DxD 2-A Cosmology Upgrade CRT

[MasqueTLDF]

Don't bring up verses and cosmologies you don't understand, the rating is not even a solid one, and it is clear you don't understand how it was given or how it works.

Again, I'm not the one who brought Tensura up. Please calm down and behave in a kind way.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

I wanted to make him understand that he doesn't understand the example but as a "know-it-all" he wanted to show the opposite.

I really don't appreciate insults, can we all behave in a dignified manner please?

 

[Digital_Franz]

I really don't appreciate insults, can we all behave in a dignified manner please?

I didn't insult anyone, I just told the truth. However, if you felt insulted then I apologize.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

I didn't insult anyone, I just told the truth. However, if you felt insulted then I apologize.

I mean, "Know it all" is literally an insult but thanks for the apology i guess

 

[MasqueTLDF]

I mean, "Know it all" is literally an insult but thanks for the apology i guess

And if it isn't an insult then it would be an admittance that I'm correct as I'd be Omniscient.

 

[Mizuki67]

There already has been a lot of discussion, at least relative to the verse size. Still a 2-A rating.

well if what you are saying applies to the verse, then I dont think I have any problems with it. However, idk what other staffs think

 

[MasqueTLDF]

well if what you are saying applies to the verse, then I dont think I have any problems with it. However, idk what other staffs think

I just don't get why others had to escalate this from a discussion into a conflict, we should all use our words rather than trying to go after others for things that at the end of the day are highly trivial.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Agree with the thread, and I aIso see some more additionaI stuff this couId quaIify for

2) Through a qualitative superiority over lesser things, which is to say: Ontologically surpassing all the contents of a lower reality, and being above their physical composition and differentiation. Characters of this nature don't simply lack all physicality and composition (As in Type 1), but surpass it altogether, being of a wholly superior nature that is not reachable by lower states of existence.

As a default, statements of being "above dimensions" are set at Low 1-A, and the same is applied to statements indicating superiority over "All of space and time," and similar. However, if they are applied to realms that can be inferred to surpass the very composition of the lower reality (e.g. Realms that are, themselves, non-composite, such as conceptual domains, or often, voids of nothingness), then 1-A is the most appropriate rating for them.

Furthermore, keep in mind that Type 2 Beyond-Dimensional Existence (In particular the latter variant) is not simply a combination of a non-dimensional state of existence and greater raw power than all dimensional structures in a cosmology – Though that is a necessary condition to qualify for it, it is not a sufficient one. Instead, the non-dimensional state of existence must be the direct cause of the character/realm's superiority over dimensions. A simple example being voids of nothingness that lack space, time and physicality entirely, but are nonetheless "vaster" than physical reality in some way, with common imagery being the universe as a small object encompassed in such a backdrop.

I think this couId easiIy quaIify, and reading most of the sandbox Iinked in the op, I noticed a few supporting statements as weII

Web novel rimuru

Iight noveI, not web noveI, stop brining exampIes you dont even know about -_-

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Agree with the thread, and I aIso see some more additionaI stuff this couId quaIify for

I think this couId easiIy quaIify, and reading most of the sandbox Iinked in the op, I noticed a few supporting statements as weII

Iight noveI, not web noveI, stop brining exampIes you dont even know about -_-

If the DG does get a Low 1-A - 1-A rating, I'd be pretty disappointed as the God Tiers would be too strong for any matchups I had planned, however depending on your reasoning and if everyone else agrees, ultimately, I'd be fine with it.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Agree with the thread, and I aIso see some more additionaI stuff this couId quaIify for

I think this couId easiIy quaIify, and reading most of the sandbox Iinked in the op, I noticed a few supporting statements as weII

Let's cut it short. This cannot be a higher dimension because "lower beings" can reach it without a specific mechanism of transcendence.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Let's cut it short. This cannot be a higher dimension because "lower beings" can reach it without a specific mechanism of transcendence.

There is not a rule against it, 3D beings can exist within a 4D realm, I don't believe there's anything on this wiki that states that if something like that does happen, it's an automatic disqualifier. And even then, not all verses follow the same rules.

