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Ok. So. I have some buffs for fallout I want to get through. As this verse I say is far tougher than it's put at. So let's do this starting with strength and durability. What they survive and can give off (since their AP does scale since they can kill each other. I'll be going over Fallout 3, New Vegas, and 4. Which I believe they all should roughly scale to each other, due to being able to fight the Brotherhood, who has the strongest armor and tech, and is in all of the games. So saying they are around comparable in AP and durability seems fitting at least.

Strength/Durability

Starting this off. We have this

Fallout nuke feat. This ones a little smaller in power. But Moira, from fallout 3 was rather close to the nuke that went off in megaton if you chose this ending. And she is someone even at the start of the game is Fodder next to you. Too the point you can one shot her with your bare hands if you wanted too at later points in the game. Not entirely massive since she had some distance to the nuke. But, it's a feat to have on the side at least.

Next

Codsworth and Vault Tech Guys nuke feat. At the start of the game. When you run to the vaults. Codsworth stays at the house throughout the entire time your gone. Which means that he had to have been it when the nuke drops and destroys the neighbor hood. We know he never left as he brings up that he did stay there the whole time. And we know that the nuke reached all the way to their town, as off you don't run to the Vault, or if you run a different direction, the nuke drops and you die immediately. (Which no, it isn't a game mechanic). As well, the town is utterly destroyed by the bomb. His body at most is a little dented. But that is about all. This increases Codsworth durability, and in everyone's attack, via being able to Hurt or kill codsworth. This is backed up by many people who survived the nuke and some were simply just turned into Ghouls. Including the second part. The Vault Tech guy. Who is seen right at the fence before running back into town, then the nuclear bomb goes off and kills most people. We see him later in the game and see he has survived. Both of them survived said nuke which destroyed the neighborhood. Not only him, but several others do survive the nukes, and even at much closer range, and only turn into ghouls due to radiation.


Ok. Here's a big one for Fallout 4

Prydwen crash feat. This feat is when the Prydwen during the Minutemen ending, crashes after being shot down. This offers 3 important feats

The vertibirds in base, and in the Prydwen survived the resulting explosion (as does some of the brotherhood). Which these are both located exactly where the blimp crashed and blew up, and literally hanging on the outside of the blimp. Aka. They were dead centered in the explosion and survived the explosion unscathed.

As well, the vertibirds come flying to your locations (dozens upon dozens of them). Meaning two things. Either the brotherhood survived the explosion, got in the vertibirds and attacked. Or they just so happened to be inside the vertibirds. And as unlikely as the second one is. It still scales to durability, as the vertibirds have no doors at the side. Just one gaping hole that offers no protection. Meaning regardless too wether they were inside or not, they survived that explosion as well, and it scales to their durability. Even assuming it just scaled to armored up people. Sole Survivor is able to destroy the Veritbirds and kill the brotherhood. Armor or not. This scales to Fallout 3 as well. Why? Because, the time difference between fallout 3 and for is very small. There was no implied changes in tech. And we even see the power armor and tech the brotherhood had prewar. Meaning that the same vertibirds that Lone Wanderer can shoot down, are comparable to the ones that survived that Prydwen crash. We even know this is the Same Brotherhood from the Wasteland As the leader "Elder Maxon" was the kid at the Citadel in fallout 3. Meaning, it's fair to assume it would scale into Fallout. And there's more supporting this. Liberty Prime since his original version can One Shot Vertibirds into almost nothingness. And his newest version is an upgraded stronger version. Sole Survivor is able to survive laser blasts from him. He can take a few before dying. While Prime is still much stronger, that's still some supporting evidence on this type of durability.

As well, an important bit of info.

Liberty Prime survives this. Once the blimp has crashed and you finish the fight. Going over to the destroyed base, you'll find Liberty Prime Still active and walking around. (Which is intended as brought up on the wiki even) "Liberty Prime will survive the fight and will keep patrolling the Boston Airport. "

So this does scale to the Prime too.

