Elden Ring Profiles

[ArkhamDC06]

I think you're a bit confused, the second siege is the one Morgott defended and the one I'm saying Radahn initiated. Radahn defended Leyndell from Godrick in the first siege.

I understood what you were saying, it was just bad prasing on my part, my apologies. I personally believe the First Siege was led by Radahn and the second by Godrick though.

I'm not saying she fought Radahn for the hell of it, I'm saying that there are multiple factors at play in her decision making.
1. She clearly cared about her honor as per why she went and fought Godrick after he personally insulted her, as per why challenging Radahn during a war between Demigods isnt out of character.

Godrick is a pathetic jerk who thinks too highly of himself. The guy isn't Radahn or Morgott, he has no loyalty, not a shred of honor, no genuine feat to back up his claims, he's unbearable. Malenia trashing him for insulting her is notable because this is the only time she brutalizes someone like that in the lore and it's brought up as something significant at least for Godrick. It seems she did that not because she felt insulted but she felt insulted by him, a pathetic excuse for a lord with zero genuine martial feat daring to talk her down afetr all she had done and defeated. It's the equivalent of martial arts novice insulting a marine with a decade of experience at fighting, putting him in his place was not only done because of her honor but also because he deserved every bit of it.

2. Radahn holding the stars means that everyone's fate remains stagnant and Miquella would not succeed in separating himself and Melania from the influence of the Greater Will, so his defeat would mean that Miquella's plan could be fulfilled. Much like how Ranni required the Tarnished to kill Radahn so that way she could kill her two fingers and initiate the Age of Stars.

Except that there is no way for her to get to Moghwyn Palace in Caelid, the only ways that we are able to get to Moghwyn Palace is through a gateway teleporter in the Consecrated Snowfield, which Malenia would have had to pass by in order to get to Caelid. On top of that no one knows where Mogh is, not
even Morgott, so I don't really understand how Malenia would even get that information.

It's entire possible she got some information that led her to belive Miquella was in Caelid rather than anywhere else. Again, I know I repeat myself but the Mohgwyn palace where Miquella is detained in his cocoon is put exactly under Aeonia Swamp. It's outright impossible it's just a design coincidence, it's way too significant.

Miquella doesn't really have characterization, everything we learn about him is through item descriptions and character dialogue. Yes he was kind and open-minded, but that doesn't mean he didn't use military might when necessary. Seeing as how the stars decided everyone's fate and Radahn controlled the stars, I don't see anyone else capable of defeating Radahn that Miquella could send, it was Melania or no one.

Yes, and nothing we learn about him suggests anything remotely close to military intentions or a need to kill people, let alone sending his beloved sister against perhaps the only guy in the LB who not only could be a genuine challenge for her but was so strong and skilled he actually had more than a genuine shot at potentially killing her.

Two Fingers or not, the Greater Will still apparently has a power over Emyreans, Two Fingers just seem to make it easier to directly manipulate one. Also it isnt just themselves that Miquella wishes to free from the Greater Will, but the outside world. This is why Miquella wanted to create the Haligtree, to serve as a vessel similar to the Erdtree but outside the control of an Outer God.

I'm gonna gather everything you said about stars here. All of Miquella's efforts were focused on creating the Haligtree and crafting the Needles. Literally, everything in his lore is centered around these two things. All his work was put into these two specific elements. Why? Because he didn't need anything else. He didn't need for Radahn to die so the stars could be released. All he need, he already had it. Look at the Haligtree, it's not Edtree-size but it's gigantic enough to contain a Leyndell-like city, the tree was already enormous and clearly growing and well on its way to serve its purpose. Meaning that Miquella's plans were advancing even without the stars. Not only that but his needles not only proved themselves strong enough to stop Scarlet Rot infection (the influence of an Outer God) as long as put in someone's body but they can also destroy the influence of the Frenzied Flame, an Outer God stronge enough to burn the Edtree and really the entire world to ashes almost instantly, and that's the unfinished version that needs to be put in Placidusax's lair to work and the description of Miquella's needle makes it clear it was only one of the needles he created and implies the others were finished. Everything he needed to replace the Edtree was already at hand, stars or not. He literally had not reason for Radahn to die because him blocking the stars clearly had zero influence over his plans. The ONLY reason he failed was because of Mohg abducting him, that's it. Why would he need the stars if his plans were moving in the right direction without them?

 

[Abbadon_the_Chaos_King]

I understood what you were saying, it was just bad prasing on my part, my apologies. I personally believe the First Siege was led by Radahn and the second by Godrick though.

Fair enough. Apologies if I sounded harsh as well.

Godrick is a pathetic jerk who thinks too highly of himself. The guy isn't Radahn or Morgott, he has no loyalty, not a shred of honor, no genuine feat to back up his claims, he's unbearable. Malenia trashing him for insulting her is notable because this is the only time she brutalizes someone like that in the lore and it's brought up as something significant at least for Godrick. It seems she did that not because she felt insulted but she felt insulted by him, a pathetic excuse for a lord with zero genuine martial feat daring to talk her down afetr all she had done and defeated. It's the equivalent of martial arts novice insulting a marine with a decade of experience at fighting, putting him in his place was not only done because of her honor but also because he deserved every bit of it.

In my opinion, I don't really see why Malenia wouldn't fight Radahn. If she believed someone as cowardly as Godrick deserves her attention, it would make complete sense that someone like Radahn, who is touted as the strongest warrior in the Lands Between, would also garner her attention. Also I think her going after Godrick kind of disproves the idea that she would stay with Miquella constantly as there was absolutely no reason for her to fight Godrick other than him being a little turd burglar and talking shit.

It's entire possible she got some information that led her to belive Miquella was in Caelid rather than anywhere else. Again, I know I repeat myself but the Mohgwyn palace where Miquella is detained in his cocoon is put exactly under Aeonia Swamp. It's outright impossible it's just a design coincidence, it's way too significant.

I admit, it's VERY convenient and coincidental that they are in the same place, but I still lean heavily on my arguments that Mohg was in hiding for most of his life and that it would be very difficult or even outright impossible to find him if you weren't already investigating the undergrounds cities or involved in his blood cult. There's also the fact that there are no entrances to Mohgwyn Palace in Caelid, so even if she knew thats where it generally was, there was no way for her to get in.

Yes, and nothing we learn about him suggests anything remotely close to military intentions or a need to kill people, let alone sending his beloved sister against perhaps the only guy in the LB who not only could be a genuine challenge for her but was so strong and skilled he actually had more than a genuine shot at potentially killing her.

Miquella's devotion to growing the Haligtree was fierce, I'd say he would even give his life to see it succeed. Miquella probably wasnt military minded but he had many people around him, including Malenia, who were.