 

[Mizuki67]

Let's cut it short. This cannot be a higher dimension because "lower beings" can reach it without a specific mechanism of transcendence.

it ain't a disqualifier lol. What is bro talking about

 

[Digital_Franz]

The point is that this same dimensional gap could be affected by these "lower beings" without HAX but with raw power. Is it still consistent? And in fact, I know that what I said is not a disqualifier because the lower dimensions exist in the higher dimensions but I shortened my thinking.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

The point is that this same dimensional gap could be affected by these "lower beings" without HAX but with raw power. Is it still consistent? And in fact, I know that what I said is not a disqualifier because the lower dimensions exist in the higher dimensions but I shortened my thinking.

if a 3D being with 2-A AP affects a 2-A realm, that's inconsistent? The only ones who affect it are the God Tiers in the verse who actively maintain it, there is no contradiction.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

If the DG does get a Low 1-A - 1-A rating, I'd be pretty disappointed as the God Tiers would be too strong for any matchups I had planned, however depending on your reasoning and if everyone else agrees, ultimately, I'd be fine with it.

AIright, I wiII give a simpIe expIanation
First, the DimensionaI Void is simpIy caIIed a Void many times

No. Unfortunately, that would be unwise. The prevailing theory at present is that the dimensional void is in equilibrium with the various planes of existence precisely because the Great Red resides within it. If Ophis—or Vali, for that matter—were to slay him and rule over it themselves,there’s no telling what would happen to our world. We might have been able to trust the old Ophis, but she’s changed too much.

Th-that was her grand motivation? The Space between Dimensions? To cut a long explanation short, a Dimensional Wall existed between the human realm, the underworld, the Heaven, a boundary that separated each plane from the next. It was supposedly an empty void filled with boundless nothing.

Regarding the thing about it being called Space, well, that can simply be solved by the analogy that it can just be referring to a higher form of Space, a more Real Space.

More proof :

We were investigating the dimensional gap around here by chance. Then this little lady came flying into the Dimensional Gap. Vali said he recognized her, so we brought her here. She was lucky. If we weren't there by luck, this girl would have been exposed to nothingness and would have perished.

If it were simply an empty space, there would be no reason the girl would perish, however, the statement is implying she would have indeed perished/erased if she was exposed to this nothingness. That, in itself, is enough to prove a full fledged Void

Empty space and black holes are not examples of a void as they possess energy and exist in the conventional sense. Manipulating either is Spatial Manipulation and Black Hole Creation respectively.

So, in this case, it is a simple void of nothingness that turns other things into the same nature as itself.

She's saying that's her reason? The Dimensional Gap. To make it simple, the human World and the Underworld, the human World and the Heaven, the dimensional wall which exists between them. The boundary which separates the World. Nothing exists there and it is called The World of Nothingness. I knew she was born there, but........

There is no way for a being that has been strong from the beginning would be able to understand the reason for Domination. You who was born from the Nothingness of Infinite and Great-Red who was born from the Illusions of dreams must have been from a different dimension. Ophis, you appeared in this World from the Dimensional Gap. What have you attained from this world, and why did you think of returning to your homeland?

Additionally, the most obvious proof is the statement from Gasper

I cant do it
I cant stop Time!
Is it because we are in the Dimensional Gap?
In here, both Time and Space are irrelevant!

So there you have it, its a Void of Nothingness that lacks Space and Time entirely. Thus, this fills the first part of this :

2) Through a qualitative superiority over lesser things, which is to say: Ontologically surpassing all the contents of a lower reality, and being above their physical composition and differentiation. Characters of this nature don't simply lack all physicality and composition (As in Type 1), but surpass it altogether, being of a wholly superior nature that is not reachable by lower states of existence.

As a default, statements of being "above dimensions" are set at Low 1-A, and the same is applied to statements indicating superiority over "All of space and time," and similar. However, if they are applied to realms that can be inferred to surpass the very composition of the lower reality (e.g. Realms that are, themselves, non-composite, such as conceptual domains, or often, voids of nothingness), then 1-A is the most appropriate rating for them.

Furthermore, keep in mind that Type 2 Beyond-Dimensional Existence (In particular the latter variant) is not simply a combination of a non-dimensional state of existence and greater raw power than all dimensional structures in a cosmology – Though that is a necessary condition to qualify for it, it is not a sufficient one. Instead, the non-dimensional state of existence must be the direct cause of the character/realm's superiority over dimensions. A simple example being voids of nothingness that lack space, time and physicality entirely, but are nonetheless "vaster" than physical reality in some way, with common imagery being the universe as a small object encompassed in such a backdrop.

Now, I think for the Vaster part, that's fairly obvious, given the following explanation from the sandbox itself :

Reworded Reasoning: Described as surrounding the Myth Realms. I think surrounding something is the same as containing something, at least within the context I'll talk about later. Contain definition "have or hold (someone or something) within." Surround definition "be all around (someone or something)."

