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Epic Persona 5 Revisions (Formerly known as Yaldy (Personaugh) revisions (Mostly hax))

Eh, seems a bit shaky, but okay

Not necessarily. More often they're things that define our perception

His healing from the desires of humanity has never been shown to give him that level. It's Type 8, but Type 8 =/= low godly
 
He is literally the concept of human sloth personified, and the need for a guiding force to control them. As long as the concept exist in the human unconscious he cannot be truly killed. Rem's almighty bullet and swaying public cognition robbed him off that.
 
It can be pretty solidly inferred. As someone else said, most villains/entities in Persona are personified concepts that humanity holds like death for instance. When that force becomes strong enough it can be birthed into an entity. Yald is not only a concept, but straight up the treasure of mementos (the collective unconscious). Treasures are established as the emobdiment of the concept of desires.

This pretty much sums it up.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]
 
This looks fine to me. Yabadabadoo and the rest of the P5 cast (and Persona in general) will likely be gettting better files after my massive Persona blog gets finished.
 
So will Yaldabaoth and the Phantom Thieves finally get the update they deserve to show their true form? (P5 pun intended)
 
So let me get this straight.

My thread was closed because 1 mod disagreed even after i countered his argument and he refused to comment back deapite me proving his knowledge of the series to be less than purported and majority of thread (including all listed as knowledegable members of the series from the page) agreed?

Nice to know that's how thing work.
 
LukaSolosYourVerse said:
Nah it was cause this thread already existed and they were too similar ig
Click to expand...
Thats not the reason, the reason why is because Sera stated she was gonna make a blog regarding this and Ant closed it cuz myself and Matt disagreed with it. I would have been more willing to work with him if his tone was auto smarmy. And also he never got Matt to argue. He kind of just said 'no' and dipped. Not in his defense, but after that, no one commented before it was closed. This thread tho is still fine.
 
This should probably be aplied since it was already accepted iirc.

I agree with the changes either way.
 
This is a massive upgrade, so I wanted to make sure nothing's been invalidated since this thread became inactive.
 
yeah my multiversal thread got closed and Matt never made a counter argument. Been a good month or two and no changes
 
Well this thread's been accepted already, so technically it would be okay to start implementing changes. I'm just being cautious of any other changes I may have missed in the meantime.
 
As things are, these are the proposed changes:

  • Yaldy goes from At least 4-A to to Low 2-C due to manipulating both the Cognitive Universe (collective unconsciousness) and the Physical Universe.
  • Yaldy gets Sealing and Power Nullification via sealing away Igor and Lavenza's extra-sensory perception.
  • Yaldy gets BFR via banishing and sealing away Igor from the Velvet Room. This BFR also works on the scale of entire dimensions, since the entire Velvet Room was also relocated by Yaldy to the bottom of Mementos.
  • Yaldy gets Type 4 Conceptual Manipulation via the Deadly Sins.
  • Yaldy gets Abstract Existence via being an entity made of unconscious thought.
  • Yaldy gets Type 8 Immortality via being unable to die as long as people believe in him.
Then there's the potential implications:

  • The Phantom Thieves could get Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation by not being instantly bodied by said Deadly Sins and recovering from their effects. (PTs resist conceptual mindhax?)
  • Sinful Shell (or Satanael in general) ignores Type 8.
  • Satanael resists all of Yaldy's hax? Yaldy didn't seem to think he could do anything to Satanael, if his dying words mean anything.
 
Also, since we're revising Persona anyway, I'd like to point out that the profiles still have this:

"Almighty" Attacks that Bypass all Defenses
...as a thing. And it is just as wrong as it has ever been since the early SMT CRTs years ago.

Almighty attacks bypass Resistances, NOT Durability.
 
Except that physical durability is determined by the Endurance stat, and Almighty doesn't ignore that. The resistances/weaknesses of a Persona/Demon is a separate defense, in the same vein as the Barrier spells as well as Tetrakarn and Makarakarn.

Saying that Almighty bypasses Durability is like saying that a Level 1 Jack Frost can hurt YHVH if you give him Megidolaon.
 
Not really. If you have physical Immunity from a persona then physical attacks don't do anything to you. Pretty cut and dry.
 
You would need some special sort of defense for almighty not to bypass it. For example someone like spongebob (with his physical immunity showings) would still be affected.
 
Except that there are physical Almighty spells in SMT. Almighty attacks that scale to Strength instead of Magic. Most notably, Demi-Fiend's Freikugel.

