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Expect the unexpected : Garou revision

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Zexer1 said:
As I said, this is included in the scope of omniscience not nigh-omniscience
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dude, both omiscient and nigh omniscient being would've known things like that. Its just that a nigh omniscient being wouldn't know very very miniscule things. Garou lacks way too much knowledge to be nigh omniscienct

there are literally so many instances where we see him not know the most important things, not knowing he was going to be defeated by orochi etc etc
 
Damage3245 said:
I think Garou should probably get "Extraordinary Genius" for this, not Nigh-Omniscience.
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That would put him on the level of super-scientists like urahara kisuke but the thing is his knowledge far exceeds that level

Supergenius is the least we can go with as it is on a universal scale like Garou's knowledge

But taking this in consideration -
"This means that they can reach exceptional levels in some respects, but be unimpressive in others." "Genius normally. Nigh-Omniscient with X power" could be appropriate for characters who display standard levels of genius intellect normally, and can receive enormously greater amounts of knowledge from a separate power, such as Cosmic Awareness, but may not have access to this power on a regular basis."
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we can probably go with this description too :
"xx normally. Nigh-omniscient in awakened state (have knowledge of all energy and all forces of the universe)"
 
Zexer1 said:
My friend, 'energy' (energy would also include matter and certain forms of non-corporeal) & 'force' (includes inertia and cosmic force) are different things...so it's not only "one thing" but plural.
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Based on what exactly? Based on what we're told and shown, Graou's knowledge extends to wack cosmic energy flows, cool. But now you're extrapolating what that actually entails to get it to cover more grounds when it really doesn't.
And no, in context this is just one subset of things, cosmic bullshit. Splitting it off to mean different things is just a poor attempt to try and get Garou shit he doesn't actually qualify for.
Zexer1 said:
1. Do you think that knowing about all energy and forces on a universal level is a lesser scale of knowledge than knowing about a guy ******** on a random planet or knowing how to compose music?
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Doesn't matter. I don't think you understand, there's no "scales of knowledge here", he either knows almost everything (Reminder the definition of "Nigh" is "Almost", aka he needs to know almost everything, which he does not), or he doesn't.

And the case here is he doesn't. It could knowing what game came out last week, or knowing the full extent and exact specifics of all quantum physic-related theories. It doesn't matter, Garou simply has an absolutely hilarious amount of shit his bestowed knowledge doesn't cover to even humor nigh-omniscience.

You're unironically trying to say Garou knows basically everything because he knows everything about this group of shit. No, that just means he knows everything about this group of shit, actually, try looking through profiles that have nigh-omniscience to see what qualifies or examples on the wiki.

And no, they're equal in this situation, they're both two different groups of things, unfortunately, Garou knows **** all about it, along with untold countless other categories of knowledge, hell I'd be more willing to give someone Nigh-Omniscience if they knew, and understood everything except what Garou covers.
Zexer1 said:
Weak analogy fallacy
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Is it though? Because I guarantee you Batman knows way the **** more than Garou does. Batman knows every single violent art form, mastery of them all. Ergo, he has complete knowledge of a category, and not just that, he knows literally everything about biology, psychology, geology, various groups of science and more. That's already more than Garou, with him knowing everything there is to know about them, yet, he isn't nigh omniscient is he? You wouldn't say Batman knowing everything about dozens and dozens of whole categories of knowledge would grant nigh-omniscience, and hell, he probably knows most of what Garou knows too, now would you? Is it because Garou has a statement saying "he has complete knowledge over this specific thing"? If so Batman has dozens of statements like that too, and he proves time and time again it's not just hyperbole. So why is Batman different?

It's not even an analogy, it's me flatout saying Batman, and hundreds of other characters on this wiki, who are blatantly not nigh-omniscient, know way the **** more than Garou wishes he ever could. They aren't nigh anything, and neither is Garou.
Zexer1 said:
So you're implying that I'm giving priority to linguistic explanations over semantic context while you're giving the "right meaning" of nigh-omniscience’s description which is actually not right
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No, I'm saying Garou doesn't exactly qualify, and you're reading into the page to hyper literally and taking the exact wording at face value (because who the hell figured in the year 2023 people would try and stretch nigh-omniscience this low, I can't even blame the person who wrote it because this is unheard of) to give him something he blatantly doesn't have 🗿
And I have already concisely explained why garou should have nigh-omniscience while your counter arguments are either fallacious, negated or logically unsound.
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And your explanation boils down to "he knows everything about this shit, so he should be nigh omniscient", which kinda ignores how much he doesn't know, your standards for this shit, precedence, and the very huge red flag of unironically countless more shit he doesn't know compared to what he does know.
Doesn't that strike you as odd? A nigh-omniscient who, unironically, has more that they don't know than what they know? "Nigh" fr lmao am I right?

