Erza vs. Link

[Sivaaaaa]

Erza Scarlet (X793) vs. Link (Tears of the Kingdom)

Both are 5-A
Late Game Link and Post-Elentear Erza are used
Link has Limited Movement during Recall
Speed is equalized
Battle takes place in Hyrule Castle Town
They start 50m apart

Hero of Courage: 3 (@Catbowtie, @Sivaaaaa, @speedster352)

Titania:

Incon:

 

[Chariot190]

Im watching this.

 

[Catbowtie]

Doesn't Link have an insane scaling chain of lighting literal gods of the Sun on fire with Flame Arrows or is that a different continuity of Link?

 

[Sivaaaaa]

Doesn't Link have an insane scaling chain of lighting literal gods of the Sun on fire with Flame Arrows or is that a different continuity of Link?

I don't remember him doing that in TOTK lmao...could be misremembering tho

 

[Chariot190]

Doesn't Link have an insane scaling chain of lighting literal gods of the Sun on fire with Flame Arrows or is that a different continuity of Link?

Diff Link, tho this Link does have some wacky ass elemental shit too (the ice stuff is the impressive stuff, even the basic baby fruit, is cold enough to flash freeze super lava instantly, and Link has stuff like Naydra's horns and scales on hand). Has Dinraal shit, and Dinraal's heat is so potent that lil fireballs can instantly change the weather to clear skies from even a lightning storm, its passive heat is hot enough to where armor that can protect from like 1000 degrees heat or stuff that can turn shit to ash, can't do shit, etc.

Fire Arrows (OOT/MM/WW) millions of degrees in heat, but TOTK doesn't have feats that high unless you count the climate shit. Though Dinraal might upscale if you take the embodiment of fire bullshit at face value but that isn't accepted.

 

[Sivaaaaa]

Diff Link, tho this Link does have some wacky ass elemental shit too (the ice stuff is the impressive stuff, even the basic baby fruit, is cold enough to flash freeze super lava instantly, and Link has stuff like Naydra's horns and scales on hand). Has Dinraal shit, and Dinraal's heat is so potent that lil fireballs can instantly change the weather to clear skies from even a lightning storm, its passive heat is hot enough to where armor that can protect from like 1000 degrees heat or stuff that can turn shit to ash, can't do shit, etc.

Fire Arrows (OOT/MM/WW) millions of degrees in heat, but TOTK doesn't have feats that high unless you count the climate shit. Though Dinraal might upscale if you take the embodiment of fire bullshit at face value but that isn't accepted.

Yeah^. That being said, Erza has a shit load of armors which all include res to the basic elements, so I don't think Link just backflipping and spamming a billion arrows is a wincon here.

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah^. That being said, Erza has a shit load of armors which all include res to the basic elements, so I don't think Link just backflipping and spamming a billion arrows is a wincon here.

How good is the res thou? Link's elemental shit is hefty.
Like as said, even the basic baby local flora, can flash freeze superheated death lava instantly.
Link has Naydra slop, which is this dragon embodiment of cold that even just its passive existence can cause the climate to become frigid, mere contact flash freezes people, and that's not even the actual attacks, that's just it passively existing.
They also have AOE, they explode into plumes that iirc are about 20-30m wide, per arrow, and Link can obv spam, cycle, and get dozens off at the same time, doubly so because of bullet time. Which also segues into lightning stuff too, as anything frozen, takes extra damage from lightning bullshit he has.

His lightning stuff is also pretty potent, there's like an actual hard statement saying the lil balls that float by Farosh are charged to the extent that they passively induce lightning storms.

 

[Sivaaaaa]

How good is the res thou? Link's elemental shit is hefty.
Like as said, even the basic baby local flora, can flash freeze superheated death lava instantly.
Link has Naydra slop, which is this dragon embodiment of cold that even just its passive existence can cause the climate to become frigid, mere contact flash freezes people, and that's not even the actual attacks, that's just it passively existing.
They also have AOE, they explode into plumes that iirc are about 20-30m wide, per arrow, and Link can obv spam, cycle, and get dozens off at the same time, doubly so because of bullet time. Which also segues into lightning stuff too, as anything frozen, takes extra damage from lightning bullshit he has.

His lightning stuff is also pretty potent, there's like an actual hard statement saying the lil balls that float by Farosh are charged to the extent that they passively induce lightning storms.

Not sure about the other ones, but her fire armor apparently reduces all fire damage she takes by 50% straight out. Hopefully we get some Fairy Tail people in here who are more knowledgeable tho

 

[Chariot190]

Not sure about the other ones, but her fire armor apparently reduces all fire damage she takes by 50% straight out. Hopefully we get some Fairy Tail people in here who are more knowledgeable tho

50% isn't 100%. Tho I'm not to concerned about the fire stuff atm, like I know in theory we're talking tens of millions of degrees, but that needs a calc and I don't have time for that atm so no point arguing it unless we're ok upscaling Dinraal above classic Zelda shit, which like in theory it might a bit but eh.

The ice shit tho I have clips on hand and yap and "even the weakest thing can instantly flash freeze lava in a place the air temp itself is so hot flesh charcoals and things turn to ash" is a lot more blatant.

Does Erza have time stop res? I vaguely recall uh, Zeref I think having that?

 

[Sivaaaaa]

50% isn't 100%. Tho I'm not to concerned about the fire stuff atm, like I know in theory we're talking tens of millions of degrees, but that needs a calc and I don't have time for that atm so no point arguing it unless we're ok upscaling Dinraal above classic Zelda shit, which like in theory it might a bit but eh.

The ice shit tho I have clips on hand and yap and "even the weakest thing can instantly flash freeze lava in a place the air temp itself is so hot flesh charcoals and things turn to ash" is a lot more blatant.

Does Erza have time stop res? I vaguely recall uh, Zeref I think having that?

Pretty sure she doesn't resist time stop (she once was able to do it but that was through outside help) but she does have res to time manip, she also has res to high temperatures (again, not sure how high). As for low temperatures, she took a punch from Gray whose ice is below absolute zero. She also has a sword imbued with Natsu's flames, the same flames which can melt Gray's ice and literally burn time itself

 

[Huesito88]

Pretty sure she doesn't resist time stop (she once was able to do it but that was through outside help) but she does have res to time manip, she also has res to high temperatures (again, not sure how high). As for low temperatures, she took a punch from Gray whose ice is below absolute zero. She also has a sword imbued with Natsu's flames, the same flames which can melt Gray's ice and literally burn time itself. (Ignore the ads...)

Natsu has the whole nuclear fusion fire temperature feat (however not sure if Ezra scales to that key)

 

[Chariot190]

Pretty sure she doesn't resist time stop (she once was able to do it but that was through outside help) but she does have res to time manip,

Well, Link can stop time so, ya know, that's a pretty big hurdle she has to overcome. Tbh if this match was made awhile I'd have it's just a maybe, but footage for the upcoming game makes it pretty obvious they can move while using Recall.

she also has res to high temperatures (again, not sure how high).

Kind of matters.

As for low temperatures, she took a punch from Gray whose ice is below absolute zero.

So? Unless he used AZ on her in that specific instance, that doesn't matter.

She also has a sword imbued with Natsu's flames, the same flames which can melt Gray's ice.

Melting ice even if cold isn't an issue. The instant external heat gets introduced, it kind of stops being AZ.

and literally burn time itself. (Ignore the ads...)

I ain't opening that given you said there was ads, but that isn't a thing, that's just hax unless we want to assume Nasu has like High 3-A 4D fire or some shit. Which he don't.

Though, she only gets these resistances one at a time, like sure she has heat res, or lightning res, but she doesn't have both at the same time. If Link doubles up, she might just be cooked. But that's just extra stuff, the biggest issue is she doesn't have resistance against Ancient Tech, as in, if Link so much as grazes her with any of it, she just dies and is deconstructed. Whether he slaps it on a weapon and strikes her with it, slaps it on a shield and blocks her strikes, slaps it on a arrow for a projectile, or straight up just yeets it at her, if it touches her, he wins instantly no questions asked.

 

[Sivaaaaa]

Well, Link can stop time so, ya know, that's a pretty big hurdle she has to overcome. Tbh if this match was made awhile I'd have it's just a maybe, but footage for the upcoming game makes it pretty obvious they can move while using Recall.

Kind of matters.

So? Unless he used AZ on her in that specific instance, that doesn't matter.

Melting ice even if cold isn't an issue. The instant external heat gets introduced, it kind of stops being AZ.

I ain't opening that given you said there was ads, but that isn't a thing, that's just hax unless we want to assume Nasu has like High 3-A 4D fire or some shit. Which he don't.

