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Elden Ring Profiles

I'm with Paul on the matter. Just because we see the effects of one fallingstar, it does not mean every light in the sky is similar.

Why do we assume Radahn holds back exclusively meteors or stars and not a combination of both? Would it not make more sense that he just arrests the movement of celestial objects in general since they not only halt the fate of his siblings (and have something to do with the Moon Outer God) but also stop fallingstar beasts from touching grass?
 
Paul_Frank said:
I mean, you can also dodge them last second instead of getting out of the way by aimdodging, and this can be done mid combat with a large group, which likely means you're not focusing on the golem since you have to focus on not being smacked too, and just dodge the arrow as you see it coming

I'd personally just use Radahn's stuff though as said if someone wants to calc it, because it's visibly much faster than other arrows, and homes in so you can't aimdodge even if you want, you have to dodge last second. But in lieu of that, the golem one seems fine still, not really reliant on aimdodging when you can still dodge it if you notice it was fired while you're already busy doing something else and not focused on the golem's aim before it shot.
Click to expand...
Yes, but this can be done by timing up the attack specially when you see it beforehand, giving you prior-knowledge of is mechanics, a skilled player can potentially get away from the line without focusing directly on the golem.

Radahn's arrows are the same, just that he fires them from a much longer distance (Aka you have more time to react) and while they aren't complety linear, they don't home you like soul arrows, instead making a wide curve that you can still avoid from the same means as the golem arrows.
 
Newendigo said:
Yes, but this can be done by timing up the attack specially when you see it beforehand, giving you prior-knowledge of is mechanics, a skilled player can potentially get away from the line without focusing directly on the golem.
Click to expand...
That's more getting into game mechanics at this point "A good player can keep track of all enemy attack timings" doesn't really seem fair when it's not like the player character in universe would be assuming enemies have set, coded attack patterns and that an arrow would fire at exactly X moment while dealing with others, especially if that enemy hasn't entered their line of sight because they were focused on another opponent or something.
Newendigo said:
Radahn's arrows are the same, just that he fires them from a much longer distance (Aka you have more time to react) and while they aren't complety linear, they don't home you like soul arrows, instead making a wide curve that you can still avoid from the same means as the golem arrows.
Click to expand...
This is untrue, Radahn's arrows do home, pretty hard
Hard enough that it's like, literally impossible to just continue running to avoid them, you have to dodge them or get behind cover.
 
Paul_Frank said:
Tier 4 is accepted as a possibly, by the majority consensus of the thread and off the thread too, unanimous agreement isn't needed for consensus.

If Armor's proposal is solid enough to kill tier 4 and is seen as reasonable and doesn't require a bunch of unfounded assumptions, such as "they're small stars like in myths where it's just glowy lights and not real stars", then he can make a downgrade thread or whatever in the future and it'll pass

The stuff against tier 4 has been addressed multiple times, and resulted in the possibly rating being the most accepted, if you personally don't like what has been said in response, that doesn't mean others haven't accepted it

As for Japanese translations, the only relevant one is Ranni's dialogue which everyone can find with a Google search, and I've posted earlier along with the JP text, if you mean item descriptions, from people who have seen the JP descriptions, you're not getting anything out of it that we don't already have
Click to expand...
I admit I could agree with a possibly, though the consensus requires a staff consensus, which I would argue we don't actually have, lad.

We don't need a downgrade thread if we haven't agreed to begin with.

Dude, I was the one that accepted possibly, but the whole discussion was sidelined by "we'll just wait for Japanese text". What do you even mean.

I have no idea what I'm supposed to mean. We were debating, and then people said we should wait for Japanese text, because they thought it would save Tier 4.

So no, I would argue Tier 4 is still up in the air, even if I personally agree to a possibly rating based solely on the trailer dialogue about the Elden Ring governing the stars, even though that's A. vague B. in the trailer only, another tenuous area. Nothing is set in stone, I don't understand why we're pretending it is.
 