Also, in this thread that I made a long time ago, Ultima - one of our experts on SMT - specifically said that Almighty is Resistance Negation, not Durability.
 
so yes you are correct in that the wording should be changed to resistances, but most people's "durability" is just a round about way of how much they can resist their material self being damaged by physical means, which almighty also bypasses.

Someone tiers above in stats would be hit with your max AP, but that obviously wouldn't matter if their "HP" is leagues above what you can dish out.
 
Solacis said:
Except that there are physical Almighty spells in SMT. Almighty attacks that scale to Strength instead of Magic. Most notably, Demi-Fiend's Freikugel.
Also, in this thread that I made a long time ago, Ultima - one of our experts on SMT - specifically said that Almighty is Resistance Negation, not Durability.
Click to expand...
That does nothing against my point. Physical is a category that covers all physical attakcs. Bringing up a qualifier of almighty (which is a descriptor of how the attack works) does nothing for you point of non almighty physical attacks.

using your own logic "a lvl 1 persona with physical immunity feels nothing from a level 99 persona attacking it physically". Yet almighty would body it.

You would need some sort of non physical/elemental defenses that aren't covered by the base elements of the game to not be affected by almighty. It's literally the whole point of the category.

Which is why I partially agree, as durability depends on multiple factors, but for most it is indeed physical durability.
 
The issue is that it's misleading. Durability Negation implies that Almighty can hit someone with 99 Endurance just as hard as it can hit someone with 1 Endurance. Physical Resistances in SMT and Persona are additional resistances that stack on top of the base Endurance stat. Just because a Persona or Demon has physical immunity doesn't mean that their base endurance is infinite. That's not how this works.

If a character has baseline 7-B Durability, but their resistance to magic makes it so that their effective durability towards magical attacks is High 7-A, then a magical Almighty attack will hit them as if the additional resistance isn't there.

If the wording has to be changed from Durability to Resistance, then it's not Durability Negation anymore. It's Resistance Negation. That is what's cut and dry here.
 
Solacis said:
As things are, these are the proposed changes:
  • Yaldy goes from At least 4-A to to Low 2-C due to manipulating both the Cognitive Universe (collective unconsciousness) and the Physical Universe.
  • Yaldy gets Sealing and Power Nullification via sealing away Igor and Lavenza's extra-sensory perception.
  • Yaldy gets BFR via banishing and sealing away Igor from the Velvet Room. This BFR also works on the scale of entire dimensions, since the entire Velvet Room was also relocated by Yaldy to the bottom of Mementos.
  • Yaldy gets Type 4 Conceptual Manipulation via the Deadly Sins.
  • Yaldy gets Abstract Existence via being an entity made of unconscious thought.
  • Yaldy gets Type 8 Immortality via being unable to die as long as people believe in him.
Click to expand...
That's most of it yeah, I also went over mind manip and reality warping but since those are already on the profile my sections on them can just be used as elaborations.

As for the implications bit, the first 2 look ok but I'm kinda on the fence about the 3rd. To me it seemed like Yaldy there was just kinda acknowledging his defeat and not much else.
 
Haa... I really want these upgrades to go through already.

Btw, dibs on making the inevitable Yaldy V.S. Nyarly match.
 
Anything else I've missed? Before we start applying the changes.

Edit: I'm working on a sandbox on my blog for all the proposed changes, and I'll be leaving out the effects of Almighty until that CRT is dealt with. If anyone would like to comment on it, it'll be up in a couple of hours.
 
That'd be a stretch, and would essentially be the same thing as giving palace rulers all the abilities of the shadows in their own palaces. Though then again Yaldy embodies the entire unconscious so I suppose it can be argued.
 
That's why I brought it up. The Shadows come from the Collective Unconscious, of which Yaldy is the Administrator of. He already has Creation, Pocket Reality Manipulation and Reality Warping, so it isn't even that much of a stretch that he has full control over all Shadows.

That also brings up another thing. If we assume that Yaldy created the Shadows, then wouldn't Joker's negotiation skills go from superhuman charisma to flat-out mind control? It doesn't help that the Sun Arcana has a confidant skill outright called "Mind Control" which allows Joker to instantly recruit Shadows as his Personas.
 
Oh **** ur on to something.

If this is true then the other phantom thieves could get into this as well most likely, since they can assist with negotiations and all that
 
I could make a case for nigh-omniscient due to the fact that he basically embodies and governs thought itself which would include knowledge.
 
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