and Ben Grimm laid a smackdown on him in the same issue. Moar 5-B Thing.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xf...c-four-bit-feats-issues-301-350-part-2.21609/

On issue #324, Kang's machine manages to stop a planetary alignment by slowing down a Mercury-sized planet. Calculated at 127.2705545 ninatons.

On issue #335, Human Ben Grimm blitzes a gunman before he can react, calculated at Mach 0.4052190778. Marvel peak humans for you.

On issue #339, Gladiator is able to move at hyperspeed to compensate for time dilation caused by the universal time bubble. His speed was calculated at 1,798,369,413,000c.

On issue #341, Sue's forcefield protects her and Johnny from a Shi'ar weapon that could "release the total binding energy of atoms" (Hello Saint Seiya), calculated at 22.67526324 exatons. This actually matches with plenty of other feats that Johnny and Ben Grimm have.

On issue #349, a Skrull states that if a Skrull device self-destructs it will create a crater 1200 km in diameter, calculated at 2.984202381 petatons, pretty impressive for Skrull-tech.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-issues-351-400.22000/

On Annual #24, Reed Richards reacts to Galactus' FTL blasts which had a minimum speed of 188,585,280c, and his reaction was calculated at 3,416,536,661c. This is an obvious outlier, but still fun to calc and chart.

Also on Annual #24, Korvac reacts to the beams as well, an estimated reaction time of .19034999e-18s. Unlike Reed, this isn't an outlier.

On issues #367-368, Sue reacts to and contains the blast of a gamma bomb, wielding a reaction time of 0.00005744619365 seconds.

On issue #378, a weakened Sue blocks a blast from Devos that was stated to be able to kill everyone in a 5-block radius. This ranges from 3 kilotons to 110 kilotons.

On issue #382, Paibok's ship is described as "crossing thousands of light-years in mere instants", wielding a speed of 31,546,000,000c. This is relevant because back on issue #259, Gladiator was able to keep up with and pursue a ship using the same technology.

On issue #392, an alternate Galactus used his Elemental Converter to eat the energies of an alternate Earth. The narration specifically says that it transformed the very oceans into pure energy, so he obtained 30.007307003 ninatons of energy.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xf...eats-issues-351-400-part-2-final-tally.22001/

On issue #398, Ben weaves the Skrull stealth-hawk ship through a barrage of Inhuman missiles, calculated at Mach 561.5736022, giving Ben a reaction-time of 0.000008242975333 seconds.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-issues-401-vol-3-21.22235/

On issue #413, the Silver Surfer travels light-years in seconds, calculated at 31,536,000c as an absolute minimum.

On Vol 2, issue #4, Black Panther reacts to an explosion giving him a speed of Mach 21.67639662. We actually already use this calc.

On Vol 3, issues #1/2, Mole Man's "tremor trigger" weapon devastates Manhattan, calculated at 5.09082218 megatons.

On Vol 3, issue #1, while traveling at over Mach 10, Johnny, Ben, and Reed's "electromagnetic meson velocirator" device get caught up in a large snowball, which Sue stops effortlessly. Not only is this a reaction feat of Mach 10, but also wields a result of 49.29346747 tons.

On Vol 3, issue #12, a black hole grenade consumes Crucible and Ayesha, calculated at 3337.353846 tenatons.

On Vol 3, issue #13, Ronan creates a black hole. This is in a simulation, but it was created to test Ronan's actual powers and he has created black holes in reality too, so that's no objection. The feat wields 1585.239336 tenatons, High 4-C.

On Vol 3, issue #16, the Kree Iron Man absorbs and redirects Johnny's attack, breaking one of the Acanti ribs in the process. This was calculated at 28.152488 gigatons, and was mostly Johhnny's doing.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xf...-four-bit-feats-conclusion-of-volume-3.22505/

On Volume 3, issue #32, a powerful sea monster, just by surfacing, causes a lot of damage. This was calculated at 6.698052172 gigatons, and Sue one-shot the monster.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-issues-500-550.24409/

On issue #527, due to an error in his machine, Reed views an alien civilization at an accelerated rate, but is still able to perceive their individual movements and understand everything that is going on. This wields a reaction speed of 2.401661485c to 12.00830743c. Also an outlier, but is hilariously the second FTL feat Reed has.