Paul_Frank said:
I mean, you can also dodge them last second instead of getting out of the way by aimdodging, and this can be done mid combat with a large group, which likely means you're not focusing on the golem since you have to focus on not being smacked too, and just dodge the arrow as you see it coming

I'd personally just use Radahn's stuff though as said if someone wants to calc it, because it's visibly much faster than other arrows, and homes in so you can't aimdodge even if you want, you have to dodge last second. But in lieu of that, the golem one seems fine still, not really reliant on aimdodging when you can still dodge it if you notice it was fired while you're already busy doing something else and not focused on the golem's aim before it shot.
Click to expand...
I agree the arrows should be basically fine, if done correctly. Though Radahn's arrows might not produce the sonic boom the golem's arrows supposedly did, which would mean, most likely, we'll have to just say they're faster than golem arrows and upscale.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Eh, I did a basic one anyways

So completely ignoring the fins and the arrow head, the shaft has the following stats
  • 1.7538672067039107 * (683 / 571) = 2.09788319120625395464 meters
  • 2.09788319120625395464 * (1169 / 287) = 8.54503641296 meters
  • 1.7538672067039107 * (55 / 425) = 0.226971 meters
  • Volume = π * r^2* h
  • Volume = π * 0.1134855^2* 8.54503641296
  • Volume = 0.34573595077267 m^3
  • idk, using granite or something
  • 2,700 kg * 0.34573595077267 m^3 = 933.4870670862 kilograms / meters^3
  • F = M*A
  • F = 933.4870670862 * 343
  • F = 320,186.06401057 Newtons (Class 50)
If that looks vaguely good (it is a lowball though), someone can just copy paste it to a blog or something and make everyone "At least Class 50" for scaling to the Tarnished who can block hits from the Golems or something.
Click to expand...
This looks fine (sorry for multi-posting btw, my ass is seeing random developments all over and trying to give a different response to each). You probably should make the blog for credit reasons.
 
Paul_Frank said:
That's more getting into game mechanics at this point "A good player can keep track of all enemy attack timings" doesn't really seem fair when it's not like the player character in universe would be assuming enemies have set, coded attack patterns and that an arrow would fire at exactly X moment while dealing with others, especially if that enemy hasn't entered their line of sight because they were focused on another opponent or something.
Click to expand...
I mean, if you are going to bring up what the main character does and knows in universe, then everything is an assumption, like why them simply timing up attacks to dodge them is less likely than them dodging them last second with super reaction speed? You don't need the crap gamer stuff for the latter.

"But they could be focusing on a group of enemies while still perfectly dodging a golem's arrow from behind" also just comes off as a extremely random scenario, not something that solidly happens in universe.

This is untrue, Radahn's arrows do home, pretty hard
Hard enough that it's like, literally impossible to just continue running to avoid them, you have to dodge them or get behind cover.
Click to expand...
Nah, they don't home hard like the soul arrows, they slighty move on to your general direction but don't track you endlessly, what is hard is the speed.

But with Radahn's long wind up and the distance between you and him, you can still apply the same wait-and-move strategy with the golems, or anyone in general.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I admit I could agree with a possibly, though the consensus requires a staff consensus, which I would argue we don't actually have, lad.
Click to expand...
It doesn't need a unanimous staff consensus and we have two administrators and a discussion mod who have agreed with tier 4 counting at least as a possibly, thay seems like a staff consensus to me.
Mr._Bambu said:
Dude, I was the one that accepted possibly, but the whole discussion was sidelined by "we'll just wait for Japanese text". What do you even mean.
I have no idea what I'm supposed to mean. We were debating, and then people said we should wait for Japanese text, because they thought it would save Tier 4.
Click to expand...
My response was mostly to the other guy not you, since he was, at the time of my writing that comment, opposing the possibly rating as well, which seems to have changed. The Japanese text for Ranni's has been posted as i said, as for other Japanese texts, I doubt they're either A. coming, or B. going to change anything, going off what I've been told by people who read the Japanese descriptions
Mr._Bambu said:
So no, I would argue Tier 4 is still up in the air, even if I personally agree to a possibly rating based solely on the trailer dialogue about the Elden Ring governing the stars, even though that's A. vague B. in the trailer only, another tenuous area. Nothing is set in stone, I don't understand why we're pretending it is.
Click to expand...
Because as I said, most people have agreed to at least a possibly, there's no pretending there, thats just the case, with the above few comments showing that there's a good amount that also believe the evidence is clear cut enough for a solid rating rather than just possibly.