I'm gonna gather everything you said about stars here. All of Miquella's efforts were focused on creating the Haligtree and crafting the Needles. Literally, everything in his lore is centered around these two things. All his work was put into these two specific elements. Why? Because he didn't need anything else. He didn't need for Radahn to die so the stars could be released. All he need, he already had it. Look at the Haligtree, it's not Edtree-size but it's gigantic enough to contain a Leyndell-like city, the tree was already enormous and clearly growing and well on its way to serve its purpose. Meaning that Miquella's plans were advancing even without the stars. Not only that but his needles not only proved themselves strong enough to stop Scarlet Rot infection (the influence of an Outer God) as long as put in someone's body but they can also destroy the influence of the Frenzied Flame, an Outer God stronge enough to burn the Edtree and really the entire world to ashes almost instantly, and that's the unfinished version that needs to be put in Placidusax's lair to work and the description of Miquella's needle makes it clear it was only one of the needles he created and implies the others were finished. Everything he needed to replace the Edtree was already at hand, stars or not. He literally had not reason for Radahn to die because him blocking the stars clearly had zero influence over his plans. The ONLY reason he failed was because of Mohg abducting him, that's it. Why would he need the stars if his plans were moving in the right direction without them?

Then what would the point be of outright stating that the stars ALSO has an effect on the fate of the Gods? If the Demigods could do as they wish then there would be no point in Ranni wanting Radahn dead, there is also A LOT of ambiguity surrounding her questline as well as to how the stars affect her fate but it's simply stated as much and we move one. Ambiguity is something that Miyazaki loves to incorporate into his stories and for this reason it's my personal opinion that the stars DID affect Miquella's plans and as per the reason Malenia fought Radahn. I feel as though due to that ambiguity that we will just have to agree and disagree, which I think was probably the intended affect. Narrowing down the logic for the characters can be really hard in these games.\

Edit: Added this later cuz I just thought about it, sorry if you didnt see it in time.

There's also the fact that the item description from the Haligtree Crest Surcoat states that Miquella watered the Haligtree with his blood for it to grow and it still failed to become and Erdtree, there is no mention of him using himself as a power source and cocooning himself in it. So I'm interpreting this as originally, Miquella thought by nurturing the Haligtree it could become an Erdtree but that was not enough, so he used himself to amplify and grow it so that it would become and Erdtree and also undo his curse of eternal youth.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Nothing says she didn't at least got some informations or knew something that led her to . Again, she went from the Haligtree to Caelid, which are completely opposite to each other in the map, and fought Radahn in a location that is exactly above the very specific place where Miquella is. This is way too significant to just be a coincidence, especially with Fromsoftware where every little tiny item tells a story, so obviously something as glaring as this has to be significant. And literally nothing in the game supports the idea that Malenia is a thrill seeker blood knight seeking challenge just cause why not. In fact, this description actually fits Radahn himself, Malenia for her part is simply devoted to her brother, to the point she followed him in his plot for the Haligtree, defying the GW, and didn't care about glory. All she cared about was 1) protecting her brother and 2) restraining the Scarlet Rot. And again, this is more about feelings than defense. Malenia and Miquella are clearly extremely close, with statues of them depicting embracing each other, she's utterly devoted to him to the point she abandonned her shot at succeeding Marika to follow him and let him lead his own land. Putting the two and two together, with all we know about Malenia as a character, her devotion to Miquella, her lack of interest in glory including from battle, the location of Mohgwhyn and the Swamp and Miquella being exactly under the very specific spot where Malenia and Radahn fought, Malenia having somehow accessed some clues about Miquella being near Caelid is literally the ONLY logical reason for why she would do all of this.

I very much agree to this.

 

[GIANTkitty]

Why do people hate Omens again? Is just because they have Horns?

Because it's implied they were granted a blessing by the Crucible of Life rather than the Greater Will, and the Greater Will isn't a fan of that. Their existence is therefore heretical according to society under the Golden Order.
So basically it's because of a petty outer god.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Tldr; Racism

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Fair enough. Apologies if I sounded harsh as well.

No problem, like I said, it was bad phrasing from me

In my opinion, I don't really see why Malenia wouldn't fight Radahn. If she believed someone as cowardly as Godrick deserves her attention, it would make complete sense that someone like Radahn, who is touted as the strongest warrior in the Lands Between, would also garner her attention. Also I think her going after Godrick kind of disproves the idea that she would stay with Miquella constantly as there was absolutely no reason for her to fight Godrick other than him being a little turd burglar and talking shit.

It's not about Godrick deserving her attention (he definitely doesn't). It's about him being who he is and still daring to challenge her. The guy is loathsome and pathetic, yet he thought he had a right claim at challening her. That specific part, Godrick being Godrick, is why he needed to be put in his place. Basically, it was her saying "See? You're just shit, you've always been shit, and the only reason I'm giving you attention is that I won't tolerate a shit like you insulting me, for really you deserve none of my attention, you just needed to be shown how much of a pathetic weakling you are.".

I admit, it's VERY convenient and coincidental that they are in the same place, but I still lean heavily on my arguments that Mohg was in hiding for most of his life and that it would be very difficult or even outright impossible to find him if you weren't already investigating the undergrounds cities or involved in his blood cult. There's also the fact that there are no entrances to Mohgwyn Palace in Caelid, so even if she knew thats where it generally was, there was no way for her to get in.

Like I said, nothing says Malenia didn't get her hands on something that have led her to believe Miquella was in Caelid, or at least near the place. Of course, we all know this is not the case unfortunately for her (and Miquella and really the LB at large) and she definitely didn't know where exactly Mohgwyn was or how to get there (which is pretty much impossible if you're not part of Mohg's cult or you're not getting kidnapped) but the fact remains she was right above his location and aimed to go there.

Miquella's devotion to growing the Haligtree was fierce, I'd say he would even give his life to see it succeed. Miquella probably wasnt military minded but he had many people around him, including Malenia, who were.


Then what would the point be of outright stating that the stars ALSO has an effect on the fate of the Gods? If the Demigods could do as they wish then there would be no point in Ranni wanting Radahn dead, there is also A LOT of ambiguity surrounding her questline as well as to how the stars affect her fate but it's simply stated as much and we move one. Ambiguity is something that Miyazaki loves to incorporate into his stories and for this reason it's my personal opinion that the stars DID affect Miquella's plans and as per the reason Malenia fought Radahn.

Honestly I only remember the stars affecting the Empyreans and not the gods like Marika (let alone the Outer Gods) and even then, stars were only the focus for power in Ranni's quest and everything surrounding the Academy and the Carian family. And the Demigods did as they wished. Godrick was grafting Tarnished and tried to attack the capital, Mohg was kidnapping an Empyrean and building his own cult in favor of another Outer God (I admit, you can right this off by saying he did have the support of another Outer God so) and Rykard openly declared his intention to go against the GW and the Golden Order and was growing in power in order to devour the gods (and between his hatred for the GO, his growing hunger and Bernahl's dialogue, it's implied he wanted to go after Outer Gods). None of them were influenced by the stars.
Miquella was pretty much in the same situation, he had all he needed for his plans, his Haligtree was growing (and again ginormous enough to have a Leyndell-like city, plus a smaller but still impressive settlement above long after he was abducted). If the stars were really blocking him, he wouldn't have went that far. Again, literally the only thing that went wrong with his plans was Mohg kidnapping him.