On issue #535, unspecified FF enemies destroy a decoy house and the missiles incinerate everything in a half-mile radius. This wields 470 kilotons, and these same weapons were considered worthless against the Baxter Building's defenses.

On issue #537, all of the FF tank a lightning-blast from Mjolnir. Sue didn't use any force-field to shield the team, and the final result is 231.0108928 kilotons.

On issue #539, Spider-Man webs some missiles, calculated at Mach 5.052137539.

On issue #545, Storm draws hydrogen from space to surround Surfer, calculated at Mach 65.18635298.

Also on issue #545, Stardust hits Black Panther with a very weak blast that knocks him down, but he survives. Scaling the crater gives a result of 0.5741863068 tons, which is Building level.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-bit-feats-issues-550-600.24677/

On issue #557, Reed's Anti-Galactus suit costs a billion dollars per second to run. Electricity is priced in kilowatt-hours, and applying the average price for kilowatt-hour in the US means that the suit is spending 7.052628279 megatons worth of energy per second. This is just to keep it operational.

On issue #567, The Marquis of Death destroys Latveria in a huge explosion, calculated at 18.7 gigatons.

On issue #569, amped Johnny Storm reaches the Planck Temperature, which was calculated at 1.3502350768337e122 watts or 1.3502350768337e78 FOE. This is an absurd level of 3-A. Not only did Marquis of Death survive this, but amped Sue Storm also protected the other FF members from Johnny's blast.

On issue #578, Johnny flies to a Negative Zone planet and back in under 5 minutes, calculated at Mach 1443.474683 to Mach 3608.686708.

On issue #583, Johnny burns up all the oxygen in Sue's forcefield surrounding the High Evolutionary's citym, calculated at 1.280869644 megatons.

On issue #586, the Taa II warps to Nu-World, calculated at 33,788,571.43c. Consistent with the Silver Surfer's previous "light-years in seconds" feat.

On issue #587, Annihilus' bugs are stated to cross 250,000 km in 4 minutes, meaning they move at Mach 3061.11454. Makes sense since on issue #578 they could chase Johnny Storm.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/fantastic-four-strange-tales-bit-feats-part-1.24866/

On Strange Tales issue #101, Johnny outraces an "atomic-powered guided missile", which should be at least Mach 23.

On Strange Tales issue #104, Johnny escapes a nuclear detonation, calculated at Mach 21.89309119.

On Strange Tales issue #107, Johnny Storm goes supernova, reaching the temperature of an exploding star. Calculating that means that Johnny Storm was releasing 1.103845939245e33 joules per second, or Planet level. He kept this up for 120 seconds.

https://forums.hero-academia.com/xf...ales-bit-feats-part-2-plus-final-tally.24869/

On Strange Tales #112, Johnny flies to the stratosphere in the split second before the nuke he's carrying can explode, resulting in Mach 67.58940903

Johnny Storm also absorbed the nuclear explosion, calculated at 34.86496831 megatons

On Strange Tales issue #120, Iceman created an iceberg, calculated at 199.8775998 tons. Scales to his bulked up form.

On Strange Tales issue #126, The Ancient One teleports Doctor Strange to his home in "the wink of an eye", calculated at Mach 75,734.67749

This basically wraps up all the feats.
 
Well, if all of the feats have been accepted by the OBD, I have no problem with applying the results.
 
Well, feel free to update the pages accordingly, but remember that the revision project must eventually encompass all of our Marvel profiles.
 
Also, whenever you insert a link to an outside calculation into our wiki profiles, remember to save the link to the Wayback Machine archive, in case it will disappear at some point in the future. It helps to avoid the risk of crippling our content:

https://archive.org/web/
 
Okay. I still have to update the OP with more feats, but in general the changes would be:

Reed Richards would be Island level.