Though, she only gets these resistances one at a time, like sure she has heat res, or lightning res, but she doesn't have both at the same time. If Link doubles up, she might just be cooked. But that's just extra stuff, the biggest issue is she doesn't have resistance against Ancient Tech, as in, if Link so much as grazes her with any of it, she just dies and is deconstructed. Whether he slaps it on a weapon and strikes her with it, slaps it on a shield and blocks her strikes, slaps it on a arrow for a projectile, or straight up just yeets it at her, if it touches her, he wins instantly no questions asked.

Mb, should've specified, yeah he was using his ice. This feat also proves that she has res to Natsu's flames which should be higher than anything Link has.
Also, recall doesn't stop time for anything except the item which Link casts it on. (In this clip Link casts recall but the Gleeok is still moving). Link can't cast recall on people, he can only do that w/ stasis which is a BOTW ability.

You're right that ancient weapons kinda cook Erza here...that being said Erza could also use her Natsu hax fire sword and eviscerate Link. I need to hear more arguments on how this match could play out.

 

[Chariot190]

Mb, should've specified, yeah he was using his ice.

My brother in christ, her arm was flash frozen solid and is literally cracking from just touching it.
That's the opposite of a resistance, she was effected blatantly there.

In fact, might've convinced me Link's stuff would work given his has massive AOE and wouldn't be just touching her hand.

This feat also proves that she has res to Natsu's flames which should be higher than anything Link has.

Ignoring time burning because that isn't quantifiable, they're probably about the same given Link has access to Dinraal's horns and stuff, while Dinraal's passive body heat is capable of changing the climate, doing a rough number crunch to figure out how hot something would need to be to do the funny climate shit from the fireballs (stuff like heat transfer, surface area, and all that fun stuff come into play), I get nearly a million degrees? That actually feels kinda low, I expected higher given how small they are but eh.
And obviously the horns and fangs upscale, with the horn being the highest so like, ehhhhh

If Natsu's fire scales to nuclear fusion temps, it should be around 15000000c. Though at the same time Dinraal's passive heat being as high as it is makes me less cautious of scaling Fire Arrow temps to it (Dinraal does have meme statements like "A sharp horn of the red spirit, Dinraal. It is said to be the crystallized power of fire itself." so idk, maybe). Like I don't really think the flame stuff is that relevant here, moreso lightning and ice, but the gap shouldn't actually be that big.

Also, recall doesn't stop time for anything except the item which Link casts it on. (In this clip Link casts recall but the Gleeok is still moving).

It stops time in preparation, it's why he has limited time stop.

Linking a video clip of after he uses recall, ain't it.
If you notice, Gleeok actually does stop moving when Link is readying it.

Link can't cast recall on people, he can only do that w/ stasis which is a BOTW ability.

He can't cast recall on people, but the rewind effect isn't why it's an issue here. It's the all-encompassing time stop portion of it.

You're right that ancient weapons kinda cook Erza here...that being said Erza could also use her Natsu hax fire sword and eviscerate Link.

Unless Link stops time, bullet times, uses things like fairies to revive from death to instantly counter back (He'd have 4-5 of these, only 4-5 tho, unlike most items he can't cap out at 999x, they stop spawning after 4-5 until you drop below, though what this means, is that she has to kill Link like 5 times before winning, while Link only has to beat her once), deflect it back with the canonically indestructible shield, and more.

Ignoring that, I could be wrong because the profile doesn't give values but I think Erza scales to 7.72 yottatons, (Scales to a chick who scales to Wendy and Wendy is 7.72yt?).
Ganondorf is casually 21.04 yottatons, which Link upscales by such a degree that Ganon legit crashed tf out. So Link by default already has an almost 3x stat advantage, and also has methods to amp himself even further.
Given we're talking about armor too, let's not forget Link also has a bunch of equipment, which includes ice immunities, passive atk buffs (up to 50% iirc with some sets, tho champion's leathers + atk lv3 from food, would put the sword beams specifically at a 2.25x buff, which is 6x Erza), equipment that absorbs residual temperatures to bolster Link's own of that type, etc, on top of some pretty abstract weaponry like Weapons that rip out souls, fireproof elixirs (Might help? Pretty sure he becomes incombustible, I might turn it on to check if it's just heat res or actual incombustibility tho by trying to catch fire via unconventional methods), and all that other fun stuff.
Link doesn't just have the Master Sword and a tunic, he has literally hundreds of items on hand, and while Erza might have a hefty kit too, Link is the dude with extra chances due to faes, some time stop, slowmo, and several instant kill options.

 

[Sivaaaaa]

My brother in christ, her arm was flash frozen solid and is literally cracking from just touching it.
That's the opposite of a resistance, she was effected blatantly there.

In fact, might've convinced me Link's stuff would work given his has massive AOE and wouldn't be just touching her hand.

Ignoring time burning because that isn't quantifiable, they're probably about the same given Link has access to Dinraal's horns and stuff, while Dinraal's passive body heat is capable of changing the climate, doing a rough number crunch to figure out how hot something would need to be to do the funny climate shit from the fireballs (stuff like heat transfer, surface area, and all that fun stuff come into play), I get nearly a million degrees? That actually feels kinda low, I expected higher given how small they are but eh.
And obviously the horns and fangs upscale, with the horn being the highest so like, ehhhhh

If Natsu's fire scales to nuclear fusion temps, it should be around 15000000c. Though at the same time Dinraal's passive heat being as high as it is makes me less cautious of scaling Fire Arrow temps to it (Dinraal does have meme statements like "A sharp horn of the red spirit, Dinraal. It is said to be the crystallized power of fire itself." so idk, maybe). Like I don't really think the flame stuff is that relevant here, moreso lightning and ice, but the gap shouldn't actually be that big.



It stops time in preparation, it's why he has limited time stop.

Linking a video clip of after he uses recall, ain't it.
If you notice, Gleeok actually does stop moving when Link is readying it.

He can't cast recall on people, but the rewind effect isn't why it's an issue here. It's the all-encompassing time stop portion of it.

Unless Link stops time, bullet times, uses things like fairies to revive from death to instantly counter back (He'd have 4-5 of these, only 4-5 tho, unlike most items he can't cap out at 999x, they stop spawning after 4-5 until you drop below, though what this means, is that she has to kill Link like 5 times before winning, while Link only has to beat her once), deflect it back with the canonically indestructible shield, and more.

Ignoring that, I could be wrong because the profile doesn't give values but I think Erza scales to 7.72 yottatons, (Scales to a chick who scales to Wendy and Wendy is 7.72yt?).
Ganondorf is casually 21.04 yottatons, which Link upscales by such a degree that Ganon legit crashed tf out. So Link by default already has an almost 3x stat advantage, and also has methods to amp himself even further.
Given we're talking about armor too, let's not forget Link also has a bunch of equipment, which includes ice immunities, passive atk buffs (up to 50% iirc with some sets, tho champion's leathers + atk lv3 from food, would put the sword beams specifically at a 2.25x buff, which is 6x Erza), equipment that absorbs residual temperatures to bolster Link's own of that type, etc, on top of some pretty abstract weaponry like Weapons that rip out souls, fireproof elixirs, and all that other fun stuff. Link doesn't just have the Master Sword and a tunic, he has literally hundreds of items on hand, and while Erza might have a hefty kit too, Link is the dude with extra chances due to faes, some time stop, slowmo, and several instant kill options.

You’re 100% right about the ice thing, I’m an idiot for not watching the whole clip.

But I really don’t get why recall is relevant here at all. You’re right, he stops time before he casts it, but what is he gonna do, just hold recall forever? If anything it gives him time to stop the fight and consider his options which is an advantage ig, but what he certainly cannot do is stop time and attack Erza while time is stopped. He can’t do it in game so I fail to see why he could (or would) do it here.

About the AP stuff I really don’t know, I’d need to wait for FT supporters to show up. I definitely would give link a pretty significant edge tho. He has multiple wincons (freezing erza to death, evaporating her via ancient tech, etc.) while Ezra seems to really only have one (trying to kill Link with her nuclear fire sword) which as you mentioned is kinda redundant because of the fact that link can kinda just revive.

 

[Chariot190]

But I really don’t get why recall is relevant here at all. You’re right, he stops time before he casts it, but what is he gonna do, just hold recall forever? If anything it gives him time to stop the fight and consider his options which is an advantage ig, but what he certainly cannot do is stop time and attack Erza while time is stopped. He can’t do it in game so I fail to see why he could (or would) do it here.

it's iffy, but

• Recall: An ability Link inherited from Zelda's temporary manifestation in the Temple of Time. It allows Link to reverse an object's flow of time for up to 30 seconds, which can be used in a myriad of ways. Unlike the Stasis ability Link previously had, Recall does not work on sentient entities. It also produces a time stopping effect between its initial deployment and activation, where Link cannot move his most of his body outside of his head and hands, which are used to aim. It is hard to tell where the limits on movement are placed between canonical proficiency with the ability or simply gameplay restrictions, especially in consideration of Zelda's and Queen Sonia's ability for greater movement as presented in various cutscenes.