I feel as though due to that ambiguity that we will just have to agree and disagree, which I think was probably the intended affect. Narrowing down the logic for the characters can be really hard in these games.

Definitely agreeing with you on this (although isn't that one of the reasons these games are so well-liked lol?)

Edit: Added this later cuz I just thought about it, sorry if you didnt see it in time.

There's also the fact that the item description from the Haligtree Crest Surcoat states that Miquella watered the Haligtree with his blood for it to grow and it still failed to become and Erdtree, there is no mention of him using himself as a power source and cocooning himself in it. So I'm interpreting this as originally, Miquella thought by nurturing the Haligtree it could become an Erdtree but that was not enough, so he used himself to amplify and grow it so that it would become and Erdtree and also undo his curse of eternal youth.

It's ok, red your post only after you posted that

If he was using his own blood to power it, then he was using himself as a power source. And in any case, like you said, he ultimately cocooned himself in it, so he was powering it regardless.

 

[Abbadon_the_Chaos_King]

No problem, like I said, it was bad phrasing from me

It's not about Godrick deserving her attention (he definitely doesn't). It's about him being who he is and still daring to challenge her. The guy is loathsome and pathetic, yet he thought he had a right claim at challening her. That specific part, Godrick being Godrick, is why he needed to be put in his place. Basically, it was her saying "See? You're just shit, you've always been shit, and the only reason I'm giving you attention is that I won't tolerate a shit like you insulting me, for really you deserve none of my attention, you just needed to be shown how much of a pathetic weakling you are.".

Honestly, I feel like it should be the other way around no? Why would Malenia bother with someone like Godrick, he has no honor or reputation beyond his cowardice so what would the point be in even fighting him?

Like I said, nothing says Malenia didn't get her hands on something that have led her to believe Miquella was in Caelid, or at least near the place. Of course, we all know this is not the case unfortunately for her (and Miquella and really the LB at large) and she definitely didn't know where exactly Mohgwyn was or how to get there (which is pretty much impossible if you're not part of Mohg's cult or you're not getting kidnapped) but the fact remains she was right above his location and aimed to go there.

It's just that to me, it doesn't really make a lot of sense for her to figure out it would be under Caelid but have no idea how to get in. How many people would ACTUALLY have that information anyway? The entrance to Mohgwyn Palace and it's actual location underground are so far from each other that it doesn't seem like ANYONE would be able to tell where it actually was. Imo I just don't really see how she would be able to figure out that specific information without knowing how to get in first.

Honestly I only remember the stars affecting the Empyreans and not the gods like Marika (let alone the Outer Gods) and even then, stars were only the focus for power in Ranni's quest and everything surrounding the Academy and the Carian family.

I think the Amber Starlight is more so talking about Demigods and Empyreans specifically than the Outer Gods, since Seluvis uses it specifically to betray Ranni.

And the Demigods did as they wished. Godrick was grafting Tarnished and tried to attack the capital, Mohg was kidnapping an Empyrean and building his own cult in favor of another Outer God (I admit, you can right this off by saying he did have the support of another Outer God so) and Rykard openly declared his intention to go against the GW and the Golden Order and was growing in power in order to devour the gods (and between his hatred for the GO, his growing hunger and Bernahl's dialogue, it's implied he wanted to go after Outer Gods). None of them were influenced by the stars.
Miquella was pretty much in the same situation, he had all he needed for his plans, his Haligtree was growing (and again ginormous enough to have a Leyndell-like city, plus a smaller but still impressive settlement above long after he was abducted). If the stars were really blocking him, he wouldn't have went that far. Again, literally the only thing that went wrong with his plans was Mohg kidnapping him.

Well Godrick never really went against the Greater Will, nor did he accomplish anything of note. He grafted his soldiers and tried to become strong, but failed. Mohg was also unable to accomplish his goal, Mohg wanted Miquella to become the new God of the Lands Between like Merika and use him as a way to become Elden Lord, but I think it's quite apparent during his pre-fight cutscene that Miquella is not in a state where that seems possible and is more akin to a husk than anything. Rykard also didn't seem to ever reach a stage of power where challenging the GW directly seemed possible, after all he was beaten by the Tarnished. Miquella definitely got the farthest with his plans but even still, had to go as far as using himself to amp the Haligtree and STILL failed when Mohg kidnapped him. All in all, I never would say any of the Demigods got far enough with there plans to be considered threatening to the status quo of the GW. I would also like to point out that Ranni also managed to get far with her plans as well with the stars being halted, being able to use Destined Death to kill Godwyn and discard her flesh, but in the end she needed the stars to resume there movement in order to get into the final stages.

Definitely agreeing with you on this (although isn't that one of the reasons these games are so well-liked lol?)

Absolutely.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Honestly, I feel like it should be the other way around no? Why would Malenia bother with someone like Godrick, he has no honor or reputation beyond his cowardice so what would the point be in even fighting him?

Precisely because he's a lowly shit who has nothing to back up his claim, yet dares to challenge her. It IS a quetsion of honor but not honor as "As a fighter, I must respond to this challenge" but rather "Did that little shit who is less skilled and strong than one of the basic soldiers in my army, challenged me? I can't let that pass, I'm gonna obliterate his ass to show him how weak he is". Humiliation to put him in his place. It's like a smug little cousin challenging you to your favorite video game and you humiliate them to teach them how pathetic they are. Same thing.

It's just that to me, it doesn't really make a lot of sense for her to figure out it would be under Caelid but have no idea how to get in. How many people would ACTUALLY have that information anyway? The entrance to Mohgwyn Palace and it's actual location underground are so far from each other that it doesn't seem like ANYONE would be able to tell where it actually was. Imo I just don't really see how she would be able to figure out that specific information without knowing how to get in first.

The lore is filled with mysteries and absolutely unclear on many things, it's entirely possible Malenia got something that led her to believe he was in Caelid.

I think the Amber Starlight is more so talking about Demigods and Empyreans specifically than the Outer Gods, since Seluvis uses it specifically to betray Ranni.

Seluvis wanted to use that to turn Ranni into a puppet for his own needs (don't think I need to explain what those needs were), it wasn't about controlling her fate.

