Expect the unexpected : Garou revision

[Sisyphusx]

1. Removal of cosmic awareness

This is used as the justification for Garou's cosmic awareness and this is what cosmic awareness is :

The ability to observe phenomena and be aware of events on a cosmic scale.
Cosmic Awareness is associated with both Clairvoyance and Enhanced Senses and acts as a combination of the two that takes it to a much higher scale, allowing users to observe others from across the universe and "hear" things across such distances.

• clairvoyance
Cosmic awareness is a combination of clairvoyance and enhanced sense but Garou has no feat of clairvoyance

• Cosmic awareness
It allows the user to observe others from across the universe and be aware of events on a cosmic scale but here Garou was unaware of Tareo's death even when on the earth and only realised it when he saw Tareo which opposes him having cosmic awareness, and he doesn't have any feats to counter this anti-feat

The statement

"Has gained knowledge of the flow of all energy and behavior of all forces in the universe"

Is the only reason for him having this ability on the wiki but the above statement doesn't actually matches the cosmic awareness description;
Cosmic awareness is being aware of events on a cosmic scale or observe them on a universal level (considering this to be true for garou as his ability works on a universal level) but gaining knowledge of everything in the universe is not the same as constantly being aware of every event occurring in the universe

2. The real shit...
nigh-omniscience

The user knows almost everything in existence while being blocked from certain details or being limited in other ways, possibly only being able to see one timeline or universe

The user's knowledge is limited in certain ways/areas: they may be limited to certain areas or subjects of knowledge or lack knowledge about certain areas

"Has gained knowledge of the flow of all energy and behavior of all forces in the universe"

1. nigh-omniscience is possessing the knowledge of almost everything in existence as quoted above, which is exactly what Garou has and feats being the GRB

2. The limitations being that Garou only has knowledge of 1 universe/timeline out of the countless others which is in respect to the description of nigh-omniscience and its limitations

Tl;dr...Garou's cosmic awareness should get changed to nigh-omniscience as the latter makes more sense than the prior because of the reasons listed above.

Agree : Phsccarvalho, ZillertheBucko, Kachon123, Timmyturnero & Thelastmlg & Damage3245 (with CA)

Disagree : Timmyturnero & Thelastmlg (with nigh-omniscience) Chariot190

Neutral : Damage3245 (with nigh-omniscience) Marvel_Champion_07

Conclusion
Cosmic awareness is removed from Garou's profile but he gets to have his extraordinary genius intelligence instead of nigh-omniscience.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Seems to make sense to me. Post the link to this on the OPM Thread here, for more people to see.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Well there’s more limitations than the one you listed, but anyways nigh will probably go through

 

[Kachon123]

I agree with this

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Following. Seems to make sense at a glance

 

[Sisyphusx]

@Phsccarvalho @ZillertheBucko
So should I keep you both in agree?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Well yes, but we’re not staff so it doesn’t actually have any impact

 

[Phsccarvalho]

@Phsccarvalho @ZillertheBucko
So should I keep you both in agree?

If you want, you can, but there's not much difference as Ziller already pointed out.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

If only regular members actually mattered in these votes lmao
unexpectedly, a staff vote agreed to shut down a thread to expand the amount of people who can vote, so there’s not much of an opportunity anymore

 

[Sisyphusx]

Common citizens should also get some amount of power in votings (democracy)

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Common citizens should also get some amount of power in votings (democracy)

If that were the case, only the numbers would matter, not the arguments. It's just some users spam "FRA" and that's it. Of course, it's not a perfect system, as there are too many CRTs for too few employees in comparison, plus they don't know about all the dummy verses, so sometimes it takes time to see a topic or to review it after you agree or disagree.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Makes sense for removing CA and nigh omniscience looks ok.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

If that were the case, only the numbers would matter, not the arguments. It's just some users spam "FRA" and that's it. Of course, it's not a perfect system, as there are too many CRTs for too few employees in comparison, plus they don't know about all the dummy verses, so sometimes it takes time to see a topic or to review it after you agree or disagree.

What we need to do is just ban FRA trains, it’s the only thing that makes sense to do.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

What we need to do is just ban FRA trains, it’s the only thing that makes sense to do.

For me neither FRA should have.

