Dragonball Cosmology Analysis

[RM97]

This will be an analysis regarding Dragonball's Cosmology. So hopefully People can have a better Understanding of A Single Macrocosm/Universe in DB.


1) To begin with, Universe 7 is represented in 2 maps:-

https://www.kamisama.com.br/mundodbzworld.jpg

And:

http://www.***********.net/dragon-ball-super/5/20

Note:- Each Universe is separated by it's own Space-Time and there exists a neutral dimension between two Universes. They don't share the Same Space-Time continuum otherwise Goku vs Beerus's shockwave would've affected the other Universes. Many ppl will say "But we have seen characters fly from one Universe to other so they definitely share the same Space-Time Continumm". No. Only characters who were Shown to Fly and Cross Dimensions and Realms were Whis and Vados. Beerus nor Champa traveled from one Universe to the other and instead required the help from their respective Angels in order to do so. Hitto used the Cube iirc to travel, Zamasu used his Teleportation to go from U10 to U7, The U9 Assassins were Teleported. So yeah, no character went from one Universe to another via Simple Flight. They either did so via Teleportation or Via a Special Type of Flight that could cross Dimensional Barriers.



Inb4 "Manga is a different than the Anime/Separate Continuity". Both are Canon and written primarily by Akira Toriyama. Infact Akira Toriyama supervises Toyotaro's Manga and helps him with stuffs. Granted that both display different Powersets, Powerlevels and Plot Progression, but it doesn't invalidate the fact that both use the same setting and base for their Stories.

2) In the Previous Map description, The 2nd map seems to be just a generic "cosmos" map as shown in both the Manga and Anime and nothing much to elaborate on. However, the first map shows the structure of Universe 7 and presumably the other 11. Yes, this map is still recognized in DBS, shown in the DBS manga which is secondary canon:

http://www.***********.net/dragon-ball-super/16/28

As we can see from the first map, U7 is split up into 4 major areas: The Mortal Universe, The Makai, The Afterlife, and the Supreme Kais realm. We'll begin with the structure of the Mortal Universe. Keep in mind that this map is not to scale, which will be discussed later.

3) The Mortal Universe is the realm of reality where Goku lives in. It is said by Jaco to contain countless Galaxies akin to the Milky Way Galaxy, Jaco being a space patroller is knowledgeable on that subject:

In the anime we actually get to see a scene where we're introduced to many Galaxies on screen:

https://media.giphy.com/media/gVnUsjs6E3Yc/giphy.gif

The Jaco scene is also in the anime:

http://imgur.com/a/A24rZ The Episode where the Jaco scene is from is Episode 31 in case one wants to see it for themselves, skip to 5:00

https://*********.io/Anime/Dragon-Ball-Super.24372/Episode-031?id=122615

The Daizenshuu 7 states that Galaxies exist infinitely throughout the Universe, saying there's an infinite amount of Galaxies:

http://imgur.com/a/sNlLK

Link to the Screenshot:

http://www.magikarp46.com/dragonball/guidebooks/07-worldview.php

Here's Herms stating that's what the description means in case one needs some more elaboration:

http://imgur.com/a/57I3h

Link to the screenshot of Herms descrpiption:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=27023

For a quick recap on an old topic, it is said that the Mortal Universe is split up in 4 Galaxies by the Kais such as King Kai to govern them, the Northern, Southern, Eastern, and Western Galaxies. King Kai governs the Northern Galaxy. For a good number of years people debated there were literally only 4 Galaxies since even Funimation translates it like "Northern Galaxy." and even Herms himself was confused as seen in the previous link. However, as shown in the earlier links that's obviously not the case. The confusion most likely comes from the fact that the Japanese language doesn't have any plurals, here's more info on the subject:

http://lang-8.com/593069/journals/52424772090125729458348950310659688101

So for example it can be translated as "Northern Galaxies" or "Northern Galaxy."

4) Another thing is that according to Herms the Mortal Universe is based off like ours or at least like sci fis such as Star Wars:

http://imgur.com/a/JoxT1

Link to the Screenshot:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11596

Also, the 4 Galaxies being "split up" is just metaphorical, in case anyone thought they had literal barriers.

http://imgur.com/a/A0Vdq

Finally, the Universe is an "endlessly expanding" space.


To recap the Mortal Universe is based off of ours, which means similar physics, stars, cosmic phenomena, etc. and contains an infinite amount of Galaxies many of which are as big as the Milky Way Galaxy in an endlessly expansive space.