As someone who partook in the threads that yapped about this to begin with, the verdict was basically "Link might be able to move and he just cant for gameplay balance because having unlimited time stop you can freely move around in would be broken, or maybe he actually can't move for some reason, leave it up to OP". So I mean, technically it is up to you what interpretation we go with, but just saying, in recent light of Imprisoning War, I'm def starting to think Link can move, he just doesn't in game because that'd be busted (Plus why would he be able to move his whole upper body freely, but can't move his legs? Shit dont even make sense, what sets his legs apart? Technically not even given he can bend his knees and ankles so what sets his THIGHS apart? Yet we see Zelda over here doing goddamn backflips with it active.... Idk chief).

About the AP stuff I really don’t know, I’d need to wait for FT supporters to show up. I definitely would give link a pretty significant edge tho. He has multiple wincons (freezing erza to death, evaporating her via ancient tech, etc.) while Ezra seems to really only have one (trying to kill Link with her nuclear fire sword) which as you mentioned is kinda redundant because of the fact that link can kinda just revive.

Link can only revive 4-5 times, game hard caps him, you literally can't get 6. So like, he can die, he just gets multiple chances.

But the fire sword, would the fireproof elixir not come in clutch there? It makes him completely immune to residual heat in the same ballpark (No I don't mean Death Mountain's 1000c bullshit, I mean Dinraal).

 

[Chariot190]

Oh, you linked the wrong key. I was looking at the Misaki scaling via Wendy and got 7.72yt, but you said Limit Break in the OP, which is 3.86yt going by verse.
That means Link is 5.45x strong by default, can buff that up to 8.17x via Atk Buff Lv3, and with a few niche combos, hit stuff like 14x Erza with Sword Beams.

Erza has to hax him or hit him with shit that he doesn't resist, while avoiding basically everything he has, because straight boxing him is a death sentence.

 

[Sivaaaaa]

it's iffy, but

• Recall: An ability Link inherited from Zelda's temporary manifestation in the Temple of Time. It allows Link to reverse an object's flow of time for up to 30 seconds, which can be used in a myriad of ways. Unlike the Stasis ability Link previously had, Recall does not work on sentient entities. It also produces a time stopping effect between its initial deployment and activation, where Link cannot move his most of his body outside of his head and hands, which are used to aim. It is hard to tell where the limits on movement are placed between canonical proficiency with the ability or simply gameplay restrictions, especially in consideration of Zelda's and Queen Sonia's ability for greater movement as presented in various cutscenes.

As someone who partook in the threads that yapped about this to begin with, the verdict was basically "Link might be able to move and he just cant for gameplay balance because having unlimited time stop you can freely move around in would be broken, or maybe he actually can't move for some reason, leave it up to OP". So I mean, technically it is up to you what interpretation we go with, but just saying, in recent light of Imprisoning War, I'm def starting to think Link can move, he just doesn't in game because that'd be busted (Plus why would he be able to move his whole upper body freely, but can't move his legs? Shit dont even make sense, what sets his legs apart? Technically not even given he can bend his knees and ankles so what sets his THIGHS apart? Yet we see Zelda over here doing goddamn backflips with it active.... Idk chief).

Link can only revive 4-5 times, game hard caps him, you literally can't get 6. So like, he can die, he just gets multiple chances.

But the fire sword, would the fireproof elixir not come in clutch there? It makes him completely immune to residual heat in the same ballpark (No I don't mean Death Mountain's 1000c bullshit, I mean Dinraal).

Mb for late reply, had to catch some sleep.

For the recall stuff I'm still gonna go with how the gameplay treats it for one main reason: it isn't in character for Link to use recall and then attack his enemies. He doesn't do that a single time in all of TOTK. He wouldn't even think to activate it here because there would be no item for him to even cast it on. (Adding on to that, it isn't even in character for him to just throw random elemental bullshit at his enemy, he usually goes for Master Sword blitz iirc)

For the huge AP diff, I upgraded Erza's key to be Post-Elentear (stronger than Natsu in that arc who scales to 7.72 yt, so she should cap out at ~8 yt+)

As for the fire hax thing, that depends how Link's menu system works in a vs. battle (I'll admit, I'm a noob when it comes to this). Does it work like how it works in game (he theoretically pauses all time for everyone but himself and can access his menu) or does he kinda just pull shit out of his ass? If it's the former, then yeah, he gets resistance to it. If it's the latter, Erza obviously kills him before he's able to drink it.

Another thing: is Link allowed to stack resistances? Cuz if Link drinks the fire elixir then Erza can just pull out her other sword imbued with Gray's ice and kill Link with that instead.

 

[Chariot190]

Mb for late reply, had to catch some sleep.

For the recall stuff I'm still gonna go with how the gameplay treats it for one main reason: it isn't in character for Link to use recall and then attack his enemies.

In character? My brother in christ, he's a player character, his "in character" doesn't actually exist, for better or for worse. Technically his in character is "Highly adaptable and uses anything at his disposal, reacting to his enemies and countering them to the best of his ability" given the glaze he gets.

Though, "gonna go with" doesn't actually matter at this point, that in't how it works anymore.

He doesn't do that a single time in all of TOTK.

He does it like 10 billion times in TOTK. Unironically.

The only thing that's up for debate is whether he can move his thighs while doing it, which he pretty obviously can given everyone else can and he himself can move the rest of his body regardless.

He wouldn't even think to activate it here because there would be no item for him to even cast it on.

What? He can use it on his own shit? Or Erza's shit like her weapons.
Tf you mean nothing? Force procing it is broken in and of itself?
Like why wouldn't he use it on say, a Zonai Spring to create a platform he can force to stay in air, to Ascend into, to then force bullet time? As one of many reasons why he'd do it or even on his own weapons, like why wouldn't he throw say, a Farosh Hammer, then recall it back to pincer Erza.

(Adding on to that, it isn't even in character for him to just throw random elemental bullshit at his enemy, he usually goes for Master Sword blitz iirc)

It is. What are you talking about? He spends 95% of the game doing that. And he can weave that shit into his gameplan with zero issue.

For the huge AP diff, I upgraded Erza's key to be Post-Elentear (stronger than Natsu in that arc who scales to 7.72 yt, so she should cap out at ~8 yt+)

Changing the key a lil sus ngl, but it doesn't matter, everything I said still applies, it's just 7x at most now instead of 14x. Technically, she starts in one shot range now too unlike before, starts 5-B+, only 5-A with best armors, so if she doesn't play her cards right immediately, she dies 24x over.

As for the fire hax thing, that depends how Link's menu system works in a vs. battle (I'll admit, I'm a noob when it comes to this). Does it work like how it works in game (he theoretically pauses all time for everyone but himself and can access his menu) or does he kinda just pull shit out of his ass? If it's the former, then yeah, he gets resistance to it. If it's the latter, Erza obviously kills him before he's able to drink it.

Pull out his ass but he still has to drink it.
Which, is like, idk, the animation is like 0.2 seconds long? And ya know, bro does have Time Stop whether ya want to use it or not.

Also kills him? He has 5 auto revives, killing him doesn't actually do anything unless she does it a bunch.

Another thing: is Link allowed to stack resistances? Cuz if Link drinks the fire elixir then Erza can just pull out her other sword imbued with Gray's ice and kill Link with that instead.

He can yeah? Why wouldn't he? He can pop Zant's helmet on with a fire proof elixir active for example.
The only thing he can't stack, is the same buff from multiple sources (Like a lv3 food buff, and a lv3 armor buff of the same buff, don't stack).

Also the same goes for her, she only resists so much and she needs to swap armors to resist various things. Erza can't resist Link's ice manip, while also resisting his lightning manip at the same time, for example, which is an issue given bro has 5x bows and bullet time where he can carpet bomb multiple AOEs of each simultaneously.

Plus, why are we assuming that works? What if Link uses an Ancient Shield to parry her strike? Her weapon would literally be EE'd along with her, you keep saying she just stabs him with a sword, but not only does Link have the same type of stuff she has, that'd work just as well if not better on her, but he has multiple ways to outright nullify most of that.

 

[Sivaaaaa]

In character? My brother in christ, he's a player character, his "in character" doesn't actually exist, for better or for worse. Technically his in character is "Highly adaptable and uses anything at his disposal, reacting to his enemies and countering them to the best of his ability" given the glaze he gets.

Though, "gonna go with" doesn't actually matter at this point, that in't how it works anymore.

He does it like 10 billion times in TOTK. Unironically.

The only thing that's up for debate is whether he can move his thighs while doing it, which he pretty obviously can given everyone else can and he himself can move the rest of his body regardless.