 

[Sisyphusx]

If that were the case, only the numbers would matter, not the arguments. It's just some users spam "FRA" and that's it. Of course, it's not a perfect system, as there are too many CRTs for too few employees in comparison, plus they don't know about all the dummy verses, so sometimes it takes time to see a topic or to review it after you agree or disagree.

Yes, I agree on that too, my above comment was just sarcasm

 

[Damage3245]

Removing the Cosmic Awareness seems fine.


I'm not sure about the Nigh-Omniscience though. It may be okay but will need to see what other staff think.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I agree for both removal. Omniscience needs more context than this.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Omniscience needs more context than this.

It's nigh omniscience.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

“There is also "Nigh Omniscience", for which a character or entity knows almost everything about their fictional continuity, with the exception of a small amount of information (usually what an even more powerful character wishes to conceal from them).”
After a deeper look I think I’ll have to disagree, he doesn’t know “everything” about his own verse, but know a little bit about the universe. When it comes to the future, past, etc, understanding of things within his own verse, he pretty much has little to knowledge of it. It wouldn’t even be limited according to the page.

 

[Thelastmlg]

i only disagree with nigh omniscience, the knownledge of the flow of energy and "forces" is nowhere near the same as knowning almost everything in the verse, is probably the highest level of knownledge in physics you can get but that only really gets you extraordinary genius, i'd argue super genius but that has the weird requirement of having 3-A tech

 

[Sisyphusx]

I agree for both removal. Omniscience needs more context than this.

It's nigh-omniscience

After a deeper look I think I’ll have to disagree, he doesn’t know “everything” about his own verse, but know a little bit about the universe.

Your antithesis falls apart here because he shouldn't know "everything" in the first place but "almost everything" ie he need not know everything about his whole verse

He have knowledge about everything of his universe but not other universes which is fine for nigh omniscience as

"possibly only being able to see one timeline or universe"

One universe is enough

i only disagree with nigh omniscience, the knownledge of the flow of energy and "forces" is nowhere near the same as knowning almost everything in the verse

Everything in the universe is consist of energy and matter (matter is a form of energy) and even non-corporeal entities are a form of energy, force here is used to to refer to the inertia of every matter and garou has knowledge of 'all' energy and 'all' forces of the universe, so yes that is indirectly implying that he has knowledge of everything in the universe.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Your antithesis falls apart here because he shouldn't know "everything" in the first place but "almost everything" ie he need not know everything about his whole verse

Nigh means he almost knows everything, but that’s not true here. He has only one understanding of something here and I don’t think that’s enough to give him nigh omniscience.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

if "at most nigh omniscience" is a thing then garou would definitely have it

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Nigh means he almost knows everything, but that’s not true here. He has only one understanding of something here and I don’t think that’s enough to give him nigh omniscience.

• The user's knowledge is limited in certain ways/areas: they may be limited to certain areas or subjects of knowledge or lack knowledge about certain areas.

they may be limited to certain areas or subjects of knowledge or lack knowledge about certain areas.

Cosmic Garou have all (or almost) possible knowledge of a specific area, which is about the forces and energies of the entire universe. Seems to be qualifying.

 

[Chariot190]

I'm not sure, nigh-omniscience implies he knows basically everything. But he doesn't, he just knows everything about a specific category of things, like energies and how they work and cosmic forces.

Hee doesn't know what Tats had for lunch yesterday, he doesn't know how to play violin or how to beat every game King has let alone their titles and the contents i mean he'd be able to figure it out fast but he doesnt atm he doesnt know what Steve down the street is doing right now, or an extensive knowledge on geography, color theory, musical composition, diseases, frugology and basically literally everything else that exists.

His omniscience extends to just cosmic forces and energy, which while vast, isn't exactly nigh-omniscience given that implies he knows literally everything but a few things. And even then he just knows how that works, he didn't even realize his bitch ass was giving off completely insane rads that would kill the dude he was trying to show off to.

 

[Chariot190]

they may be limited to certain areas or subjects of knowledge or lack knowledge about certain areas.

Cosmic Garou have all (or almost) possible knowledge of a specific area, which is about the forces and energies of the entire universe. Seems to be qualifying.

