Fairy tail Immortality Upgrade

[Zeinx1]

First of all, greetings, due to the memento mori situation, I thought that the immortality of some characters was insufficient and for this reason I decided to open a crt.

Feat:

Here the death of the character Zeref depends on the concepts of life and death, without which the "immortal zeref" cannot be destroyed. It is said that zeref cannot be killed without their destruction, which will give an immortality that depends on the concepts of life and death, which will be type8.

Characters whose profile is affected :

Spoiler: Characters

Zeref Dragneel
Mavis Vermillion

And since Ankhseram's curse can kill Zeref and Mavis, they should have type 8 immortality negation, and since it is Zeref and Mavis who can use it, they should have immortality affirmation in their profiles.

Zeref killed Mavis, who is immortal, with Anksheram, so this is supported.

Characters whose profile is affected :

Spoiler: Characters

Zeref Dragneel
Mavis Vermillion

Agree: @Lynieryz @Zeinx1 @LuffyRuffy46307 @Chardee.wl @DarkDragonMedeus @Shiraito983 @Blackdragonq1

Disagree:

 

[Lynieryz]

Agree FRA

And Ankhseram's curse should have type 8 immortality negation for being able to kill Zeref and Mavis; Which makes sense since Ankhseram is the god who governs the concepts of life and death.

 

[Zeinx1]

Agree FRA

And Ankhseram's curse should have type 8 immortality negation for being able to kill Zeref and Mavis; Which makes sense since Ankhseram is the god who governs the concepts of life and death.

I'll add it to the op in a bit.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It seems good

 

[LordGinSama]

I could have sworn he already had type 8. But yeah this is straightforward.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I will help this reach admins and moderators

 

[Chardee.wl]

I definitely agree that it was an issue that needed to be opened.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

We consider this to be Resistance to Existence Erasure and Conceptual Manipulation

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright.

 

[Zeinx1]

We consider this to be Resistance to Existence Erasure and Conceptual Manipulation

Therefore, a character with immortality through the concepts of life and death can resist being erased from existence, so I think it is absolutely logical to be immo8, at the same time, as you said, cm3 can be given resistance to being erased from existence, but this is not something that can prevent immo8.

 

[Zeinx1]

I could have sworn he already had type 8. But yeah this is straightforward.

I think it would be a nice addition to Base zeref and mavis, do you know why it wasn't added before?

 

[Zeinx1]

I will help this reach admins and moderators

thank you so much dude

 

[LordGinSama]

I think it would be a nice addition to Base zeref and mavis, do you know why it wasn't added before?

It was probably accidentally removed. I wouldn't necessarily word it the way you did, but rather that he's reliant on his curse of contradiction.

I wouldn't say he's reliant on the concepts of life and death as technically those are aspects that literally effect eveyone. He's moreso reliant on his Curse of Contradiction more than anything else. He can still die, just not by conventional means. Things such as him being able to die normally if some shit like love is involved (Iirc Mavis and Zeref died only after some love shit.)

 

[Zeinx1]

It was probably accidentally removed. I wouldn't necessarily word it the way you did, but rather that he's reliant on his curse of contradiction.

I wouldn't say he's reliant on the concepts of life and death as technically those are aspects that literally effect eveyone. He's moreso reliant on his Curse of Contradiction more than anything else. He can still die, just not by conventional means. Things such as him being able to die normally if some shit like love is involved (Iirc Mavis and Zeref died only after some love shit.)

Yes, I could have done that, it would have been a better scan, but I didn't think of it, sorry. The event of dying with love you said is an omnipotent power, even in the fairy tail wiki, it is stated that it is omnipotent, and the name of those deaths is The One Magic.

 

[LordGinSama]

Yes, I could have done that, it would have been a better scan, but I didn't think of it, sorry. The event of dying with love you said is an omnipotent power, even in the fairy tail wiki, it is stated that it is omnipotent, and the name of those deaths is The One Magic.

