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EVERYONE IS LOW 2-C (Makoto Yuki vs Alien X)

Well, the persona revision was badly needed. The instant Yaldabaoth was upgraded to Low 2-C, every persona character should have been scaled with him.

However, it took a while to find the scaling chains and it was a very, very large job, so it didn't happen until now.

Even now, the profiles for every persona character pre-Persona 5 are all horribly out of date and in need of desperate maintenence.
 
Well, Makoto's got attack reflection, Spirit Drain negates durability, he has death manipulation and on top of that, he resists Alien X's IC hax. Plus, if things really get bad, he can just seal Alien X alway. So I'm voting for Emo Door Jesus.
 
I'm assuming Alien X isn't deliberating or P3 could just use the Universe Arcana to seal them before they make any substantial decision, assuming that works. With the voting process put aside Alien X should jump outside the universe for starters. Then it's a matter of whittling away at laws or principles regarding the opponent or Personas in general, or just instant erasure if it would work and couldn't rebound. I can't think of an instance where P3 could gap the locations Alien X can go to or match his range. If Thanatos is powerful enough and if Alien X was somehow afraid and perceived Ghastly Wail across universes, could that somehow work? I don't think so, but it's worth mentioning. It would be a quick fight if Alien X can just outright nullify Personas or a very slow one if he has to win through attrition, but I give it to Alien X either way.
 
Oh goddamnit. Whoever worked on Makoto's profile forgot to remove durability negation. Fixing it now.
 
Corporal Atlas said:
I'm assuming Alien X isn't deliberating or P3 could just use the Universe Arcana to seal them before they make any substantial decision, assuming that works. With the voting process put aside Alien X should jump outside the universe for starters. Then it's a matter of whittling away at laws or principles regarding the opponent or Personas in general, or just instant erasure if it would work and couldn't rebound. I can't think of an instance where P3 could gap the locations Alien X can go to or match his range. If Thanatos is powerful enough and if Alien X was somehow afraid and perceived Ghastly Wail across universes, could that somehow work? I don't think so, but it's worth mentioning. It would be a quick fight if Alien X can just outright nullify Personas or a very slow one if he has to win through attrition, but I give it to Alien X either way.
Click to expand...
So you're saying that Alien X wins via jumping to another universe and erasing the very concept of Personas? Alien X's range is just Universe+, not cross-dimensional or low multiversal, plus there is little to nothing on his profile supporting the idea that he has conceptual manipulation.
 
Celestialsapiens generally live in the Forge of Creation, which is outside the universe, and act upon the multiverse from it. As for conceptual manipulation, Celestialsapiens have on a number of occasions changed art styles or voice actors for at least the main universe(presumably countless universes given congruency with other universes in Omniverse). That's pretty big on its own and ties into ethos as well as physics in some cases, but a greater implication beyond the feat when the character was making his argument was that any fathomed incongruency with something like technology, mana, or other things of that nature between each series tends to come from the decision of Celestialsapiens as they "change the universe all the time". You can ignore this bit if you want since it's a creator answer and some of those can be incredibly dodgy, but one from a show writer during the original airing does outright confirm potential higher tier conceptual manipulation from Celestialsapiens(in this case with regards to mana).

I left room for a scenario where Alien X couldn't change the concept of a persona if you wanted to go that route anyways. It would just be a deluge of attacks from a rift between Forge of Creation and the universe for which I don't see P3 giving a reasonable response, even with The Universe. There wouldn't be too much of a point in getting that close to the Nyx Avatar anyways if he had comparable range feats. If you want to get really cheeky X could just vote for knowledge on more direct weaknesses as well, but I figured getting that nitpicky is pointless when it's either a wipe or a slow burn victory already.
 
Uhh... all Persona attacks are based around soul manipulation. Alien X has no resistance to that. He get's one-shot by literally anything Makoto uses.
 
DarkGrath said:
Uhh... all Persona attacks are based around soul manipulation. Alien X has no resistance to that. He get's one-shot by literally anything Makoto uses.
Click to expand...
Persona soul attacks still need to bypass their main durability before they can affect the target's soul. It's not just applicable to Almighty. Not that it matters should Makoto use his ailments or death manip, since those directly affect the soul.
 
I'll look into that. Through only on-screen and in-game feats(or just sticking to wiki listed feats) I still give it to X through range and wearing down P3, as previously mentioned.
 
DMB 1 said:
I remember the good times when being Low 2-C meant something.