Let me provide a few examples. If you fill a bottle with water, does it contain the water or surround it? Lets look at the definitions, does the bottle hold water within it? Yes! Does the bottle exist around the Water? Also yes, a water bottle both contains and surrounds water, and in this instance, they are both for the same reason.

Here's another, if you place a marble into your hand and close it around the marble, does your hand contain the marble or surround it? Lets check the definitions again, does your closed hand hold a marble within it? Yes! Does your hand exist around the marble? Also Yes. I hope you're starting to se my point.

This is the last one so pay close attention, does space in our universe contain or surround the planets? One more time, lets look at the definitions, does space hold planets within it? Yes! Does space exist around the planets, considering that if you go outside at night and look up, no matter where you are, you'll see a black night sky, I'm tempted to say yes to that as well.

Now, I hope we've established that the words"surround" and "contain" are inextricably linked and literally mean the same exact thing, as I've provided several examples that prove this. We can determine via common sense that the "Dimensional Void surrounding the underworld" statement means that the Dimensional Gap also contains the underworld.

With this, a full 1-A rating is pretty much ok imo

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The point is that this same dimensional gap could be affected by these "lower beings" without HAX but with raw power. Is it still consistent? And in fact, I know that what I said is not a disqualifier because the lower dimensions exist in the higher dimensions but I shortened my thinking.

Can simply mean a character that is non 1-A but has 1-A powers, this is made clear as doable in the FAQ :

However, there are ways to bypass this barrier. For example, a non-1-A can be empowered by a higher entity into being able to influence things on a qualitatively superior level. This can happen either by a straightforward power boost, or by means of some innate metaphysical potential rooted in something from a higher reality (This can include both characters who are converted into natives of higher planes and characters who are physically lower-dimensional but have 1-A statistics). In neither case is the capability to reach into the higher level something emergent from the structure of the lower level, and therefore they are acceptable ways to get around the above hurdles.

So that is not a problem at all

 

[MasqueTLDF]

AIright, I wiII give a simpIe expIanation
First, the DimensionaI Void is simpIy caIIed a Void many times


Regarding the thing about it being called Space, well, that can simply be solved by the analogy that it can just be referring to a higher form of Space, a more Real Space.

More proof :

If it were simply an empty space, there would be no reason the girl would perish, however, the statement is implying she would have indeed perished/erased if she was exposed to this nothingness. That, in itself, is enough to prove a full fledged Void

So, in this case, it is a simple void of nothingness that turns other things into the same nature as itself.


Additionally, the most obvious proof is the statement from Gasper

So there you have it, its a Void of Nothingness that lacks Space and Time entirely. Thus, this fills the first part of this :

Now, I think for the Vaster part, that's fairly obvious, given the following explanation from the sandbox itself :


With this, a full 1-A rating is pretty much ok imo

Alright, and I suppose the numerous "beyond dimensions" statements would be additional supporting evidence right? You have a better understanding than me on those higher tiers so I trust your opinion and agree, this seems reasonable enough.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Alright, and I suppose the numerous "beyond dimensions" statements would be additional supporting evidence right?

Yep

You have a better understanding than me on those higher tiers so I trust your opinion and agree, this seems reasonable enough.

I wiII take that as a compliment, thanks

 

[Georredannea15]

Can simply mean a character that is non 1-A but has 1-A powers, this is made clear as doable in the FAQ :


So that is not a problem at all

In the new system, unless there is a "big context and difference within the verse", being qualitatively superior now also means that your existence is at that level. So you also get things like BDE type 2

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

In the new system, unless there is a "big context and difference within the verse", being qualitatively superior now also means that your existence is at that level. So you also get things like BDE type 2

The context here is not the usuaI ReaIity fiction transcendence where everything from the above sees the Iower as fiction
otherwise with that Iogic the Space-times it contains wiII be BDE2 simpIy because they are contained within it, so yeah, the context in this case is highIy different from a normaI RF transcendence, thus the Big context and difference within the verse is appIicabIe here

Here the quaIitative superiority is sheerIy for the Void or WorId of nothingness, not characters in it. Tho 1-A ratings can stiII be given via the anaIogy that they are smurfs, i.e., Iower reaIity characters with higher reaIity powers, as described in the FAQ

 

[Digital_Franz]

if a 3D being with 2-A AP affects a 2-A realm, that's inconsistent? The only ones who affect it are the God Tiers in the verse who actively maintain it, there is no contradiction.

2-A is passable for me but above...

