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Elemental Manipulation Revisions Part 2

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Bobsican

He/Him
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Continued from here

Before anyone says that it was declined, Ant gave me another chance of sorts, given that only he and @Abstractions in terms of current staff members disagreed, that and there being some pending actions even if the page is to stay.

That being said, I'll start with the new problem I've noticed on keeping this page:

Well the big conclusion that is supposed to come from this is elemental manipulation being removed. Which isn’t going to happen because it would need to be a site wide revision and there’s zero way this would ever get enough attention to be site wide. “you can always just index the respective powers the character in question has directly” But why do that when you have a word that perfectly describes all of those powers. You don’t need to waste space and time typing Sand, Fire, Smoke, Ice, Lightning, Air, Earth, Light, and Darkness manipulation, when you can just say elemental manipulation. Plus if you list the powers individually to give them proper descriptions then you have to add manipulation after all those elements. Look at the Electroblob’s Wizardry page on Fc/oc. When I made it I didn’t know elemental manipulation was a thing. So take that page and imagine I replaced all those separate elements with elemental manipulation (I would do it now, but I don’t know how to edit tabbers). The page would be vastly cleaner and easier to read. I don’t care if elemental manipulation has a small purpose, it has a purpose and it would be way too much effort to remove. Plus many people do like it.
Perfectly describes? A better term would be "Unecessarily turns details on pages harder to find".

I'll bring up three cases:

1: "[[Fire Manipulation]]",
2: "[[Elemental Manipulation]] (Fire, Y can use it in Z manner)"
3: "[[Elemental Manipulation]] (Y can use [[Fire Manipulation|fire]] in the Z manner)"

A bot that tries to clean up a verse in question for the removal of Fire Manipulation will easily find the first option, but won't find the second case as it's most likely based on the What Links Here feature, given that it is compromised whenever Elemental Manipulation is used for the purpose you describe, if a verse has to have Fire Manipulation removed (or reworded) for some reason, but if it doesn't link back to the Electricity Manipulation page to filter the cases to remove in the first place, then now you clearly have a burden that requires being found manually, and filtering further by just searching for "What Links to Elemental Manipulation" as well or so can bring false positives for this kind of purpose, all for saving a few words at most.

And while the third option is a middleground that keeps a link to Fire Manipulation and Elemental Manipulation, the ones that want to keep Elemental Manipulation like you appear to dislike it as it just turns listing stuff even harder than if this "power" was around in the first place, showing how it's redundant, unecessary and overall counterproductive.

This could also be fixed by a way I'll explain later.
The only thing we would need to do if it stays is add a category to pages. Which is a very minor side thing that can be slowly added to pages over time. If we remove elemental manipulation we would have to change all the pages that have it all at once. And your problem was you didn’t know which element they can manipulate, so you wouldn’t be able to give those pages the proper elements. There are a lot of problems that can happen if we nuke elemental manipulation and we gain nothing because it exist for organization.
Easy, such pages that just listed "Elemental Manipulation" without further details would just have it removed (We do that to nearly anything), and some listing would be done on cases where this happens (namely to keep it clear to users that the respective page may need a revision).

Cases where it's said which "elements" the character in question does manipulate would just be listed as they were, but with the "Elemental Manipulation" part and the parenthesis over it (if any) removed. And as mentioned before, while it technically has a purpose, it does more negatives than positives in the long run from what I've seen, makes links regarding something within a verse harder to find for organization purposes (ironically), promotes inconsistent formatting, etc. Status Effect Inducement is also a relic from over 5 years back in the wiki, two wrongs don't make a right and it may as well be in needs of revisions in the same way.

Okay, now I'll go reminding the other stuff to do if the page is to remain:

1: Elemental Manipulation's usage for indexing being optional.
After all, by itself it covers nothing, and just listing directly each "subset" of it is about as effective.


2: The category "Element Users" being added to all characters that have at least two or more of its "subsets" regardless of if Elemental Manipulation is actually listed or not.
Now I'm mentioning the other alternative I said I was going to say before, if this page is to remain, all characters that have two or more powers that are considered "subsets" (As in, listed) within Elemental Manipulation get the Element Users category, this helps to remain consistent on regards of this "power" and eases finding pages that meet this criteria.
If the above is done, the Elemental Manipulation page should also be edited accordingly to keep it clear.
 
I thought that you said that you would no longer try to delete this page and did not want the other thread reopened via our correspondence on my message wall.

If you are going to continue to try to get it removed, it is better if we delete this thread and reopen the old one, where me Keeweed, Abstractions, and a regular member (Keeweed?) already countered your points.
 
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