What? He can use it on his own shit? Or Erza's shit like her weapons.
Tf you mean nothing? Force procing it is broken in and of itself?
Like why wouldn't he use it on say, a Zonai Spring to create a platform he can force to stay in air, to Ascend into, to then force bullet time? As one of many reasons why he'd do it or even on his own weapons, like why wouldn't he throw say, a Farosh Hammer, then recall it back to pincer Erza.

It is. What are you talking about? He spends 95% of the game doing that. And he can weave that shit into his gameplan with zero issue.

Changing the key a lil sus ngl, but it doesn't matter, everything I said still applies, it's just 7x at most now instead of 14x. Technically, she starts in one shot range now too unlike before, starts 5-B+, only 5-A with best armors, so if she doesn't play her cards right immediately, she dies 24x over.

Pull out his ass but he still has to drink it.
Which, is like, idk, the animation is like 0.2 seconds long? And ya know, bro does have Time Stop whether ya want to use it or not.

Also kills him? He has 5 auto revives, killing him doesn't actually do anything unless she does it a bunch.

He can yeah? Why wouldn't he? He can pop Zant's helmet on with a fire proof elixir active for example.
The only thing he can't stack, is the same buff from multiple sources (Like a lv3 food buff, and a lv3 armor buff of the same buff, don't stack).

Also the same goes for her, she only resists so much and she needs to swap armors to resist various things. Erza can't resist Link's ice manip, while also resisting his lightning manip at the same time, for example, which is an issue given bro has 5x bows and bullet time where he can carpet bomb multiple AOEs of each simultaneously.

Plus, why are we assuming that works? What if Link uses an Ancient Shield to parry her strike? Her weapon would literally be EE'd along with her, you keep saying she just stabs him with a sword, but not only does Link have the same type of stuff she has, that'd work just as well if not better on her, but he has multiple ways to outright nullify most of that.

Doesn't exist? TOTK has cutscenes bro. And in all of them Link fights w/ the Master Sword. That's his starting tactic 99% of the time. He could absolutely adapt to what Erza does later but claiming that he doesn't have an in-character way of doing things is silly.

Also "gonna go with" does matter because on his page (I missed this), it actually says to specify whether his recall movement is limited or full, and I'm gonna change it to limited because a match where he just recalls gg is boring. So this convo is done.

How is changing the key sus? Like you said he still one shots lmao I'm just making Erza stronger. I really don't care who wins this match.

I'm struggling to find a clip where Link drinks an elixir but I remember it being closer to 1-1.5 seconds long, def not 0.2.

Erza doesn't just have the fire and ice swords, she has a bunch of other shit, I'm just bringing it up because those seems to be her strongest abilities. She can fly, has a bunch of projectiles, has armor which can dispel magic, a sword which is imbued with magic which negates magic res, law manip, etc.

Anyways you're just repeating yourself atp, so you gonna vote for Link or nah?

 

[Chariot190]

Doesn't exist? TOTK has cutscenes bro.

Yeah it does.
None of which have combat though except Link vs Ganon.

Actually, EVERY cutscene with Link rendered in real time, so what Link has on him, is what's shown in cutscene. If I have Link with Tingle armor and a puffshroom broom, that's what he has in cutscene.

And in all of them Link fights w/ the Master Sword.

No he doesn't except against Ganon.
And It's canonically the only thing that works according to Ganon's pokedex entry. Thats the plot of the game.

That's his starting tactic 99% of the time.

No it isn't. His starting tactic is to analyze his enemies and act accordingly, canonically.

He could absolutely adapt to what Erza does later but claiming that he doesn't have an in-character way of doing things is silly.

He doesn't, and that's the point. Lil bro even has glaze making his in character options free form.

Also "gonna go with" does matter because on his page (I missed this), it actually says to specify whether his recall movement is limited or full, and I'm gonna change it to limited because a match where he just recalls gg is boring. So this convo is done.

Yeah except that was before we knew Zelda could do backflips and shit with Recall. Hell I was literally involved with writing the note lad, if need be Ill make a CRT right now.

How is changing the key sus? Like you said he still one shots lmao I'm just making Erza stronger. I really don't care who wins this match.

If you dont care why change it? Or why handicap Link?

He still one shots tho, in fact unless she leads with her best armor, she double dies now.

I'm struggling to find a clip where Link drinks an elixir but I remember it being closer to 1-1.5 seconds long, def not 0.2.

Ill grab a clip myself after shower,

Erza doesn't just have the fire and ice swords, she has a bunch of other shit, I'm just bringing it up because those seems to be her strongest abilities.

Im aware that she has more, but the rest dont matter or effect Link, not really a wincondition.

She can fly,

LInk can auto spawn stuff he can ride to fly after her.
Actually given his use of recall and items, he can basically spawn platforms and create ground.

has a bunch of projectiles,

So does Link, actually his home and autotrack too.
She might be screwed if he uses a 5x bow with each elemental attack on top of throwing ancient stuff in there.

has armor which can dispel magic,

As ****** as it is, this Link doesnt have much magic outside of the Master Sword, which has so many resistances, including to dispel (hell it has its own dispel for dispel), idk if it matters much.
Everything else is biological based (like keese stuff or like like), tech based like zonai or ancient stuff, or conceptual bullshit like the dragons.

a sword which is imbued with magic which negates magic res,

That doesnt matter here tho Link doesnt res magic specifically (he doesnt have the ToC unlike most Link's)? Just specific effects like super aids or freezing.

law manip, etc.

This might be useful.

Anyways you're just repeating yourself atp, so you gonna vote for Link or nah?

Also, notice, you listed off all that stuff, but how many of those 5-A?
Like if her Magic Dispel armor is only 5-B, it gets her killed, for example.
She has a kit, I said as much ashile back, but how much of it actually stops Link or scales to her best?

 

[Sivaaaaa]

None of which have combat though except Link vs Ganon.

Exactly, the one cutscene in TOTK which has combat has Link pulling out the MS. Before you fight Ganon in both games, Link pulls it out as well (Ganon's entry in the second game says nothing about the MS whatsoever, unless you're talking about his dragon entry which is irrelevant anyways since Link pulls it out against base Ganon, and you do NOT need the MS to kill base Ganon), there's a cutscene in the first game where some Yiga are trying to assassinate Zelda and Link's first move is to parry and whip and out the MS. Even if Link does analyze his enemies to begin with, basically everything in both games clearly shows that he prefers to fight starting with the MS.

Yeah except that was before we knew Zelda could do backflips and shit with Recall. Hell I was literally involved with writing the note lad, if need be Ill make a CRT right now.

You can make the CRT if you want to but that's kinda lame IMO.

So does Link, actually his home and autotrack too.
She might be screwed if he uses a 5x bow with each elemental attack on top of throwing ancient stuff in there.

Meh, doubt. Erza's projectiles far outclass Link's in terms of how much shit she's throwing at the enemy:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Erza_New_Blumenblatt.gif

As ****** as it is, this Link doesnt have much magic outside of the Master Sword, which has so many resistances, including to dispel (hell it has its own dispel for dispel), idk if it matters much.
Everything else is biological based (like keese stuff or like like), tech based like zonai or ancient stuff, or conceptual bullshit like the dragons.

She could probably answer that with her Holy Hammer: "The Holy Hammer can nullify all the effects "Real Nightmare", which includes abilities such as Transmutation, Age Manipulation, Biological Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Attack Reflection, Matter Manipulation, Magic Absorption, Memory Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Sense Manipulation, and Madness Manipulation."

If you dont care why change it? Or why handicap Link?

He still one shots tho, in fact unless she leads with her best armor, she double dies now.

Because I want to make the match as fair as can be. Especially with the recall bullshit, since that just doesn't make for an interesting match objectively speaking. I haven't watched Fairy Tail in god knows how long and I've basically full cleared TOTK so I'm definitely not biased. I'll literally admit rn that it's looking like Link wins this 9/10 times.

Also, notice, you listed off all that stuff, but how many of those 5-A?
Like if her Magic Dispel armor is only 5-B, it gets her killed, for example.
She has a kit, I said as much ashile back, but how much of it actually stops Link or scales to her best?

From the Wiki: "Erza's "Strongest Armors" refers to her Heaven's Wheel Armor, Black Wing Armor, Adamantine Armor, Purgatory Armor, Armadura Fairy Armor, Nakagami Armor, Wedding Dress Armor, Celestial Armor, Red-Black Armor, and Thousand Arms Armor."

And: "Large Planet level with Strongest Armors (Far stronger than her Pre-Elentear Strongest Armors. Her Heaven's Wheel Armor fought and harmed Misaki) or Clear Heart Clothing (Stronger than her Pre-Elentear Clear Heart Clothing and her Strongest Armors), higher with Enchantments (Her Fairy Sword: Meteor defeated Misaki, which should make her stronger than Post-Elentear Fire Dragon King Mode Natsu. Her magic power overwrote Misaki's Blue Dimension)"

So basically her strongest armors scale to 5-A. Everything else scales to 5-B. Her magic dispel armor (Nakagami) is 5-A.

