Everything in the game Sonic profile I have some issue with (removal version)

[omegabronic]

Some dreams are very clearly not the same scope as others, Chao in Space has a vastly different scope compared to Firebird

of course, if it is so "clear" then it is easily provable right? so do that, prove it, instead of just saying that it is

and the screens demonstrating each world being a similar size should not inherently mean the worlds themselves are the same size.

yes of course, if it is shown to be similar in size.....it doesn't mean that it is similar in size, yeah of course, that makes sense....not

It’s like saying because two portals to two worlds are the same size, the worlds are the same size, it’s not a fair comparison.

considering that the argument is that the worlds themselves are shown of the same size instead of anything similar to a portal this comparison becomes useless and with no basis

Except these decorations are meant to represent actual collections of stars due to their status as constellations

i sure hope you have prove for this, i will not take your word for it

and the star used as justification for greater heat resistance does not even appear to be the same size as a normal star, given the characters size relative to it

no they are not? the hell are you talking about?

I posted the only image I could find that would remotely suggest multiple galaxies in the OP, and even then they can just be argued as part of a nebula.

they "can", but why WOULD they, why take another, more assumptions interpretation then the less assumptions, face value one? come on, show clear evidence instead of just listing possibilities please

 

[omegabronic]

That’s a NLF pretty sure, and Excalibur was only used in one fight, a fight that essentially played out like every other sword duel in the game in that you had to block attacks and soul surge. If Excalibur could truly cut through anything, it would just slice through the Deathcalibur swords almost immediately.

durability negation =/= one shot always when used, get that out of your head

 

[Lenyo456]

Obviosly it was on is own, because if it was for shahra,then she Will have not Say that Sonic runned until he found his way back to his world.

Well, that's kinda vague, so I guess my point still stands.

 

[Theuser789]

Because there literally isn’t a source for it on his page, I shouldn’t have to prove a negative (that being he can’t regen from his soul), you have to prove the positive (that he can regen without his body)

That goes for the entire segment really, it’s just people asking to prove a negative when that’s not how it’s supposed to work.

Then why don't ask for a source for the page instead of making of trying to remove it?

This isn't a job nor an obligation. This is a hobby for fun. And respect is needed here.

Opposers post threads with actual arguments debunking why something is bunk. Supporters make threads with arguments trying to add things to pages. But both try to improve the quality of the pages.

But you don't. You use this as your personal kingdom of information where everyone is obligated to give whatever you want. You don't try to improve or help the pages, nor help anyone. And worst of all, this is all done out of self-admitted SPITE.

And you've been doing this for YEARS, something going into completely unrelated threads and derrailing it for pages on end demanding someone to answer whatever nitpick you cooked that week.

So you have to excuse me that I'm not proving a "positive" to you, because I don't respect you enough to do so. We have been in this dance far too long for me to go through it again.

That's why I only replied to the OP because there were actual good points, and I will only reply again when there's something worth to be replied to.

Peace.

 

[Alexander]

Well, that's kinda vague, so I guess my point still stands.

your point doesn't hold, in fact, it falls apart on its own.
Because if shahra had really helped sonic to get out of the arabic nights, she wouldn't have said that sonic ran until he got out of them.

 

[JJSliderman]

of course, if it is so "clear" then it is easily provable right? so do that, prove it, instead of just saying that it is

Firebird takes place in what appears to be a giant canyon area with a building size Phoenix, Chao in Space takes place in a realm full of stars. Their scale is objectively not the same when looking at the main purpose of each dream.

yes of course, if it is shown to be similar in size.....it doesn't mean that it is similar in size, yeah of course, that makes sense....not
considering that the argument is that the worlds themselves are shown of the same size instead of anything similar to a portal this comparison becomes useless and with no basis

Considering the characters were currently in a 4D space, a realm that transcends the dream worlds completely and being created by the godlike entity Illumina, all the worlds being portrayed as the same size makes sense because they’re all transcended equally. The microcosm representations of each world being the same size does not mean each world is the same size.

i sure hope you have prove for this, i will not take your word for it

Is the shape at 10:29 a Bull constellation, yes or no.

no they are not? the hell are you talking about?

The characters are not completely dwarfed by this star, which wouldn’t make sense if it was a real star meant to represent something similar to the sun, which is millions of times bigger than Earth.

they "can", but why WOULD they, why take another, more assumptions interpretation then the less assumptions, face value one? come on, show clear evidence instead of just listing possibilities please

The part in the OP and this at 9:41 are the only things somewhat resembling multiple galaxies, and even then they could also just be argued as nebulae, given the parts that could be argued as multiple galaxies are close enough to be touching, at least in the OP picture, which doesn’t make sense if they are real galaxies.

durability negation =/= one shot always when used, get that out of your head

Then how do we know it’s negating durability, if the fight plays out the exact same as every other fight in the game where Sonic didn’t have dura neg.

Then why don't ask for a source for the page instead of making of trying to remove it?

This isn't a job nor an obligation. This is a hobby for fun. And respect is needed here.

Opposers post threads with actual arguments debunking why something is bunk. Supporters make threads with arguments trying to add things to pages. But both try to improve the quality of the pages.

But you don't. You use this as your personal kingdom of information where everyone is obligated to give whatever you want. You don't try to improve or help the pages, nor help anyone. And worst of all, this is all done out of self-admitted SPITE.

It’s not spite lmao, I don’t get where you got the idea from. Me saying Sonic shouldn’t win or tie against Marvel god tiers (which is objectively true if you look at their feats) is not me hating on Sonic, it’s acknowledging his limitations. I don’t know how many times I have to say I like Sonic before it gets in but I do. I’ve been a fan since Heroes in 2004.

And frankly, you respecting me or not is irrelevant, it doesn’t take away from how there are completely unsourced claims that you have failed to adequately explain beyond using the same point of asking for evidence you chastise me for.

 

[CloverDragon03]

It’s not spite lmao, I don’t get where you got the idea from. Me saying Sonic shouldn’t win or tie against Marvel god tiers (which is objectively true if you look at their feats) is not me hating on Sonic, it’s acknowledging his limitations. I don’t know how many times I have to say I like Sonic before it gets in but I do. I’ve been a fan since Heroes in 2004.

My brother in Christ it's power scaling, what you think is not "objectively true." Claiming your opinion to be objective truth is bordering on arrogance.

Anyways count me as disagreeing FRA

 

[ShakeResounding]

Chaos Control should be noted in the profiles to work on others like Sonic (as shown in Forces when Shadow used Chaos Control) when he, Shadow himself, and Silver (+Classic Sonic & Metal) in White Space, as User mentioned in his first post above.

Since timeless voids don't automatically grant Resistance to Time Manipulation, it should be noted that White Space would be a specific case via Classic and Modern Sonic being stated to be accelerating time (and restoring their frozen friends should be proof of this).

So Chaos Control's layer stays, the justification just needs improvement.

 

[Lenyo456]

your point doesn't hold, in fact, it falls apart on its own.
Because if shahra had really helped sonic to get out of the arabic nights, she wouldn't have said that sonic ran until he got out of them.

I NEVER said Sharah sent Sonic back, just that she brought him

 

[Theuser789]

It’s not spite lmao, I don’t get where you got the idea from. Me saying Sonic shouldn’t win or tie against Marvel god tiers (which is objectively true if you look at their feats) is not me hating on Sonic, it’s acknowledging his limitations. I don’t know how many times I have to say I like Sonic before it gets in but I do. I’ve been a fan since Heroes in 2004.

I don't care if it's "objectively correct" or not, making threads to downgrade a character because you don't agree with certain matches is SPITE.

Honestly, with all of the behavior you showed these years, plus the admission it's done out of spite, there's plenty of ground to topic ban you from Sonic threads. So I would suggest for you to change that behavior and stop demanding things that you can't fulfil yourself.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Theuser789 Just letting you know, this is the same dude who kept ignoring so many blatant things for Metroid that shot his downgrade argument in the foot because he wanted everything spoon fed to him like the Ice beam being tier 6.