This would upgrade the Vertibirds which Liberty Prime casually can destroy with a shot or two of his lasers. And the sole survivor can take multiple hits from the lasers. So that would be an upgrade due to tanking this explosion to the entire verse, and the Sole Survivor also tanking these lasers, and prime also being able to one shot vertibirds.

And one more important thing.

Liberty Prime one shots the Prydwen . In the synth ending, Prime is fully able to one shot it out of the sky and cause it to crash and explosion With a single laser. This would upgrade his Attack, and defense, as well as Sole survivors, as at his peak, he can tank a few of these lasers. So not only does prime one shot vertibirds. One laser shot down the prydwen as an whole. Even more support that this level of durability scales to the verse, since surviving prime shots is possible. This likely scales to the other verses like New Vegas as no heavy time passage is suggested, and no advance in technology that would make them suddenly more durable. So two surviving near Nukes feat, and the brotherhood, Prime, and the vertibirds all surviving the prydwen crashing onto them and exploding, and Prime can cause the crash by one shoting the thing in the first place. All really nice feats. And grow more consistent.

But we aren't done. Let's get to the good stuff in Vegas

In Vegas. The Lonesome Road, oh boy does this add more.

Ulysses, Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles feat. Ok. Here's the big ones. In the Lonesome road DLC, the courier runs into a man called Ulesseys. Now, two very notable feats are the. And one interesting statement


One. Fact he can survive detonating the Nuclear Warheads around the divide. (And courier can canonically kill Ulysseys) The fact he confirmed he survived the Multiple ICBM detonating. It was confirmed it was more than one, and is the reasoning for the divide being the way it was. So it had an extreme essential part of the plot. Ulysseys survives the multiple Missiles, and even though he needed medical attention, the fact his body was not completely destroyed, and we see his body fully healed without as much as a scare that we could see from it. It makes the feats Extremely impressive. But that's not all.

Two. There are Nuclear Warheads laying all over the map. you can set them off, and they won't kill Ulysses. It takes quite a few to hurt him. This does help support his claims of surviving the nukes going off. And if that doesn't satisfy you enough

Both the NCR and Caesars legion survive nukes dropping on them. At the end of the DLC, you can choose the Fire the nukes at NCR, Caesars Legion, or both. And then you can go explore the land that you shot the nukes at. Going into the both, several dozen soldiers just survived the nukes and are irradiated. But survived. And I don't mean one or two. I mean several soldiers. You have to kill groups of them as you go along the place.

And finally. This is a statement from Ulysses about the nukes. That "it only took a few to rip apart the earth, the crust, the sand"

This could potentially offer more. But it may be poetic. I'll leave that up with others to decide and look at.

This is a buff towards Wanderer, Sole Survivor, Courier, And Liberty Prime. As well as the rest of the cast to a lower degree.

Ok. So that should about cover the Strength and Durability. Just a lot of nuclear stuff and surviving it. Next is


Lifting Strength

Now, we have their lifting strength at Athletic Human for Far too long. Yes, they can't carry past the 500 pound mark without losing their ability to run. But that doesn't stop them from lifting more. Now we obviously shouldn't go on the logic they can continue to carry infinite since the pip boy will let you do that. But no human could lift up to 500 pounds and can still run and jump a few feet up. Peak to Superhuman is an at least. Also should take note, Sole Survivor can causally break people's necks. Most characters can smash limbs apart with their hands with a strong enough strike, and The Courier downright rips people's heads off in the NCR mission where you need to retrieve certain raiders heads. So Class 1 honestly the best option. their lifting strength has been limited on something it shouldn't have.


Next.

Stamina

They are vastly higher than just Peak Human. Even after being shot yo and on the verge of death, they can wander the wasteland with little to no food or water for days and survive. The Wanderer and survive being in extremely deadly radiated environments,

That should be all. Now onto Speed.


