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Also holy hell this creates some weird scaling chains
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Elden Ring Profiles
- Thread starter ArkhamDC06
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- elden ring
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I also wanna say I'm a bit sick of seeing comments of people saying Radahn holding back the stars doesn't require any notable effort or power on his part, completely ignoring the fact it was called an entire conflict and the words used to describe the event all lean towards the physical side, like wrestling the stars or battling them. The fact a good many suddenly zip around after he died shows they were actively fighting back against him the whole time as well
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This one is a bit wack? If Okina could harm Mohg but then was nothing to a weakened Radahn, than it starts to make Mohg scaling to Radahn to the 7-A value questionable.
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Not really, nothing says Okina actually harmed Mohg, only that he battled him and Mohg was so impressed with ferocity and his battle lust he made him one of his followers to allow him to fight forever
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Also, I applied some of the changes proposed by Qawsedf in my Rennala and Elden Beast drafts
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I'm pretty sure that indicates he does? Albeit I don't think Okina is stronger than Mohg is.
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Rennala's At least 8-A+ should be Low 7-C via upscaling
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Wasn't it "At least 8-A+, likely High 7-C"? What's the new stuff then?
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Mmh true
In any case, Mohg has his Omen self under Leyndell that solidly puts him into the 7-A territory since the illusion is fought under Leyndell and obviously, by that point the Tarnished has already defeated Radahn and the illusion is much weaker than the real deal
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Literally nothing implies Morgott tried to break the thorns, in fact it's the opposite, his whole character is about remaining faithful and subversient to the Golden Order to the point he outright refuses to let anyone becoming Elden Lord, he literally had no reason to try to break the thorns so we shouldn't use that part about him
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Also, Enia says Gideon is the only other Tarnished in the Roundtable who managed to get a Great Rune if I remember correctly
And about the Tarnished profile, shouldn't everyone have his Immortality types 1 and 2?
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The 8-A+ value is co close to Low 7-C that the gap is 1.14x, considering Godrick and Rennala are superior to the fullgrown fallingstar beast, which is 8-A+, they should be Low 7-C via upscaling.
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So simply straight Low 7-C?
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Yeah. This only applies for the Tarnished, Rennala, Godrick, Varre, Godefroy and Vyke I guess
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Since it applies to Godefroy, wouldn't it apply to Kristoff to since he defeated Godefroy in his life?
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Sure
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Bernahl also scales to this probably
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Also I think we should give a key to Frenzied Flame Tarnished who burned the entire Lands Between. Likely a Tier 6 feat.
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Any idea of what tier we would get out of this? Especially since the weapon you get from Bernahl pretty much spells out there's a whole planet
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I think it's mentioned it's only the Lands Between that's getting barbequed
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Okina being able to harm Mohg and not being a major factor against Radahn doesn't need to be contradictory. He only hit Mohg once and did seemingly minor damage. Could be the same case with Radahn, where he can harm him but not do relevant amounts of damage.
I disagree there
Morgott says it wards off all, which would include himself. It's also why Vyke and Brenthl went to the Fire Giant's forge to try and burn the thorns.
There'stwo ends, one for a normal Falling Starbeast and one for the older Falling Starbeast. The latter has the higher rating with the plus, but sense we acknowledge two ends i don't know if upscaling is really that notable.
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Well yeah, obviously he's aware of the situation but again, his whole character is about being utterly devoted to the Golden Order to the point of being a fanatic who outright refuses to allow anyone to become lord even if he knows he's basically destroying the last chance the LB have to be saved. The failure he talks about is, judging on his character, either his nature as an Omen, which considering his fanaticism, he would see as a failure towards the GW (which hates Omens and encouraged abuse and racism against them, something Morgott internalized until he himself became begoted against his own kind) and his inner knowledge that what he does is pointless and in fact contributes to the doom of the world. His introduction cutscene has him criticizing (and nearly insulting in the case of Rykard) the Shardbearers for betraying the GW whereas he remained faithful. Not to mention that, as an Omen, he knew he had no right claim to the throne so obviously the Edtree would refuse him and see him as a failure to its standards. Since his character is all about being fanatically devoted to the Edtree, it wouldn't make sense for him to try to burn the thorns
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Fair I guess
Upscaling is alright for the normal end afaik, but not for the likely/possibly ends. Plus, It's not like the High 7-C value is close to the baseline of Low 7-B either, it's barely baseline High 7-C, so upscaling is fine
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I'm not suggesting he burned the thorns, but that he couldn't get through them.