 

[omegabronic]

Firebird takes place in what appears to be a giant canyon area with a building size Phoenix

uhuh, and it also has a skybox with numerous stars, you are not really assuming that the areas the sonic cast visits of the dreams are the full scope of their size right?

Chao in Space takes place in a realm full of stars. Their scale is objectively not the same when looking at the main purpose of each dream.

well this is very wrong because 1 firebird has stars just like chao in space and 2 they, just like every dream world in maginary world, is shown to be of the same size as i have said numerous times making this really irrelevant

Considering the characters were currently in a 4D space, a realm that transcends the dream worlds completely

prove this?

and being created by the godlike entity Illumina

maginary world in of itself was created by illumina, so really moor point

, all the worlds being portrayed as the same size makes sense because they’re all transcended equally.

they are not transcended at all so no

The microcosm representations of each world being the same size does not mean each world is the same size.

if you will repeat yourself endlessly i shall do as well:
"yes of course, if it is shown to be similar in size.....it doesn't mean that it is similar in size, yeah of course, that makes sense....not"

Is the shape at 10:29 a Bull constellation, yes or no.

where was i suppose to be looking at? the constelation in the background? is that your proof that they are small? is perspective not a thing anymore?

The characters are not completely dwarfed by this star, which wouldn’t make sense if it was a real star meant to represent something similar to the sun, which is millions of times bigger than Earth.

it is far away from them, is perspective not a thing in your head?

The part in the OP and this at 9:41 are the only things somewhat resembling multiple galaxies, and even then they could also just be argued as nebulae, given the parts that could be argued as multiple galaxies are close enough to be touching, at least in the OP picture, which doesn’t make sense if they are real galaxies.

1 all is support for the other statements of universal dreams and 2 they look like galaxies, we see numerous diffent galaxies in every dream every time we go in a minigame, the sky is full of stars in a cosmic scale, none of this contradicts any of the universal statements, therefore it is really not a problem at all, having galaxies and stars supports the universal statements, see, you absolutely can't take things apart like that, they work together as proof

Then how do we know it’s negating durability

statements

if the fight plays out the exact same as every other fight in the game where Sonic didn’t have dura neg.

dark queen is resilient to damage, nothing more

It’s not spite lmao, I don’t get where you got the idea from. Me saying Sonic shouldn’t win or tie against Marvel god tiers (which is objectively true if you look at their feats) is not me hating on Sonic, it’s acknowledging his limitations. I don’t know how many times I have to say I like Sonic before it gets in but I do. I’ve been a fan since Heroes in 2004.

And frankly, you respecting me or not is irrelevant, it doesn’t take away from how there are completely unsourced claims that you have failed to adequately explain beyond using the same point of asking for evidence you chastise me for.

you thinking your OPINION on how sonic should be somehow being fact of his "limitations" is extremely arrogant and presumptions of your part, drop the attitude, you are not the know all of this franchise, your opinions are not sonic's limitations by default

 

[Theuser789]

@Theuser789 Just letting you know, this is the same dude who kept ignoring so many blatant things for Metroid that shot his downgrade argument in the foot because he wanted everything spoon fed to him like the Ice beam being tier 6.

Dude, this guy has done worse about Sonic for two years straight now. You should've seen the time he spammed downgrade attempts because people off-site disagreed with certain topics.

 

[JJSliderman]

I see literally nothing proving low-godly regen, all the other stuff I can get by just tweaking the justifications as you said, and someone already agreed on the removal of matter/antimatter for Sonic, but the low-godly regen just has nothing going for it currently other than using soul energy.

Dura neg also still seems pretty fishy to me, and I figure that maybe someone can take a look at the scenes here:

this at 9:41

and here:

Chao in Space, the area you see when transitioning to minigames in Shuffle (1:00:03), or here (2:24:01), or at 2:33:42, or 4:01:01, or 33:51, or 33:01, or 3:44:12.

To see if they qualify for Uni size visually by the standards here, if they do I can accept invididual dreams being uni. (And maybe show which specific ones meet those criteria in the reply)

uhuh, and it also has a skybox with numerous stars, you are not really assuming that the areas the sonic cast visits of the dreams are the full scope of their size right?

Yes, and usually those skyboxes just display MSS tier size and are in the background. Also, most of the time you only see stars in the non 4-D space dreams when the realm is cracking apart, and when the realm is fully restored after finishing the board, you generally can’t see any stars in the cutscene.

maginary world in of itself was created by illumina, so really moor point

they are not transcended at all so no

The point of Riot Train is they ascend upward in a train to reach a realm where every world appears as a flat image inside a much bigger realm, a bigger realm created by the supreme god of the world, I’d argue it’s on a higher level than the small dream worlds.

if you will repeat yourself endlessly i shall do as well:
"yes of course, if it is shown to be similar in size.....it doesn't mean that it is similar in size, yeah of course, that makes sense....not"

These are miniature representations of the worlds, not the full scope of the worlds the worlds themselves (given that the worlds appear as screens as big as the characters themselves), you can’t compare their full size based on these screens.

where was i suppose to be looking at? the constelation in the background? is that your proof that they are small? is perspective not a thing anymore?

It’s not in the background, they are literally walking across these constellations like the purple bull or the goat as they move along the gameboard.

it is far away from them, is perspective not a thing in your head?

They were falling into it, perspective shouldn’t be a thing if they truly fell in as it’s claimed on the pages.

1 all is support for the other statements of universal dreams and 2 they look like galaxies, we see numerous diffent galaxies in every dream every time we go in a minigame, the sky is full of stars in a cosmic scale, none of this contradicts any of the universal statements, therefore it is really not a problem at all, having galaxies and stars supports the universal statements, see, you absolutely can't take things apart like that, they work together as proof

If it’s agreed that there are multiple galaxies in any of the segments I showed above (with the exception of the one in 4D space as that’s the realm above and connecting all the dream worlds meaning it should be bigger by default), I’ll stop arguing about it.

statements


dark queen is resilient to damage, nothing more

How far does this have to stretch before just saying it’s not dura neg and is just a strong sword, we are given nothing visually to show Excalibur is dura neg beyond its statements and it’s use in a fight where it’s dura neg wasn’t even clearly visible.

you thinking your OPINION on how sonic should be somehow being fact of his "limitations" is extremely arrogant and presumptions of your part, drop the attitude, you are not the know all of this franchise, your opinions are not sonic's limitations by default

Okay, then I guess the opinions of everyone who thinks Scarlet Witch and Doom stomp the shit out of Sonic (which is like 90% of people who would debate at all), are also wrong.

I also haven’t spammed these threads, I made like 2 of them.

 

[omegabronic]

and someone already agreed on the removal of matter/antimatter for Sonic

people who disagreed matters not huh?

Dura neg also still seems pretty fishy to me, and I figure that maybe someone can take a look at the scenes here:

and here:

Chao in Space, the area you see when transitioning to minigames in Shuffle (1:00:03), or here (2:24:01), or at 2:33:42, or 4:01:01.

To see if they qualify for Uni size visually by the standards here, if they do I can accept invididual dreams being uni.

i find it incredibly surprising how you ignore all the universal statements provided, that use those scenes as support, just to use the support as a debunk when having stars in the sky doesn't disprove the universal statements that it is supporting, really, what does this matter for the universal statements? how does having a starry sky debunk the statement of them being universal? are you going to acctually cover anything anyone is telling you or will you just repeat yourself.....again?