 

[Catbowtie]

Inb4 Chariot gets yet another warning for some bull**** cracklepop snap reasons. Link FRA

 

[Sivaaaaa]

Counted.

 

[Chariot190]

Exactly, the one cutscene in TOTK which has combat has Link pulling out the MS.

That's wrong though technically, you can actually fight him without the MS even then. Hell if you wanna be literal, that isn't even combat, we don't know what he actually did in the fight itself, for all we know the instant it starts, Link spawns a Zonai Spring, trips it, backflips to flurry rush, and blitzes Ganon from across the arena and shanks him with a Korok stick that has a dazzle fruit stuck on it.
Also I forgot about those, Dazzle Fruits would blind and stun Erza for a good few seconds, and my boy Link has 999x of those, if he has Korok weaponry, that shit becomes refundable too.

But, are you for real? You're taking Link rolling up to the final boss with the mcguffin of the game, that shoves down your throat you need it to fight him, as "see he leads with the MS!", like yeah he would there, he'd be an actual idiot if he didn't, but him rolling up with it doesn't mean he doesn't use the rest of his stuff in that fight either as backing to it?

Before you fight Ganon in both games, Link pulls it out as well (Ganon's entry in the second game says nothing about the MS whatsoever,

That's wrong actually, you can engage Ganon without the MS tbh, you're forced to get it only in the Dragon Phase.

unless you're talking about his dragon entry which is irrelevant anyways since Link pulls it out against base Ganon, and you do NOT need the MS to kill base Ganon),

You do according to numerous statements saying the only thing that can beat him is the Master Sword, that's literally the plot of the game my dude.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish here, we know Link uses everything at his disposal, this isn't up for debate. Yeah he'd use the Master Sword, but he's also gonna be swapping and accentuating it with the rest of his kit.

there's a cutscene in the first game where some Yiga are trying to assassinate Zelda and Link's first move is to parry and whip and out the MS.

Yes, Link without any of his equipment with just a tunic and the Master Sword, is, in fact, going to use the only shit he got.
He also used a pot lid against a Guardian too because it's just what he had on hand, we gonna start arguing Link leads with Pot Lids? Well he might because what he does depends on what he's fighting, that's the entire point.

Even if Link does analyze his enemies to begin with, basically everything in both games clearly shows that he prefers to fight starting with the MS.

Only if you ignore multiple boss fights where we're told what he does, multiple character statements describing how he fights or goes about combat, the fact he doesn't even have the thing 90% of those games so we know for a fact he uses a bunch of stuff.

Who are you trying to fool here? He uses everything at his disposal because we're told he uses everything at his disposal. Like yeah lil bro does prefer using the Master Sword, and he will use it, but that doesn't mean he isn't gonna be whipping out bows, ancient arrows, random items, buffs, and all that fun stuff at the same time? Especially if they start 50m apart, he's basically guaranteed to start off with items and bow spam, or trip a bullettime dash.

You can make the CRT if you want to but that's kinda lame IMO.

I'm not the person pretending Link is handicapped and tweaking the match my dude, it is what it is.

Meh, doubt. Erza's projectiles far outclass Link's in terms of how much shit she's throwing at the enemy:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Erza_New_Blumenblatt.gif

At face value, sure, but you're ignoring bullet time.
Link can get off hundreds of individual projectiles, all fused with things like Dragon Horns, Ancient tech, homing stuff, etc, all before he touches the ground from a mere few feet drop with 5x Lynel Bows. It takes about 10 frames to fire a burst, and you can easily chain that shit.
If Link couldn't use bullet time, yeah she'd have higher DPS spam, but bro basically gets a 10x boost when projectile spamming 90% of the time.

Also.... His can explode, violently, dragon items have nice AOE to them.

She could probably answer that with her Holy Hammer: "The Holy Hammer can nullify all the effects "Real Nightmare", which includes abilities such as Transmutation, Age Manipulation, Biological Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Attack Reflection, Matter Manipulation, Magic Absorption, Memory Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Sense Manipulation, and Madness Manipulation."

No? What? Literally nothing there is shit Link uses, except Mind Manip, which is why I haven't mentioned the funny mushrooms this match because they wouldn't work on her.
Everything else is useless because Link doesn't even have it to begin with.

Because I want to make the match as fair as can be.

I'd rather the match be accurate.

Especially with the recall bullshit, since that just doesn't make for an interesting match objectively speaking.

Then use Ganon or something idk. Actually, I have a Sidon profile in a sticky somewhere, I could publish that and you could do Erza with a specific armor vs his ass or something.

I haven't watched Fairy Tail in god knows how long and I've basically full cleared TOTK so I'm definitely not biased. I'll literally admit rn that it's looking like Link wins this 9/10 times.

I never said you were biased, but you do evidently care about the outcome.

From the Wiki: "Erza's "Strongest Armors" refers to her Heaven's Wheel Armor, Black Wing Armor, Adamantine Armor, Purgatory Armor, Armadura Fairy Armor, Nakagami Armor, Wedding Dress Armor, Celestial Armor, Red-Black Armor, and Thousand Arms Armor."

Yeah, which leaves her vulnerable to a handful of Link's options? That's my point, even if she has resistance to some stuff, it doesn't matter if it's tied to an armor that would get her killed as collateral because it's that much weaker than Link.

And: "Large Planet level with Strongest Armors (Far stronger than her Pre-Elentear Strongest Armors. Her Heaven's Wheel Armor fought and harmed Misaki) or Clear Heart Clothing (Stronger than her Pre-Elentear Clear Heart Clothing and her Strongest Armors), higher with Enchantments (Her Fairy Sword: Meteor defeated Misaki, which should make her stronger than Post-Elentear Fire Dragon King Mode Natsu. Her magic power overwrote Misaki's Blue Dimension)"

Yes I'm aware, that's why I said she was 7.72yt initially due to Misaki, who scales to Wendy, who is 7.72yt.
And that's with Enchantments, which mind you Link has the same type of stuff, lv3 atk buffs, specific damage buffs based on various conditions like Sword Beams to even just it being hot outside.
There's a gap here she can't actually bridge, and Link upscales his value by quite a bit, to the point Ganon crashes out.

So basically her strongest armors scale to 5-A. Everything else scales to 5-B. Her magic dispel armor (Nakagami) is 5-A.

As mentioned, this Link doesn't actually have much magic based stuff except the Master Sword, everything else is either weird tech stuff like the ancient tech, innate biological qualities (like frost fruit or like like cores ain't magic), involves Gloom which does involve magic to a degree (like the Nagita, but Gloom can negate resistances so it don't actually matter in that specific case), or whatever is going on with the dragons which with how they're described, come off more as abstract beings.
Plus that shit should be layered if we take into account feats from older games like AlttP, which we do, Master Sword is a throughline, resistances it shows in say, TP or AlbW, apply to BOTW/TOTK MS, especially the latter given it's the strongest incarnation of the blade.

 

[Chariot190]

Inb4 Chariot gets yet another warning for some bull**** cracklepop snap reasons. Link FRA

IM NOT DOING ANYTHING THO IT'S CHILL

 

[Sivaaaaa]

But, are you for real? You're taking Link rolling up to the final boss with the mcguffin of the game, that shoves down your throat you need it to fight him, as "see he leads with the MS!", like yeah he would there, he'd be an actual idiot if he didn't, but him rolling up with it doesn't mean he doesn't use the rest of his stuff in that fight either as backing to it?

That is quite literally what I said. He prefers to lead with the MS and adapts as the fight goes on. I'm not even arguing that he would only use it, that is obviously ridiculous. I feel like this specific point is being blown out of proportion. All I'm saying is that he's most likely to start the fight with MS, not doing bullet time back flips and/or freezing Erza to death as soon as it begins.

You do according to numerous statements saying the only thing that can beat him is the Master Sword, that's literally the plot of the game my dude.

Once again, I am not talking about his Dragon Form. His base form can be beaten w/o the MS and this is easily proven by just looking up the boss fight without the MS lmao.

No? What? Literally nothing there is shit Link uses, except Mind Manip, which is why I haven't mentioned the funny mushrooms this match because they wouldn't work on her.
Everything else is useless because Link doesn't even have it to begin with.

Link doesn't use atk reflection? You were arguing that he would just parry her like 2 messages ago.

I'm not the person pretending Link is handicapped and tweaking the match my dude, it is what it is.

How you yourself can admit to helping create a note that tells users to specify how to handle recall in a match and then saying that I'm "pretending Link is handicapped" is beyond me. I am quite literally just following his profile.

Yeah, which leaves her vulnerable to a handful of Link's options? That's my point, even if she has resistance to some stuff, it doesn't matter if it's tied to an armor that would get her killed as collateral because it's that much weaker than Link.

What was the point of leaving this message? I was just telling you what abilities of hers scale to 5-A, something which you asked in the first place.