What I've been saying is that since most people agree to possibly, it doesn't matter if one or two people think it doesn't even fit a possibly, especially if their reasoning is addressed and they just didn't personally like the responses given.

Newendigo said:
I mean, if you are going to bring up what the main player does and knows in universe, then everything is an assumption, like why them simply timing up attacks to dodge them is less likely than them dodging them last second with super reaction times? You don't need the crap gamer stuff for that.

"But they could be focusing on a group of enemies while still perfectly dodging a golem's arrow from behind" also just comes off as a extremely random scenario, not something that solidly happens in universe.
Click to expand...
The fact is that its not really a super random scenario its a plausible one given where these enemies are placed at times, take for instance any of the fights where there's one or more archer golems in the back and you're stuck fighting others, it seems a lot less likely to assume that the Tarnished just knows by heart the exact timing the golem will fire the arrow and aim dodges it while they're out of sight, behind, etc, rather than them simply dodging it because they reacted mid combat
Newendigo said:
Nah, they don't home hard like the soul arrows, they slighty move on to your general direction but don't track you endlessly, what is hard is the speed.

But with Radahn's long wind up and the distance between you and him, you can still apply the same wait-and-move strategy with the golems, or anyone in general.
Click to expand...
But no, no you can't. You quite literally can't wait and move, because it will home in on you and hit, you have to dodge right as the arrow is about to hit you like in the video you linked there, otherwise you get hit.

You try to wait until it's fired and strafe, you get hit, you run on torrent out of the supposed line of fire, you'd get hit, you roll too early you get hit, you start strafing in advanced you get hit, etc. The fact you have to wait until it's close range to dodge is pretty evident proof that we're able to react to the arrow mid flight as we well, have to do that to dodge it thanks to the speed and homing. Sure it doesn't turn like 180 degrees when you dodge it, but it homes enough that the idea of simply aim dodging or leaving the linear path of the shot doesn't really work.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
This looks fine (sorry for multi-posting btw, my ass is seeing random developments all over and trying to give a different response to each). You probably should make the blog for credit reasons.
Click to expand...
I made the blog

So using Arkham's sandboxes here's my suggestion of how I think the tiers should work
Profile
Attack Potency: Moon level (Destroyed Nokstella's moon when he raised their cities to the ground, to the point it caused an apocalyptic rain of meteors), possibly Large Star level (Fought after Radahn, who held the stars in place with gravity magic)

Speed: At least transonic (Superior to an early Tarnished who can avoid arrows fired fast enough to make a sonic boom) or High Hypersonic (Battled after Radahn, who the Tarnished can dodge or react to his atmospheric impact)

Lifting Strength: At least Class 50 (Superior to Golems who can fire arrows with this much force)
Click to expand...
 
Profile
Attack Potency: Moon level (Destroyed Nokstella's moon when he raised their cities to the ground, to the point it caused an apocalyptic rain of meteors), possibly Large Star level (Fought after Radahn, who held the stars in place with gravity magic)

Speed: At least transonic (Superior to an early Tarnished who can avoid arrows fired fast enough to make a sonic boom) or High Hypersonic (Battled after Radahn, who the Tarnished can dodge or react to his atmospheric impact)

Lifting Strength: At least Class 50 (Superior to Golems who can fire arrows with this much force)
Click to expand...
I agree with most of this, except the large star level part, but wait a minute, should it be higher? actually never mind.
 
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How much would Astel weigh? I'm asking considering Radahn used his gravity magic to hold astel in place.