Yes, and usually those skyboxes just display MSS tier size and are in the background.

newsflash, that is the same case for us when we look at our sky irl, is our universe MSS in size too? no, our universe has other proofs of it being universal in size, so nitpicking one part of the world in isolation, when said part is but support to a bunch of other statements does not work, stop taking things apart, cover them as a whole as they are meant to be covered

The point of Riot Train is they ascend upward in a train to reach a realm where every world appears as a flat image inside a much bigger realm, a bigger realm created by the supreme god of the world, I’d argue it’s on a higher level than the small dream worlds.

of course, you have any statements for "looking like flat images" or "bigger realm" right? you are not just talking in your own personal interpretation as if it was fact....RIGHT? honestly how you see your opinion on sonic's power as the absolute, i wouldn't doubt, anyway, bring any proof of what you just said or stop talking

These are miniature representations of the worlds, not the full scope of the worlds the worlds themselves (given that the worlds appear as screens as big as the characters themselves),

of course, you expect me to believe such ridiculous claim by your word alone without proof right? well i won't, and for the record, if they are being represented all in a reduced size, then if one was bigger it would still be bigger, no reason to assume it would represent them extremely differently from what they actually are just because you think so

you can’t compare their full size based on these screens.

what screens? the worlds are just floating there, there is no screen dude

It’s not in the background, they are literally walking across these constellations like the purple bull or the goat as they move along the gameboard.

wait, you are not talking about the drawing lights that have no stars in the board right? in what yards of hell are those stars constellations my guys lol

They were falling into it, perspective shouldn’t be a thing if they truly fell in as it’s claimed on the pages.

falling fast says what? the closer they get, gravity will attract them more and they will "fall" faster to reach it, honestly you are making even less sense now

If it’s agreed that there are multiple galaxies in any of the segments I showed above I’ll stop arguing about it.

ok then, stop

(with the exception of the one in 4D space as that’s the realm above and connecting all the dream worlds meaning it should be bigger by default),

prove any of this or stop

How far does this have to stretch before just saying it’s not dura neg and is just a strong sword, we are given nothing visually to show Excalibur is dura neg beyond its statements and it’s use in a fight where it’s dura neg wasn’t even clearly visible.

not being clearly visible =/= not being there, show something that actually contradicts it or stop

Okay, then I guess the opinions of everyone who thinks Scarlet Witch and Doom stomp the shit out of Sonic (which is like 90% of people who would debate at all), are also wrong.

oh my balling blue ******* Chaotic GOD, what part of this is you not understanding? THERE IS NO WRONG OR RIGHT IN A SUBJECTIVE MANNER SUCH AS VS DEBATING FICTION FRANCHISES, @CloverDragon03 said this to you, @ShakeResounding said this to you, @Theuser789 said this to you, and yet you still don't get it even when they say to your face, nothing anyone say will be right or wrong, SUBJECTIVE look it up pretty please

I also haven’t spammed these threads, I made like 2 of them.

never said you did, so stop

 

[JJSliderman]

people who disagreed matters not huh?

Sure but I think it needs to be proven Sonic was actually hit first in any way, since even his invincibility frames don’t kick in.

i find it incredibly surprising how you ignore all the universal statements provided, that use those scenes as support, just to use the support as a debunk when having stars in the sky doesn't disprove the universal statements that it is supporting, really, what does this matter for the universal statements? how does having a starry sky debunk the statement of them being universal? are you going to acctually cover anything anyone is telling you or will you just repeat yourself.....again?

In the case of dreams, visuals should take precedence over statements given the dreams aren’t real by default, and come from the perception of entities who don’t know the full scope of the universe.

newsflash, that is the same case for us when we look at our sky irl, is our universe MSS in size too? no, our universe has other proofs of it being universal in size, so nitpicking one part of the world in isolation, when said part is but support to a bunch of other statements does not work, stop taking things apart, cover them as a whole as they are meant to be covered

See above.

of course, you have any statements for "looking like flat images" or "bigger realm" right? you are not just talking in your own personal interpretation as if it was fact....RIGHT? honestly how you see your opinion on sonic's power as the absolute, i wouldn't doubt, anyway, bring any proof of what you just said or stop talking

of course, you expect me to believe such ridiculous claim by your word alone without proof right? well i won't, and for the record, if they are being represented all in a reduced size, then if one was bigger it would still be bigger, no reason to assume it would represent them extremely differently from what they actually are just because you think so

Tails says the worlds appear as images on a screen and all the worlds appear inside 4D space as separate entities, I think that proves both claims.
If the worlds are not being represented at their actual size, and we’re given indication that different worlds have different focuses, scopes via statements, etc., why is it assumed they are the same size. The concept of people having big or small dreams even applies to irl, not everyone has the same ambition or dream capacity.

what screens? the worlds are just floating there, there is no screen dude

The worlds appear as images on a screen according to Tails, those are his words.

wait, you are not talking about the drawing lights that have no stars in the board right? in what yards of hell are those stars constellations my guys lol

Because they’re based on constellations in the real world, a bull for Taurus, a goat/ram for Capricorn, etc.

falling fast says what? the closer they get, gravity will attract them more and they will "fall" faster to reach it, honestly you are making even less sense now

I’m saying these stars, even when the characters are close to them, are not the size of what most would perceive to be a standard star size.

ok then, stop

Which specific parts can you see multiple galaxies in, can you give the time stamp.

prove any of this or stop

The fact that all the worlds exist inside 4D space inherently proves 4D space is a bigger world than all the other dream worlds.

not being clearly visible =/= not being there, show something that actually contradicts it or stop

Why do you keep asking me to prove it doesn’t have dura neg, you should be proving it does, you have to prove the positive because the only source of dura neg is that one statement, which can just be flowery language or referring to Excalibur being strong and is still correct.

oh my balling blue ******* Chaotic GOD, what part of this is you not understanding? THERE IS NO WRONG OR RIGHT IN A SUBJECTIVE MANNER SUCH AS VS DEBATING FICTION FRANCHISES, @CloverDragon03 said this to you, @ShakeResounding said this to you, @Theuser789 said this to you, and yet you still don't get it even when they say to your face, nothing anyone say will be right or wrong, SUBJECTIVE look it up pretty please

Okay, then you’re not really any more right about what you claim either because your opinion is also subjective, what are you trying to say.

 

[omegabronic]

Sure but I think it needs to be proven Sonic was actually hit first in any way, since even his invincibility frames don’t kick in.

ignoring the reasoning given i see

In the case of dreams, visuals should take precedence over statements given the dreams aren’t real by default

in magirnary world they are real, so moot poing, again

, and come from the perception of entities who don’t know the full scope of the universe.

oh so now you are ignoring the reasoning i have given for why the perception of the person itself matters not then? ok

See above.

you should

Tails says the worlds appear as images on a screen

yeah, that is how he is perceiving them, but they clearly are 3D in there so.....not really a screen projections

and all the worlds appear inside 4D space as separate entities, I think that proves both claims.

will you explain how or..?

If the worlds are not being represented at their actual size

will you prove that at all or not?

, and we’re given indication that different worlds have different focuses, scopes via statements, etc.,

we don't have any of that so no

why is it assumed they are the same size. The concept of people having big or small dreams even applies to irl, not everyone has the same ambition or dream capacity.

dude, this is a magical place that makes every dream, no matter what, a world, one of the messages in the game is that there is no "bigger or smaller/less dreams" they are all equal in all accounts, which is the entirety of Void's and lumina's character arc, also, irl there is no such thing as "dream capacity" for how big you can dream places, you are now just making stuff up, also as i said, the dream world is not made by the person dreaming, therefore it is irrelevant, but of course, you ignored when i said that, as you always do

The worlds appear as images on a screen according to Tails, those are his words.

factually wrong, it was how tails perceived them emotionally speaking, but we clearly see that they are just as 3D and in there as any one of the chars

Because they’re based on constellations in the real world, a bull for Taurus, a goat/ram for Capricorn, etc.

Based on =/= actual, they don't even have stars at all, they are just color lines in the ground dude, plus they don't even look like the constellations at all

I’m saying these stars, even when the characters are close to them, are not the size of what most would perceive to be a standard star size.

show me a clip where the chars are close to them, perspective angle not included ok?

Which specific parts can you see multiple galaxies in, can you give the time stamp.

you already showed some of them, plus you said that if it is accepted that there is multiple then you would stop, well that is exactly what was accepted in the thread that upgraded it, therefore you shall stop by your own word

The fact that all the worlds exist inside 4D space inherently proves 4D space is a bigger world than all the other dream worlds.

oh so now you are saying that they all exist in it in of themselves? ok then, why did you said that they weren't back up then?