The One Magic definitely isn't omnipotent nor is the fairy tail wiki a proper form of evidence for such a claim.

It's not actually omnipotent, that's a term thats thrown around in manga a lot but doesn't actually have any impactful meaning aside from it being stronger than whatever is in the verse. The One Magic is simply able to break the curse of contradiction that's all there is to it within this interaction.

 

[Zeinx1]

The One Magic definitely isn't omnipotent nor is the fairy tail wiki a proper form of evidence for such a claim.

It's not actually omnipotent, that's a term thats thrown around in manga a lot but doesn't actually have any impactful meaning aside from it being stronger than whatever is in the verse. The One Magic is simply able to break the curse of contradiction that's all there is to it within this interaction.

It is said like this in the series, that's why I threw it, I know we don't give scale from wiki.

The one magic power of love unstoppable power etc. If I don't remember wrongly, anyway, I don't think it's an antifeat, I guess it won't be a problem

 

[LordGinSama]

It is said like this in the series, that's why I threw it, I know we don't give scale from wiki.

The one magic power of love unstoppable power etc. If I don't remember wrongly, anyway, I don't think it's an antifeat, I guess it won't be a problem

Oh yeah it's on an anti-feat I'm just saying his type 8 isn't based on the concepts of life and death.

It's also funny how simp manipulation is high key a direct counter to the curse of contradiction lmfao.

 

[Shiraito983]

agree

 

[Zeinx1]

Oh yeah it's on an anti-feat I'm just saying his type 8 isn't based on the concepts of life and death.

It's also funny how simp manipulation is high key a direct counter to the curse of contradiction lmfao.

Actually, nd1 could also be given from here, but I need to think about it, yes, I will add to the op tomorrow for anksheram.

 

[LordGinSama]

Actually, nd1 could also be given from here, but I need to think about it, yes, I will add to the op tomorrow for anksheram.

What's ND1?

 

[Popbum]

What's ND1?

Aspect 1 I’m assuming.

 

[Chardee.wl]

What's ND1?

He means non duality type 1

 

[RoyGundam]

This is a statement rather than a feat

 

[Zeinx1]

What's ND1?

Nonduality aspect 1

you gain nd1 if you are independent or transcendent of a duality zeref is independent of life and death due to anksheram so I thought he should get nd1

 

[Zeinx1]

He means non duality type 1

Nope non duality aspect 1 not type 1

 

[Zeinx1]

This is a statement rather than a feat

If you look at the situation in Memento mori you can see that this is not just a statement, he really can't kill and he says this because he can't kill Zeref anyway, nothing created by Zeref can kill Zeref.

 

[Nerd1435]

He can neither be killed by power of the living, nor by the power of the dead. Probably because life and death are under Ankhseram's control.

But power of the dying - power of someone who was neither dead nor alive, such as the flames Igneel passed on to Natsu might be able to kill him. (this power is outside the concepts of living and dead)

Because of this Mard Geer also wanted to circumvent his Immortality by eliminating the concepts of life and death with his curse, by coming up with something that has nothing to do with life or death

 

[Zeinx1]

But power of the dying - power of someone who was neither dead nor alive, such as the flames Igneel passed on to Natsu might be able to kill him. (this power is outside the concepts of living and dead)

I don't agree with this, even natsu can't kill zeref, which we have seen in the series that zeref's prediction that natsu could kill him in e.n.d form completely failed.

Because of this Mard Geer also wanted to circumvent his Immortality by eliminating the concepts of life and death with his curse, by coming up with something that has nothing to do with life or death

Yes, but he couldn't kill him because zeref is beyond that.

 

[Nerd1435]

I don't agree with this, even natsu can't kill zeref, which we have seen in the series that zeref's prediction that natsu could kill him in e.n.d form completely failed.

Yes, but he couldn't kill him because zeref is beyond that.

Zeref never fought E.N.D. And I did not even talk about E.N.D.