 

[MasqueTLDF]

In the new system, unless there is a "big context and difference within the verse", being qualitatively superior now also means that your existence is at that level. So you also get things like BDE type 2

In regards to the "existence" thing and "The first practical effect of this fact is that the power of a 1-A character cannot be dispersed so much that it reaches into a lower tier" from the faq since both would actually be disqualifiers, due to character interactions (Ophis being able to interact with beings like Issei and Lilith's existence), maybe Low 1-A?

 

[MasqueTLDF]

The context here is not the usuaI ReaIity fiction transcendence where everything from the above sees the Iower as fiction
otherwise with that Iogic the Space-times it contains wiII be BDE2 simpIy because they are contained within it, so yeah, the context in this case is highIy different from a normaI RF transcendence, thus the Big context and difference within the verse is appIicabIe here

Here the quaIitative superiority is sheerIy for the Void or WorId of nothingness, not characters in it. Tho 1-A ratings can stiII be given via the anaIogy that they are smurfs, i.e., Iower reaIity characters with higher reaIity powers, as described in the FAQ

I'm still confused with tier 1 however, I'll state that Ophis (who would scale to the Dimensional Gap) can interact with characters like base Issei (who doesn't). And a majority of her power was stolen at one point with a portion of it being used to form Lilith, Ophis after her power was stolen would be around 5-B and Lilith is significantly weaker than Trihexa who is a being that also scales to the Dimensional Gap. Just thought I'd mention this for transparency's sake.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Can simply mean a character that is non 1-A but has 1-A powers, this is made clear as doable in the FAQ :


So that is not a problem at all

However, there are ways to bypass this barrier. For example, a non-1-A can be empowered by a higher entity into being able to influence things on a qualitatively superior level. This can happen either by a straightforward power boost, or by means of some innate metaphysical potential rooted in something from a higher reality (This can include both characters who are converted into natives of higher planes and characters who are physically lower-dimensional but have 1-A statistics). In neither case is the capability to reach into the higher level something emergent from the structure of the lower level, and therefore they are acceptable ways to get around the above hurdles.

There needs to be a mechanism to reach the high level like receiving power from a higher entity.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

2-A is passable for me but above...

Well at least you now agree with the 2-A rating which is definitely some excellent progress and I thank you for seeing it my way.

 

[Mizuki67]

There needs to be a mechanism to reach the high level like receiving power from a higher entity.

"can be" not "need to be".

 

[MasqueTLDF]

I'd also mention that Ophis normally can't be interacted with by normal beings as seen in Volume 11 when Cao Cao uses his spear to stab her, it simply phased through her and was attributed to her existence. And when she is interacted with by lower D beings, it's usually to play games or eat food. And her power was reduced by another character who's hax was specifically made to be used on characters that scaled to Ophis like Great Red and Trihexa. And Issei would only get to 1-A via an amp from Ophis and Great Red with Apocalypse AnswerArms, not sure if this confirms or denies 1-A but I thought it was important to mention.

 

[SCARECROW1983]

In regards to the "existence" thing and "The first practical effect of this fact is that the power of a 1-A character cannot be dispersed so much that it reaches into a lower tier" from the faq since both would actually be disqualifiers, due to character interactions (Ophis being able to interact with beings like Issei and Lilith's existence), maybe Low 1-A?

In fact, the L1-A would fit perfectly, there are another couple of dimensional mentions (possibly higher or not) that would continue to be limited by the DG

 

[MasqueTLDF]

I'd also mention that Ophis normally can't be interacted with by normal beings as seen in Volume 11 when Cao Cao uses his spear to stab her, it simply phased through her and was attributed to her existence. And when she is interacted with by lower D beings, it's usually to play games or eat food. And her power was reduced by another character who's hax was specifically made to be used on characters that scaled to Ophis like Great Red and Trihexa. And Issei would only get to 1-A via an amp from Ophis and Great Red with Apocalypse AnswerArms, not sure if this confirms or denies 1-A but I thought it was important to mention.

Also, all of these characters are stated by the author and backed up by feats to be "the strongest class in the series" with AxA being able to damage Trihexa and the chain of scaling between the god tiers being consistent although I don't want to get into a discussion regarding character tiers just yet, seeing as it related to the topic, I supposed it would be interesting to note.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

There needs to be a mechanism to reach the high level like receiving power from a higher entity.