Yes I'm aware, that's why I said she was 7.72yt initially due to Misaki, who scales to Wendy, who is 7.72yt.
And that's with Enchantments, which mind you Link has the same type of stuff, lv3 atk buffs, specific damage buffs based on various conditions like Sword Beams to even just it being hot outside.
There's a gap here she can't actually bridge, and Link upscales his value by quite a bit, to the point Ganon crashes out.

Another redundant message which I've already agreed with.

 

[Chariot190]

That is quite literally what I said. He prefers to lead with the MS and adapts as the fight goes on. I'm not even arguing that he would only use it, that is obviously ridiculous. I feel like this specific point is being blown out of proportion. All I'm saying is that he's most likely to start the fight with MS, not doing bullet time back flips and/or freezing Erza to death as soon as it begins.

It isn't, you've been arguing Link doesn't do this or that based on a cutscene, that mind you isn't even scripted to play out that way.
Bullet time is actually basically guaranteed, the lore behind it, is just Link focusing which heightens his perception, he's basically guaranteed to do that almost immediately, even if he uses the MS.

Given you started them 50m apart, you've basically made it so Link CAN'T start with Master Sword, you're forcing him to lead with bullet time dashes, or ranged attacks, so this point doesn't even make sense because he's basically guaranteed to do the very two things you're stating he wouldn't do.

Once again, I am not talking about his Dragon Form. His base form can be beaten w/o the MS and this is easily proven by just looking up the boss fight without the MS lmao.

Yeah and you can beat Majora without the Fierce Deity's Mask. But guess what isn't canon?
It doesn't matter if you can beat the dogpiss out of Majora with Deku Link when it's canonically staed he used FD and there's statements that go along the lines of "Standing no chance against Majora without it" or "Turning a hopeless battle around" and more.

Ganon can't be defeated without the MS going by statements, it doesn't matter if he can without it in gameplay, because that's where straight up statements and yap supercede it.

Link doesn't use atk reflection? You were arguing that he would just parry her like 2 messages ago.

Dude, the attack reflection Erza negs, is not the same as Link backhanding a beam with a indestructible shield or using deconstruction shields to EE her or her attacks. I shouldn't even have to explain this.

How you yourself can admit to helping create a note that tells users to specify how to handle recall in a match and then saying that I'm "pretending Link is handicapped" is beyond me. I am quite literally just following his profile.

The note was before we got Imprisoning War slop, times have changed lil bro.

Like yeah back at launch it was vague, lil different after we seen Zelda perform a triple 360 backflip when doing recall.

What was the point of leaving this message? I was just telling you what abilities of hers scale to 5-A, something which you asked in the first place.

Because it's relevant? If her 5-A armors don't have the resistances required, she either gets haxed by said abilities, or if she changes into the weaker armors with the resistances, she dies due to the 24x stat gap.

Another redundant message which I've already agreed with.

If you agree don't argue it.

 

[Sivaaaaa]

It isn't, you've been arguing Link doesn't do this or that based on a cutscene, that mind you isn't even scripted to play out that way.
Bullet time is actually basically guaranteed, the lore behind it, is just Link focusing which heightens his perception, he's basically guaranteed to do that almost immediately, even if he uses the MS.

Given you started them 50m apart, you've basically made it so Link CAN'T start with Master Sword, you're forcing him to lead with bullet time dashes, or ranged attacks, so this point doesn't even make sense because he's basically guaranteed to do the very two things you're stating he wouldn't do.

Nope, all I've said is that he prefers to start with the MS based on cutscenes and the fact that it's literally his staple weapon. I'll admit that if he sees Erza charging at him he'll probably try a backflip into bullet time or a flurry rush, but that doesn't change the fact that the MS is his strongest and most reliable weapon. I don't even get how you're trying to argue against this here, the MS is literally his thing.

My point is quite simple: if Erza tries to keep the fight close quarters, he will most likely try to outskill via MS. If she stays back and projectile spams, Link will adapt to that and act accordingly.

Ganon can't be defeated without the MS going by statements, it doesn't matter if he can without it in gameplay, because that's where straight up statements and yap supercede it.

I will concede this point if you can find a specific statement (from TOTK of course) which states that base Ganon cannot be defeated without the Master Sword.

Dude, the attack reflection Erza negs, is not the same as Link backhanding a beam with a indestructible shield or using deconstruction shields to EE her or her attacks. I shouldn't even have to explain this.

Him being able to deflect projectiles is kinda redundant here because like I showed you before, Erza can summon literally hundreds of blades at once. Granted, Link can do crazy shit like this, but I don't think he'd even have enough shields to parry every single thing that Erza throws at him (he can hold like 30 iirc?)

Also it quite literally is the same. It's a giant ******* hammer that is unparryable. It's not even like Link is capable of parrying everything anyways, he's shown to be susceptible to certain moves (AOE, Colgera's wind shit, Ganon's gloom explosions (not the initial hit, the explosion afterwards), giant rocks, etc.
Here's a clip demonstrating this:
(Side note: this guy actually has a whole series on this, it's pretty interesting: https://www.youtube.com/@cdotkom/search?query=can you parry that)

Also this could be me just forgetting but...does Link even have this deconstruction shield that you speak of? I assume you're talking about the ancient shield which doesn't actually have deconstruction to my memory? (unless he can fuse ancient blades to his shield).

Like yeah back at launch it was vague, lil different after we seen Zelda perform a triple 360 backflip when doing recall.

I'll still keep it as is until we get an official CRT

If you agree don't argue it.

I've never argued that Erza can scale to Link's AP, quite the opposite. The only way I see her winning is hax or projectile spam which would be difficult to pull off.

All that being said, I'm getting very tired of repeating the same things over and over, so I'll just go ahead and cast my own vote for Link while we wait for more people to come in here (if they even will). Soooo yeah: Link FRA.

 

[speedster352]

Link Fra

 

[Sivaaaaa]

Counted

 

[Chariot190]

Nope, all I've said is that he prefers to start with the MS based on cutscenes

Based on a single cutscene, a single cutscene that isn't even scripted.
Hell you can't even say cutscenes, because it's only one, but really it's more like half of one.

and the fact that it's literally his staple weapon.

Which means what exactly? You know what else is a staple weapon for him? Ancient Arrows.
So much so there's more BOTW/TOTK art and media with him using those, than there is the MS.

I'll admit that if he sees Erza charging at him he'll probably try a backflip into bullet time or a flurry rush,

If she rushes him, she dies, her best bet is legit try to outrange him and DPS check.

but that doesn't change the fact that the MS is his strongest and most reliable weapon.

Non-argument.
It being a good weapon, doesn't mean he won't say, start off with trying to flash freeze the area, slam a dazzle fruit down, or even just using a puff shroom, as both would lead to the MS being even more effectively, especially with the added damage bonus. You have them start 50m away. If they started like 5m away ok sure, I can see it, but you literally have Link out of range for this to even be a lead even if he wanted it to be.

I don't even get how you're trying to argue against this here, the MS is literally his thing.

Because your reasoning and arguments are bad.
You're arguing he's going to lead with MS, based on extremely disingenuous reasoning, that being a cutscene where he doesn't actually need to have the MS in it, and a cutscene against ganon at that, where that's the whole point of the game.

Yet the situation Link is in here, he'd almost never lead with MS because he starts to far away for that to even be a relevant option.

I'm arguing it because your point is inherently flawed, ignore the fact he canonically uses a bunch of shit in combination with his weaponry, yet you're acting like he's gonna try to throw hands, despite your very own premise forcing him to not do that from the start, that won't be what's happening.

My point is quite simple: if Erza tries to keep the fight close quarters, he will most likely try to outskill via MS. If she stays back and projectile spams, Link will adapt to that and act accordingly.

Your point is bad. Why would Link wait for her? They already start 50m away, he's going to be leading with either a bullet time dash to blitz her and get in, or bullet time arrow spam. It's one of the two.

Him acting accordingly doesn't mean he just sits there either, he's going to be throwing shit the instant the match starts, regardless of what she does.

I will concede this point if you can find a specific statement (from TOTK of course) which states that base Ganon cannot be defeated without the Master Sword.

Literally the whole game.
Zelda says as much. Rauru says as much. Mineru says as much. It's straight up why Zelda became a dragon because the only chance they had was pumping it full of energy to make it strong enough to oppose him, something even Mineru says would take centuries to even get close. The whole point is nothing else would work.
I'm not even sure how to explain this because it's so self-evident I don't even know where to begin.
And worst of all? I don't gotta do that anyway because that's what's accepted on wiki.
If you don't like it go make a CRT that actually you can kill Ganon with a mop and every piece of narrative info is lying.

Him being able to deflect projectiles is kinda redundant here because like I showed you before, Erza can summon literally hundreds of blades at once.

Man, you know she doesn't have her whole kit at a given time right?