I talked about a dying Igneel's flames, which Zeref himself admitted might actually be able to kill him. He couldn't do the job with the first full blown attack, and Happy interrupted the second attack (while Zeref was convinced he's done for) so it never landed and Natsu ran out of that power.

Mard Geer's curse either couldn't have effected Zeref or he would've come back from existence erase it's one of these two. He's beyond the curse, but not beyond the concept if that was what you're saying.

 

[Zeinx1]

Zeref never fought E.N.D. And I did not even talk about E.N.D.

I talked about a dying Igneel's flames, which Zeref himself admitted might actually be able to kill him. He couldn't do the job with the first full blown attack, and Happy interrupted the second attack (while Zeref was convinced he's done for) so it never landed and Natsu ran out of that power.

Mard Geer's curse either couldn't have effected Zeref or he would've come back from existence erase it's one of these two. He's beyond the curse, but not beyond the concept if that was what you're saying.

Zeref's goal was to die anyway, he let e.n.d natsu hit him on purpose.

Yes, Zeref really thought he could die like that, but no, he didn't, and then he said, "So even you can't kill me. It comes down to this, even if Natsu had actually hit him there, he wouldn't have been able to kill him, he wouldn't have been able to go beyond Zeref's mid godly or immortality.

Mard Geer's curse affected Zeref, but you can't kill Zeref even if you erase him from existence, that's why there is conceptual erasure resistance in the vsb.

 

[Nerd1435]

Zeref's goal was to die anyway, he let e.n.d natsu hit him on purpose.

E.N.D Natsu never confronted Zeref.

Yes, Zeref really thought he could die like that, but no, he didn't, and then he said, "So even you can't kill me. It comes down to this, even if Natsu had actually hit him there, he wouldn't have been able to kill him, he wouldn't have been able to go beyond Zeref's mid godly or immortality.

He didn't die because Happy interfered to save Natsu. The new found hope in Zeref was lost after that and he continued with his plan.

You should stop thinking in terms of Vs battles wiki's ability tiering when discussing a series and events in it. Zeref's regeneration and Immortality are due to the curse. If the curse is ignored entirely then they won't matter, that's the whole reason why he was hopeful.

Zeref knows better after 400 Years of trying to find a way to commit suicide lol. He thought Power of dying could work despite obviously knowing spells of (mind+body+soul) erasure won't work (like genesis zero) and also discarding memento mori.

So obviously what can kill him inside fairy tail isn't in terms of "Oh! Natsu can't bypass my mid-godly regeneration!"

Mard Geer's curse affected Zeref, but you can't kill Zeref even if you erase him from existence, that's why there is conceptual erasure resistance in the vsb.

When did his curse affect Zeref? Zeref considered it a joke lol. "Resistance" means resisting the erasure, not being effected by it and regenerating from it like you're thinking.

But yes, Zeref can more than likely regenerate from having his existence erased lol. Possibly even conceptually, considering he said absolutely nothing can kill him anymore in his final confrontation with Natsu (so can't discount the fact that he knows very well about space between time and its existence erasure)

 

[Zeinx1]

E.N.D Natsu never confronted Zeref.

He didn't die because Happy interfered to save Natsu. The new found hope in Zeref was lost after that and he continued with his plan.

You should stop thinking in terms of Vs battles wiki's ability tiering when discussing a series and events in it. Zeref's regeneration and Immortality are due to the curse. If the curse is ignored entirely then they won't matter, that's the whole reason why he was hopeful.

Zeref knows better after 400 Years of trying to find a way to commit suicide lol. He thought Power of dying could work despite obviously knowing spells of (mind+body+soul) erasure won't work (like genesis zero) and also discarding memento mori.

So obviously what can kill him inside fairy tail isn't in terms of "Oh! Natsu can't bypass my mid-godly regeneration!"

When did his curse affect Zeref? Zeref considered it a joke lol. "Resistance" means resisting the erasure, not being effected by it and regenerating from it like you're thinking.