This is for Radahn's LS with gravity magic.
 
As far as we know, the Astels are an evolution of sorts to the Fallingstar Beasts

So assuming he was holding the Fallingstar beasts in place along with everything else, then he'd have been holding some probably yeah, although you wouldn't get much more for his LS than just holding the stars in the first place
 
RH0904 said:
I agree with most of this, except the large star level part, but wait a minu
Click to expand...
Even if Radahn held every single star in the universe still at once, the feat would only be 4-A. To get 4-B he would have to hold over 4,000 stars at once and even if my count was off by a factor of 5 that wouldn't be enough to get him into 4-B.
Ellbekarym said:
even more so if the moon is (the form of) an Outer God.
Click to expand...
I only think Ranni's moon is the Outer God. There's two moon's normally in the Lands Between and she even put her shard on one of them.
Emirp sumitpo said:
Wasn't he one of the creature that Radahn was holding back?
Click to expand...
Radahn was holding back the starbeasts which eventually evolve into Astel given enough time.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Even if Radahn held every single star in the universe still at once, the feat would only be 4-A. To get 4-B he would have to hold over 4,000 stars at once and even if my count was off by a factor of 5 that wouldn't be enough to get him into 4-B.
Click to expand...
i did the calculations and yeah you're right and here's the calc: 641 x 5 = 3,205 stars
 
Ellbekarym said:
As I said, I don't agree with Astel 5-C.

First, where does the "rise to the ground" come from?
Click to expand...
From the meteorite of Astel saying he leveled it
Ellbekarym said:
Second, still no evidence that Astel actually destroyed the moon, even more so if the moon is (the form of) an Outer God.
Click to expand...
There is though, it's just not a statement directly saying "he destroyed the moon guys"

But we can infer that given the lines about him taking away the sky, which based on other descriptions led to the moon being "lost", and this is shown via the memory stone fragments as meaning it was destroyed and fragmented.

I doubt the moon that was destroyed is an Outer God, as even though there is a dark moon outer god in theory, we know Outer Gods can't really appear in the Lands Between or do stuff there (that's a major part of their lore and motivations) even. So there's no way the moon of Nokstella, which was a physical thing given the fact it was fragmented, was the Outer God or something on its level
 
Last edited:
Even if the moon is an outer god, that wouldn't matter, all that would mean is he destroyed the physical avatar of a outer god who's physical body is that of a moon, aka nothing changes, there's just extra fluff to it but doesn't effect the actual feat or ap derived from it.
And I guess the outer god would have res, regen, multiple bodies, or some shit, doesn't change the fact we know Astel busted a moon tho given the existence of fragments of it.
 
Paul_Frank said:
From the meteorite of Astel saying he leveled it
Click to expand...

Yes I know, I thought there was another source. In this case, I would interpret "leveled" as meaning "razed" or "destroyed". Otherwise that would mean that the City would have been raised and then reburied. Or buried, raised and then reburied if it was built on the surface.

Paul_Frank said:
There is though, it's just not a statement directly saying "he destroyed the moon guys"

But we can infer that given the lines about him taking away the sky, which based on other descriptions led to the moon being "lost", and this is shown via the memory stone fragments as meaning it was destroyed and fragmented.
Click to expand...

I have already developed why I think this destruction is unlikely. Besides the fact that there is no direct mention.

If the Moon of Nokstella was a physical moon that orbited the Lands Between, and it had been destroyed :

  • There would be more talk about it, and not only about the Eternal Cities. But it seems to matter only for the Eternal Cities.
  • It would have caused a much more widespread destruction.
  • Fragments of this Moon would be found everywhere and not in the form of rare artifacts.
  • This prohibits any identification with an Outer God/Sent from an Outer God (similar to the Elden Beast), except to assume that Astel is much more powerful than it lets on.

However, I find the identification very likely. We have two moons and we also know that Rennala and Ranni each draw their magic from a moon. With the deep connection between the Outer Gods and the Sky, the identification is not far-fetched. Especially since there is a strong connection between Ranni and the Eternal Cities.