That move is only in Heaven's Wheel, which lacks a bunch of resistances she's going to need to have. If she wants that move, she leaves herself vulnerable to something as basic as Link just shooting a 5x Lynel bow with ice keese eyeballs attached as they will auto track her, chase her down, and explode on contact in a plume of ice that can instantly flash freeze her solid. And that's just a basic strat, if he wanted he could use Mineru's forcefields or even just slap down a dazzling fruit and slip away and throw on stealth gear.

I will admit that move in particular might be problematic but he has a bunch of ways to force her out of it.

Granted, Link can do crazy shit like this, but I don't think he'd even have enough shields to parry every single thing that Erza throws at him (he can hold like 30 iirc?)

You don't need to do that, you can swap back to a shield you already used.
Also, this is where Recall comes in handy, regardless of if you want to be deliberately roundabout with it, time stop, weapons are things he can use Recall on too so that's fair game. Technically speaking, he can go one by one and and have them drop straight out of the sky by using recall, and then calling it off, which halts all momentum.

Also, he doesn't have to? He can have Sidon or Mineru protect him? Or Yunobo? Or spawn Zonai Constructs and walls?
I didn't mention it because I thought it might've been obvious, but Link has 5 summons on hand, this is technically a 5v1, and mind you, the summons are unkillable (Well, I guess Mineru can be "killed" if you destroy her mecha body, but the rest astral projections).

Also it quite literally is the same. It's a giant ******* hammer that is unparryable.

No it isn't? It resists Attack Reflection from the Infinity Clock, if someone like Superman backhanded her as she swung it, he'd parry that shit just fine.

Also, again, Hammer can't be used in conjunction with Heaven's Wheel, if she uses the Hammer, she's basically forced to engage in close combat, and from there she gets manhandled, deleted, or fried, frozen, etc.

It's not even like Link is capable of parrying everything anyways, he's shown to be susceptible to certain moves (AOE, Colgera's wind shit, Ganon's gloom explosions (not the initial hit, the explosion afterwards), giant rocks, etc.

Who tf said he can parry everything? He doesn't have to parry everything in existence to parry her, which he can.

Here's a clip demonstrating this:
(Side note: this guy actually has a whole series on this, it's pretty interesting: https://www.youtube.com/@cdotkom/search?query=can you parry that)

What are you trying to argue here? That Link not being able to deflect some unconventional slop Erza doesn't have, means he can't deflect what she does have?

Hey you know what Link can deflect?
Physical strikes, explosions (fire, lightning, ice variety), fireballs (notable one being the Gleeok one), projectiles, magic, lightning attacks as long as it isnt a metal shield, laser beams, sand attacks, gloom, demon bullshit, water, etc.
What's the argument here? Everything that's even remotely threatening to Link, he can parry, and the worst part, that wasn't even my argument.

My point was, if she attacks Link and he like, just does this, he wins.

Erza literally can't engage in CQC with him, could kill her basically instantly.
Mind you, that's a shield, he can slap these on arrows, spears, swords, clubs, you name it, and needless to say, even if she blocks it, it won't matter, it instant kills enemies even if they block it. Technically speaking, he can use it by itself too, you can kill enemies with the raw item without fusing it to something first, even just throwing it at them will work.

Also this could be me just forgetting but...does Link even have this deconstruction shield that you speak of? I assume you're talking about the ancient shield which doesn't actually have deconstruction to my memory? (unless he can fuse ancient blades to his shield).

Ngl, kind of find this offensive, you mean to tell me you've been arguing with me on a subject you don't even remember? And why would I lie about that anyway?
I meant Ancient Blades+Literally any shield.

I'll still keep it as is until we get an official CRT

Nothing like shooting credibility in the foot here.

I've never argued that Erza can scale to Link's AP, quite the opposite.

I didn't say you did, me shooting something down something doesn't mean you argued it in particular.
You know it isn't just me and you in this thread right? You know there's hundreds of views.

If you argue she's actually this and this AP, I'm going to point out it ultimately doesn't matter because Link has the advantage even if she can buff herself, regardless of if that was the point you're trying to make, because it's directly relevant to the topic at hand.

And, if every one of your points is just "I didn't say it'd work", why are you arguing it to begin with?
Why are just to argue?

The only way I see her winning is hax or projectile spam which would be difficult to pull off.

It would be yes.

 

[Sivaaaaa]

Based on a single cutscene, a single cutscene that isn't even scripted.
Hell you can't even say cutscenes, because it's only one, but really it's more like half of one.

Which means what exactly? You know what else is a staple weapon for him? Ancient Arrows.
So much so there's more BOTW/TOTK art and media with him using those, than there is the MS.

If she rushes him, she dies, her best bet is legit try to outrange him and DPS check.

Non-argument.
It being a good weapon, doesn't mean he won't say, start off with trying to flash freeze the area, slam a dazzle fruit down, or even just using a puff shroom, as both would lead to the MS being even more effectively, especially with the added damage bonus. You have them start 50m away. If they started like 5m away ok sure, I can see it, but you literally have Link out of range for this to even be a lead even if he wanted it to be.

Because your reasoning and arguments are bad.
You're arguing he's going to lead with MS, based on extremely disingenuous reasoning, that being a cutscene where he doesn't actually need to have the MS in it, and a cutscene against ganon at that, where that's the whole point of the game.

Yet the situation Link is in here, he'd almost never lead with MS because he starts to far away for that to even be a relevant option.

I'm arguing it because your point is inherently flawed, ignore the fact he canonically uses a bunch of shit in combination with his weaponry, yet you're acting like he's gonna try to throw hands, despite your very own premise forcing him to not do that from the start, that won't be what's happening.

Your point is bad. Why would Link wait for her? They already start 50m away, he's going to be leading with either a bullet time dash to blitz her and get in, or bullet time arrow spam. It's one of the two.

Him acting accordingly doesn't mean he just sits there either, he's going to be throwing shit the instant the match starts, regardless of what she does.

Literally the whole game.
Zelda says as much. Rauru says as much. Mineru says as much. It's straight up why Zelda became a dragon because the only chance they had was pumping it full of energy to make it strong enough to oppose him, something even Mineru says would take centuries to even get close. The whole point is nothing else would work.
I'm not even sure how to explain this because it's so self-evident I don't even know where to begin.
And worst of all? I don't gotta do that anyway because that's what's accepted on wiki.
If you don't like it go make a CRT that actually you can kill Ganon with a mop and every piece of narrative info is lying.

Man, you know she doesn't have her whole kit at a given time right?

That move is only in Heaven's Wheel, which lacks a bunch of resistances she's going to need to have. If she wants that move, she leaves herself vulnerable to something as basic as Link just shooting a 5x Lynel bow with ice keese eyeballs attached as they will auto track her, chase her down, and explode on contact in a plume of ice that can instantly flash freeze her solid. And that's just a basic strat, if he wanted he could use Mineru's forcefields or even just slap down a dazzling fruit and slip away and throw on stealth gear.

I will admit that move in particular might be problematic but he has a bunch of ways to force her out of it.

You don't need to do that, you can swap back to a shield you already used.
Also, this is where Recall comes in handy, regardless of if you want to be deliberately roundabout with it, time stop, weapons are things he can use Recall on too so that's fair game. Technically speaking, he can go one by one and and have them drop straight out of the sky by using recall, and then calling it off, which halts all momentum.

Also, he doesn't have to? He can have Sidon or Mineru protect him? Or Yunobo? Or spawn Zonai Constructs and walls?
I didn't mention it because I thought it might've been obvious, but Link has 5 summons on hand, this is technically a 5v1, and mind you, the summons are unkillable (Well, I guess Mineru can be "killed" if you destroy her mecha body, but the rest astral projections).

No it isn't? It resists Attack Reflection from the Infinity Clock, if someone like Superman backhanded her as she swung it, he'd parry that shit just fine.

Also, again, Hammer can't be used in conjunction with Heaven's Wheel, if she uses the Hammer, she's basically forced to engage in close combat, and from there she gets manhandled, deleted, or fried, frozen, etc.

Who tf said he can parry everything? He doesn't have to parry everything in existence to parry her, which he can.

What are you trying to argue here? That Link not being able to deflect some unconventional slop Erza doesn't have, means he can't deflect what she does have?

Hey you know what Link can deflect?
Physical strikes, explosions (fire, lightning, ice variety), fireballs (notable one being the Gleeok one), projectiles, magic, lightning attacks as long as it isnt a metal shield, laser beams, sand attacks, gloom, demon bullshit, water, etc.
What's the argument here? Everything that's even remotely threatening to Link, he can parry, and the worst part, that wasn't even my argument.

My point was, if she attacks Link and he like, just does this, he wins.