Johnny Storm would be Continent level, and Planet level with Supernova (Based on a feat that I've yet to post on the OP)

Ben Grimm would be Planet level based on his own feats and scaling from Gray Hulk.

Sue Storm would be at least Island level by her own feats, likely Planet level scaling from Johnny and Ben as she's supposed to be the most powerful Fantastic Four.

Also everyone would be MHS or MHS+ due to several feats that wield at least Mach 100+. I think Johnny Storm would be way faster. I think that the Sub-Relativistic we currently have is good, just remove the Supersonic+
 
Okay. That seems fine to me. The only concern is that we have to start updating all of our Marvel profiles for the sake of consistency.
 
I meant that the project of updating them must continue, as the current handbook scaling is confusing in combination with disparate individual feats.

Anyway, Namor and Colossus should scale from the Thing, yes. Possibly other profiles as well.
 
I suppose so, but again, you should preferably stick to this project until all of our Marvel profiles are revised.
 
I'm guessing Annihilus would scale to this stuff too?
 
These are pretty good to use since we're not going by the guidebooks much now.

Seeing as this is all made from Endless Mike, these should have no problems being added from where I'm seeing.
 
@Promestein

I would have to ask someone with more knowledge, but Annihilus seems pretty superior to the FF even at base, seeing as how he has MFTL+ feats.
 
Okay. Well, he could probably either scale to At least 5-B or High 5-A or something.
 
I feel like I'm the only one interested in making a page for the High Evolutionary.

I'm not complaining about that, I'm just saying it feels weird.
 
A quick glance through respect threads reveals that Annihilus knocks out The Thing pretty consistently and even shatters Sue's forcefields. And he has plenty of FTL feats in combat as well as his Massively FTL+ travel feats so he can be straight-up MFTL+
 
The Everlasting said:
I feel like I'm the only one interested in making a page for the High Evolutionary.

I'm not complaining about that, I'm just saying it feels weird.
I'm interested too but I'm not in a good mindset to read through his appearances right now.
 
He's so intelligent it's downright scary.

He literally has the total sum of all human knowledge committed to memory.
 
Okay it's time to debunk EM, I guess.

Reed Catches a Missile

Main problem here is that he says that it's an AGM-12 even though AGM-12s can't make turns that sharp. And, even if they could, doing so would slow them down considerably. They would not be anywhere near their top speed of Mach 1.8.

The next problem is that he inflates the distance Richards needed to move considerably by assuming that the government was going to literally destroy New York with a 500 to 15 Kiloton warhead for literally no reason instead of using a much smaller tactical nuke. He then inflates the timeframe by assuming Johnny's Flame went out instantly and Reed had 1 second to do all of this.

Johnny Storm Creates a Tornado

The speed here is actually fine, no problems with that. It's pure flight speed only though. The AP, however, is super messed up. He uses an incredibly skewed perspective to have the monster's head be some 40+x bigger than the boat's width based on the fact that the boat is basically flat to the camera and as such is only showing a few pixels of its width. He should've scaled the length instead, as what he did right now inflates the monster's size considerably.

Namor and Meteors

The way the results are being applied is wrong. Their. relative speed to Doom's ship is effectively 0 m/s, Namor could reach Doom at a leisurely pace of 1 m/s if he so wished. Saying he was travelling at 0.27c on his own is wrong. This is even noted in the blog.

The reaction speed is wrong too. We do dodging things from a 1 meter distance, not 10. This would make Namor's reaction speed 0.2c, not 1.98c.

Finally, depending on the angle and velocity of the meteors this feat could be much much lower so I'm not too entirely comfortable with using it.

Johnny Storm Keeps up with a Ship

The problem here is that speed is conserved. He isn't moving at Mach 600 on his own power, he's moving at Mach 600 because the ship he was in was moving at Mach 600. This is the equivalent of walking across a pole set up between two trains and saying that makes you 200 mph in walking speed.