Speed

Two real important feats here. Dodging Gamma, and Dodging Microwaves

1. The Lone Wanderer And other characters in Fallout can dodge the Mesmotron shot. Which the Mesmotron is just emitting our Microwaves. This as well supported with the stronger version of the gun in the Fallput harbor DLC, "The Microwave Emitter"

at 0:45, they can dodge the microwave emitter. At almost point blank range. An extreme speed buff. There's also the feat of being able to do the same dodging in Fallout 4 with the Gamma Gun. Which has already been discussed to be light speed. And there is the Holorifle in Fallout New Vegas, also capable of dodging in the same manor. So dodging some light speed weapons at very close range. Good upgrade. And pretty straight forward.


Abilities

1. So Lone Wanderer has the Mesmotron. A device which messes with someone's brain and makes them stuck in a La La land like state. Confused, and even just handing stuff over to you if you tell them too. This is a form of Mind Manipulation and can Bypass durability, as there is a chance that the wave may actually just cause your brain and head to explode entirely. (Specifically Only Wanderer)


2. VATS actually does give what is essentially Time Stop, not just Time Slowing. How do we know this, A Terminal in Fallout 4 actually talks about VATS. And specifically brings up it can slow someone's perception of time and even stop it. This is supported by the fact even light speed weapons like the Mesmotron or Laser rifles are at a Standstill when in VATS. the reason 4 differs Is due to the different type of Pipboy The Wanderer used compared to the Sole Survivor. It's likely Wanderers is more advanced as getting his much later in a vault that could Keep up. Where everyone else in the vault died near the start of the war. So the Pipboy Sole survivor picked up, was one of the earliest generations of Pipboy, or at least less advanced. This also scales to Courier 6 who shares the same pip boy.

For the quote itself

"An altered sense of perception that mimics the effect of slowing, or even stopping, time." "


3. Stat amps via health items. Very straight forward. Buffout makes you stronger, Mentats make you smarter, psycho makes you stronger. Ect ect. General basics you expect in a game.

4. Regenerationn. They can cripple (essentially break) limbs. Including arms, legs, and their skull, which they can heal from with items. High-Low to Low-Mid regen with items. And his natural regen heals bullet and stab wounds. It should really just naturally be Mid-Low regen. And High-Low Regen with their perks (All characters since all share the same healing items and healing abilities)

Edit

A few things that also qualify for Wanderer that was pointed out in another Thread.

Energy Manipulation and Energy Projection: Uses a plethora of laser weapons and Alien weapons

Plasma Manipulation: Uses Plasma Weapons

Immortality: Type 2; Can have his arms, legs, ribs, and skull broken and still walk around and fight.

Immense Pain Tolerance Can walk around with multiple broken bones and his skull broke. with no signs of pain whatsoever and perform most actions unhindered

Limited Radiation Manipulation Some of his weapons emit radiation

Healing: His healing can restore much of his health and repair broken bones

Fear Manipulation: With the terrifying presence perk he can easily intimidate and terrify many enemies in the wasteland easily making them flee, can make heavily armed Brotherhood Of Steel members wimper in fear just by talking to them

Explosion Manipulation Has multiple explosions

Light Manipulation: his Pipboy can act as a flashlight

Fire Manipulation Fire weaponry

Electricity Manipulation: Has multiple electrical weapons

Enhanced Senses: Has extreme perception being see if bullets are in a gun and being able to spot enemies from far away, can detect invisible enemies in VATS


So all together. Fallout should be in for a lot of buffs.
 
You should ask the active members listed in the Fallout verse page to comment here.
 
Fallout nuke feat. This ones a little smaller in power. But Moira, from fallout 3 was rather close to the nuke that went off in megaton if you chose this ending.

She was out of town when that happened

Lone Wanderer: The bomb in town just blew up! You're lucky to be alive!

Moira Brown: Wow! Who would have thought a town built around a bomb could be so dangerous? Good thing I wasn't in town at the time, huh? Man, that could have really done a number on me!

She also says this

Lone Wanderer: I have no idea. I wasn't even here. <Lie.>

Moira Brown: Same here! I had just gone down to Springvale to do some tests -- turns out you can't teach a giant ant new tricks -- and before I knew it, boom!

So she wouldn't scale to the nuke in any capacity.