Why do you keep asking me to prove it doesn’t have dura neg, you should be proving it does

that is what the thread gave and you so far have given not a single contradiction or counter point other then "merlina wasn't one shot"

, you have to prove the positive because the only source of dura neg is that one statement, which can just be flowery language or referring to Excalibur being strong and is still correct.

others have given the reasoning for why it isn't above in the posts, so i will not bother repeating them again

Okay, then you’re not really any more right about what you claim either because your opinion is also subjective, what are you trying to say.

that you saying that you KNOW FOR A FACT that sonic shouldn't win against those, and that the only reason he won was because of HYPE is nothing more than your own bias, you not thinking that he could win and then blaming the other people who think he does of just "hyping him up", basically not accepting the possibility that they simply think different of you

 

[JJSliderman]

ignoring the reasoning given i see

the reasoning is that Sonic is just more resilient to antimatter, but the fact he just straight up passes right through with no reaction I believe is indicating he’s not even getting hit more than he is resisting it.

in magirnary world they are real, so moot poing, again

Real =/= exact match for real life counterpart.

oh so now you are ignoring the reasoning i have given for why the perception of the person itself matters not then? ok

It does matter, because the dreamer’s dreams are being used as the source for all the different worlds, their perception directly leads to all the worlds’ creation.

yeah, that is how he is perceiving them, but they clearly are 3D in there so.....not really a screen projections

They appear as screen projections in 4D space what are you not GETTING.

will you explain how or..?

The worlds are represented as separate disconnected spheres inside 4D space’s intro cutscene, you can see for yourself.

will you prove that at all or not?

The fact that the worlds appear as the same size as the main characters inside 4D space when the main characters didn’t even take up 1/50th of the world’s space when in the boards isn’t good enough?

we don't have any of that so no

You’ve been saying this entire time that statements make dreams Uni so ????

dude, this is a magical place that makes every dream, no matter what, a world, one of the messages in the game is that there is no "bigger or smaller/less dreams" they are all equal in all accounts, which is the entirety of Void's and lumina's character arc, also, irl there is no such thing as "dream capacity" for how big you can dream places, you are now just making stuff up, also as i said, the dream world is not made by the person dreaming, therefore it is irrelevant, but of course, you ignored when i said that, as you always do

The dream worlds are brought into reality by the Preciousstone, but what is being brought into reality is still coming from the dreamer. Otherwise, MW wouldn’t be “a world made from everyone’s dreams”. I’m also gonna need a source that dreams are stated to be all the same size and that it’s part of the game’s message, as Void’s arc is about overcoming loneliness, not feeling his dreams were inadequate.

factually wrong, it was how tails perceived them emotionally speaking, but we clearly see that they are just as 3D and in there as any one of the chars

No, from the perspective of those in 4D space they appeared as flat images, and that’s how we perceive them too in 4D space cutscenes.

Based on =/= actual, they don't even have stars at all, they are just color lines in the ground dude, plus they don't even look like the constellations at all

They literally look like the animals of their requisite constellations and are clearly meant to be portrayed as constellations, given their designs and the fact they occupy the most space-like level in the game.

show me a clip where the chars are close to them, perspective angle not included ok?

I showed you a clip, it’s the characters falling into a star, even with perspective the characters should still appear as dwarfed by the star if the star is indeed millions to billions of times larger than the main characters.

you already showed some of them, plus you said that if it is accepted that there is multiple then you would stop, well that is exactly what was accepted in the thread that upgraded it, therefore you shall stop by your own word

That doesn’t mean anything to me, just tell me which specific parts of the game show multiple galaxies in non-4D space with a time stamp and I’ll move on.

oh so now you are saying that they all exist in it in of themselves? ok then, why did you said that they weren't back up then?

I have no idea what you’re saying, the worlds are inside 4D space yes.

that is what the thread gave and you so far have given not a single contradiction or counter point other then "merlina wasn't one shot"

Merlina is the only fight Excalibur was used in, it not dura negging her means it didn’t dura neg anyone from what we can tell.

others have given the reasoning for why it isn't above in the posts, so i will not bother repeating them again

The only reason given was it’s based on the Arthurian legends, which means nothing. The same reasoning of the sword being stronger than everything else can apply there too.

that you saying that you KNOW FOR A FACT that sonic shouldn't win against those, and that the only reason he won was because of HYPE is nothing more than your own bias, you not thinking that he could win and then blaming the other people who think he does of just "hyping him up", basically not accepting the possibility that they simply think different of you

I have never claimed he won because of hype, just I don’t buy him winning from what I know. Idk why you keep focusing on this like I’m using it as the sole reasoning but okay.

 

[omegabronic]

the reasoning is that Sonic is just more resilient to antimatter, but the fact he just straight up passes right through with no reaction I believe is indicating he’s not even getting hit more than he is resisting it.

why is that?

Real =/= exact match for real life counterpart.

real = equal to reality, therefore yes, it is what it means no matter how you want to deny it

It does matter, because the dreamer’s dreams are being used as the source for all the different worlds, their perception directly leads to all the worlds’ creation.

the dreams are taken by illumina and then molded into dream worlds based on what said person dream off, the dreamers perception is not relevant since he is not the one making the dreamworld in the first place

They appear as screen projections in 4D space what are you not GETTING.

will you explain or will you just continue to say things you think are obvious but that actually means nothing?

The worlds are represented as separate disconnected spheres inside 4D space’s intro cutscene, you can see for yourself.

again, will you explain why that "prove both claims"?

The fact that the worlds appear as the same size as the main characters inside 4D space when the main characters didn’t even take up 1/50th of the world’s space when in the boards isn’t good enough?

will you prove this? because i can't see that in the cutscene itself

You’ve been saying this entire time that statements make dreams Uni so ????

oh my god you can't be this bad at interpreting text, you claimed that they have different scopes/sizes via statments, i said that there isn't, why are you bringing the unralated universal statements into an questioning of an affirmation you did?

The dream worlds are brought into reality by the Preciousstone, but what is being brought into reality is still coming from the dreamer. Otherwise, MW wouldn’t be “a world made from everyone’s dreams”.

will you explain why so? i see no contradiction, people dream, illumina takes dream and makes it a dreamworld into reality, nothing of what you just said really matters for this at all

I’m also gonna need a source that dreams are stated to be all the same size

you know the proof, i have sent it, stop ignoring it just because you don't like it

and that it’s part of the game’s message, as Void’s arc is about overcoming loneliness, not feeling his dreams were inadequate.

he is a dream that lumina wants to go away because he is "bad"/lesser, the arc is about her accepting him as a normal dream like anyone else and then refusing with him to become illumina again

No, from the perspective of those in 4D space they appeared as flat images, and that’s how we perceive them too in 4D space cutscenes.

you are once again, factually wrong

They literally look like the animals of their requisite constellations and are clearly meant to be portrayed as constellations

if they were they would have stars, they don't, they are nothing but decorations that represent the constellations, nothing more, this is like saying that a star is small because a drawing i made in my wall of one is small

, given their designs and the fact they occupy the most space-like level in the game.

feeble, not evident similarities at best

I showed you a clip, it’s the characters falling into a star, even with perspective the characters should still appear as dwarfed by the star if the star is indeed millions to billions of times larger than the main characters.

you mean the perspective angle that cuts as they are falling and we never see them close to the star? is that your "evidence"? again, perspective angles are a thing

That doesn’t mean anything to me, just tell me which specific parts of the game show multiple galaxies in non-4D space with a time stamp and I’ll move on.

it meaning nothing to you matters not, the world doesn't revolve around you

I have no idea what you’re saying, the worlds are inside 4D space yes.

you said that they weren't really there, but that they were just "projected" in a screen

Merlina is the only fight Excalibur was used in, it not dura negging her means it didn’t dura neg anyone from what we can tell.

says who? also, the dura neg is the final meteor blows at the end of the fight, you don't even know what you are arguing do you?

The only reason given was it’s based on the Arthurian legends, which means nothing. The same reasoning of the sword being stronger than everything else can apply there too.

but clearly isn't given the context of it provided in the thread you keep ignoring, as usual

I have never claimed he won because of hype

don't you lie, you did

, just I don’t buy him winning from what I know. Idk why you keep focusing on this like I’m using it as the sole reasoning but okay.

because you keep denying that it is bias when it factually is

 

[JJSliderman]

why is that?