FF Reacts to Meteors

Meteor reentry speed isn't 17 km/s, it's 11 km/s. And, again, we don't do over 10 meters we do 1 meter. Redoing this would mean they can react to an attack moving at Mach 162.54, not 0.1c.

Johnny Storm Melts a Mountai

Here he assumes he's melting through the whole mountain even though on-panel it says he only melted through the peak and we can clearly see that the hole made is only maybe 4 meters wide at best.

The Wizard Flies Into Space

The problem here is that he assumes the Wizard must fly all 2371.8 km faster than Johnny can react. This isn't true. In order to fly into space faster than Johnny could react to him he would only need to move out of Johnny's field of view or far enough away that Johnny can't make out his shape anymore. Assuming he travelled the entire distance in 1 second is an extreme high-ball.

Ben Throws a Baseball Hard Enough to Dent Titanium

We don't use speed from KE, simple.

Blastaar Tanks 782 Gigatons

While the math itself is fine, if a highball, I think the assumptions here are wrong. It's fairly clear that the "antimatter" here doesn't operate like real antimatter. If it did it would not matter what Blastarr's durability was, he would've been instantly converted into energy. Antimatter explosions ignore dura.

Kree Sentry Robot Punches the Ground

I can't find anything wrong with this right now. This should be fine.

Johnny Storm Melts a Trench

The problem here is that this is the additive power of the feat. This was done over time, as can be seen in the scan. If he wanted the J/s he should've measured how far the wave was from shore and then figured out how long it had to hit at 10 m/s. Assuming even something as low as a minute lowers the feat to just 367 Tons of TNT.

Galactus Atomizes North America

This one is fine too.

Johnny Vaporizes Half a Machine

This one is pretty fine as well. Only nitpick is that he assumes it's 100% solid. While it definitely is mostly solid I think 70% would be a better estimate, especially since, being a machine, it's going to have lots of fragile wires in it and such.

Ben Grimm Destroys a Slave Block

EM assumes that it can anchor a warship that's moving at a very high speed for... some reason? Generally when anchoring a ship you want the ship to slow down. While 11 km/s is a low-end for the ship's speed, that's completely irrelevant to the speed they'd be moving when anchoring.

Ben Resists a Hydraulic Press

He assumes that to press through a planet you need to be constantly exerting 8 Megatons of energy all the time. This isn't the case. This is how much you would've exerted at the end of the whole ordeal, sure, but in order to press through a planet you only need to exert enough force to destroy the hardest thing in your way and then keep that up.

Johnny Melts the Inside of a Mountai

He, I assume as he's pretty vague about where he's getting his figures from, assumes Johnny melted the inside of the mountain. This isn't what happens. On-panel Johnny says that he is heating the inside until the pressure builds so it erupts. So not only was this feat done over time, but he also assumes that the mountain was melted even though we can clearly see it's perfectly fine just fragmented in a few places from the eruption.

Namor Intercepts a Missile

Here he assumes a timeframe to get a higher result rather than just using the fastest torpedo known in the 1960s. Plus, Namor doesn't "outpace" the torpedo like he says. He just swims in front of it until it hits him.

Ben Grimm Makes a Whirlpool

He assumes Namor is swimming at the speed the guidebook lists him as for seemingly no reason. While the feat is impressive, assuming Namor is swimming at supersonic velocities is unfounded.

I have to go tutor for now, but I'd appreciate it if any changes could be held off for a bit given only like 3-4 of these calcs so far make reasonable assumptions.
 
I actually have several problems with your "debunking" and don't consider your points to be very valid, but I'm don't have much energy right now. But I don't think revisions should always be held off simply because you don't like them.

It's much better to act democratically and take in account the number of staff that are fine with the changes, and the fact that the calcs were accepted on Narutoforums which allows us to use them too.
 
