Example of the N.L. Fallacy Failing to Apply in Undertale

[Angry_Dummy]

As a quick little mention, I'd like to point out an instance where, in this game, the No-Limits fallacy doesn't apply, so that maybe we can better understand it.

And you're looking right at him.

Mad Dummy: "Because he's a ghost, physical attacks will fail."

Random Passerby: "That's a No-Limits fallacy!"


It sounds about right, seeing as it meets the criteria for the fallacy ("No amount of X can harm a character who hasn't been harmed by X before"), but it's wrong.

Unlike most examples, the Mad Dummy isn't immune because of toughness, but the lack thereof. His body, the dummy, is incredibly fragile and falls apart when hit, but he isn't linked to it in such a way that hitting it will injure him. As such, he'll just pull himself together and laugh at your failure to hurt him. It's like he's made of water or air. He's intangible for you, but you're not for him! You cannot affect him with physical attacks. There's nothing to hit.

So before we call NLF on certain characters, let's be more careful and do a background check on why they're immune to certain damage types.

"You cannot kill me/You cannot hurt me/You cannot stab me/Or freeze me, or burn me/I just/Won't die/I've got no body/But I'm still alive!" ~Dummy! remix

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I feel in this case, what makes Mad Dummy's physical immunity not a NLF is the fact that he's a ghost and the mechanics of him not being merged with his physical body are clearly explained. Because of this, we have a clear idea of what does and doesn't hurt him.

Speaking of which, I need to get on that profile.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Gdi Mad Dummy is one of my favorite character, go for it, Abyssal Idiot, so I can make a DIo vs Mad Dummy thread.

On that note, would a Undertale ghost be able to die to hits that can hit them (Like Magic) or are they really immortal on that level too?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Gdi Mad Dummy is one of my favorite character, go for it, Abyssal Idiot, so I can make a DIo vs Mad Dummy thread.
On that note, would a Undertale ghost be able to die to hits that can hit them (Like Magic) or are they really immortal on that level too?

Don't know. Presumably it'd "hurt" (as magic attacks seemed to cause Mad Dummy pain), but they'd likely need to have their soul destroyed to be gotten rid of, for good.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well they do say that they can't die, and Mad Dummy seemed to only treat his own attacks as annoyance rather than something really dangerous.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

This is true. I remember Napstablook mentioning that ghosts can't die, despite ghosts being aware that magic attacks cause them pain. In that case, it'd likely take the destruction of their soul to fully get rid of them, or to ward them off, you could probably just cause one enough pain with magic attacks to make them leave. I imagine a solar system level magic attack would be unbearable compared to say a wall level one.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah the only thing that defeated non-corpereal ghosts is making them go away (Napstablook leaving out of politness, Mad Dummy having enough of everything and the Dummy who is just bored with your BS)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I have added to Napstablook's durability for clarification.

 

[Angry_Dummy]

I would think that, from my knowledge, you can't kill a ghost.

Mad's cousin was already merged, like Glad was, and even after that, he was only homeless, not dead.

I think the ghost pirate Cortez from the second Paper Mario said it best: "Fools! You can't kill a ghost!"

Only Chara, Omega Flowey, and Asriel managed that.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Not really, the Normal Dummy probably wasn't fused. Remember that the Glad Dummy was killed off completely, so is Mettaton when you kill him. Looks like they become "living" when they fuse.