Even people who take no damage from an attack at least register an attack was aimed at them, Sonic just doesn’t, he doesn’t even try to dodge or anything.

real = equal to reality, therefore yes, it is what it means no matter how you want to deny it

Real just means it’s something that exists beyond the mindscape, anything more than that needs to be proven.

the dreams are taken by illumina and then molded into dream worlds based on what said person dream off, the dreamers perception is not relevant since he is not the one making the dreamworld in the first place

Never stated.

will you explain or will you just continue to say things you think are obvious but that actually means nothing?

My brother in Christ, they literally SAY it in game; what more do you need.

again, will you explain why that "prove both claims"?

Claim 1, the 4D space is bigger than the individual dream worlds, is proven by how said worlds only occupy a fraction of the 4D space’s total volume. Claim 2, the fact they appear as images on a screen, is said in-game.

will you prove this? because i can't see that in the cutscene itself

You can literally see the characters running around inside the boards when they’re in the worlds, and compare their size to the worlds vs when they’re in 4D space and looking at similar worlds from the outside, there is a very clear difference in the size comparisons.

oh my god you can't be this bad at interpreting text, you claimed that they have different scopes/sizes via statments, i said that there isn't, why are you bringing the unralated universal statements into an questioning of an affirmation you did?

Because if you’re going to use the statements, I can also use them to show that people have different scopes with their dreams.

will you explain why so? i see no contradiction, people dream, illumina takes dream and makes it a dreamworld into reality, nothing of what you just said really matters for this at all

We also have no statement that Illumina is altering the dreams, and in fact the whole point of the game is stopping someone who is trying to alter dreams, so Illumina also doing it goes against the core message you just mentioned.

you know the proof, i have sent it, stop ignoring it just because you don't like it

No, because there is no statement as such, people extrapolated it from the 4D space dream world representations.

he is a dream that lumina wants to go away because he is "bad"/lesser, the arc is about her accepting him as a normal dream like anyone else and then refusing with him to become illumina again

Him being a bad dream does not equal being a “lesser” dream, if anything him overpowering and killing all the other dreams proves he’s a bigger dream.

you are once again, factually wrong

No, because they are portrayed as flat images inside the spheres, and they’re still not actual size unless you wanna say the characters grew to universe size.

if they were they would have stars, they don't, they are nothing but decorations that represent the constellations, nothing more, this is like saying that a star is small because a drawing i made in my wall of one is small

You can actually see stars in the constellations (5:40:20)

feeble, not evident similarities at best

Why would they choose such specific animals like a bull and a goat, and only put these in the space level where constellations exist in reality, if they weren’t meant to be constellations?

you mean the perspective angle that cuts as they are falling and we never see them close to the star? is that your "evidence"? again, perspective angles are a thing

We literally see them as close to the star as you can get, they’re far below the platform.

it meaning nothing to you matters not, the world doesn't revolve around you

If you can’t give me the exact timeframe, then I’m forced to conclude you don’t actually have any showings and are just propping your argument on other people.

you said that they weren't really there, but that they were just "projected" in a screen

Because they are, these worlds are projected on a screen.

says who? also, the dura neg is the final meteor blows at the end of the fight, you don't even know what you are arguing do you?

You mean the final blow after Sonic had already landed dozens of hits prior? Yeah, no.

but clearly isn't given the context of it provided in the thread you keep ignoring, as usual

There is no other context, stop lying or provide this “other context”

don't you lie, you did

No I didn’t, I just said his wins were unearned which I still consider as true based on the characters he matched up against. I also noticed these arguments I had issues with and wanted to offer my take.

because you keep denying that it is bias when it factually is

Bias would imply I like these other characters more than Sonic when I don’t.

 

[JJSliderman]

I’d also like to point out that literally no one brought up anything to support low-godly, so until further notice I’m gonna chalk it up as it not existing

 

[omegabronic]

Even people who take no damage from an attack at least register an attack was aimed at them, Sonic just doesn’t, he doesn’t even try to dodge or anything.

anti matter is not brute force, if he is imune he would simply pass through it

Real just means it’s something that exists beyond the mindscape, anything more than that needs to be proven.

it means that it is as real as anything else in the real world

Never stated.

the dreamer's inteligence affecting the dream is also never stated, yet you still affirms it as if it was

My brother in Christ, they literally SAY it in game; what more do you need.

ignoring my explanation of how they don't i see, if you want to repeat yourself be my guest, they are 3D objects in there and not 2D projections, we can see that clearly

Claim 1, the 4D space is bigger than the individual dream worlds, is proven by how said worlds only occupy a fraction of the 4D space’s total volume.

new claim, new request by me, prove this

Claim 2, the fact they appear as images on a screen, is said in-game.

by tails, which is visually not what they look like in game they are not 2D projections, they are there in 3D

You can literally see the characters running around inside the boards when they’re in the worlds, and compare their size to the worlds vs when they’re in 4D space

and looking at similar worlds from the outside, there is a very clear difference in the size comparisons.

my dude stop repeating things and SHOW ME a clip where they are shown to be the sized of the dreams, seriously, i am asking for proof and you are just repeating yourself over and over again, there is nothing for me to say when you refuse to show me any clip proving what you are saying

Because if you’re going to use the statements, I can also use them to show that people have different scopes with their dreams.

see that is the problem, you haven't shown ANY statements about the "scope" of the dream being "smaller" at all, you haven't proven anything, you just said stuff without any source

We also have no statement that Illumina is altering the dreams

when have i said that she is?

, and in fact the whole point of the game is stopping someone who is trying to alter dreams, so Illumina also doing it goes against the core message you just mentioned.

again, when have i said that she is altering them?

No, because there is no statement as such, people extrapolated it from the 4D space dream world representations.

my dude, you said they look 2D, i showed a clip where it is clearly shown that they are 3D, just saying "no" will not make what you said any less wrong

Him being a bad dream does not equal being a “lesser” dream, if anything him overpowering and killing all the other dreams proves he’s a bigger dream.

no it doesn't, tf are you even arguing rn?

No, because they are portrayed as flat images inside the spheres

no they are not, factually wrong, admit it and move on

, and they’re still not actual size unless you wanna say the characters grew to universe size.

oh yeah, you keep saying that, waiting for proof tho

You can actually see stars in the constellations (5:40:20)

where? i only see the stars in the background and nothing more, nothing on the colored paintings- oops, i am sorry, "constellations"

Why would they choose such specific animals like a bull and a goat, and only put these in the space level where constellations exist in reality, if they weren’t meant to be constellations?

for the same reason an artists may choose to paint them in an arts gallery, to look cool, there is nothing but your own opinion that they are constellations, no scan, no statement, nothing but "i think that they are so they are" therefore if you repeat this again, i will ignore it since it has no basis whatsoever

We literally see them as close to the star as you can get, they’re far below the platform.

no we don't, again, perspective is a thing

If you can’t give me the exact timeframe, then I’m forced to conclude you don’t actually have any showings and are just propping your argument on other people.

you already did so, even with the timeframe

Because they are, these worlds are projected on a screen.

factually wrong

You mean the final blow after Sonic had already landed dozens of hits prior? Yeah, no.

any proof outside of your disbelief? no? ok

There is no other context, stop lying or provide this “other context”

see in the thread that added it yourself dude, i don't have any obligations

No I didn’t, I just said his wins were unearned which I still consider as true based on the characters he matched up against. I also noticed these arguments I had issues with and wanted to offer my take.

Fastest Thing Alive vs A Sponge! (Sonic vs Spongebob) 11-4-2

“Threatening to end all of time” Yeah, during his fight time still existed, which is stilm true with all other time lines destroyed “From the corners of the shattered spacetime” (likely referring to the pocket intersection here) This matters very little “as Solaris destroys all of...

vsbattles.com

"it’s total wank and it’s this kind of thing that is the reason why I argue against Sonic getting all these arguments that boost him"
saying that sonic only won because he is "wanked" by the supporters, thus saying that he only wins because he is "hyped" by them, while admiting that you only argue against him because your favorite chars lost and you don't like that, but yeah, no bias at all, no, can you imagine? wow

Bias would imply I like these other characters more than Sonic when I don’t.

that is not what bias is and you know it

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Yeah, agree with Theuser and omegabronic.