>Don't think a nuclear warhead can slow down while making sharp turns, in addition this is comic-book science so whatever there. The assumptions he makes are based on what the comic says, so he's making far less assumptions than you and are thus preferrable, since you are applying headcanons and he isn't

>Johnny Storm' feat isn't "just flight speed". Johnny is a speedster and he is well known to react at top flight speed. Really don't see how the size of the sea monster is inflated other than you saying that he used a scan which "inflates it". There's absolutely nothing skewed about the perspective, it literally shows the monster right next to the boat, behind it. And he did scale length as far as I can tell.

>No Namor couldn't. There's no relative speed here, he was literally hopping from meteor to meteor and reached Doom's ship. And 0.2c is still a great reaction feat, and Endless Mike is a generally better calcer than anyone on this website so I would trust his math over yours.

>No, Johnny wasn't on the ship. He was keeping up with it from outside.

>Meteors actually have a typical fall speed of 17 km/s. 11 km/s is simply the minimum impact velocity. And for distance just divide it by 10 and we're good.

>You are eye-balling, he calculated the size of the hole meaning it's accurate, the complaint is irrelevant

>No it's not, Johnny couldn't react literally, as in he literally couldn't see him despite being in his field of vision, which makes the assumed timeframes reasonable as they are based on human reaction time

>Except that this feat is entirely dependent on how fast he'd throw the baseball, as there is no other way it'd obtain the KE with his throwing in any other way.

>I don't see how it is a high-ball, Blastaar could simply endure the antimatter due to having some sort of resistances to it, as he was able to survive in a place with antimatter atmosphere and the like. The rock was completely destroyed so the antimatter clearly affects matter normally.

>Johnny Storm's trench feat is a bit-feat so whatever. He is scaled out of the issue #4 feat which is also fine.

>The implication is that it could anchor the ship while it is trying to fly or escape, keeping it pinned down. Ships aren't anchored by slave blocks, so the only logic would be that it would be forcibly anchoring a ship.

>That isn't his conclusion at all. ._. He simply calculated the pressure and mass of everything and the end-result is that Ben Grimm exerted that amount of force during the full feat.

> Johnny obviously melted the insides as he flew through them which provoked the explosion. You can visibly see the insides melted on the first panel. The outer parts of the mountain being fragmented have nothing to do with the inner parts that were melted.

>Namor did outpace it, he moved at speeds faster to reach the torpedo before it hit atlantis, and even outright stated that he was faster than it. It's on the scan. And the timeframe he assumed makes sense with what's going on on the screen and it's perfectly possible for the comicbook torpedo to be faster than real world. The Marvel Earth has better tech in their 60s then we do now

>It's not absurd, it would be unfounded to say that Namor was swimming at regular speeds since his swimming speed is far faster than normal and can do things like swim from the ocean depth to the surface in short timeframes, or swim continental distances in a short timeframe. Using the lowballed handbook speed for Namor's speed it the best compromise.
 
@LordXcano:"And, again, we don't do over 10 meters we do 1 meter. Redoing this would mean they can react to an attack moving at Mach 162.54, not 0.1c."

I haven't checked anything else, but that statement cought my attention, so I looked at that one just in that regards.

Actually we don't do 1 meter either. Unless one does involve a reasonable guess or a scaling on the moved distance, we would just list reaction time values (well, I think those are calculated over the 1m thingy, but still technically a difference).

So Sub-Relativistic Perception for his result and Massively Hypersonic perception for yours.

It's more a technical detail then anything else, but I thought I would point it out.
 
@DontTalk

I believe the reason that Endless Mike used 10 meters is because the Standard OBD Assumptions policy that they have places opponents on a distance of 10 meters from each other during the start of fights.
 
I'm back.

Crystal Covers the Sky

This one is okay.

Johnny Flies Into Space Quickly

This one is alright too.

Johnny Flies to Annihilus' Planet

I'm really confused as to what's going on here. Johnny flies through a portal and to Annihilus' planet, that's fine. But why is he using a shot to scale the distance to Annihilus' planet from a completely different issue? That isn't the distance from the portal to the planet, that's just the distance that they happened to be away from it one time.