Yeah but like, when it says that it means something specific, like DC's Mobius Chair knowing everything except what lies beyond the source wall. Garou is the opposite, he knows only one category of things, but nothing else. He's like the exact opposite of what the page is implying.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I'm not sure, nigh-omniscience implies he knows basically everything. But he doesn't, he just knows everything about a specific category of things, like energies and how they work and cosmic forces.

Hee doesn't know what Tats had for lunch yesterday, he doesn't know how to play violin or how to beat every game King has let alone their titles and the contents i mean he'd be able to figure it out fast but he doesnt atm he doesnt know what Steve down the street is doing right now, or an extensive knowledge on geography, color theory, musical composition, diseases, frugology and basically literally everything else that exists.

His omniscience extends to just cosmic forces and energy, which while vast, isn't exactly nigh-omniscience given that implies he knows literally everything but a few things. And even then he just knows how that works, he didn't even realize his bitch ass was giving off completely insane rads that would kill the dude he was trying to show off to.

Yeah but like, when it says that it means something specific, like DC's Mobius Chair knowing everything except what lies beyond the source wall. Garou is the opposite, he knows only one category of things, but nothing else. He's like the exact opposite of what the page is implying.

How strange. It's funny how it kind of doesn't fit with either of those two that he knows about all the forces and energy in the universe. It would be just intelligence (I don't want to say anything but I don't think he can solve a quantum physics question)

 

[Ped2018]

Yeah but like, when it says that it means something specific, like DC's Mobius Chair knowing everything except what lies beyond the source wall. Garou is the opposite, he knows only one category of things, but nothing else. He's like the exact opposite of what the page is implying.

Huh, then is "limited nigh-omniscience" a thing?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

At least Extraordinary Genius, likely possibly at most limited minor pseudo nigh omniscience

 

[Phsccarvalho]

limited minor pseudo nigh omniscience

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Wait could he just be a super genius

 

[Sisyphusx]

he just knows everything about a specific category of things

"The user's knowledge is limited in certain ways/areas: they may be limited to certain areas or subjects of knowledge"
And that certain area of subject being every & all energy and forces of the universe

His omniscience extends to just cosmic forces and energy, which while vast, isn't exactly nigh-omniscience given that implies he knows literally everything but a few things. And even then he just knows how that works, he didn't even realize his bitch ass was giving off completely insane rads that would kill the dude he was trying to show off to.

"Everything in the universe is consist of energy and matter (matter is a form of energy) and even non-corporeal entities are a form of energy, force here is used to to refer to the inertia of every matter and garou has knowledge of 'all' energy and 'all' forces of the universe, so that is indirectly implying that he has knowledge of everything in the universe."


This fits the criteria of having knowledge on certain areas/subjects on a universal scale..."possibly only being able to see one timeline or universe", he has complete knowledge on the fundamental structure and nature of the whole universe, so examples including "he doesn't know what this human had for lunch so he doesn't have nigh-omniscience" is out of the range of the certain subjects in question, and that is what nigh-omniscience is, limited to certain areas or subjects on a universal or higher scale otherwise we would have been arguing on omniscience instead.

Yeah but like, when it says that it means something specific, like DC's Mobius Chair knowing everything except what lies beyond the source wall. Garou is the opposite, he knows only one category of things, but nothing else. He's like the exact opposite of what the page is implying.

This is affirming a disjunct so I'm just gonna leave it

 

[Chariot190]

"The user's knowledge is limited in certain ways/areas: they may be limited to certain areas or subjects of knowledge"
And that certain area of subject being every & all energy and forces of the universe

Subjects, not subject, key factor being plural, Garou covers a singular topic, that being wacky cosmic shit.

This fits the criteria of having knowledge on certain areas/subjects on a universal scale..."possibly only being able to see one timeline or universe", he has complete knowledge on the fundamental structure and nature of the whole universe, so examples including "he doesn't know what this human had for lunch so he doesn't have nigh-omniscience" is out of the range of the certain subjects in question, and that is what nigh-omniscience is, limited to certain areas or subjects on a universal or higher scale otherwise we would have been arguing on omniscience instead.