When you run to the vaults. Codsworth stays at the house throughout the entire time your gone. Which means that he had to have been it when the nuke drops and destroys the neighbor hood

Only a single bomb hit Boston and that was on the literal opposite end of the entire map. This scales in no way to durability.

Liberty Prime survives this. Once the blimp has crashed and you finish the fight. Going over to the destroyed base, you'll find Liberty Prime Still active and walking around.

This doesn't make any sense, since in that quest Liberty Prime is barely active and can't even move. You only get him working in the Brotherhood quest line with after convincing Madison to come back to the BoS

And the sole survivor can take multiple hits from the lasers.

Even if he can, that's a solid game-play mechanic rather than an actual feat. I'll detail it down below but Power Armor is in no way shape or form that strong.

Prime is fully able to one shot it out of the sky and cause it to crash and explosion With a single laser.

Its not. The blimp is full of hydrogen that's easily flammable. That's how you blow up the ship in the Railroad quest with some small explosives.

Even after being shot yo and on the verge of death, they can wander the wasteland with little to no food or water for days and survive.

Game-play mechanics. Canon survival modes showcase the characters need to constantly eat, drink, and sleep to survive.

It's likely Wanderers is more advanced

The Pip-Boy 3000 is canonically an older model compared to the Sole Survivor's

Lone Wanderer: It's all right. Seems kind of old, though.

Stanley Armstrong: Of course it is. Just like everybody else's. They don't make 'em any more now, do they? That one I've been saving just for you, though. The A series is a bit heavier than some of the fancier models, but it won't let you down. I bet you could drop a bomb on one and it would still work. As a matter of fact, I know you could.

Power Armor sorta sucks in all honesty

The BoS lost over half of their Mojave chapter to a bunch of poorly equipped NCR soliders just due to more people and more guns

Ramos: I'm sure someone's told you all this before. Several years back, we were running our chapter out the HELIOS One solar power station. Our Elder at the time, Elijah, had some kind of obsession with the place. Which is the only reason we stayed as long as we did. That place was hardly defensible, and we knew the NCR was moving in on us, but the Elder refused to budge, insisting that he just needed "more time". We never found out what he needed the time for. Wave upon wave of NCR troopers hit us from all directions. We held out for a time, but we were grossly outnumbered, and they had more men than we had ammo. Eventually our positions collapsed. Elder Elijah was nowhere to be found, so McNamara took charge and led what remained of us on a counter-offensive west. We lost a lot of men and women, but we broke through and made it here. Make no mistake, McNamara saved this chapter that day.

According to West-Tek's own ZAX T-51 (the best Pre-War armor outside of prototypes) can only withstand 2,500 joules

The T-51b powered infantry armor is designed with the latest passive defense features for both civilian and military disturbances. The back-mounted TX-28 MicroFusion Pack generates 60,000 Watts to power the HiFlo hydraulic systems built into the frame of the suit. Made of the latest poly-laminate composite, the T-51b shell is lightweight and capable of absorbing over 2,500 Joules of kinetic impact. The 10 micron silver ablative coating can reflect laser and radiation emissions without damage to the composite subsurface.

A ton of BOS PA soldiers died to random mines and explosives with the suits utterly destroyed

According to Danse's computer multiple soldiers died to gunfire and explosives

Log 012287-1

After several months, my squad has just crossed the border and entered the Commonwealth. We've chosen to immediately search the Boston region with the intention of finding a secure building to use as our recon headquarters.

Soon after, my squad was ambushed by Raiders. Knight Keane's Power Armor was destroyed and we lost some of our supplies. Fortunately, we were able to repel the attack and continue our mission.

Log 042287-3

As we approached, our squad was hit with gunfire. Knight Worwick was wounded, so I decided to fall back to Cambridge. During our retreat, Knight Brach stepped on a landmine. Scribe Haylen attempted to treat him, but Brach succumbed to his wounds and died. Let it be noted for the record that Haylen is to be commended for her efforts.

Medical File WR-113K Knight Worwick

Suffered multiple GSW to the leg and torso. Was able to extract most of embedded bullet shrapnel. Patient lost approximately 2 quarts of blood. Was able to supplement with emergency blood packs. Torso wounds caused massive internal bleeding. Attempted to implement internal sutures but facility is insufficient for surgery of that magnitude.