 

[JJSliderman]

anti matter is not brute force, if he is imune he would simply pass through it

It’s still meant to be an attack with force behind it, seeing as it shatters rock to pieces.

it means that it is as real as anything else in the real world

Okay, doesn’t prove it’s same size though.

the dreamer's inteligence affecting the dream is also never stated, yet you still affirms it as if it was

Because the worlds are made from the dreamers original desires, if you argue the worlds originate from MW because MW is the source of all dreams like the Encyclospeedia claims, then there’s no way to tell how many worlds there are in MW, so it arguably still wouldn’t be 2-A

ignoring my explanation of how they don't i see, if you want to repeat yourself be my guest, they are 3D objects in there and not 2D projections, we can see that clearly

No, inside the spheres are 2D projections, those are the worlds.

new claim, new request by me, prove this

Are you actually blind, because it’s so obvious here at 5:12:50

by tails, which is visually not what they look like in game they are not 2D projections, they are there in 3D

If they were in 3D the characters would say so, they occupy the same space we see and can move around in all directions, they could look around the world projections and see if they were 3D. This also doesn’t show they are the same size they are in the board game gameplay.

my dude stop repeating things and SHOW ME a clip where they are shown to be the sized of the dreams, seriously, i am asking for proof and you are just repeating yourself over and over again, there is nothing for me to say when you refuse to show me any clip proving what you are saying

I posted a clip earlier in this comment of the worlds size in 4D space, at 4:16:54 in the same video is the world’s size within the worlds themselves. Very clearly, not the same size.

see that is the problem, you haven't shown ANY statements about the "scope" of the dream being "smaller" at all, you haven't proven anything, you just said stuff without any source

Amy’s dream is about a day at the beach, Knuckles’ saying the world felt like a dream in the Rise of Infinite series only shows said world extending the length of Angel Island, these are not Uni sized.

when have i said that she is?

You’re arguing Illumina makes the worlds the same size as their real life inspiration no matter what the dream says, which would require altering the dreams’ size if the dreamer couldn’t perceive the full scope of said inspiration.

no it doesn't, tf are you even arguing rn?

You’re arguing Void is somehow perceived as a smaller or lesser dream even when it could eclipse every single other dream and destroy all of them.

no they are not, factually wrong, admit it and move on

Why, Tails outright said it and he’s closer to the spheres than the watcher of the video.

where? i only see the stars in the background and nothing more, nothing on the colored paintings- oops, i am sorry, "constellations"

Did you not see the 5 pointed star inside those constellations? It’s pretty clear to me.

for the same reason an artists may choose to paint them in an arts gallery, to look cool, there is nothing but your own opinion that they are constellations, no scan, no statement, nothing but "i think that they are so they are" therefore if you repeat this again, i will ignore it since it has no basis whatsoever

Their aesthetic quality or lack thereof is irrelevant, we have to judge them on what they’re intended to be, and it’s pretty clear by their design and placement that they’re representations of constellations.

no we don't, again, perspective is a thing

Perspective can’t make the size gap go from millions of times to 20-30 when the two objects are only a few meters away.

you already did so, even with the timeframe

Mate, if you just say the specific ones (like numerically), then I will accept it if the majority also accepts those.

any proof outside of your disbelief? no? ok

Did, did you not watch the fight and Sonic landing multiple hits in every phase using soul surge?

see in the thread that added it yourself dude, i don't have any obligations

The thread’s arguments were based on a tweet theorizing Meteor Charge was the move that cut through anything (which is never stated), and that Sonic finished off Merlina with a single hit using this move, completely ignoring that Merlina was likely weakened by the dozens of hits Sonic did prior. And then brings up quotes about it cutting through anything, which again can be done by the sword just being really strong and not dura neg.

Fastest Thing Alive vs A Sponge! (Sonic vs Spongebob) 11-4-2

“Threatening to end all of time” Yeah, during his fight time still existed, which is stilm true with all other time lines destroyed “From the corners of the shattered spacetime” (likely referring to the pocket intersection here) This matters very little “as Solaris destroys all of...

vsbattles.com

"it’s total wank and it’s this kind of thing that is the reason why I argue against Sonic getting all these arguments that boost him"
saying that sonic only won because he is "wanked" by the supporters, thus saying that he only wins because he is "hyped" by them, while admiting that you only argue against him because your favorite chars lost and you don't like that, but yeah, no bias at all, no, can you imagine? wow

I literally said I have only a baseline surface level attachment to those characters, stop claiming they’re my “favorite characters”.

that is not what bias is and you know it

Then inform me what it is.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah, disagree with the OP FRA.

I’m sorry, where is the evidence for low godly regen or Sonic resisting antimatter/matter hax that doesn’t even visibly affect him.

 

[omegabronic]

I’m sorry, where is the evidence for low godly regen or Sonic resisting antimatter/matter hax that doesn’t even visibly affect him.

FRA = For Reasons Above, therefore read the replies above and you will see

 

[JJSliderman]

There was, no sources for low godly at all.

And the antimatter stuff I think is pretty iffy considering that Sonic can be hurt in that fight and yet he just phases through the antimatter.

 

[Theuser789]

I’m sorry, where is the evidence for low godly regen or Sonic resisting antimatter/matter hax that doesn’t even visibly affect him.

The source is the arguments you didn't bother to post.

 

[omegabronic]

It’s still meant to be an attack with force behind it, seeing as it shatters rock to pieces.

yeah, erasing the rocks with antimatter would make the non erased parts fall apart yes, your point is?

Okay, doesn’t prove it’s same size though.

it does, and i am tired of keep repeating why it does just because you refuse to acknowledge it because of your personal opinion, will start ignoring this until you provide any proof for what you are saying

Because the worlds are made from the dreamers original desires, if you argue the worlds originate from MW because MW is the source of all dreams like the Encyclospeedia claims, then there’s no way to tell how many worlds there are in MW, so it arguably still wouldn’t be 2-A

yes there is, as many worlds as people can dream, since people.......CAN dream, see how easy it is?

No, inside the spheres are 2D projections, those are the worlds.

the spheres ARE the worlds

Are you actually blind, because it’s so obvious here at 5:12:50

they are traveling though it and seeing dream worlds along the way......sorry, what i am supposed to be seeing here?

If they were in 3D the characters would say so

irrelevant when we see that they are, next

, they occupy the same space we see and can move around in all directions, they could look around the world projections and see if they were 3D. This also doesn’t show they are the same size they are in the board game gameplay.

no idea of what you are arguing at all at this point

I posted a clip earlier in this comment of the worlds size in 4D space, at 4:16:54 in the same video is the world’s size within the worlds themselves. Very clearly, not the same size.

are you actually using the worlds in the background as proof of their size? again, is perspective really not a thing for you?

Amy’s dream is about a day at the beach

so?

Knuckles’ saying the world felt like a dream in the Rise of Infinite series only shows said world extending the length of Angel Island, these are not Uni sized.

what it is shown =/= the full scope, plus it still had the sky and the sun and a past seen in time travel

You’re arguing Illumina makes the worlds the same size as their real life inspiration no matter what the dream says

nope, maginary world = source of dreams, therefore it molds them since it is what makes them in the first place

, which would require altering the dreams’ size if the dreamer couldn’t perceive the full scope of said inspiration.

why would the dreamer need to? again, i have been asking this and you kept not answering

You’re arguing Void is somehow perceived as a smaller or lesser dream even when it could eclipse every single other dream and destroy all of them.

yeah, because he is a nightmare made of negative emotion dreams that lumina wants destroyed since it isn't essential to maginary world, aka lesser

Why, Tails outright said it and he’s closer to the spheres than the watcher of the video.

you wouldn't mind showing that he says that, right?

Did you not see the 5 pointed star inside those constellations? It’s pretty clear to me.