5) The next area of Universe 7 is the Makai, which is known as the Demon realm or Demon Universe:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11131/111310979/5853343-p.txt.png


The Demon Realm is described as being the other sode of the same coin as the Mortal Universe, and takes up the lower half of the "Living World" which is what the Mortal Universe and Makai are referred to as a whole.

"The living world is split into two dimensions described as being like the two sides of a coin. The top half is the universe, overseen by the Kaio and Kaioshin, and run according to science (or what passes for it in the DB world). The bottom half is the Demon Realm, where magic has more sway than science, and where the evil Makaio and Makaioshin are gods."

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11596

So the Demon Universe is a parallel Universe to the Mortal Universe where evil and magic reign.

6) Next is the Afterlife portion. As said earlier the DBU map is not drawn to scale. If the Makai and Mortal Universe portions were not as obvious, the Afterlife portion surely is.

Now for the Afterlife. As said earlier the Map shown in the Daizenshuu is not meant to be taken literal. Reason being is the Afterlife is far larger than the Mortal Universe and Demon Realm. How do we know this? Within the Afterlife exists Heaven, a Planet that is the size of the Mortal Universe. Heaven floats directly above Enmas palace, yet despite its massive size it cannot be seen by the naked eye as noted in the manga how no one notices it when at Enmas palace.



http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19669

6) Akira Toriyama designed the structure of the Afterlife.



http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/daizenshuu-4-akira-toriyama-super-interview/

7) Heaven was shown in the manga. As mentioned in an earlier pic above, Goku trained for the 25th budokai aka the buu arc tournament there. Aka the infamous "40 Ton" Scene.


http://englishfortamils.com/comics/...on Ball Z v20&image=Dragon+Ball+Z+v20-111.jpg

I circled that part to explain other large things that the Afterlife contains. That circle is Grand Kais planet which is large enough to be visible in the skies of Heaven as shown in the manga and said in Daiz.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11502

8) The Afterlife also only contains one star large enough that it can illuminate the entire dimension


http://web.archive.org/web/20111104...com/trans-daiz04.php?m=03&id=field-other#link

9) The Afterlife is stated to be a place where time does not exist according to Goku which implies it's extra dimensional, which makes sense considering how large the dimension is. "This world" is referring to the mortal universe. This chapter is when Goku and Piccolo are discussing Goten and Trunks vs. Buu


http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-476/

10) Last but not least, Kaioshin realm is one tenth the combined space of The Afterlife and mortal Universe combined.


http://magikarp46.com/dragonball/guidebooks/07-worldview.php#part5

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11596


11) Non Canonically (Anime, Movies, GT,etc) The Cosmology is same as that of Canon Potrayal. TOEI didn't mess with the cosmology and the "4 Galaxy Universe" was a misconception among fans as it was Repeatedly Shown in Both the Anime Z and GT and Movies that there Exists Multiple Galaxies as well as Backed up by the Databooks.



So in summary:-

•Universe 7 (and Logically Every Universe/Macrocosm) is made up of the following "realms"

•It has a universe based off of ours that is endlessly expansive, contains an "infinite" amount of galaxies countless of which are the size of the milky way.

•It contains an Afterlife that is so.large it contains a planet the size of the Universe called Heaven, Grand Kais planet is multi galaxy in size since it can be seen in the skies of Heaven, and a one star large enough to illuminate the entire dimension. Heaven also floats directly above Enmas palace, yet is so far away it cannot be seen by the naked eye, which is a good way to calculate a minimum distance how large the Afterlife is. It also has no time according to Goku, implying it's extra dimensional.

•Supreme Kaia realm, which exista outside of The Afterlife and Mortal universe and is one tenth the size of the combined space of said dimensions.

•And finally the Demon Realm which is the "polar opposite" of the mortal universe indicating similar size.7 is made up of the following multiple "realms".

Credits to a Friend of Mine named Raul Macedo who helped with 90% of the things including Scans, Links,etc.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

And there isn't any fillar statements here?

 

[RM97]

Filler Statements is for the Non Canon part that I posted below I.e. the Videl, Bulma part

 

[RM97]

Bump

 

[AguilaR101]

This looks promising.