Due to patient's pain and quality of life, commanding officer ordered me to administer overdose of painkiller for euthanization purposes. Dose administered 49 hours after incident. Subject died peacefully.

Medical File BR-122K Knight Brach

Medical File BR-122K Knight Brach Subject stepped on explosive device causing catastrophic trauma to left and right legs, severe trauma to torso and left arm and major trauma to right arm and chest. Rapid response triage used to cauterize open wounds, administered multiple Stimpak) meds but damage was unrecoverable. Patient died approximately 3 minutes after incident.

Protect Ingram was permanently crippled from a 100 foot fall

Ingram: I was fighting with the Brotherhood in the Capital Wasteland. Worked at a staging area for the Power Armor troops. Our position was along a ridgeline overlooking the battlefield. I'd say it was a hundred foot drop, give or take. To make a long story short, the ridge I was standing on took a hit from a nuke. Sheered most of the cliff right off and caused the platform I was standing on to tumble over the side. If I hadn't have been test-piloting one of the Power Armor suits at the time, I would have died."

Jumping from Trinity Tower is enough to utterly destroy Power Armor

McLaren got his suit wiped out trying to drop from the top of Trinity Tower, so the current record holder is still Petris with his Prydwen-to-ground drop. Remember, no leg armor mods allowed, just a clean jump with standard T-60 and you have to be able to walk away. No exceptions.

The fact we keep them at 9-A in durability is honestly a stretch in my view and I'm completely against any AP upgrade.
 
@Qawsedf

Thank you for helping out, but your last post is rather messy. Could you clean it up a bit?
 
Yeah I messed up a lot with the quote stuff. I've edited a lot of the boxes down.
 
Anyway, I trust Qawsedf's sense of judgement.
 
Actually I will say that considering the computer does explictly mention it was made to be laser resistant the writer probably meant 2,500 kj rather than just 2,500 joules. But even then the Lyons' BoS noted they could just remove some limiters and normal laser weapons would cut through Advanced Power Armor Mark II

Lone Wanderer: So... Any thoughts on the Enclave?

Peabody: So they have Plasma weapons! Bah! It's strong technology, I'll give you that, but limited in modability. I've already started removing the compensators on our laser weapons to cut through the black devil Power Armor of theirs. We'll drop them like any other meat, don't you worry.
 
I know this is a few days old and this feat is probably now an outlier considering all the stuff Qawsedf brought up but in fallout 4 Deacon survives an attack that vaporizes 4 to 6 synths and based off Spider-Man (Raimi Spider-Man Trilogy) that could get building level results (Deacon says that he survived due to his power armor). Laser Rifles can also vaporize Mirelurk Queens and Mother Deathclaws which are much larger than the creature we currently used for our Fallout vaporization calc. Also there are bullets in Fallout made it destroy power armor (the pulse rounds) so people in power armor getting shot to death doesn't really seem like that big of a contradiction. Granted if those are outliers or maybe gameplay mechanics that's fine but I've been meaning to make a thread on upgrading Fallout for a while and after seeing this thread I really wanted to get that off my chest. I can go get a video of the synths being vaporized and Deacon surviving soon if you want.
 
@Qawsedf

So what should we do here?
 
I will say, I've been meaning to make my response. I'll have to give a more details one in a bit. But this feats are just heavily contradicted by in game feats. A normal bullet has enough force to splatter someone's skull which is 100,000 Joules. Lasers can vaporize Metal, mortars shoot down things like the Prydwen. So these lore statements are heavily contecicted by feats actually shown in game. 2500 Joules. A normal bullet in this game is several dozen times stronger. Stuff like that heavily prove against these statements as they have survived way worse.

And I should also mention. Falls are probably the second most inconsistent thing there is across most fiction on the damage it causes. People leagues above Wall level are scared of Falls. And can take injury on them. That's easily labeled as PIS. If a standard bullet from even a pistol is able to pop someone's arms, legs, and head both off and into pieces, that's far more consistent as any character can do it, it's not a gameplay mechanic as clearly being intended, and much more reliable than a inconsistent statement that's highly irregular even to the feats we currently scale them too.