Now even the flies that fly around my cat's dirty litterbox are Low 2-C

It happens I guess. Following anyways.
Click to expand...
Low 2-C used to be a incredible amount of power. But now, all it is to me is the equivalent of a consolation prize that Ant hands out every time he rejects a Tier 1 revision kek.
 
Thatsafloridathing said:
I like how Alien X went from being an omnipotent, undefeatable god to being the punching bag for nearly every Low 2-C on the site.
Click to expand...
DEPENDS on peoples prespective on him.....

he's generally hated i think and since his speed is unknown and people can't accept that fact that it is unlimited so obviously he will loose over and over and over and over agian !!!

he is on purpose to made look like shit on this site...
 
Don't derail to complain about a character not getting a fair shake. If you want to change it, make a CRT and an actual argument other than "He's unlimited" because you know that will never fly.

He's not made to look like shit, he's made to look as he's shown in the series.
 
And just checking, if X were to leave the universe would P3 lose after a day by SBA? I guess wearing him down is a moot point anyways in that case.
 
Why would your opponent leaving make you lose
 
"Killing the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions." P3 has no means to hurt a Celestialsapien if it leaves the universe, or possibly just the dimension, where they're fighting. So does entering a place from which they can strike the opponent but the opponent can't strike them count as restricting them? Or does the SBA mean "casting a spell that makes it so they can't attack" or an equivalent?

Anyways, still giving it to X because P3 wouldn't be able to hit him and has far worse stamina.
 
stupid question i'm sure, but has Alien X actually traveled into another universe on his own? I don't see Dimensional Travel on his profile. Anyway, pretty sure Minato's AP advantage and more versatility takes this.
 
ZephyrosOmega said:
stupid question i'm sure, but has Alien X actually traveled into another universe on his own? I don't see Dimensional Travel on his profile. Anyway, pretty sure Minato's AP advantage and more versatility takes this.
Click to expand...
In the Aggregor arc it's established that only Paradox, Celestialsapiens, and someone with the Map of Infinity can leave the universe and reach the Forge of Creation, which is outside of their universe as well as all others. In Universe Vs. Tennyson Celestialsapiens enter their universe from the Forge to put Ben on trial. In So Long And Thanks For All The Smoothies when the universe is destroyed all dimensions besides the main one that comprise the universe are destroyed as well(and the Celestialsapien artstyle bit is applied to all dimensions of the universe, including Ledgerdomain and Dimension 12). Alien X reconstructs all dimensions of that universe, so it would stand to reason that if Celestialsapiens can enter a dimension of the universe from the FoC, and Alien X's influence could recreate all dimensions in a universe, Celestialsapiens can also travel to the different dimensions contained in a universe as they've been shown to freely teleport through the universe or teleport others. Not to mention that it would be a bit weird if Celestialsapiens could create objects that can cross dimensions/universes when they themselves couldn't.

"BFR is short for Battle Field Removal, referring to one opponent forcing the other outside of their area of combat for a long enough period of time that the battle cannot be continued. As long as they cannot return from wherever they have been transported to within a certain amount of time - a week, going by Standard Battle Assumptions - victory is reached through BFR. The specific methods of BFR may vary, and they may be as simple as teleporting an opponent somewhere far far away to abandoning them in another time, sending them to a parallel universe, or knocking them into space."

Doesn it count as self-BFR when Alien X can return and exit as it pleases? Or is it even leaving the battlefield when no boundaries were given? It's not that he can't hurt P3 from where he is, it's that P3 would have no means to harm him save a very weird hypothetical I gave earlier.
 
So is there an implied battlefield limit in the fight? The SBA would say it begins in NYC(4km apart at maximum) but could be left as they please, but maybe I'm misreading something.
 
ThePunisher19 said:
Thatsafloridathing said:
I like how Alien X went from being an omnipotent, undefeatable god to being the punching bag for nearly every Low 2-C on the site.
Click to expand...
DEPENDS on peoples prespective on him.....
he's generally hated i think and since his speed is unknown and people can't accept that fact that it is unlimited so obviously he will loose over and over and over and over agian !!!

he is on purpose to made look like shit on this site...
Click to expand...
ALIEN X should be exactly how he is in the show which is 3-A
 
The limit's as far as they can go and still affect the other. Some people abuse range gaps like how Ahzek Ahrima likes to sit in the warp and hit people from a place they can't really follow him to, or how Tezzeret once tried to kill a guy by stepping out of the multiverse and then trying to drag him into the void.
 
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