Also stop typing like this is discord, kinda cringe ngl 🗿
 
Zexer1 said:
Supergenius is the least we can go with as it is on a universal scale like Garou's knowledge
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Doesn't even qualify for that, to get that you need knowledge that basically enables you to do 3-A bullshit.
"Supergenius: The highest level of non-omniscient intellect, possessed by individuals with unfathomably superhuman intelligence who are capable of creating impossibly advanced physics-defying and reality-warping fantasy technology for extremely diverse purposes.

Take note that for a Supergenius rating to be given based on technological prowess, the character in question should be able to essentially warp reality as they wish on an at least universal (3-A) scale with their inventions, or even use them to overpower tier 1 entities for higher cases. Simply defying the laws of physics with futuristic technology is very common for Extraordinary Geniuses as well.


Garou knowing everything about the universe doesn't mean he can employ it in radical ways like that.

Also,
"Nigh-Omniscient: Characters who have knowledge of nearly everything, with only minuscule gaps existing in their knowledge."

From the intelligence page itself, Garou has bit more than minuscule gaps in his knowledge yet for some reason you don't believe me when I say we only use this for mf's who know basically everything with only a few things they don't actually know and just knowing everything about some shit ain't it
 
To people who quote me and correct me, I am aware but my stance is unchanged.

The qualification is the same for both, it's simply most of characters who got nigh omniscience are those who knows everything except some feeling from other character which goes against the notion (the reason they don't get the omniscience)
 
Chariot190 said:
Based on what exactly? Based on what we're told and shown, Graou's knowledge extends to wack cosmic energy flows, cool. But now you're extrapolating what that actually entails to get it to cover more grounds when it really doesn't.
And no, in context this is just one subset of things, cosmic bullshit. Splitting it off to mean different things is just a poor attempt to try and get Garou shit he doesn't actually qualify for.
Click to expand...
"All energy" 'all' is used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing, and matter is just a form of energy so I'm not extrapolating anything.

Chariot190 said:
Doesn't matter. I don't think you understand, there's no "scales of knowledge here", he either knows almost everything (Reminder the definition of "Nigh" is "Almost", aka he needs to know almost everything, which he does not), or he doesn't.
Click to expand...
No shit ik that, what I'm trying to say is that Garou has knowledge on everything of the cosmos

Chariot190 said:
try looking through profiles that have nigh-omniscience to see what qualifies or examples on the wiki.
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Half of the said profiles mentioned on the examples of nigh-omniscience don't even have a justification 🗿

Chariot190 said:
Is it though? Because I guarantee you Batman knows way the **** more than Garou does. Batman knows every single violent art form, mastery of them all. Ergo, he has complete knowledge of a category, and not just that, he knows literally everything about biology, psychology, geology, various groups of science and more, That's already more than Garou.
Click to expand...
You literally just said that having knowledge on a couple of fields like science, SST is more knowledgeable than having knowledge on everything of the cosmos not to mention that garou is a better martial artist and can learn any skill in an instant so that unfortunately is a weak analogy

Chariot190 said:
And your explanation boils down to "he knows everything about this shit, so he should be nigh omniscient", which kinda ignores how much he doesn't know, your standards for this shit, precedence, and the very huge red flag of unironically countless more shit he doesn't know compared to what he does know.
Doesn't that strike you as odd? A nigh-omniscient who, unironically, has more that they don't know than what they know? "Nigh" fr lmao am I right?
Click to expand...
Was halfway writing through but **** it maybe you're right on this stuff.

The cosmic awareness shit gets removed for sure and then that leaves him on getting extraordinary genius because even though he has knowledge on a 3A scale, he still can't radically employ it resulting him in being unqualified for supergenius.
 
I actually agree, this seems fine for me as well. Nigh-Omniscience is far stretched.
 
I agree with Cosmic Awareness removal, but disagree with Nigh-Omniscinece, he literally only knows things related to energy and forces, calling him a nigh-omniscient being is a stretch of the definition.
 
can anyone link some profiles of characters who have higher degree of extraordinary intelligence..?
 
ImmortalDread said:
There is no omniscience in the profile?
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no he doesn't have any prior omniscience, we just need to remove cosmic awareness from his ability section and update his intelligence to higher degree of extraordinary intelligence tho idk if any other character has higher degree of it or not
 
I removed the cosmic awareness, plus extraordinary intelligence is already there with the same reasons, so I don't think it is higher degree. I thought his prior intelligence had different reasons.
 
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