We should really go off of what's most shown. Not statements on a computer that are inconsistent with even the most basic and common feats. Cause what this current argument is, is just calling the gameplay of the game itself game mechanic. Which simply shouldn't be used.
 
Antvasima said:
@Qawsedf

So what should we do here?
Keep the ratings as is honestly. Canonically we know a laser rifle can vaporize a human, canonically we know that standard kinetic bullets are capable of damaging PA, canonically we know large falls and explosives can lead to PA being crippled or outright destroyed. We also know that PA can resist both plasma and laser weapons canonically, the eyeslits can withstand large caliber SMG ammo, and that the early BoS we're untouchable by raiders and the NCR in small engagements due to superior armor.

Attempting to upgrade it based on stuff not verified or pre-placed will only lead to weird results like Low 7-C radroaches because they can withstand a laser pistol or something.

Also there are bullets in Fallout made it destroy power armor (the pulse rounds)

The pulse pistol is a EMP weapon that short circuits the armor with a energy attack. EMP rounds (such as the slugs in Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics) don't do any extra damage to PA afaik. The pulse grenade for example does not harm PA more than normal since the armor doesn't get short circuited.
 
Okay. I think that your analysis seems to make sense. Should we close this thread then?
 
Low tiers like Radroaches would definitely not scale. But the main characters would. even from the start of the game, you can beat those things to death with a single strike. And they definitely don't survive laser attacks.
 
GojiBoyForever said:
What about the other stuff?
Stamina, lifting strength, and all of the powers besides Regenerationn look good to me. I'm not for any PC having relativistic combat speed.

Low tiers like Radroaches would definitely not scale

A laser pistol can still cause the same mentioned vaporization effect on any creature no matter the size, and a radroach can survive a hit from it. Which was my point about how we shouldn't freely scale non-scripted events to everyone since it will lead to issues. Not only with lore but including game play itself.
 
But we can't just completely ignore gameplay and the weapons attacks. By this logic, we need to debuff several verses. Verses like DOOM. Looking at Lore stuff, it's just as contradicted. Normal bullets are able to blast people's skulls to bits. And creatures are able to mutilate bodies. These attacks tend to be stronger than what lore suggests. Like somehow armor only able to take the 2500 joules. When even a normal bullet provides enough force to reach 100,000 Joules. These guns can and will provide these amounts of forces. And the fact people, even lower ends can take it more supports that this verse is tougher. Look at other verses, even weak af things in the real world like Bugs in games like hallow knight reach Small Building. And it comes through gameplay. Not scripted events. The scripted events in fallout don't really support even a standard bullet in Fallout.

Example. Borderlands has a scripted event where Roland dies to a bullet. A main hero at that. Yet things like that don't debuff the verse. Cause the standard feat which is done extremely often in game (The loafers being shot from space to pandora) is done way to often, and other feats just would downright prove that one wrong.

Another thing I can bring up. Strength side, Fallout is very strong. Courier 6 can take people's heads off in a mission. Physically rip them off.
 
But we can't just completely ignore gameplay and the weapons attacks.

We can and do if it contradicts the lore of the series. Since that's the canon of the universe, not a game that has artificial limitations placed on it.

By this logic, we need to debuff several verses. Verses like DOOM.

Most of DOOM's higher ratings come from lore. DOOM also doesn't have as much in-universe written stuff as Fallout does.

Normal bullets are able to blast people's skulls to bits.

Doesn't mean anything when most of it isn't from a scripted even or canon scene. The Courier survived a point blank headshot due to look and the pistol being low caliber. The vast majority of guns use IRL ammunition and the universe is shown to use IRL force measurements like joules or kilotons.

The scripted events in fallout don't really support even a standard bullet in Fallout.

So the canon, hand made events of the game by the devolpers. Along with the in-universe scientific and first person evidence contradict random gameplay elements.... and the lore is wrong? That's not how the site should do things or does do things.