Well Godrick never really went against the Greater Will, nor did he accomplish anything of note. He grafted his soldiers and tried to become strong, but failed. Mohg was also unable to accomplish his goal, Mohg wanted Miquella to become the new God of the Lands Between like Merika and use him as a way to become Elden Lord, but I think it's quite apparent during his pre-fight cutscene that Miquella is not in a state where that seems possible and is more akin to a husk than anything. Rykard also didn't seem to ever reach a stage of power where challenging the GW directly seemed possible, after all he was beaten by the Tarnished. Miquella definitely got the farthest with his plans but even still, had to go as far as using himself to amp the Haligtree and STILL failed when Mohg kidnapped him. All in all, I never would say any of the Demigods got far enough with there plans to be considered threatening to the status quo of the GW. I would also like to point out that Ranni also managed to get far with her plans as well with the stars being halted, being able to use Destined Death to kill Godwyn and discard her flesh, but in the end she needed the stars to resume there movement in order to get into the final stages.

But with the exception of Ranni, none of them failed because of the stars. Godrick didn't fail because of the stars, he failed because he was so weak from the start he could have never reached the power he wanted even without the Tarnished killing him. Mohg didn't fail because of the stars, he failed because Miquella wasn't reborn before the Tarnished came to him, which is implied to be because the Formless Mother manipulated him. Rykard didn't fail because of the stars, he failed because the Tarnished killed him. And, again and you say yourself, Miquella didn't fail because of the stars, he failed because Mohg kidnapped him before the Haligtree was ready.
And even then, it's not really about succeeding, it's about advancing in their plans. The GW ordered a genocide against the Giants for basically being the slaves of another god, simply being an Omen, an Albinauric or a Misbegotten warrants persecution and imprisonement because they're considered heresy, I highly doubt it would have done nothing against a guy who betrayed them for another goddess with the clear intention to establish a new order or the very head of the Inquisition outright declaring their heresy with proud and intending to devour the gods if it could. The simple fact that they were able to get past step 1 in their plans is proof that they didn't need the stars to act, and again their failure have nothing to do with the stars.

About, Ranni she is related to the Carian family but most importantly to the Dark Moon, an Outer God associated with the cosmos and thus the stars. That's why her plans cannot go further without getting rid of Radahn, she still has her set of Two Fingers influencing her and doesn't have the power of the Dark Moon, which is said to guide those who worship it through the stars. Also, notice the ONLY quest and ending for which it is absolutely necessary to kill Radahn to get further is Ranni's. Killing Radahn is totally unnecessary to get to Mohg, Malenia, Rykard or Godrick (or even Morgott for that matter).

 

[ArkhamDC06]

So basically it's because of a petty outer god.

The GW is a supremacist and imperialist which ordered persecution and a genocide through its proxies, the Scarlet Rot is a living disease that kills you very slowly and painfully while eating your mind away at best and turns you into a fungus/centipede-like thing dedicated to spread it at worst, the Fell God enslaved the Giants race and demands physical sacrifices to use its power, the Destined Death god either doesn't care if the Godskin Apostles use its power to flay demigods, gods and really normal people alive or actively encourages it (assuming such god exists), the Frenzied Flame is a nihilistic horror that grants knowledge at the cost of your sanity, causing you to have your eyes burned away or literally falling off of your head, granted body-surfing immortality to a maniac murderer and actively wants to burn all of existence into ashes and the Formless Mother is a ********* deity who granted power over blood to her main champion, who is an incestuous sadistic rapist, and a cult of assassins in exchange for blood sacrifices. Taking aside the Dark Moon (which does has horrific effect, as anything getting too close to glintstone for too long starts to get crystallized until becoming inorganic but even then, it seems to be completely accidental), which seems to be content with chilling in the cosmos and only grant a degree of knowledge to its worshippers, ALL the Outer Gods are petty (assuming you can apply human morality to lovecraftian-like entities like them)

 

[Abbadon_the_Chaos_King]

Precisely because he's a lowly shit who has nothing to back up his claim, yet dares to challenge her. It IS a quetsion of honor but not honor as "As a fighter, I must respond to this challenge" but rather "Did that little shit who is less skilled and strong than one of the basic soldiers in my army, challenged me? I can't let that pass, I'm gonna obliterate his ass to show him how weak he is". Humiliation to put him in his place. It's like a smug little cousin challenging you to your favorite video game and you humiliate them to teach them how pathetic they are. Same thing.

I think we're assuming too much about Malenia's personality. From what I've seen, she's of a different mindset than you believe and I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

The lore is filled with mysteries and absolutely unclear on many things, it's entirely possible Malenia got something that led her to believe he was in Caelid.

Eh, I'll just have to disagree on this one. It's a big coincidence but I just don't see how she could have found any of that information. There's nothing stating she knew where Miquella was or even knew who Mohg is.

Seluvis wanted to use that to turn Ranni into a puppet for his own needs (don't think I need to explain what those needs were), it wasn't about controlling her fate.

I just think him bringing up the fact that Amber Starlight can be used to control the fate of gods is a bit too much of a indicator that it HAS to have something to do with the direct fate of Ranni. Fate is a big part of the general theme of the characters in the game but the way it's applied in story is pretty ambiguous.

But with the exception of Ranni, none of them failed because of the stars. Godrick didn't fail because of the stars, he failed because he was so weak from the start he could have never reached the power he wanted even without the Tarnished killing him. Mohg didn't fail because of the stars, he failed because Miquella wasn't reborn before the Tarnished came to him, which is implied to be because the Formless Mother manipulated him. Rykard didn't fail because of the stars, he failed because the Tarnished killed him. And, again and you say yourself, Miquella didn't fail because of the stars, he failed because Mohg kidnapped him before the Haligtree was ready.
And even then, it's not really about succeeding, it's about advancing in their plans. The GW ordered a genocide against the Giants for basically being the slaves of another god, simply being an Omen, an Albinauric or a Misbegotten warrants persecution and imprisonement because they're considered heresy, I highly doubt it would have done nothing against a guy who betrayed them for another goddess with the clear intention to establish a new order or the very head of the Inquisition outright declaring their heresy with proud and intending to devour the gods if it could. The simple fact that they were able to get past step 1 in their plans is proof that they didn't need the stars to act, and again their failure have nothing to do with the stars.

The thing is though, I feel the way this logic is applied is haphazard. How could the stars affect Ranni's plans but not everyone elses? Especially when it's stated in item descriptions that stars also control the fates of everyone else, including the Gods. Like I said earlier, the way the stars work is incredibly ambiguous; the only reason we can agree that it was needed for Ranni's plans is because it was stated directly in her dialogue. Miyazaki never puts unnecessary information into his games, so the fact that the Amber Starlight description would say that the stars DO affect the fate of the gods is something I don't think we should ignore.

About, Ranni she is related to the Carian family but most importantly to the Dark Moon, an Outer God associated with the cosmos and thus the stars. That's why her plans cannot go further without getting rid of Radahn, she still has her set of Two Fingers influencing her and doesn't have the power of the Dark Moon, which is said to guide those who worship it through the stars. Also, notice the ONLY quest and ending for which it is absolutely necessary to kill Radahn to get further is Ranni's. Killing Radahn is totally unnecessary to get to Mohg, Malenia, Rykard or Godrick (or even Morgott for that matter).