But yes, Zeref can more than likely regenerate from having his existence erased lol. Possibly even conceptually, considering he said absolutely nothing can kill him anymore in his final confrontation with Natsu (so can't discount the fact that he knows very well about space between time and its existence erasure)

E.N.D Natsu's weakness is simply evident from his battle with gray, which is no match for zeref, demon hunter gray > e.n.d natsu

You can't call it evidence because Natsu couldn't kill Zeref there.

The curse isn't being ignored, that's the problem.

Even Memento mori's killing technique could not kill zeref, there is no way for zeref to die, I don't think igneel's flame will change anything, and since we don't see this, your defence goes for lack of evidence.

Anyway, it is not possible to kill zeref by erasing zeref from existence, destroying his soul, etc. only the one magic can kill zeref.

 

[Nerd1435]

E.N.D Natsu's weakness is simply evident from his battle with gray, which is no match for zeref, demon hunter gray > e.n.d natsu

He's not properly portrayed during Alvarez. He was hyped by Igneel as a threat to Acnologia, and Zeref believed he had the potential to kill him.

You can't call it evidence because Natsu couldn't kill Zeref there.

The curse isn't being ignored, that's the problem.

Couldn't because Happy stopped him. What Zeref said > What you said based on nothing.

Even Memento mori's killing technique could not kill zeref, there is no way for zeref to die, I don't think igneel's flame will change anything, and since we don't see this, your defence goes for lack of evidence.

"We don't see this" doesn't mean it won't happen lol. That's such a bad argument.

We didn't see Base Zeref regenerating from existenve erasure, we didn't see Zeref actually taking on Memento Mori. By your logic since we didn't see Zeref doing those, there's lack of evidence.

There are so many other things I can point out if I go with your "we don't see this happen on screen, so lack of evidence and it likely wont happen"

Zeref himself said Igneel's flames could kill him despite thinking Memento Mori won't. That is evidence in itself, it's not hard to understand.

Anyway, it is not possible to kill zeref by erasing zeref from existence, destroying his soul, etc. only the one magic can kill zeref.

He died because their love transcended the curse and made them die (whether it be one magic or the curse of contradiction contradicting itself)

That's how he died doesn't mean that's the only way he can die. Especially when he himself thinks dying Igneel flames might have done the job.

And there's another way he could die besides these two: Neo Eclipse. time reset.

 

[Mertullah]

disagree

 

[Zeinx1]

He's not properly portrayed during Alvarez. He was hyped by Igneel as a threat to Acnologia, and Zeref believed he had the potential to kill him.


Couldn't because Happy stopped him. What Zeref said > What you said based on nothing.

"We don't see this" doesn't mean it won't happen lol. That's such a bad argument.

We didn't see Base Zeref regenerating from existenve erasure, we didn't see Zeref actually taking on Memento Mori. By your logic since we didn't see Zeref doing those, there's lack of evidence.

There are so many other things I can point out if I go with your "we don't see this happen on screen, so lack of evidence and it likely wont happen"

Zeref himself said Igneel's flames could kill him despite thinking Memento Mori won't. That is evidence in itself, it's not hard to understand.

He died because their love transcended the curse and made them die (whether it be one magic or the curse of contradiction contradicting itself)

That's how he died doesn't mean that's the only way he can die. Especially when he himself thinks dying Igneel flames might have done the job.

And there's another way he could die besides these two: Neo Eclipse. time reset.

As I said, there is no proof that natsu could kill him because natsu didn't kill him, it was just a rhetoric, and don't forget that zeref has the most powerful magic statement.

We know Zeref's statements, but since natsu did not kill him, there is a lack of evidence, and this means that natsu cannot prevent anksheram, nothing can prevent anksheram except the one magic (nlf).

''Saying we don't see it means there's no proof, lil bro''

If you don't know why Base zeref got mid godly, this is not my problem, I can prove you mid godly here even from bluis, bluis is experiencing these things and we see that even his soul comes back even though it is deleted, we can argue that zeref should at least get mid godly even just from here.