Strength side, Fallout is very strong. Courier 6 can take people's heads off in a mission. Physically rip them off.

Only after they're dead where any number of things could happen to remove the head. But as I said before I do agree that's probably good enough to justify a Class 1 lifting strength rating for him.
 
Even if it's using ammo based on IRL ones, doesn't mean the force is the same. A event that supports it is missions like Boone's where he specifically always shoots whoever you put in front of the dinosaur, and blasts their head into pieces.

Another thing that's in fallout lore is mutants being able to mutilate people's bodies.

Heck. Another main lore thing, which is pretty essential on Couriers story, is the Ulysses feat where he survived ICBM going off. Somwthint that creates the divide to be the way it was. And also courier being the guy who delivered the thing that set them off (iirc. Which is why Ulysses has issues with him).

Another scripted event is literally shooting nukes at people at the end of the DLC, which they survived it.


Lore doesn't alone just show the very low ends. It shows different areas. There are plenty of events in fallout that would go against the weaker of the lore.
 
Ulysses wasn't in the Divide when it exploded. The Courier was out of town when it happened as well. Neither would scale to it. Even people in the Divide might not scale for the same reason every atomic bomb survivor isn't suddenly a town buster.

Lore takes priority over gameplay if they contradict and the gameplay contradicts how strong various weapons and armors are. Which is why I'm totally against an upgrade.
 
Yea he was in it, I recall he talked about it and even brings up it did almost kill him.

And this lore is contradicting to what they are at now. You even brought up there was 2500 Joules statement for armor. As well, my point on falls being extremely inconsistent across fiction. Falls and Guns. Both are very inconsistent in the realm of fiction.

The fact that guns can damage armor doesn't say anything unless we actually scaled the guns to IRL ones which doesn't work. Their feats are above them. These guns scale above normal guns. Most of those lore things you bring up are just weapons destroying them. Which weapons are supposed to scale cause they can kill them.
 
Weapons that have

  • IRL ammo equalivents
  • IRL gu equalivents
  • Use IRL force measurement numbers
Disagreeing with the lore and thinking things are stronger than they are due to gameplay hype does not mean that we ignore developer intentions for the sake of massively highballing the entire verse. I'm just totally against any AP upgrade for this reason. There's zero indication that's how it was meant in-universe.

Which is why Fallout 4 has not one, but two instances of a high fall destroying PA. Why PA has consistently been shown to be broken or damaged by guns. Why the Brotherhood and the Enclave can be overwhelmee by Raiders, massive numbers, or explosives. Because the armor as it's written in the lore and intended by the developers are not reflected by gameplay.
 
All guns that are based on IRL, but can easily be far stronger than the IRL counterpart. Thousands of games do it. And by ignoring gameplay, you ignore developers intentions. There isn't 0 indication. They very clearly intended for you guns to be able to do things blow up people's limbs and vaporize people. They go out of their way to animate it, and it's not like the body parts suddenly disappear or anything. You can pop someone's skull to bits, and they go out of their way to animate the fleshy broken bits down to their literal eyeballs being splattered. I'm every game. Not just one. All of them. It was intended to be that way. Guns are supposed to do that. That's not 0 indication. That's something they go out of their way to show a gun can do that. Across the entire series.

The reason is because guns and explosives are still capable of breaking their armor is because they scale to higher degrees in power. Guns are extremely inconsistent in different fictional places. Just because IRL ones aren't capable of blowing up a person skull. Doesn't mean in a fictional game, guns aren't capable of that. They clearly intended it to be that way. As the animation process they go through it make it happen. Creating models for pieces of flesh, eyeballs, the skull being destroyed. The sounds of it. It all points to yes: those guns can do this. Lore statements even help with guns like lasers, because it specifically says they can vap people.
 
I still agree with Qawsedf.
 
Qawsedf thought that we should close this thread. It would probably be a good idea to do so.
 
Stamina, lifting strength, and all of the powers besides Regenerationn look good to me. I'm not for any PC having relativistic combat speed.
 
Okay. Thanks. Feel free to apply that then.
 
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