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Also, someone brought it up earlier, I don't think Alexander's Fire Giant statement should be taken fully seriously, not only because we don't have any reason to think Alexander would know how strong a god really is, but also because the Fire Giant's entire race was massacred by Godfrey and his soldiers, with the one we fight in-game being the last one. It'd mean Godfrey is far stronger than Marika/Radagon if he and his army could literally slaughter a race of being's on par with genuine gods.
But it could suggest that the Fire Giant at least likely scales above Radahn, more than us just having the Fire Giant's boss placement to go off of. Alexander canonically fights Radahn earlier in the questline, yet remarks the Fire Giant as being on the same level as a being who would naturally be superior to Radahn. The fact that he knows Radahn is a demi-god yet compares the Fire Giant's power to that of an actual god means that Alexander strongly believes the Fire Giant is stronger than Radahn, even after seeing both of them in battle.
But it could suggest that the Fire Giant at least likely scales above Radahn, more than us just having the Fire Giant's boss placement to go off of. Alexander canonically fights Radahn earlier in the questline, yet remarks the Fire Giant as being on the same level as a being who would naturally be superior to Radahn. The fact that he knows Radahn is a demi-god yet compares the Fire Giant's power to that of an actual god means that Alexander strongly believes the Fire Giant is stronger than Radahn, even after seeing both of them in battle.
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He knows how strong Radahn is and was still shocked by the Fire Giant's strength though, which is a bigger factor in my view.
Yeah, that was my intention. It was to be used to justify the "At least" rating for the "At least 7-A, possibly High 4-C" stuff the PC and Malenia has.
I mean, assuming the PC lost Godfrey was supremely confident that he could take on Radagon/Marika since he was going there right after to claim the title of Elden Lord.
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Plus Fire Giant still fights late game Tarnished so he'd easily get At least either way.
Also Nepheli Loud should also get Low 7-C via scaling to Gorick, and probably Margit as well
Also Nepheli Loud should also get Low 7-C via scaling to Gorick, and probably Margit as well
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Like the big bosses are very much established to be heavy threats and challenges to the Tarnished, so them scaling to the Tarnished is fine, but it's starts to get a little eh when it comes to more minor characters.
I prefer if we go by their lore
I do think the random Tarnished should all at least scale to the BOG Tarnished who can fight the Tree Sentinel, as that version of the Tarnished has no access to getting stronger and is still regarded as like some form of newbie by the roundtable hold. It's only until you kill a runebearer till the Roundtable hold acknowledges you.
I prefer if we go by their lore
I do think the random Tarnished should all at least scale to the BOG Tarnished who can fight the Tree Sentinel, as that version of the Tarnished has no access to getting stronger and is still regarded as like some form of newbie by the roundtable hold. It's only until you kill a runebearer till the Roundtable hold acknowledges you.
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Moongrum:
Not too much. All lore we have on him is what's said in the equipment used by Carian Knight's like himself, iirc.
"The enchanted knights, anointed by the Lunar Queen, were heroes of the highest honors, but fell into disarray with the decline of the royal family." From the armor.
"These knights' swords could serve as catalysts, letting them wield sorcerous battle skills. Despite numbering fewer than twenty, this power made them a match for even the champions of gold in battle." From the sword. "champions of gold" is pretty vague, but it is certainly referring to the war between Caria and Radagon. Most likely referring to high-tier soldiers in Radagon's forces, but that's speculation.
"Excels when facing magic or holy attacks. Just who were these
knights preparing to fight?" This is referencing Radagon's forces again, as the Golden Order uses holy magic and this is defensive against holy magic. Also Moongram should have limited Holy Resistance for it.
Esgar:
I don't think he has any relevant lore beyond the fact that he serves Mohg directly, is in Leyndell's sewers, and obviously uses blood magic.
Hugues:
I also don't think he has much going for him. Which makes sense because his model and attacks are used for normal enemies later on. Kind of a throwaway enemy, tbh I don't think he deserves a page, but that's just me.
Adan:
He actually has an interesting statement in his main attack, Flame of the Fell God.
"This legendary incantation is one of several that draws directly
from the power of the Fire Giants.
Releases a ball of raging fire said to be inhabited by a fell god. The
fireball floats toward enemies and explodes, setting the area
ablaze.
Arghanthy, the chief guardian of the Flame, had kept this incantation a well-kept secret until it was stolen by Adan. The fell god still lurks within the Fire Giants."