By the way, this is a digression but how do you plan to treat the second Astel (thing of darkness)? Another entity? The same one? A pure gameplay invention? I would lean towards the latter.

Paul_Frank said:
I doubt the moon that was destroyed is an Outer God, as even though there is a dark moon outer god in theory, we know Outer Gods can't really appear in the Lands Between or do stuff there (that's a major part of their lore and motivations) even. So there's no way the moon of Nokstella, which was a physical thing given the fact it was fragmented, was the Outer God or something on its level
Click to expand...

I think that the Moon is an Outer God/the Form of an Outer God/something related to an Outer God, and therefore I don't think that Astel destroyed it. That we can see the moons in the sky does not contradict the fact that the Outer Gods have a limited influence on the Earth. There is the fact that the Moon was fragmented. The Elden Ring has also been fragmented. However, it is not a (purely) physical object and was not destroyed in the process. We find here and there fragments of the Elden Ring, treated as physical or semi-physical objects (Rune Arcs). I think that these fragments must be seen as fragments of the Moon of Nokstella (=Black Moon of Ranni), in the same way that the Rune Arc are fragments of the Elden Ring. Moreover, we notice that these fragments are often found in towers similar to the one where Ranni is staying.

Even if the moon is an outer god, that wouldn't matter, all that would mean is he destroyed the physical avatar of a outer god who's physical body is that of a moon, aka nothing changes, there's just extra fluff to it but doesn't effect the actual feat or ap derived from it.
And I guess the outer god would have res, regen, multiple bodies, or some shit, doesn't change the fact we know Astel busted a moon tho given the existence of fragments of it.
Click to expand...

The argument is precisely that if the moon is an Outer God or the like, then one must reject that Astel destroyed it.
 
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Ellbekarym said:
The argument is precisely that if the moon is an Outer God or the like, then one must reject that Astel destroyed it.
Click to expand...
"then one must reject".
Lol what, no? That isn't how it works. Whether it is, or isn't, we know for a fact the black moon of nok was destroyed, this isn't up for debate, if the moon is an outer god, then yes, the physical form of that god was destroyed, that's all there is to it, why? Because we're flat out told it was fragmented, in the item description of the very shards that came from the broken moon.

The argument doesn't work because you'd have to just ignore the fact that moon was, in fact, destroyed. The fact that Astel did comes from other sources, but all the same, moon went bye bye.

That's assuming if it even IS a outer god, it might not be.
 
Ellbekarym said:
Yes I know, I thought there was another source. In this case, I would interpret "leveled" as meaning "razed" or "destroyed". Otherwise that would mean that the City would have been raised and then reburied. Or buried, raised and then reburied if it was built on the surface.
Click to expand...
That's what they meant on the profile, razed not raised, I assume at least, because of the event they're referring to
Ellbekarym said:
I have already developed why I think this destruction is unlikely. Besides the fact that there is no direct mention.

If the Moon of Nokstella was a physical moon that orbited the Lands Between, and it had been destroyed :