My dude, it's literally everything besides this specific topic he doesn't know about, where a nigh-omniscience knows everything except a few subsets, Garou knows nothing besides a specific subset, he's like the exact opposite of what a nigh-omniscient is.
And even on this topic, it literally just extends to knowing how shit works, he doesn't actually have omniscience over it, like he doesn't know how much force Saitama's punches are packing at the end, he had trouble replicating the time travel thing, etc. He just knows how that shit works. A singular, specific category he knows everything about, that's it, the omniscience page you keep quoting at the very least specifies plural subjects. Even though that's really not what the page means and this is just a case of trying to exploit wording for an upgrade.

You wouldn't be arguing anything even if it extended to other subjects because if he had true omniscience, he'd basically have precog too and know what everyone was gonna do before they did it.

Garou having complete knowledge over one category but being normal in like anything else being nigh-omniscience would be like giving Batman nigh-omniscience because he knows everything about every violent art there is as well as everything about the body, disease, every book ever created and has even read them, and more. Unless you think Batman should be nigh-omniscient for knowing absolutely everything there is to know about more subjects than Garou too?

This is affirming a disjunct so I'm just gonna leave it

No it's me pointing out what the page actually means, all Garou deserves is "has complete knowledge over this thing he has complete knowledge over", nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Robo432343]

if it was nigh omniscience then why didn't he know what saitama was going to do

 

[Sisyphusx]

key factor being plural

My friend, 'energy' (energy would also include matter and certain forms of non-corporeal) & 'force' (includes inertia and cosmic force) are different things...so it's not only "one thing" but plural.

My dude, it's literally everything besides this specific topic he doesn't know about, where a nigh-omniscience knows everything except a few subsets, Garou knows nothing besides a specific subset, he's like the exact opposite of what a nigh-omniscient is.

And even on this topic, it literally just extends to knowing how shit works, he doesn't actually have omniscience over it, like he doesn't know how much force Saitama's punches are packing at the end, he had trouble replicating the time travel thing, etc.

1. Do you think that knowing about all energy and forces on a universal level is a lesser scale of knowledge than knowing about a guy ******** on a random planet or knowing how to compose music?
He has knowledge about every energy and force of the universe as he knew about GRB & hyperspaces while having no prior knowledge of them before awakening, and the fact that the whole universe is just consisted of energy, matter and force therefore having knowledge of the fundamental structure and nature of the universe.

2. "he's like the exact opposite of what a nigh-omniscient is."
Nigh-omniscient refers to having the knowledge of almost everything in existence with having some limitations (maybe limited to certain areas/subjects or one universe)
Having knowledge of all energy (& matter) and all forces equates to having knowledge of everything consist of them ie. the whole universe

"he doesn't know how much force Saitama's punches are packing at the end"
Doesn't seem like that

"he had trouble replicating the time travel thing"
What?! Saitama was replicating the ability not Garou

"it literally just extends to knowing how shit works, he doesn't actually have omniscience over it"
"A singular, specific category he knows everything about"
Bro's contradicting himself

would be like giving Batman nigh-omniscience because he knows everything about every violent art there is as well as everything about the body, disease, every book ever created and has even read them, and more

Weak analogy fallacy

Even though that's really not what the page means and this is just a case of trying to exploit wording for an upgrade.

No it's me pointing out what the page actually means

So you're implying that I'm giving priority to linguistic explanations over semantic context while you're giving the "right meaning" of nigh-omniscience’s description which is actually not right

And I have already concisely explained why garou should have nigh-omniscience while your counter arguments are either fallacious, negated or logically unsound.

 

[Sisyphusx]

if it was nigh omniscience then why didn't he know what saitama was going to do

This is a case of omniscience not nigh-omniscience

 

[Excellence616]

God has this in his profile

Likely Extraordinary Genius (Being the source of Awakened Garou's powers, he should likely share all of the knowledge that Garou possessed).

And Garou getting nigh omniscience will eventually make God has the same level of intelligence

 

[Robo432343]

God has this in his profile

And Garou getting nigh omniscience will eventually make God has the same level of intelligence

a nigh omniscient being still would've known what saitama was going to do, they just wouldn't know very very tiny things

garou lacks way too much knowledge to be nigh omniscient

 

[Damage3245]

I think Garou should probably get "Extraordinary Genius" for this, not Nigh-Omniscience.

 

[Sisyphusx]

a nigh omniscient being still would've known what saitama was going to do

As I said, this is included in the scope of omniscience not nigh-omniscience