''in addition, stop confusing lack of evidence with statement, you are funny ''

Their love is not the thing that overcomes the curse, learn this first Anksheram is something based on the emotion system, the more emotion you feel for someone, the more you can lose it, zeref and bluis were very, very, very much in love with each other, so the one magic was activated and 2 sides died / reincarnated, so technically he already used Anksheram even while dying.

Don't equate these events with neo eclipse, neo eclipse is an effect on a timeline, which is a godlike situation, don't distort the subject, there are no other characters who can use neo eclipse in the series.

 

[Zeinx1]

Now this subject we are discussing has become independent of crt, let's discuss it in fairy tail general

 

[Nerd1435]

You need to work on your comprehension skills.

You either reiterated the same shit that I have countered Or said a bunch of irrelevant shit.

It's Mavis, not Bluis. And I know they can regenerate their soul, you're not telling me anything new. That is not regenerating from existence erasure. And zeref still did not take memento mori.

And this is completely irrelevant to the point I made, it counters absolutely nothing.

Although honestly it should have been apparent to me that you did not even read Fairy Tail when you said Zeref let Natsu hit him in his END form. It's alright if you didn't read it, but your inability to see how you are countering yourself with your "arguments" is funny.

 

[Zeinx1]

You need to work on your comprehension skills.

You either reiterated the same shit that I have countered Or said a bunch of irrelevant shit.

It's Mavis, not Bluis. And I know they can regenerate their soul, you're not telling me anything new. That is not regenerating from existence erasure. And zeref still did not take memento mori.

And this is completely irrelevant to the point I made, it counters absolutely nothing.

Although honestly it should have been apparent to me that you did not even read Fairy Tail when you said Zeref let Natsu hit him in his END form. It's alright if you didn't read it, but your inability to see how you are countering yourself with your "arguments" is funny.

The reason I call Mavis bluis is because of the mass text translation. This is not my problem but the fault of the translation I use.

If what you say contradicts, there is nothing I can do, you said that zeref can die with the power of natsu, but I told you that this power is not that important and I proved it by giving an example.

You've made two fallacies now.

Appeal to emotion.

Ad hominem

please learn how to argue properly first and then talk about whether I watched the series or not.

 

[Nerd1435]

What contradicts what I said? Nothing you have said so far.

You on the other hand, are contradicting yourself. Almost the entire reason Zeref had resistance to concept manipulation and existence erasure on his profile was - him saying Memento Mori won't work on him.

Which you seem to agree with. But you don't think Zeref saying Natsu could kill him with dying Igneel's power should be considered just because "we didn't see it happen"? How does that make any sense?

Mashima could have just made Natsu land the final punch and Zeref survive it if he wanted to solidly portray that power of the dying couldn't have killed him. But what he portrayed is- Natsu missed the opportunity to kill him, even Zeref himself says it.

That's not appealing to anything, not a single argument of mine was appealing to emotions, nor is any argument of mine based on making a personal attack.

"You didn't read Fairy Tail" is an observation (which has been quite apparent), not a basis of any argument of mine. They remain unaffected regardless.

 

[Blackdragonq1]

First of all, greetings, due to the memento mori situation, I thought that the immortality of some characters was insufficient and for this reason I decided to open a crt.

Feat:

Here the death of the character Zeref depends on the concepts of life and death, without which the "immortal zeref" cannot be destroyed. It is said that zeref cannot be killed without their destruction, which will give an immortality that depends on the concepts of life and death, which will be type8.

Characters whose profile is affected :

Spoiler: Characters

Zeref Dragneel
Mavis Vermillion

And since Ankhseram's curse can kill Zeref and Mavis, they should have type 8 immortality negation, and since it is Zeref and Mavis who can use it, they should have immortality affirmation in their profiles.

Zeref killed Mavis, who is immortal, with Anksheram, so this is supported.

Characters whose profile is affected :

Spoiler: Characters

Zeref Dragneel
Mavis Vermillion

I agree