That is for when characters ascend to 1-A existence, not have 1-A powers

I'm still confused with tier 1 however, I'll state that Ophis (who would scale to the Dimensional Gap) can interact with characters like base Issei (who doesn't).

as I expIained above, simpIy existing in this void wouId not warrent any higher tier, the most common exampIe is this :
A work of fiction can exist in a higher reaIity in the form of nothing, that is, it does not occupy any reaI space, time, or anything inside it, just Iike that, ophis can simpIy exist in the void in that sense, in that she doesnt hoId any reIevant size in there. This is proven by the fact that a being exposed to the nothingness of the void perishes, that is, it turns nothing and hoIds no reIevant size in the void. otherwise aII dimensionaI crossing feats wouId make said characters 1-A simpIy because they are, even if temporariIy, existing the void.

And a majority of her power was stolen at one point with a portion of it being used to form Lilith, Ophis after her power was stolen would be around 5-B and Lilith is significantly weaker than Trihexa who is a being that also scales to the Dimensional Gap. Just thought I'd mention this for transparency's sake.

CouId you eIaborate on how exactIy ophis Iost her powers?

 

[Digital_Franz]

"can be" not "need to be".

He can. Yes it is a possibility but a 3-D being cannot have a 1-A power which is not HAX and which does not come from some mechanism.

 

[SCARECROW1983]

He can. Yes it is a possibility but a 3-D being cannot have a 1-A power which is not HAX and which does not come from some mechanism.

As far as I remember, there were 5D beings that couldn't even destroy something 3D. I don't see why the dimensionality of a character affects its scale if the logic of the verse doesn't contradict this, of course.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

CouId you eIaborate on how exactIy ophis Iost her powers?

“—It says that it is the poison of God. It says it is the evil intention of God. A forbidden being that made the people in Eden eat the fruit of knowledge. The first crime that was judged by the dead God from the Bible and still continues to be in effect. [Dragon-Eater] Samael. The angel that received the curse of God who hated dragons and snakes. A dragon. Yes. A dragon whose existence was eliminated from the record.”

Ophis being a dragon and God was particularly scared of Ophis and Trihexa who was also part dragon. (can't find the exact quote for the scared of ophis part but people knowledgeable on the verse can attest)

“...So you are going to summon Great Red and kill him?”

Cao Cao shook his head at my question.

“Well, maybe we won’t go that far. Anyway, we will catch him first before we decide what to do. There are so many unknowns with his existence, and there is so much to be learned. For example, what effect the Dragon Eater will have on the Apocalypse Dragon. Anyway, no matter what, it’s just an experiment to see if we can summon a powerful existence.”

—The Dragon Eater? It was a term I heard for the first time. I was surprised, but it will be an ominous character for sure.

“...I don’t understand these things, but I’m sure bad things will occur after you capture that gigantic Dragon. Also, the Kyuubi leader must be returned.”

“The one who turned into a snake and made Adam and Eve eat the fruit of knowledge is that. That action brought the fury of “God from the Bible”. So God started to hate snakes and dragons to the extreme. That’s the reason why dragons are depicted as evil in many of the texts from the Church. He is a being that was made of the evil intentions of God, because of God’s hate, a being who received many kinds of poisons and curses on his body. Naturally it is impossible for God, who is sacred, to have evil intentions. That’s why it has intense poison. Not only can it extinguish dragons but it can affect other things besides dragons, so it was sealed in the depths of Cocytus. The curse it received from God is the ultimate dragon-slayer. That alone makes him an existence that is a brutal dragon-slayer…..!”

“So like that Azazel-dono, Vali, and Sekiryuutei. The curse he has will devour and kill dragons. He can kill dragons for certain. It’s not on the same level as the dragon-slayer holy-swords. You can’t even compare them. Ascalon is like a toothpick to him, Hyoudou Issei.”

Ascalon as a toothpick!? No. Judging from this overwhelming hatred I feel, that Samael-san is a dragon-slayer that is on a different level from my Ascalon!

“What are you planning to do by using it!? Are you trying to annihilate dragons!? ……No. You guys are trying……..Ophis…….?”

GULP!

I heard a weird sound, it sounded like something was gulped!

When I looked around, there was a black block created at the place where Ophis was standing! A size big enough to envelop a person! So that’s what happened! From the black block, there was a tentacle growing out. When I looked at where the tentacle was leading to, it was connected to the fallen-angel dragon that was pinned to the cross! There was a very black tentacle, his tongue, growing out from his mouth!

-Samael gulped Ophis!?

I became confused at the sudden happening! But I could tell that those guys were up to no good by having Samael wrap Ophis with its tongue!

“Hey Ophis! Answer me!”