Yes but why would there be item description stating that the stars controlled everyones fate if it only really affected Ranni? I feel like that's something that can't be ignored considering item descriptions are practically WoG.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I think we're assuming too much about Malenia's personality. From what I've seen, she's of a different mindset than you believe and I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Probably. Though we'll have to agree to disagree on most things here

Eh, I'll just have to disagree on this one. It's a big coincidence but I just don't see how she could have found any of that information. There's nothing stating she knew where Miquella was or even knew who Mohg is.

Well she evidently didn't know where Miquella was since she wasn't in the right place, just right above. And yeah, she probably didn't know Mohg considering he and Morgott spent about majority of their life stuck under the capital and later Mohg departed

I just think him bringing up the fact that Amber Starlight can be used to control the fate of gods is a bit too much of a indicator that it HAS to have something to do with the direct fate of Ranni. Fate is a big part of the general theme of the characters in the game but the way it's applied in story is pretty ambiguous.

Considering he talks about Ranni and is a skilled sorcerer, probably

The thing is though, I feel the way this logic is applied is haphazard. How could the stars affect Ranni's plans but not everyone elses? Especially when it's stated in item descriptions that stars also control the fates of everyone else, including the Gods. Like I said earlier, the way the stars work is incredibly ambiguous; the only reason we can agree that it was needed for Ranni's plans is because it was stated directly in her dialogue. Miyazaki never puts unnecessary information into his games, so the fact that the Amber Starlight description would say that the stars DO affect the fate of the gods is something I don't think we should ignore.


Yes but why would there be item description stating that the stars controlled everyones fate if it only really affected Ranni? I feel like that's something that can't be ignored considering item descriptions are practically WoG.

Problem it really visibly only affects her. Like I said, her quest is the only one where Radahn blocking the stars is a problem to go further. All the other Demigods are visibly advancing in their plans at different rate (with the exception of Miquella by the time of the game since, well). If they needed the stars to make any meaningful progress, most wouldn't have achieved the state they're at by the time of the game. That, or we assume this was all part of some secret plans established by the Outer Gods. Plus, yes item description is capital, especially in Fromsoftware game where every tiny little detail is rip for important plot part but the description says "if the stars controls our fate", our as in the people who described this item wrote what they believed. Remember than a large majority of people confuse Starbeasts and actual stars because they don't have the necessary knowledge to make the difference unlike Ranni or Sellen. If anything, the item seems to indicate people believe the destiny of everyone is controlled by the stars because ancient sorcerers who studied the stars first like the Carian family have their own fate tied to them (ok, I'm going a little further with this one but it still kind of make sense with what we know).

In any case, I'm still following my ideas about Miquella, Malenia and co but the plot is too (purposefully) dark to have a proper answer. Maybe we'll get something in the upcoming DLC, especially if it's about Miquella

 

[Abbadon_the_Chaos_King]

Probably. Though we'll have to agree to disagree on most things here

Agreed

Well she evidently didn't know where Miquella was since she wasn't in the right place, just right above. And yeah, she probably didn't know Mohg considering he and Morgott spent about majority of their life stuck under the capital and later Mohg departed

Yeah that's my thought process, it doesn't really seem right that no one else would know where or who Mohg is and for some reason Malenia was able to figure it out. Though her going right to Caelid is VERY suspect.

Problem it really visibly only affects her. Like I said, her quest is the only one where Radahn blocking the stars is a problem to go further. All the other Demigods are visibly advancing in their plans at different rate (with the exception of Miquella by the time of the game since, well). If they needed the stars to make any meaningful progress, most wouldn't have achieved the state they're at by the time of the game. That, or we assume this was all part of some secret plans established by the Outer Gods. Plus, yes item description is capital, especially in Fromsoftware game where every tiny little detail is rip for important plot part but the description says "if the stars controls our fate", our as in the people who described this item wrote what they believed. Remember than a large majority of people confuse Starbeasts and actual stars because they don't have the necessary knowledge to make the difference unlike Ranni or Sellen. If anything, the item seems to indicate people believe the destiny of everyone is controlled by the stars because ancient sorcerers who studied the stars first like the Carian family have their own fate tied to them (ok, I'm going a little further with this one but it still kind of make sense with what we know).

In any case, I'm still following my ideas about Miquella, Malenia and co but the plot is too (purposefully) dark to have a proper answer. Maybe we'll get something in the upcoming DLC, especially if it's about Miquella

Yeah, the ambiguity of how these different story elements work is really what leaves certain lore points thrown in the wind. Though Seluvis' remark about it leaves me more inclined to believe that the item description is more than just the people talking about individual items. The stars also affecting the Carians may be because the stars and dark moon (which the carians worship) are intertwined. So because of that they believe it affects them personally. All in all it's really difficult to discern what lore makes sense and what doesnt, maybe DLC will expand on it, or not. Who knows.

 

[RinneItachi]

What are the current discussions here, if any? Like, are there any characters who are still up for debate on getting a profile?

If the Outer God's are a topic of discussion still, I would include the Greater Will (under the theory that it is an Outer God which it almost definitely is), and maybe the Frenzied Flame, but the later is iffy. The Frenzied Flame, in regards to the actual being, should scale to the Tarnished as the Lord of Frenzied Flame, who could destroy the world, or at least the Lands Between, pretty easily and quickly. But I guess that's debatable. The Greater Will though has a blatant feat in the Elden Stars incantation and scales above the Elden Beast by default.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Miquella is up for debate. I'd say he shouldn't get one, as he not only is very mysterious as a character overall, let alone his severe lack of feats (only 2 notable ones iirc and nothing for his base stats), but also because we'll probably get a DLC for him anyways. If he did get a page, he'd probably have two keys for his child form and a theoretical (or revealed in the future) adult form. He does have some feats, enough for a real powers and abilities section for sure, but nothing in regards to normal stats, and very little in regards to scaling. If I had to make a list of his known abilities, probably "Longevity, Sleep Manipulation, Creation, Power Nullification, and Social Influencing".

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I also wouldn't be surprised if Miquella is up for debate. I'd say he shouldn't get one, as he not only is very mysterious as a character overall, let alone his severe lack of feats (only 2 notable ones iirc and nothing for his base stats), but also because we'll probably get a DLC for him anyways. If he did get a page, he'd probably have two keys for his child form and a theoretical (or revealed in the future) adult form. He does have some feats, enough for a real powers and abilities section for sure, but nothing in regards to normal stats, and very little in regards to scaling. If I had to make a list of his known abilities, probably "Longevity, Sleep Manipulation, Creation, Power Nullification, and Social Influencing".

Nah. Miquella's lack of feats, our little knowledge of him and the fact he isn't really a combat character means he shouldn't get a profile.