.................first off, no i didn't at all, and secondly, why would a 5 pointed star that doesn't resemble a real star showed in the game be proof of anything at all outside of that just being decoration?

Their aesthetic quality or lack thereof is irrelevant, we have to judge them on what they’re intended to be, and it’s pretty clear by their design and placement that they’re representations of constellations.

i disagree with you, they are clearly just decoration that are not meant to be real constellations, hence why they are not very big in comparison to sonic and co, your claim that they are is nonsensical when they are shown to not be very big in comparison to the 1 meter tall hedgehog, just stop

Perspective can’t make the size gap go from millions of times to 20-30 when the two objects are only a few meters away.

can you stop making stupid claims such as "a star is 30 meters away from the 1 meter tall hedgehog and not dwarfing him" without posting any proof for it? it doesn't help your case

Mate, if you just say the specific ones (like numerically), then I will accept it if the majority also accepts those.

this at 9:41

Did, did you not watch the fight and Sonic landing multiple hits in every phase using soul surge?

yeah? so? how does that correlate to you just answering my point with "no" and then me just saying, "cool, no proof then"?

I literally said I have only a baseline surface level attachment to those characters, stop claiming they’re my “favorite characters”.

which makes it even more bias because you are saying that the fact that sonic beat those made you upset even tho you don't even like then, good way to fall even down lower into the pit

Then inform me what it is.

"prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair." which is exactly what you are doing to sonic and what you basically admited in your message

 

[omegabronic]

There was, no sources for low godly at all.

And the antimatter stuff I think is pretty iffy considering that Sonic can be hurt in that fight and yet he just phases through the antimatter.

you can think that all you want, newsflash, people can have different opinions and think other things

 

[JJSliderman]

The source is the arguments you didn't bother to post.

There are no arguments for low godly, the only justification is stating that Sonic uses the soul gauge to revive and extrapolating that as Sonic reviving from his soul.

yeah, erasing the rocks with antimatter would make the non erased parts fall apart yes, your point is?

But, the entire rock is affected, there shouldn’t be any “non-erased” parts.

it does, and i am tired of keep repeating why it does just because you refuse to acknowledge it because of your personal opinion, will start ignoring this until you provide any proof for what you are saying

My dude, they aren’t the same size because these dreams focus on different concepts, some of which just so happen to not be universes. A dream about a beach is a factually smaller dream than one about outer space.

yes there is, as many worlds as people can dream, since people.......CAN dream, see how easy it is?

So if the dreams come from Maginaryworld, your argument is that they aren’t bound by perception of humanity.

Actually that makes sense ig, nothing contradicts the dreams coming from Maginaryworld, and it’s likely that Illumina can make universes since she created MW. Fair point. That said, I still don’t see why all dreams should all be the same size

the spheres ARE the worlds

Then the worlds just appear as super tiny in 4D space, further exemplifying they have inferiority to the 4D space

they are traveling though it and seeing dream worlds along the way......sorry, what i am supposed to be seeing here?

I’m just saying that if the worlds were 3D Tails wouldn’t have said they were like images on a screen, which is a 2D concept. And I was just showing that the worlds factually occupy less total space than 4D space’s entirety, seeing as there are clear spatial gaps between what are the representation of dream worlds in this space.

are you actually using the worlds in the background as proof of their size? again, is perspective really not a thing for you?

Mfer there is no perspective, Amy is literally not even half the size of the worlds when inside them, yet stretches across the entire length of the world when in 4D space, they are not the same size in and out of the world.

what it is shown =/= the full scope, plus it still had the sky and the sun and a past seen in time travel

Idk why we’re arguing this actually, Knuckles stating that it was like a dream is as clear a metaphor/simile as you can get, this should not be evidence. And either way, Star/sky does not equal universe.

nope, maginary world = source of dreams, therefore it molds them since it is what makes them in the first place

You’re right on this admittedly, it makes sense.

yeah, because he is a nightmare made of negative emotion dreams that lumina wants destroyed since it isn't essential to maginary world, aka lesser

Or maybe Void needs to be destroyed because it would destroy the entire world, not because it’s “lesser”.

you wouldn't mind showing that he says that, right?

You can see for yourself in the cutscene where the characters first get to 4D space, I posted it enough times

.................first off, no i didn't at all, and secondly, why would a 5 pointed star that doesn't resemble a real star showed in the game be proof of anything at all outside of that just being decoration?

You wanted a star, there’s a star. Most stars in this game are portrayed as simple dots, this seems like an improvement in that it’s an explicit star shape.

i disagree with you, they are clearly just decoration that are not meant to be real constellations, hence why they are not very big in comparison to sonic and co, your claim that they are is nonsensical when they are shown to not be very big in comparison to the 1 meter tall hedgehog, just stop

You mean like how the universes made from dream worlds appear as 3 foot spheres in 4D space?

can you stop making stupid claims such as "a star is 30 meters away from the 1 meter tall hedgehog and not dwarfing him" without posting any proof for it? it doesn't help your case

All I can do is point out the size comparison, which is decidedly not the same as an average star vs Sonic’s height from what we see.

this at 9:41

Yes, the 4D space example, which is much bigger than the main dream worlds and therefore having bigger cosmology is justified, it doesn’t prove the smaller dream worlds are all Uni size.

yeah? so? how does that correlate to you just answering my point with "no" and then me just saying, "cool, no proof then"?

The argument it was dura neg hinges on Sonic winning the fight in one blow, which he didn’t.

which makes it even more bias because you are saying that the fact that sonic beat those made you upset even tho you don't even like then, good way to fall even down lower into the pit

It doesn’t make me upset, I just think it’s wrong. Can I not think things are wrong just because I looked at the feats and came to that conclusion? No, it has to always lead back to bias, piss off.

"prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair." which is exactly what you are doing to sonic and what you basically admited in your message

I don’t have to justify myself to you, if you think I have a prejudice, then godspeed to you.

you can think that all you want, newsflash, people can have different opinions and think other things

Please, show a source of legit low godly from Shahra’s ring.

 

[Angelzewolf]

The only one I can see the argument for is Anti-Matter.

Everything else I disagree with for the reasons stated already. (I'm pretty sure Dream Depot and Maginaryworld aren't even in the same level? I only saw the evidence in the downgrade thread, so maybe it had more. But from what I did see, Maginary World had more details presented)

Shaara stuff I'm neutral on. I played the game recently but was too frustrated to pay attention to anything outside the cutscenes. Screw the final boss, nearly snapped my wrist with all that shaking

 

[JJSliderman]

As of rn I’d say I’m fine with the BFR, time stop, and power null staying as they are (even if it’s more like barrier and attack null). Maginaryworld I’m split on cuz I agree that individual worlds can be legit Uni size but not that every world is exactly the same size. And I disagree with matter and antimatter manip resistance for Sonic and low godly regen and dura neg for Excalibur.

 

[omegabronic]

But, the entire rock is affected, there shouldn’t be any “non-erased” parts.

it only hits certain parts, hence why there is still parts of it there

My dude, they aren’t the same size because these dreams focus on different concepts, some of which just so happen to not be universes.

some are based on different concepts =/= they aren't of the same size, specially when they are show to be when shown on side with one another

A dream about a beach is a factually smaller dream than one about outer space.

does said beach still has a starry sky adn outer? if i don't see why would it, since it would already not be only beach sized

So if the dreams come from Maginaryworld, your argument is that they aren’t bound by perception of humanity.

Actually that makes sense ig, nothing contradicts the dreams coming from Maginaryworld, and it’s likely that Illumina can make universes since she created MW. Fair point. That said, I still don’t see why all dreams should all be the same size

well i do, good thing i could make you see another point tho, that's good

Then the worlds just appear as super tiny in 4D space, further exemplifying they have inferiority to the 4D space

do you want to argue for low 1-C 4D space? because that is where we are going with this, but also, where is the proof that they are tiny?

I’m just saying that if the worlds were 3D Tails wouldn’t have said they were like images on a screen, which is a 2D concept.

tails talking an expression of what he is feeling by looking at it can be non literal you know?