I talk to the block! But there isn’t any response from Ophis! This is bad! I’m sure this is really bad!

“Yuuto! Cut it!”

With Rias’s command, Kiba creates a holy-demonic sword in his hand and went slashing towards the black block!

-But, the black block devoured the holy-demonic sword and made the its blade disappear! Only half of the holy-demonic sword was left in Kiba’s hand!

“……It erased the holy-demonic sword? Can this black block erase an attack itself?”

Kiba created another demonic-sword and slashed it towards the tentacle, Samael’s tongue! But it achieved the same results as before! When he went to cut it, the part of the blade that touched it was erased, and the tip of the blade got split in two!

[Half Dimension!]

When Vali made the wings of light appear, Divine-Dividing, his surroundings became warped and all the things got reduced to half while making the sound of the Sacred Gear at the same time. That is Vali’s halving ability! But it didn’t have any effect on the black block or Samael’s tongue. Did he learn how to use that ability without turning into Balance-Breaker!?

“How’s this then?”

Then Vali shoots a wave of demonic power from his hand, but it was also devoured by the black block as if it was nothing. It didn’t even give any damage to the black block! It doesn’t even have a scratch or dent! It’s no use even with Vali!

“Then how about the power of destruction!”

Rias shoots it with enough demonic power to make things around her dissapear, but it didn’t do anything either! Is it stubbornly hard or does it have the power to avoid all attacks?

(Rias' Power of Destruction being erasure of the soul, body, and consciousness)

GULP. GULP.

While making a creepy voice, the tentacle attached to the block is getting bigger and is taking it towards Samael’s mouth. It seems like it is absorbing something from Ophis who is inside….. Wait, that’s it! Cao Cao did say “devour it” just before! Then I will just use the power of my Balance-Breaker and---

I made the Boosted Gear Scalemail appear immediately and wore it quickly! I also promoted to the usual Queen! When I was about to go hitting towards the block surrounding Ophis, Sensei stops me.

“Ise! Don’t take it on! He’s your ultimate natural enemy! He can’t be compared to Vali! That dragon must have the power to kill dragons easily! I mean, the situation is already bad since Ophis can’t even get out of it! The enemy is a dragon but don’t use Ascalon! We don’t know what will happen against the ultimate dragon-slayer!”

“Even if you say that, something terrible will happen if Ophis's caught by them right!?”
“---! …..I see! You used Samael to trim down Ophis’s power and give birth to “it” by using the power you took…… The new Ophis.”

Cao Cao nods at Sensei’s statement.

“That’s exactly right, Governor. We want an Ouroboros that does as we command. Truth is, Great-Red isn’t a being that is that important to us. This plan all began because we are tired of pleasing her with it. And we were able to challenge and test the ideal of the Hero-faction about challenging the superior being of “Can we defeat the infinite being and obtain it?”.”

“…..Splendid. For you to take down the infinite being in a way like this.”

“No, Governor. This is different from taking it down. Actually we do need the symbol to gather strength. In that part, Ophis was excellent. She became a propaganda tool and gathered those with strength that made a force like that. But using the Dragon-God whom we can’t read what she’s thinking as our puppet isn’t good.”

“……Sounds like a human. It definitely is a negative way of thinking like that of a human.”

“I’m very honoured with your compliment. ---Yes, I am a human.”

Cao Cao smiled at Sensei’s words.

…..A new Ophis? Creating a new Ophis….with the power Samael took from Ophis…..?

Edit: If the story seems incoherent, it's because it's quotes from different parts of the story

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

“—It says that it is the poison of God. It says it is the evil intention of God. A forbidden being that made the people in Eden eat the fruit of knowledge. The first crime that was judged by the dead God from the Bible and still continues to be in effect. [Dragon-Eater] Samael. The angel that received the curse of God who hated dragons and snakes. A dragon. Yes. A dragon whose existence was eliminated from the record.”

Ophis being a dragon and God was particularly scared of Ophis and Trihexa who was also part dragon. (can't find the exact quote for the scared of ophis part but people knowledgeable on the verse can attest)

“...So you are going to summon Great Red and kill him?”

Cao Cao shook his head at my question.

“Well, maybe we won’t go that far. Anyway, we will catch him first before we decide what to do. There are so many unknowns with his existence, and there is so much to be learned. For example, what effect the Dragon Eater will have on the Apocalypse Dragon. Anyway, no matter what, it’s just an experiment to see if we can summon a powerful existence.”

—The Dragon Eater? It was a term I heard for the first time. I was surprised, but it will be an ominous character for sure.