Doom Intercepts a Psionic Bolt

The speed of telepathy =/= the speed at which psychic blasts move. Both come from the mind, yes, but both are different in nature. Just because the origin is the same doesn't mean their properties are the same.

Mole Man Releases Molten Iro

I can't see anything wrong with it as of now, but I'm not sure why this is particularly relevant since it scales to nobody.

Ben Holds an ICBM

This is calc-stacking, which he somewhat addresses in his post. I'd also like to see how in the world he got nearly 7000 km/s speed for an ICBM.

Dragon Man Flies From Pennsylvania to Queens

He assumes the narration is saying that Dragon Man flew from Pennsylvania to Queens based on the dialogue. This isn't what it's saying. It's saying that within all the actions described in the box Dragon Man can fly "several miles". I also believe that he severely underestimates the time it takes for:

"A phone to be answered, a message relayed and a worried husband to take to the smog laden skies."

I mean just reading that alone takes me about a tenth of a minute, actually doing it could easily be 2 and a half to 3.

Johnny Storm Overcomes the Climate Canno

This assumes the climate cannon would make the entire world colder in one shot rather than over time. It's obvious this isn't the case as otherwise:

1. Ternak would've just shot it right at the start

2. Even with Johnny countering it the sides of the beam still exist and are still cold, that would've had drastic effects across the world

Hulk and Thing Smash Two Helicopters

Don't see anything wrong here.

Human Ben Moves FTE

Same here, nothing wrong.

High Evolutionary Shoots Galactus

EM says that using a human reaction time for this should be reasonable, and then says that the human reaction time is 1/120th of a second. Seeing as how I cannot dodge bullets with utmost ease, this is obvious malarky. At best I could see you using a second for this feat. I'm not sure why it matters anyway though, as nobody reacts to it.

Annihilus Takes Reed to His Base

Several problems here, and they all have to do with space. Everything in space is moving, that includes the rock Reed was on, Annihilus' base and, likely, the portal (or else it'd be well outside the solar system by now). Given all this, using an instance where they are 23 light-hours apart and using that as reference for another scene isn't acceptable.

As a real world example of what I mean, each second our Solar System moves nearly 600 km away from where it was last. A stationary asteroid in space would appear to be moving over 30 km away from us every second. Some galaxies are moving away from us faster than light. And so on and so forth.

Johnny Dodges Flak Bursts

This meets neither ours nor EM's standards for something to not be just counted as aimdodging, so I'm wondering why he calculated it in the first place.

Xandarian Teleportation Beam Speed

This is fine, but it doesn't really scale to anyone anyway so.

Sphinx Drains a Star

He mentions how people keep bugging him about e=mc^2, and he's totally right to be bugged about that. Lets say that the Sun keeps up its current energy production from now til it's death, and has been doing this for the last 4.5 billion years it existed.

That's 9 billion years the Sun will live. Solar luminosity is 3.828e26 W. Just multiplying those two figures gives us a total lifetime energy production of 1.086e44 J. This may seem familiar to you, that's because it's basically 1 Foe and (as far as I'm aware) it's supposed to be like that.

Regardless, this amount is 2.596e34 Tons of TNT, or 25,960,000,000 Yottatons. This is not even 1% of what he calc'd, and this is a high-end for the feat.

Ben and Sue Deflect Meteors

This is entirely dependent on the relative speed of the meteors to the ship. Asteroids move at 25 km/s in space, but that doesn't mean they are moving at 25 km/s towards them while they are stationary.

Vindicator Streaks Past the Horizo

Nothing wrong here on first glance.

Ben Smashes a Crystal Tower

Only objection I could say here is that Ben is completely shocked he was able to do this, which either means this is a high-end for his strength or, as he guesses in the text, he just got lucky and hit a flaw in the tower.

Ben Stops Ebon Seeker

I think EM summarizes most of my problems with this calc in his own calc.

"The Seeker was a living black hole, with pretty much all of its properties (aside from being sapient, humanoid, and controlling it to a degree, of course)"

But of course there's also the unrealistic property of Ben being able to punch a black hole.