And I was just showing that the worlds factually occupy less total space than 4D space’s entirety, seeing as there are clear spatial gaps between what are the representation of dream worlds in this space.

ok, but why does this matter for the dreams themselves?

Mfer there is no perspective, Amy is literally not even half the size of the worlds when inside them, yet stretches across the entire length of the world when in 4D space, they are not the same size in and out of the world.

you keep saying that they do that without showing me a scene where what you are saying happens, i so far have saw no scenes outside of perspectives angles to say that the dream worlds are of the size of the characters

Idk why we’re arguing this actually, Knuckles stating that it was like a dream is as clear a metaphor/simile as you can get, this should not be evidence.

he said that even tho he went to maginary world and knows that dreams become dream worlds, if he who knows that considers time travel to be a legit dream possibility, then yes it would be proof

And either way, Star/sky does not equal universe.

it does indicate that the "scope" of the dream matters not, or else a "florest dream" wouldn't have starry skies in it

You’re right on this admittedly, it makes sense.

goodo

Or maybe Void needs to be destroyed because it would destroy the entire world, not because it’s “lesser”.

yeah, which he does because lumina didn't think he was needed, a useless dream and being

You can see for yourself in the cutscene where the characters first get to 4D space, I posted it enough times

yeah, it is because i watched it that i say i have still no idea what you are talking about

You wanted a star, there’s a star. Most stars in this game are portrayed as simple dots

yeah, because that is how stars look irl when they are far away from us, we see a star closer and it is a ball of fire just like the ones irl, you can't be serious rn

, this seems like an improvement in that it’s an explicit star shape.

have you.......have you ever saw a star irl? it a sphere, even in shuffle that is how it looks like, a sphere

You mean like how the universes made from dream worlds appear as 3 foot spheres in 4D space?

still no idea how and where you got that from, they definitely don't seen like that in the 4D space cutscenes, they just look to be far away

All I can do is point out the size comparison, which is decidedly not the same as an average star vs Sonic’s height from what we see.

how can you compare it if you don't know how far away it is?

Yes, the 4D space example, which is much bigger than the main dream worlds and therefore having bigger cosmology is justified, it doesn’t prove the smaller dream worlds are all Uni size.

one being bigger matters not from the fact that all of them are shown to be of the same size

The argument it was dura neg hinges on Sonic winning the fight in one blow, which he didn’t.

no it wasn't tf?

It doesn’t make me upset, I just think it’s wrong. Can I not think things are wrong just because I looked at the feats and came to that conclusion? No, it has to always lead back to bias, piss off.

you can think that, but when you affirm that you only argue against sonic because of that, then it becomes bias

I don’t have to justify myself to you, if you think I have a prejudice, then godspeed to you.

ok then, be like that

Please, show a source of legit low godly from Shahra’s ring.

@Theuser789 has said it already

 

[Theuser789]

As of rn I’d say I’m fine with the BFR, time stop, and power null staying as they are (even if it’s more like barrier and attack null). Maginaryworld I’m split on cuz I agree that individual worlds can be legit Uni size but not that every world is exactly the same size. And I disagree with matter and antimatter manip resistance for Sonic and low godly regen and dura neg for Excalibur.

Bro, nobody cares on what you're "fine" with or not. This thread is for YOU to CONVINCE others to remove abilities, not for others to convince you that the abilities are right or not like you are the owner of the wikia.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I'll be more specific with my stance on this thread. I disagree with everything in the OP FRA except for Antimatter Manipulation for Sonic (I'm neutral) FRA.

That being said, I agree with JJ on Low-Godly. It's not a passive effect of Sonic constantly regenerating, and thus it's Resurrection of a soul-based variety. This was agreed upon in his previous thread, and JJ's dubious reasonings for creating this thread should be cast aside.

We should also try and tone down the hostilities within this thread, even if there's some bad faith. Please, let's keep this civil.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

Shake and User seem to be making the most sense here. Shake's comments in particular about some things that need to be tweaked seems to be what should be the result of this thread.

The antimatter resistance could be changed to a possibly/likely to better reflect the uncertainty behind the resistance. I do think there's some merit in what JJ is saying on that point.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

We should also try and tone down the hostilities within this thread, even if there's some bad faith. Please, let's keep this civil.

Agreed

 

[JJSliderman]

it only hits certain parts, hence why there is still parts of it there

No, it hits the whole rock, I don’t know where you’re getting this from.

some are based on different concepts =/= they aren't of the same size, specially when they are show to be when shown on side with one another

at this point I’m just gonna say I disagree if it’s based on the orbs in 4D space cuz I can tell this isn’t going anywhere.

does said beach still has a starry sky adn outer? if i don't see why would it, since it would already not be only beach sized

Yes, having a starry sky is not grounds for Uni though.
do you want to argue for low 1-C 4D space? because that is where we are going with this, but also, where is the proof that they are tiny?

The proof they’re tiny is they’re the same size as Sonic and co in the context of 4D space, so either Sonic and his friends grew or the realms are tiny. I actually kind of see merit in Low 1-C for Solaris but that’s a different discussion

tails talking an expression of what he is feeling by looking at it can be non literal you know?

It’s all we have to go off and it does portray the realms as significantly smaller than 4D space.

ok, but why does this matter for the dreams themselves?

It just shows the realms are significantly smaller than 4D space and smaller than their appearance when inside the worlds themselves, so their size can’t be judged fairly on the outside.

you keep saying that they do that without showing me a scene where what you are saying happens, i so far have saw no scenes outside of perspectives angles to say that the dream worlds are of the size of the characters

At this point I’ll just say if you don’t see my point that the characters can fit inside the realms outside 4D space but are the same size as the worlds when in 4D space, you won’t get it, I feel I explained it pretty clearly.

he said that even tho he went to maginary world and knows that dreams become dream worlds, if he who knows that considers time travel to be a legit dream possibility, then yes it would be proof

Time travel isn’t a dream, it happened in Rivals. This is a metaphor.

it does indicate that the "scope" of the dream matters not, or else a "florest dream" wouldn't have starry skies in it

Again, starry skies are not Uni.

yeah, which he does because lumina didn't think he was needed, a useless dream and being

Nowhere is it said it’s because Void is lesser, it’s because he appears violent and evil.

yeah, it is because i watched it that i say i have still no idea what you are talking about

You didn’t see in the cutscene where Tails says the worlds are like projections? You’re not gonna see it then, it’s right there in the cutscene introducing 4D space.

yeah, because that is how stars look irl when they are far away from us, we see a star closer and it is a ball of fire just like the ones irl, you can't be serious rn

Meh, doesn’t matter, I agree it is full size in the context of dreams being actual size.

have you.......have you ever saw a star irl? it a sphere, even in shuffle that is how it looks like, a sphere

Same as above.

still no idea how and where you got that from, they definitely don't seen like that in the 4D space cutscenes, they just look to be far away

They’re like 5-10 feet away.

one being bigger matters not from the fact that all of them are shown to be of the same size

It does matter when the example is using 4D space, a realm that contains all the other dream worlds and is thus by default bigger than them.

no it wasn't tf?

I read the thread and outside the statements of it cutting through anything, that was the main crux

@Theuser789 has said it already

All he said was there was examples of Sonic regenning without his body, examples he conveniently hasn’t shown.

Bro, nobody cares on what you're "fine" with or not. This thread is for YOU to CONVINCE others to remove abilities, not for others to convince you that the abilities are right or not like you are the owner of the wikia.

Fine; all the worlds being the same size is wrong because the only evidence is that worlds can reach a Uni size and worlds consistently have MSS size, and the projections of the worlds in 4D space are the same size, which means nothing when these worlds are not shown at the size we see in the board game portions, dreams lining up with reality does not give this a free pass. Matter and antimatter resistance is wrong because Sonic doesn’t get hit, low godly is wrong because Sonic never loses his body in SR, and dura neg is wrong because Sonic explicitly needs multiple hits to finish off Merlina. Power null is more like limited power null since it’s just nullifying attacks and breaking through barriers by charging into them for an extended time period/destroying them with multiple slashes.

 

[JED]

Disagree FRA