This is the same attack that the Fire Giant uses, the ball that follows you around and eventually explodes with a small wind-up. And its lore even confirms it. So I guess Adan could be scaled to the Fire Giant, but only using that specific attack.
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I think Moongrum being superior to Beginning of Game Tarnished just by his status of being a champion should make him "At least 8-B, likely 7-C"
Oof. I think it maybe possible to upscale him from Varre considering Varre's role is that of just recruiter rather than a fighter.
Well that's a yikes. I think he should probably upscale from fodder sorcerers. The fodder sorcerers could upscale from the demi human queen's GPE. Might get 9-A. The sorcerers see the demi human queen as a joke iirc.
This one is wack, while it is a similar attack, it isn't anywhere near as powerful considering iirc the early game Tarnished can survive it. Can probably upscale from the fodder Tarnished? This one scaling to the Early Game Tarnished might be plausible just going by his lore.
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Moongrum-That's fine.
Esgar-Varre is most likely quite strong among Mohg's named servants actually, as he was the only one among a group of kidnapped war surgeons to tame the accursed blood of Mohg, meaning he's built different, he has the task of recruiting new Bloody Fingers directly, without even addressing Mohg himself, and he can even give people access to Mohg's Palace of his own volition, which means that Mohg definitely has immense trust in his capabilities. There is also some cut dialogue from Yura that implies Varre would have blitzed Yura, who can fight and defeat other Bloody Finger's, but since it was cut from the questline it's no longer applicable, unfortunately. Although, an interesting thing I've found is that, despite every Bloody Finger having the mark of Mohg's spear on their face, Esgar doesn't, which might imply that Esgar is special in some way. He can use one of the same incantations as Varre, an incantation from Mohg himself, and an incantation from Nejirus, who Yura remarks as being very powerful, in addition to being close to Mohg and a direct servant of him, so I'd still say Esgar could be scaled to the same level as Varre level characters.
Also, some interesting scaling for Eleonara from Yura. If you beat Agheel, he'll comment on it and that you fought well. But even after that much later on in mid-Liurnia, he'll tell you to run without hesitation if you see Eleonara, acting as if facing her would be suicidal. So we can pretty confidently say Eleonara scales considerably above Agheel. Whereas Godrick remarks some random dragon as a mighty being equal to himself. So Eleonara is probably stronger than Godrick, or at least Godrick pre-dragon.
Hugues-Yeah that'd be fair if we wanted him to have a profile. Scaling him above random fodder mages actually makes sense because he's specifically called a "Battlemage", obviously implying he's more suited for combat than regular mages.
Adan-It's sort of early-game, but closer to what I would call mid-game. Adan is right next to Ranni's location in northern Liurna, so the fight should definitely be after Godrick, and most likely Rennala, but before Caelid and after. The explosion was actually a one-shot when I first fought him on my original playthrough, so idk if it's something you're supposed to be able to tank at the time, but I guess scaling a barely mid-game boss to a near-endgame boss even with only one attack is questionable. But I still think it warrants a "higher" above his physical stats, which should scale to the Tarnished at the time.
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Not relevant to the characters in discussion, but there's also a noteworthy statement about the Troll Knight's that use magic.
"They were the comrades of the young Rennala, bound by oath." Young would imply prime, so they fought alongside prime Rennala. I wouldn't say that means they scale to her, but it could be a good reference if they got pages.
Carian Knight's should also have limited Sleep and Madness resistance via the Lucidity sorcery.
"One of the sorceries of the Carian royal family.
Alleviates buildup of sleep and madness.
This sorcery can be cast while in motion.
The Carian knights never waver."
"They were the comrades of the young Rennala, bound by oath." Young would imply prime, so they fought alongside prime Rennala. I wouldn't say that means they scale to her, but it could be a good reference if they got pages.
Carian Knight's should also have limited Sleep and Madness resistance via the Lucidity sorcery.
"One of the sorceries of the Carian royal family.
Alleviates buildup of sleep and madness.
This sorcery can be cast while in motion.
The Carian knights never waver."
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Wait mb, Adan is in early-Liurnia near Stormveil, I was thinking of an Onyx enemy or whatever. So Adan is shortly after Godrick.
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Edgar being comparable to Varre sounds plausible
Makes sense to me.
Adana can probably scale to Early Game Tarnished.
Hughues is the most wack tbh
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I'm making CRT for tier 0 Patches as well.
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Poggers
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So how should I scale Esgar, Adan, Hugues and Moongrum then (since I made them with the scaling we originally went for so it's up to me to correct them)?
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