Erza literally can't engage in CQC with him, could kill her basically instantly.
Mind you, that's a shield, he can slap these on arrows, spears, swords, clubs, you name it, and needless to say, even if she blocks it, it won't matter, it instant kills enemies even if they block it. Technically speaking, he can use it by itself too, you can kill enemies with the raw item without fusing it to something first, even just throwing it at them will work.

Ngl, kind of find this offensive, you mean to tell me you've been arguing with me on a subject you don't even remember? And why would I lie about that anyway?
I meant Ancient Blades+Literally any shield.

Nothing like shooting credibility in the foot here.

I didn't say you did, me shooting something down something doesn't mean you argued it in particular.
You know it isn't just me and you in this thread right? You know there's hundreds of views.

If you argue she's actually this and this AP, I'm going to point out it ultimately doesn't matter because Link has the advantage even if she can buff herself, regardless of if that was the point you're trying to make, because it's directly relevant to the topic at hand.

And, if every one of your points is just "I didn't say it'd work", why are you arguing it to begin with?
Why are just to argue?

It would be yes.

Like I said, I'm tired of repeating myself and me responding to this in detail would be just that. I just think it's funny that you say my arguments are bad, yet you ignore me linking a clip showing that Link CANNOT parry some of the shit you listed clear as day, and bringing up ******* Superman in a 5-A debate LOL.

Also heavily implying that I was making an argument, then shooting down the argument and saying "well I never SAID you made the argument" really dude?

I genuinely have nothing left to say, I literally casted my own vote for Link before you did and you're obviously adamantly pro-Link. I even asked you before if you were going to vote for him and you ignored me so I probably just won't reply unless you vote (and I'll confirm it)✌

 

[Chariot190]

Like I said, I'm tired of repeating myself and me responding to this in detail would be just that. I just think it's funny that you say my arguments are bad, yet you ignore me linking a clip showing that Link CANNOT parry some of the shit you listed clear as day,

And you're wrong? How about instead of watching a video that singles out specific things, you play the game instead?

You can, in fact, parry explosions. Just because you can't parry Gohma's, doesn't mean you can't others.
You can't parry boulders? Yes you can, you can parry Talus' shit.
Hey let's go down the list.

Physical strikes

Don't think I have to explain.

explosions (fire, lightning, ice variety)

Chuchu and Gleeok stuff off the top of my head.

fireballs (notable one being the Gleeok one)

Well I already listed an example, but you can throw Wizrobes in there too.

projectiles

Obviously includes rocks, arrows, shit enemies throw, Meteorobes, etc

magic

Notably from Ganon.

lightning attacks as long as it isnt a metal shield

Thunder Wizrobes an obvious example, can also block and deflect some thunder Gleeok moves.

laser beams

Guardians and Gleeoks

sand attacks

Gibdo Sandjet

gloom

Ganon, obviously.

water

Lizalfos and the water temple boss.

But go on, tell me he can't because he can't deflect a specific boulder out of the hundreds of others.

and bringing up ******* Superman in a 5-A debate LOL.

Doesn't matter. At all.
You're arguing you can't parry the hammer because of hax or something, so why can Superman?
What's the difference? If it's hax/res, then AP doesn't actually matter, right? (Or if AP does matter, then Link can do it anyway because he has the stat advantage, so either way your argument falls short).
That's rhetorical, not only is there no difference, but the attack reflection it resists is literally not the same shit as what Link does.

Also heavily implying that I was making an argument, then shooting down the argument and saying "well I never SAID you made the argument" really dude?

Yes because newsflash, you ain't the only person here. You bring up AP, I'm going to tackle AP as a whole.
Though ngl, I'd very much prefer you actually did make the argument, because if you didn't, that just kind of means you've been saying stuff for the sake of it as opposed to saying stuff that actually effects the match. If you don't have an actual point to make, why are you bringing it up?

I genuinely have nothing left to say, I literally casted my own vote for Link before you did and you're obviously adamantly pro-Link.

I haven't actually voted yet. I'm arguing what he can do, and what she can't do.
If someone wants to being up actual useful shit she has, that'd be nice.
Unfortunately, you keep arguing or bringing up things that are either completely useless by your own admission, aren't even relevant by your own admission, or making faulty arguments like what Link may or may not do or what he can and can not do based on basically nothing in spite of statements, and lore.

 

[Sivaaaaa]

I haven't actually voted yet. I'm arguing what he can do, and what she can't do.
If someone wants to being up actual useful shit she has, that'd be nice.
Unfortunately, you keep arguing or bringing up things that are either completely useless by your own admission, aren't even relevant by your own admission, or making faulty arguments like what Link may or may not do or what he can and can not do based on basically nothing in spite of statements, and lore.

That's funny since out of the two of us I'm the only one who's even trying to make a case for Erza here. Since you skipped over them I'll remind you what I think her wincons are:

1. Killing Link with her Natsu/Gray magic imbued swords (Link has res via elixirs and armor to these, but she could still try to catch him off guard or something, she would also have to do this 4-5 times making it extremely difficult)
2. Staying back and spamming Heavens Wheel Armor (probably her best bet)
3. Staying back and spamming Celestial Armor attacks (didn't mention this one before but it's functionally similar to Heaven's Wheel, just w/ different projectiles)

I think Link has good counters to all of these and obviously so do you. I also can't find anything else on her profile which would give her another wincon.
So the only question left is are you gonna make a decision and vote or stop replying? No point in me arguing anymore since I already voted.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Haven't seen FT in the longest time, but by the time Natsu and Gray get their permanent op upgrades, it's passive forever and not far-fetched for Erza to be able to resist those.

 

[Chariot190]

That's funny since out of the two of us I'm the only one who's even trying to make a case for Erza here.

Yeah so? That doesn't change what I said.

Since you skipped over them I'll remind you what I think her wincons are:

I literally didn't skip over them, I even said Heaven's Wheel might be her best bet, although Zonai Constructs and the squad might mitigate it quite a bit.

Killing Link with her Natsu/Gray magic imbued swords (Link has res via elixirs and armor to these, but she could still try to catch him off guard or something, she would also have to do this 4-5 times making it extremely difficult)

Link can block it, and if they trade while using Ancient tech, he wins that exchange every time given he'd come back to life, she won't, dodge, which lets him blitz back due to speed amps, obviously armors (it's pretty damn obvious the fire sword that is on fire is gonna be heat based and do fire damage so he'd know to pop Sidon's bubble (Which protects from fire for one attack), or an elixir the instant she pulls it out), and yes, 4-5 times, she's hard pressed to even do it once, and if she somehow gets it off, Link comes back and she's in perfect position to be countered back.

Staying back and spamming Heavens Wheel Armor (probably her best bet)

Mayhaps, but you also said she'd try to rush him.

Staying back and spamming Celestial Armor attacks (didn't mention this one before but it's functionally similar to Heaven's Wheel, just w/ different projectiles)

Same deal as Heaven's Wheel, tbh Heaven's looks better anyway. More attacks per second.

I think Link has good counters to all of these and obviously so do you. I also can't find anything else on her profile which would give her another wincon.

Maybe, but I'd wait for an actual supporter. For all I know there's some niche tech or some self evident bullshit that is worded badly on profile that affects the match.

So the only question left is are you gonna make a decision and vote or stop replying? No point in me arguing anymore since I already voted.

I'll reply however many times I please. If you bring something up, I will reply to it, every time. Whether or not you agree, I'm still going to voice my stance on how useful it is or if Link can't counter it, not for you, but for whoever is lurking the thread in order to vote.

 

[Chariot190]

Haven't seen FT in the longest time, but by the time Natsu and Gray get their permanent op upgrades, it's passive forever and not far-fetched for Erza to be able to resist those.

Gray literally flash freezes her arm solid on contact, pretty blatantly doesn't resist freezing.
She does resist Natsu's a bit though, gets burned, but some burns is still a decent resistance when she should have been vaporized if 15m degrees is legit, hence why I haven't been arguing any of the heat-based stuff, she'd be fine or just marginally grazed by it.
It evidently isn't passive given the area around him isn't being flash frozen passively, unless you just mean to say it's a buff they can call on whenever, but that doesn't make it passive nor a thing she resisted.

 

[Shadowslash125]

It evidently isn't passive given the area around him isn't being flash frozen passively, unless you just mean to say it's a buff they can call on whenever, but that doesn't make it passive nor a thing she resisted.

I meant that from the arc where they got those upgrades onwards, any form of fire or ice has those haxxy properties, even in their weakest usages.
Everything else checks out, I guess? I'm practically a stranger to FT power scaling as a whole, so that's all I can chip in.

 

[Sivaaaaa]

Maybe, but I'd wait for an actual supporter. For all I know there's some niche tech or some self evident bullshit that is worded badly on profile that affects the match.

Perhaps, but seems unlikely.

As a side note: I'm scrolling thru Zeref's profile rn and I'm kinda regretting that I didn't use him for this fight, that seems waaaay more interesting (might do that after this tbh).