“...I don’t understand these things, but I’m sure bad things will occur after you capture that gigantic Dragon. Also, the Kyuubi leader must be returned.”

“The one who turned into a snake and made Adam and Eve eat the fruit of knowledge is that. That action brought the fury of “God from the Bible”. So God started to hate snakes and dragons to the extreme. That’s the reason why dragons are depicted as evil in many of the texts from the Church. He is a being that was made of the evil intentions of God, because of God’s hate, a being who received many kinds of poisons and curses on his body. Naturally it is impossible for God, who is sacred, to have evil intentions. That’s why it has intense poison. Not only can it extinguish dragons but it can affect other things besides dragons, so it was sealed in the depths of Cocytus. The curse it received from God is the ultimate dragon-slayer. That alone makes him an existence that is a brutal dragon-slayer…..!”

“So like that Azazel-dono, Vali, and Sekiryuutei. The curse he has will devour and kill dragons. He can kill dragons for certain. It’s not on the same level as the dragon-slayer holy-swords. You can’t even compare them. Ascalon is like a toothpick to him, Hyoudou Issei.”

Ascalon as a toothpick!? No. Judging from this overwhelming hatred I feel, that Samael-san is a dragon-slayer that is on a different level from my Ascalon!

“What are you planning to do by using it!? Are you trying to annihilate dragons!? ……No. You guys are trying……..Ophis…….?”

GULP!

I heard a weird sound, it sounded like something was gulped!

When I looked around, there was a black block created at the place where Ophis was standing! A size big enough to envelop a person! So that’s what happened! From the black block, there was a tentacle growing out. When I looked at where the tentacle was leading to, it was connected to the fallen-angel dragon that was pinned to the cross! There was a very black tentacle, his tongue, growing out from his mouth!

-Samael gulped Ophis!?

I became confused at the sudden happening! But I could tell that those guys were up to no good by having Samael wrap Ophis with its tongue!

“Hey Ophis! Answer me!”

I talk to the block! But there isn’t any response from Ophis! This is bad! I’m sure this is really bad!

“Yuuto! Cut it!”

With Rias’s command, Kiba creates a holy-demonic sword in his hand and went slashing towards the black block!

-But, the black block devoured the holy-demonic sword and made the its blade disappear! Only half of the holy-demonic sword was left in Kiba’s hand!

“……It erased the holy-demonic sword? Can this black block erase an attack itself?”

Kiba created another demonic-sword and slashed it towards the tentacle, Samael’s tongue! But it achieved the same results as before! When he went to cut it, the part of the blade that touched it was erased, and the tip of the blade got split in two!

[Half Dimension!]

When Vali made the wings of light appear, Divine-Dividing, his surroundings became warped and all the things got reduced to half while making the sound of the Sacred Gear at the same time. That is Vali’s halving ability! But it didn’t have any effect on the black block or Samael’s tongue. Did he learn how to use that ability without turning into Balance-Breaker!?

“How’s this then?”

Then Vali shoots a wave of demonic power from his hand, but it was also devoured by the black block as if it was nothing. It didn’t even give any damage to the black block! It doesn’t even have a scratch or dent! It’s no use even with Vali!

“Then how about the power of destruction!”

Rias shoots it with enough demonic power to make things around her dissapear, but it didn’t do anything either! Is it stubbornly hard or does it have the power to avoid all attacks?

(Rias' Power of Destruction being erasure of the soul, body, and consciousness)

GULP. GULP.

While making a creepy voice, the tentacle attached to the block is getting bigger and is taking it towards Samael’s mouth. It seems like it is absorbing something from Ophis who is inside….. Wait, that’s it! Cao Cao did say “devour it” just before! Then I will just use the power of my Balance-Breaker and---

I made the Boosted Gear Scalemail appear immediately and wore it quickly! I also promoted to the usual Queen! When I was about to go hitting towards the block surrounding Ophis, Sensei stops me.

“Ise! Don’t take it on! He’s your ultimate natural enemy! He can’t be compared to Vali! That dragon must have the power to kill dragons easily! I mean, the situation is already bad since Ophis can’t even get out of it! The enemy is a dragon but don’t use Ascalon! We don’t know what will happen against the ultimate dragon-slayer!”

“Even if you say that, something terrible will happen if Ophis's caught by them right!?”
“---! …..I see! You used Samael to trim down Ophis’s power and give birth to “it” by using the power you took…… The new Ophis.”

Cao Cao nods at Sensei’s statement.