  • There would be more talk about it, and not only about the Eternal Cities. But it seems to matter only for the Eternal Cities.
Click to expand...
These events happened a very long time in the past as far as we know, people in the Lands between that we meet just overall don't talk about much pre shattering. The Eternal Cities themselves aren't even really mentioned either, nor are any of the major wars, Farum Azula, etc, all these things have at best, like one or two people who talk to you about them, oftentimes none and it's just descriptions
Ellbekarym said:
  • It would have caused a much more widespread destruction.
Click to expand...
We don't exactly know how much destruction was caused, again, way in the past and no one talks about almost anything historic, all we know is it did cause destruction.
Ellbekarym said:
  • Fragments of this Moon would be found everywhere and not in the form of rare artifacts.
Click to expand...
Memory stones are found in a decent amount of places, widespread ones too. However yet again we have the issue of how long ago this happened, people aren't just going to leave fragments of space stuff lying around, especially when we know there are people who even actively go to and scavenge any meteor crashes in the Lands Between, there aren't fragments because over time, people aren't going to just leave those everywhere, especially when they're made into stuff as useful as memory stones
Ellbekarym said:
  • This prohibits any identification with an Outer God/Sent from an Outer God (similar to the Elden Beast), except to assume that Astel is much more powerful than it lets on.
Click to expand...
Even if it was sent from an Outer God, that wouldn't really change the fact that it's, well, a moon. Like, unless you assume it was the Outer God itself which is impossible as we know, it's a moon still based on everything we know if it.
Ellbekarym said:
However, I find the identification very likely. We have two moons and we also know that Rennala and Ranni each draw their magic from a moon. With the deep connection between the Outer Gods and the Sky, the identification is not far-fetched. Especially since there is a strong connection between Ranni and the Eternal Cities.
Click to expand...
See above, even if it's connected, there's no way it's the actual god, and everything says it's a moon
Ellbekarym said:
By the way, this is a digression but how do you plan to treat the second Astel (thing of darkness)? Another entity? The same one? A pure gameplay invention? I would lean towards the latter.
Click to expand...
Another entity probably, Astel doesn't seem to be a one of a kind thing, a lot of stuff points to Astel being a member of a group of evolved Fallingstar beasts, which explains the existence of a second one
Ellbekarym said:
I think that the Moon is an Outer God/the Form of an Outer God/something related to an Outer God, and therefore I don't think that Astel destroyed it. That we can see the moons in the sky does not contradict the fact that the Outer Gods have a limited influence on the Earth. There is the fact that the Moon was fragmented. The Elden Ring has also been fragmented. However, it is not a (purely) physical object and was not destroyed in the process. We find here and there fragments of the Elden Ring, treated as physical or semi-physical objects (Rune Arcs). I think that these fragments must be seen as fragments of the Moon of Nokstella (=Black Moon of Ranni), in the same way that the Rune Arc are fragments of the Elden Ring. Moreover, we notice that these fragments are often found in towers similar to the one where Ranni is staying.
Click to expand...
This is a really weird assumption. "The Moon must be related to the Outer god so the Moon itself must have been like the Elden Ring and so it doesn't count"

There's just not really anything supporting that assumption. The Elden Ring being shattered resulted in the fragments of it bring spread and inherited, while Marika kept the majority of it/main part within herself, but this isn't really implied to at all be like the moon situation. The Elden Ring is a creature sent by an Outer God to help enforce its will on the lands yeah, but all we have on this moon is that it's a dark moon, there's a dark moon that's possibly an Outer God, and that the Nokstella moon was destroyed and fragmented, which kinda shows it was a physical moon.

The memory stones aren't weird items like rune arcs, which aren't entirely physical, they're literally rocks in a necklace.
Ellbekarym said:
The argument is precisely that if the moon is an Outer God or the like, then one must reject that Astel destroyed it.
Click to expand...
If you think the moon is the actual outer god, then sure, however everything points to that not being the case, ranging from the fact that if it was the Outer God, it couldn't appear there, to the fact it was objectively destroyed based on descriptions.

If it was just something sent by an Outer God that wouldn't really change the fact its a moon anyway
 
wait, can someone compare the nighttime sky before and after the death of Radahn because we see very few visible stars in the sky at night and why? Because he fought with the stars and it is implied he is repulsing the light of distant stars, even when he has scarlet rot affecting him. man, radahn is a powerhouse.
 
RH0904 said:
wait, can someone compare the nighttime sky before and after the death of Radahn because we see very few visible stars in the sky at night and why? Because he fought with the stars and it is implied he is repulsing the light of distant stars, even when he has scarlet rot affecting him. man, radahn is a powerhouse.
Click to expand...
The nightsky itself in the rest of the game doesn't change afaik. However in the cutscene after his death, we see the stars start to glow brighter in the sky, they're dim, then as everything starts moving again, they glow more and I think we see more
 
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