Ego Levels Every City

Don't see anything wrong here.

Ego Detonates Himself in the Sun's Core

Aside from the problem of us not knowing where Ben was in relation to the explosion (aside from "likely close") there's also the problem that EM assumes the entire planet detonated even though we see in the previous panel that a good 60% of it had already been destroyed by the Sun.

Gladiator Tanks a Half-Solar System Destroying Explosio

Nothing wrong here.

Ben Plays Pinball with Meteors

Again, 11 km/s, not 17 km/s. That won't lower the result much. Otherwise it should be fine, but the art is a little weird so I'll probably want to read the issue first.

Nova Heeds Galactus' Call

Nothing wrong here.

Sue Storm Contains an Explosion From Tyros

She doesn't. Like, right on the page. It shows her holding it back for a few seconds, straining herself, and then ultimately failing. Plus the justification for sub-atomic destruction is off. Reed states that Terrax was blasted into sub-atomic particles, not the ground and everything in it.

Conveniently enough though, I've been reading through Terrax's apperances and Reed is speaking hyperbolically here. While Terrax does "die", it's later revealed he was just reduced to a pile of barely sentient dirt, he was not sub-atomized.

Johnny's Nova Flame Can Destroy the Crust

While both figures are fine, there's no real reason to add them together. Lifting magma from the Earth's core to raise the surface 3 meters would already destroy the surface, there's no reason to add the frag value to it.

Regardless though, that just lowers the result to 41 Petatons.

Terminus' Signature

This, like the trench feat, is also done over time. We can clearly see on the panels Terminus didn't do this in one shot, but EM adds up the total destruction as if it was done in one shot.

Terminus Makes A Mile Wide Crater

This is fine.

Reed Traps Terminus In The Core of the Earth

EM, again, treats the entire destruction as if it happened at once. The device would only need to evacuate the material directly in front of it, not all the material at the same time.

Reed Survives an Antimatter Explosion of His Suit

This is fine.

Mole Man Raises an Island

The 33 Teraton result is fine, but there's no reason to also add fragmenting California to the feat. The destruction of California is a side-effect of the island be raised.

Aliens Merge Through a Star

Nothing wrong with this as far as I can see.

That's all I'm doing for today since that's like half the feats. So far I think the only acceptable ones are:

  • Johnny Vaporizes a machine - 349 Tons
  • Galactus atomizes NA - 3.79 Exatons
  • Kree sentry makes a tsunami - 4 Tons
  • FF reacts to meteors - Mach 162.5
  • Crystal covers the sky - 5.4 Gigatons
  • Johnny flies into space - Mach 390 to Mach 1171
  • Mole Man releases molten iron - 381.94 Teratons
  • Hulk and Thing smash 2 helicopters - Mach 22.52
  • Human Ben moves FTE - 78 m/s
  • Xandarian teleportation speed - 93,451,680,000,000c
  • Vindicator flies past the horizon - Mach 11,898 to 0.14c
  • Ben smashes a crystal tower - 5.45 Megatons
  • Ego levels cities - 49.95 Petatons
  • Gladiator survives a 1/2 solar system destroying blast - 5,553,874,587 yottatons
  • Nova heeds Galactus - 63,072,000c
  • Johnny's Nova Flame - 79.43 Petatons
  • Terminus' mile wide crater - 292.4 Megatons
  • Ben plays pinball with asteroids - Mach 3197.23
  • Reed survives antimatter - 2.73 Gigatons
  • Mole Man raises an island - 33.4 Teratons
  • Umbra tanks a planet collapsing - 53.59 Zettatons
 
Well, I am afraid that I think that LordXcano's evaluations seem reasonable, and he is just doing his job as a calc group member by handling this, so I would appreciate if everybody stay polite towards each other.

We can also scale the Thing, Namor, Colossus, and per extension the Invisible Woman, from the Grey Hulk's 5-B feat instead, so it is no disaster.
 
I was fine with one of the two 5-B Thing feats anyway, you could scale him from Grey Hulk and the calc if you wanted.
 
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