If the Outer God's are a topic of discussion still, I would include the Greater Will (under the theory that it is an Outer God which it almost definitely is), and maybe the Frenzied Flame, but the later is iffy. The Frenzied Flame, in regards to the actual being, should scale to the Tarnished as the Lord of Frenzied Flame, who could destroy the world, or at least the Lands Between, pretty easily and quickly. But I guess that's debatable. The Greater Will though has a blatant feat in the Elden Stars incantation and scales above the Elden Beast by default.

I think some of us wanted to make outer god profile but I ain't sure.

 

[GIANTkitty]

Personally, until we get more info on the outer gods as a whole, I'd be opposed to making profiles for them.

 

[RinneItachi]

Nah. Miquella's lack of feats, our little knowledge of him and the fact he isn't really a combat character means he shouldn't get a profile.


I think some of us wanted to make outer god profile but I ain't sure.

Outer Gods probably deserve a spot on the Elden Ring page. Even if only 2 of them are known. The Greater Will definitely deserves a profile imo, even if an Outer God's section doesn't happen. Not sure what the image would or could be though.

Also worth noting if no one brought it up, seeing as Ranni needs a specific weapon to kill her Two Finger's, it can be presumed that she is weaker than the Two Finger's herself. So the Two Finger's likely scale above Demi-God's.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Outer Gods probably deserve a spot on the Elden Ring page. Even if only 2 of them are known. The Greater Will definitely deserves a profile imo, even if an Outer God's section doesn't happen. Not sure what the image would or could be though.

Also worth noting if no one brought it up, seeing as Ranni needs a specific weapon to kill her Two Finger's, it can be presumed that she is weaker than the Two Finger's herself. So the Two Finger's likely scale above Demi-God's.

Eh? It's likely a hax thing rather than an AP thing.

 

[RinneItachi]

Eh? It's likely a hax thing rather than an AP thing.

Yeah I guess it's a bit of an assumption to believe that it's directly correlated to power. It might just be regen neg or death hax or something. Either way the Two Finger's are otherwise completely featless. Or featless in any way that matters, at least.

Still, I do think the Two Finger's have some degree of real power, not just wisdom. What that power is, we don't really know. A page definitely wouldn't be warranted.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah I guess it's a bit of an assumption to believe that it's directly correlated to power. It might just be regen neg or death hax or something. Either way the Two Finger's are otherwise completely featless. Or featless in any way that matters, at least.

Still, I do think the Two Finger's have some degree of real power, not just wisdom. What that power is, we don't really know. A page definitely wouldn't be warranted.

I mean they were able to **** up Ranni's Doll Body since we see it in tatters when we give her the Ring.

 

[RinneItachi]

So I'd guess that most of the fodder enemies, including the side bosses, and obviously all noteworthy bosses (from bosses like Elemer of the Briar to Elden Beast) will have profiles, and maybe also a few extra characters.

I'm guessing that the Demi-God's will mostly be scaled or downscaled from Radahn, who is 7-A? I'd also propose that Marika have a shared profile with Radagon. Seeing as Radagon is just her other half, and Marika could shatter the Elden Ring, they should be equal in power.

 

[RinneItachi]

I mean they were able to **** up Ranni's Doll Body since we see it in tatters when we give her the Ring.

True, but hard to say if puppet Ranni scales to other Demi-God's just via being one. Her only real feat iirc is, what, instakilling the player via some unknown method? Happens if you attack her 3 times.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So I'd guess that most of the fodder enemies, including the side bosses, and obviously all noteworthy bosses (from bosses like Elemer of the Briar to Elden Beast) will have profiles, and maybe also a few extra characters.

I'm guessing that the Demi-God's will mostly be scaled or downscaled from Radahn, who is 7-A? I'd also propose that Marika have a shared profile with Radagon. Seeing as Radagon is just her other half, and Marika could shatter the Elden Ring, they should be equal in power.

All demigods except Godrick and Current Rennale scaling to 7-A, possibly High 4-C.

Prime Radahn and Malenia scale to At least 7-A, possibly High 4-C

Farum Azula bosses and beyond are still being debated.

 

[RinneItachi]

All demigods except Godrick and Current Rennale scaling to 7-A, possibly High 4-C.

Prime Radahn and Malenia scale to At least 7-A, possibly High 4-C

Farum Azula bosses and beyond are still being debated.

******* Godrick lmao. Literally the weakest Demi-God, barely ever mentioned, humiliated by Malenia and begged for his life pathetically, needed to graft a dragon just to become a threat, protected by Margit, who has a harder fight than Godrick, and who is a weaker manifestation of another Demi-God, and yet this pathetic old dude has the gall to call us a "lowly Tarnished", and saying we're not even fit for making him stronger. He was one of the only Demi-God's I felt happy about killing just because of the character.

Yeah, I figured as much.

So Placidusax, Maliketh, Sir Gideon Ofnir, Godfrey, and Radagon/Elden Beast? I'll give my knowledge on them. I can give links for this stuff but won't for the post cause it's gonna take a while as is.

Placidusax has some arguable scaling but is very lacking. Obviously has longevity large size, flight, teleportation, and lightning manipulation. Also, maybe time manipulation? I'm not sure tbh. His weapon has a description that ends with "This weapon commands great power over the paltry, mortal dragons of today." and also that the weapon is a portion of his power. If his title wasn't enough, this should make it evident that he is superior to any modern dragons. This automatically places him above the dragons we fight, aside from perhaps the ancient dragons such as Fortissax and Greyoll, but he likely scales above them anyways via being the Dragon"lord". Godrick considers some random fodder level dragon to be impressive and maybe even an equal to some extent, only becoming a real threat when taking its power. So if it wasn't obvious, Placidusax is easily stronger than Godrick. And assuming he scales to Fortissax, who downscales from Godwyn (I think, might need to double check on that), then Placidusax should be at least comparable to Godwyn, a full-fledged Demi-God. The description for the Ancient Dragon Smithing Stone says that it is a scale of the Ancient Dragonlord, it also says "The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time. This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god.". So a scale of Placidusax can "slightly twist time", and create a weapon capable of slaying a god. Kind of vague and confusing. Overall, it might be arguable that Placidusax scales to the Demi-God's, so 7-A or At least 7-A.