“That’s exactly right, Governor. We want an Ouroboros that does as we command. Truth is, Great-Red isn’t a being that is that important to us. This plan all began because we are tired of pleasing her with it. And we were able to challenge and test the ideal of the Hero-faction about challenging the superior being of “Can we defeat the infinite being and obtain it?”.”

“…..Splendid. For you to take down the infinite being in a way like this.”

“No, Governor. This is different from taking it down. Actually we do need the symbol to gather strength. In that part, Ophis was excellent. She became a propaganda tool and gathered those with strength that made a force like that. But using the Dragon-God whom we can’t read what she’s thinking as our puppet isn’t good.”

“……Sounds like a human. It definitely is a negative way of thinking like that of a human.”

“I’m very honoured with your compliment. ---Yes, I am a human.”

Cao Cao smiled at Sensei’s words.

…..A new Ophis? Creating a new Ophis….with the power Samael took from Ophis…..?

Mate, I didnt mean as in just paste aII the scans reIated to it. Im not one famiIiar with the verse and its terms, so a summary wouId be better

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Mate, I didnt mean as in just paste aII the scans reIated to it. Im not one famiIiar with the verse and its terms, so a summary wouId be better

Basically the natural enemy to Ophis' species which was specifically made to kill her (and other god tiers) by one of the strongest and smartest in the verse. It erases and sure kills whatever it touches, but when it was eventually used on (with it's function adjust to absorb power from Ophis) Ophis it only sapped an unquantifiable amount of her power and that sapped power was used to create Lilith, a clone of Ophis. While both are high tiers, even after the weakening, they are far from Ophis' Prime to the point that they can be affected by 3D characters.

 

[Georredannea15]

The context here is not the usuaI ReaIity fiction transcendence where everything from the above sees the Iower as fiction
otherwise with that Iogic the Space-times it contains wiII be BDE2 simpIy because they are contained within it, so yeah, the context in this case is highIy different from a normaI RF transcendence, thus the Big context and difference within the verse is appIicabIe here

Here the quaIitative superiority is sheerIy for the Void or WorId of nothingness, not characters in it. Tho 1-A ratings can stiII be given via the anaIogy that they are smurfs, i.e., Iower reaIity characters with higher reaIity powers, as described in the FAQ

If a 1-A space or plane is affected by characters whose power is not "qualitatively superior" and who are part of a quantitative plane, it is an anti-feat. Check Ultima's revisions about this. Or if this character does so without being empowered in any way by a 1-A plane or character, this is also anti-feat

 

[Georredannea15]

In regards to the "existence" thing and "The first practical effect of this fact is that the power of a 1-A character cannot be dispersed so much that it reaches into a lower tier" from the faq since both would actually be disqualifiers, due to character interactions (Ophis being able to interact with beings like Issei and Lilith's existence), maybe Low 1-A?

Btw, I don't see any Low 1-A or anything like that here. There doesn't seem to be any "superiority over quantities of all dimensions" or "being greater than all possible dimensions" here right now. Or anything for BDE type 2 or R>F...

Other than that, yeah 2-A seems okay.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

If a 1-A space or plane is affected by characters whose power is not "qualitatively superior" and who are part of a quantitative plane, it is an anti-feat. Check Ultima's revisions about this.

I have aIready read the entire thing, no thanks.
SimpIy because a 1-A construct is affected by a non 1-A is not a disquaIifier, because 1-A smurfs can exist, even more so even the feat in question is simpIy affecting the bIank canvas/backdrops that contains them

 

[MasqueTLDF]

If a 1-A space or plane is affected by characters whose power is not "qualitatively superior" and who are part of a quantitative plane, it is an anti-feat. Check Ultima's revisions about this.

The power of the characters in relation to the cosmology isn't really the issue, rather the "The first practical effect of this fact is that the power of a 1-A character cannot be dispersed so much that it reaches into a lower tier" part.

 

[Georredannea15]

I have aIready read the entire thing, no thanks.
SimpIy because a 1-A construct is affected by a non 1-A is not a disquaIifier, because 1-A smurfs can exist, even more so even the feat in question is simpIy affecting the bIank canvas/backdrops that contains them

Dude, good morning, we're on the new system. This is a clear anti-feat against 1-A. One of the most important things is to be "non-interactive".


If any being or force from the lower planes interacts in any way with the 1-A plane, or likewise if this space claimed as 1-A does not show any feat of "non-interaction" towards the lower realms, it is not 1-A again.

In short, the feat of non-interaction is only one of the crucial points