There's an item called the Blasphemous Claw, which can be acquired by killing Bernahl. Essentially, after Ranni took a fragment of death, she gave Rykard the Blasphemous Claw as a weapon for helping her (which should be mentioned as Optional Equipment on his eventual profile probably). And it reads
"A slab of rock engraved with traces of the Rune of Death. Can deflect the power of the Black Blade. On the night of the dire plot, Ranni rewarded Praetor Rykard with these traces. Should the coming trespass one day transpire, they would serve as a last-resort foil, allowing Rykard to challenge Maliketh the Black Blade, the black beast of Destined Death." This is direct confirmation that Rykard is weaker than Maliketh by himself, as he needs the Blasphemous Claw just as a last resort method of battling him. And besides that, Maliketh's armor set says "there was not one demigod who did not fear him". So Maliketh scales above the Demi-God's. We also know that Maliketh defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen, who is said to "have been said" to be an Empyrean. Malenia is an Empyrean, Miquella is an Empyrean (which is why Mohg wants to become his consort), and Ranni is also an Empyrean. Basically, the Empyreans have the potential to become a successor to Queen Marika and contain the Elden Ring, which is what happens in the Age of the Stars ending and what some speculate could happen in a future Miquella-related DLC. Essentially, Empyreans can become true gods. In other words, Maliketh defeated someone who could eventually become the ruler/god of the Lands Between and hold equal power to Marika. It is also said that the black flame could "once slay gods", but due to Maliketh sealing the black flame, its true power was lost. To be honest, Maliketh might need 2 keys. So Maliketh has death manipulation, or limited death manipulation in regards to in-game Maliketh, flame manipulation, longevity, earth manipulation (Beast Clergyman's incantations), and scales above at least the Demi-God's.

Gideon can utilize powers of Demi-God's, including Mohg, Rykard, and Malenia. His abilities would include magic, limited causality manipulation, and all of the abilities in the spells/incantations he can use. Gideon also believes he can beat you while knowing that you've killed various Demi-God's canonically. Considering that he is a genius, and that the description of his armor says "Knowledge begins with the recognition of ones own ignorance", I highly doubt it was just ego. Gideon is very likely just Demi-God level.

Godfrey obviously scales to Demi-God's via his role in the game and being the first Elden Lord, not to mention he was admired by Radahn. Not to mention himn being the Elden Lord means he was the strongest guy back then. After all, a crown is warranted with strength, at least in those days.

Radagon/Elden Beast should have obvious scaling. Radagon scales to Marika, was a rival to prime Rennala, and should scale above the Demi-God's, as well as Gideon who believed it was impossible for a human to defeat Marika/Radagon. Elden Beast scales above Radagon, and embodies the Elden Ring which is stated to command the stars. Although I don't think the dimension that the fight takes place in is something Elden Beast inherently created, that's a bit of a leap and lacks evidence.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

******* Godrick lmao. Literally the weakest Demi-God, barely ever mentioned, humiliated by Malenia and begged for his life pathetically, needed to graft a dragon just to become a threat, protected by Margit, who has a harder fight than Godrick, and who is a weaker manifestation of another Demi-God, and yet this pathetic old dude has the gall to call us a "lowly Tarnished", and saying we're not even fit for making him stronger. He was one of the only Demi-God's I felt happy about killing just because of the character.

Yeah, I figured as much.

He's such a try hard to the point it's funny. The dragon he calls a "true dragon" is part of the inferior descendants of the true dragons. And his cape is one of the ******* banners his castle. Dude even dressed like a woman to hide from Radahn

So Placidusax, Maliketh, Sir Gideon Ofnir, Godfrey, and Radagon/Elden Beast? I'll give my knowledge on them. I can give links for this stuff but won't for the post cause it's gonna take a while as is.

Placidusax has some arguable scaling but is very lacking. Obviously has longevity large size, flight, teleportation, and lightning manipulation. Also, maybe time manipulation? I'm not sure tbh. His weapon has a description that ends with "This weapon commands great power over the paltry, mortal dragons of today." and also that the weapon is a portion of his power. If his title wasn't enough, this should make it evident that he is superior to any modern dragons. This automatically places him above the dragons we fight, aside from perhaps the ancient dragons such as Fortissax and Greyoll, but he likely scales above them anyways via being the Dragon"lord". Godrick considers some random fodder level dragon to be impressive and maybe even an equal to some extent, only becoming a real threat when taking its power. So if it wasn't obvious, Placidusax is easily stronger than Godrick. And assuming he scales to Fortissax, who downscales from Godwyn (I think, might need to double check on that), then Placidusax should be at least comparable to Godwyn, a full-fledged Demi-God. The description for the Ancient Dragon Smithing Stone says that it is a scale of the Ancient Dragonlord, it also says "The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time. This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god.". So a scale of Placidusax can "slightly twist time", and create a weapon capable of slaying a god. Kind of vague and confusing. Overall, it might be arguable that Placidusax scales to the Demi-God's, so 7-A or At least 7-A.

This isn't too hard tbh. Placidusaxx is a boss that fights the farum azula veison of you, so easily scales to the Tarnished. So at the very least it's "At least 7-A, possibly High 4-C"

Currently, Farum Azula to Engame Tarnished would probably end up as At least 7-A, possibly 4-A if that Elden Beast's starry sky feat is accepted. We're currently discussing the feat.

Tho ngl, even if possibly 4-A gets accepted, I ain't the biggest fan of scaling the other characters to what is essentially the god tier of the whole game.

Gideon can utilize powers of Demi-God's, including Mohg, Rykard, and Malenia. His abilities would include magic, limited causality manipulation, and all of the abilities in the spells/incantations he can use. Gideon also believes he can beat you while knowing that you've killed various Demi-God's canonically. Considering that he is a genius, and that the description of his armor says "Knowledge begins with the recognition of ones own ignorance", I highly doubt it was just ego. Gideon is very likely just Demi-God level.

Gideon is a bit wack ngl, considering his power only depends on how many demigods you've faced and his health bar is actually laughable, even when compared to weaker bosses. I beat him with little effort in all my playthroughs in one go.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I think some of us wanted to make outer god profile but I ain't sure.

The Greater Will probably could have something but the others have almost nothing unfortunately

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Eh? It's likely a hax thing rather than an AP thing.

AP could still be "at least High 4-C" since the Elden Beast would be High 4-C

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Gideon is a bit wack ngl, considering his power only depends on how many demigods you've faced and his health bar is actually laughable, even when compared to weaker bosses. I beat him with little effort in all my playthroughs in one go.

He would still be endgame level honestly, he can still harm and kill the Tarnished right before they're going for Godfrey, the fact that he's unfortunately) super easy as a boss in terms of gameplay shouldn't be counted unless there's something that clearly says it's an indication of his power in the lore

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

He would still be endgame level honestly, he can still harm and kill the Tarnished right before they're going for Godfrey, the fact that he's unfortunately) super easy as a boss in terms of gameplay shouldn't be counted unless there's something that clearly says it's an indication of his power in the lore

Isn't most of shit spells and incantations rather than physical attacks? I forgot the fight.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

True, but hard to say if puppet Ranni scales to other Demi-God's just via being one. Her only real feat iirc is, what, instakilling the player via some unknown method? Happens if you attack her 3 times.

She was still capable of fighting and killing them and while she had the Fingerslayer Blade, she had to be strong and fast enough to keep up with them so doll body or not, it's still an impressive feat

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Isn't most of shit spells and incantations rather than physical attacks? I forgot the fight.

It's a strict sorcerer boss battle if I remember correctly (I'm doing another playthrough right now with an Odin build, I'm going for Morgott) but since he's a Tarnished himself, he's still superhuman physically and he's at least durable and fast enough to take hits from the Tarnished in the story

 

[ArkhamDC06]

******* Godrick lmao. Literally the weakest Demi-God, barely ever mentioned, humiliated by Malenia and begged for his life pathetically, needed to graft a dragon just to become a threat, protected by Margit, who has a harder fight than Godrick, and who is a weaker manifestation of another Demi-God, and yet this pathetic old dude has the gall to call us a "lowly Tarnished", and saying we're not even fit for making him stronger. He was one of the only Demi-God's I felt happy about killing just because of the character.

I didn't care about Godrick honestly, the guy is so pathetic he doesn't deserve more attention than "he's a boss so I need to beat him". The ones I consider straight-up evil personally are the Dung Eater, Seluvis and Mohg and for me, Mohg is more evil than the others (at least Seluvis is "limited" in his ambitions and shows genuine interest and affection for his puppets and the Dung Eater thinks he's somehow doing something beneficial for people, Mohg is just a ****** who enjoys spreading death and misery and wants power to the point he raped his own nephew). Which is ironic considering Mohg is one of my favorite characters in the game

Placidusax has some arguable scaling but is very lacking. Obviously has longevity large size, flight, teleportation, and lightning manipulation. Also, maybe time manipulation? I'm not sure tbh. His weapon has a description that ends with "This weapon commands great power over the paltry, mortal dragons of today." and also that the weapon is a portion of his power. If his title wasn't enough, this should make it evident that he is superior to any modern dragons. This automatically places him above the dragons we fight, aside from perhaps the ancient dragons such as Fortissax and Greyoll, but he likely scales above them anyways via being the Dragon"lord". Godrick considers some random fodder level dragon to be impressive and maybe even an equal to some extent, only becoming a real threat when taking its power. So if it wasn't obvious, Placidusax is easily stronger than Godrick. And assuming he scales to Fortissax, who downscales from Godwyn (I think, might need to double check on that), then Placidusax should be at least comparable to Godwyn, a full-fledged Demi-God. The description for the Ancient Dragon Smithing Stone says that it is a scale of the Ancient Dragonlord, it also says "The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time. This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god.". So a scale of Placidusax can "slightly twist time", and create a weapon capable of slaying a god. Kind of vague and confusing. Overall, it might be arguable that Placidusax scales to the Demi-God's, so 7-A or At least 7-A.

There's an item called the Blasphemous Claw, which can be acquired by killing Bernahl. Essentially, after Ranni took a fragment of death, she gave Rykard the Blasphemous Claw as a weapon for helping her (which should be mentioned as Optional Equipment on his eventual profile probably). And it reads
"A slab of rock engraved with traces of the Rune of Death. Can deflect the power of the Black Blade. On the night of the dire plot, Ranni rewarded Praetor Rykard with these traces. Should the coming trespass one day transpire, they would serve as a last-resort foil, allowing Rykard to challenge Maliketh the Black Blade, the black beast of Destined Death." This is direct confirmation that Rykard is weaker than Maliketh by himself, as he needs the Blasphemous Claw just as a last resort method of battling him. And besides that, Maliketh's armor set says "there was not one demigod who did not fear him". So Maliketh scales above the Demi-God's. We also know that Maliketh defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen, who is said to "have been said" to be an Empyrean. Malenia is an Empyrean, Miquella is an Empyrean (which is why Mohg wants to become his consort), and Ranni is also an Empyrean. Basically, the Empyreans have the potential to become a successor to Queen Marika and contain the Elden Ring, which is what happens in the Age of the Stars ending and what some speculate could happen in a future Miquella-related DLC. Essentially, Empyreans can become true gods. In other words, Maliketh defeated someone who could eventually become the ruler/god of the Lands Between and hold equal power to Marika. It is also said that the black flame could "once slay gods", but due to Maliketh sealing the black flame, its true power was lost. To be honest, Maliketh might need 2 keys. So Maliketh has death manipulation, or limited death manipulation in regards to in-game Maliketh, flame manipulation, longevity, earth manipulation (Beast Clergyman's incantations), and scales above at least the Demi-God's.

Maliketh should be above the demigods anyway. Even without Destined Death he was able to fight and kill the Gloamed-Eye Queen. As for the two keys, I simply think he should get one for his game version and his prime version, cause he's really not at his prime in the game.

Gideon can utilize powers of Demi-God's, including Mohg, Rykard, and Malenia. His abilities would include magic, limited causality manipulation, and all of the abilities in the spells/incantations he can use. Gideon also believes he can beat you while knowing that you've killed various Demi-God's canonically. Considering that he is a genius, and that the description of his armor says "Knowledge begins with the recognition of ones own ignorance", I highly doubt it was just ego. Gideon is very likely just Demi-God level.

Gideon's profile is there if you want to check

Sir Gideon Ofnir

Sir Gideon Ofnir is an NPC and major supporting character in Elden Ring. Gideon Ofnir is the leader of Roundtable Hold and a profound source of knowledge. He can be found most commonly at his office, absorbed by an endless amount of books. The leader of the Roundtable Hold, he leads the other...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Gideon's profile is there if you want to check

Sir Gideon Ofnir

Sir Gideon Ofnir is an NPC and major supporting character in Elden Ring. Gideon Ofnir is the leader of Roundtable Hold and a profound source of knowledge. He can be found most commonly at his office, absorbed by an endless amount of books. The leader of the Roundtable Hold, he leads the other...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Gideon should get "At least" since that's what Malenia is also getting

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I guess since he can fight Endgame Tarnished

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Could we get High Hypersonic+ to MHS via dodging meteorites from Astel? Credit to Charoit and Chiirin on Discord for this.

Astel has moves that opens portals into space and has meteorites fly through. Meteorites in a vacuum move at like 70000mph. which is precisely what's happening with Astel, he's skipping the middle man of re-entry or pulling them down and just portaling them at the source to slam you so they dont get effected by drag and what not.

Comet Azur says:


Comets move anywhere from 2,000-100,000mph

Also Founding rain of stars is interesting and may yield something but idk

Bumping this because people ignored it

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

SirOvens said I could make the profile for my sleep paralysis demon so I made a rough draft of it. I'll add more stuff to it later on, like scans and such. I think we should at least give the most iconic Elden Ring character her profile.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

we should at least give the most iconic Elden Ring character her profile.

DEFINITELY (plus considering your work on Radahn, I can't wait to see what you'll do with Malenia)

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Now that I think about it, is it worth mentionning the humiliated Godrick part? Godrick is so weak acknowledging his defeat at her hands like a significant accomplishment feels...weird

 

[ArkhamDC06]

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Now that I think about it, is it worth mentionning the humiliated Godrick part? Godrick is wo weak acknowledging his defeat at her hands like a significant accomplishment feels...weird

Maybe not. But might as well throw it in there. Gorick deserves the humiliation kek

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Maybe not. But might as well throw it in there. Gorick deserves the humiliation kek

True