 

[RM97]

I hope this will help everyone have a better understanding of DB cosmology. I also hope this will upgrade some GT characters and some Super Characters OvO

 

[RM97]

Bump

 

[Crzer07]

You forgot about RoSaT which is another realm of itself, and Andrew Sosa has proven it to be universal size. You think so?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

No. To bkth of that.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not have the time and energy to properly evaluate the first post, but would appreciate staff help to do so.

 

[Dark649]

You forgot about RoSaT which is another realm of itself, and Andrew Sosa has proven it to be universal size.

No, it's only planetary in size.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Dark is right , Goku says it's only planet.

 

[RM97]

Andrew Sosa is Famous even in here??

And no. ROSAT is only Planetary sized dimension where Time is Diluted.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Who.

 

[RM97]

A dragonball debater in facebook.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Do ya got a screencap my man?

 

[RM97]

Sadly nope.

 

[Crzer07]

Well I'd put a link to the exact post on his Sosapotence profile where he made the arguments or from one of his groups where they post dumb quotes, or it could be in death battle unrestricted but couldn't find it at the moment. Basically along the lines of the sky extends indefinitely, and only the ground is planetary.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Where do I start with that?.

 

[Aceraspire]

This should be highllited

ALso finally someone proves 100% that DB was always in size like ours,not just 4 galaxies

 

[AKM sama]

This would further prove that 1 universe in DB actually contains at least 2, if not more, space-time continuums.

- Infinite Zamasu becoming 1 with the entire universe would be a 2-C feat.

- GoDs fighting and destroying 2 universes i.e. at least 4 space-time continuums would also be a 2-C feat since they are scaled above IZ.

- Those who scale like Angels, Jiren, UI Goku and ssj2 Kefla would also become 2-C.

 

[Antvasima]

This thread would quickly turn unmanageable with a highlight, but I have asked some staff members who know Dragon Ball well for input.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There are a lot of filler statements and hyperbole here.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

To recap:

The Dragon Ball Universe isn't infinite in size. It is visibly limited and provably so. Secondly, we have no conclusive information on the size of Hell, only guesswork, and Heaven visibly isn't the size of our universe considering that it is inside the Afterlife, which contains Heaven and Hell and the Afterlife as a whole is the size of our universe.

The statement that time doesn't exist in the Afterlife is taken out of context. Obviously there is time, or else 1 year in the real world wouldn't be 1 year in the afterlife, and Goku wouldn't have to rush through Snake Way. It only means that people don't feel the passage of time there, i.e, they don't age nor get tired.

And at best, the Pre-Super DB Universe is the size of 4 clusters of galaxies.

At best the Dragon Ball Universe is the size of 2.5 universes.

That doesn't mean that this should make the characters 2-C, or else every DC Comics Universe-buster should be 2-B because their universe is over 3,296.7033 times larger than our Observable Universe.

 

[The_Everlasting]

^

This.

 

[ALRF]

^^ This

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also, in GT, when the Kais are talking about how Omega Shenron will destroy the universe,we are only shown Four Galaxies (Alongside smaller points that might be galaxies too)

 

[Kepekley23]

I think we should wait for his rebuttal.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for evaluating this Matthew.

 

[AKM sama]

@Matt

What about having at least 2 separate space-time continuums in 1 universe?

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, in GT, when the Kais are talking about how Omega Shenron will destroy the universe,we are only shown Four Galaxies (Alongside smaller points that might be galaxies too)

There is also this , from the first episode of Dragon Ball GT.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

But isn't the big thing for 2-C separate space times? The afterlife has a different space time from the living world so it would be 2-C?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's all part of the same universe actually. You can see in Super, all that structure is contained inside the same thing, which makes up the universe.

 

[Mania568]

i wouldnt put much faith in a non cannon series about how big the universe is, though it is true that it was showed to us that it was 4 galaxies in Z, but super changed that as a retcon, even the super dragon ball dragon appearing it felt that it showed more than just 4 galaxies just looking at his massive size, still using gt as a measurement of super feels wrong

 

[Darkmon_cns]

But there still 2 different space times when I have asked about 2-C I have aways been told the space times being separate was the big thing.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

But there still 2 different space times when I have asked about 2-C I have aways been told the space times being separate was the big thing.

Yeah, but it is just parts of one thing. Just like the Trinity of Realities in Bayonetta are just one universe, but split into separate dimensions.

Or how the DC and Marvel universes have a ton of dimensions inside and connected to it.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, it would be hilariously impractical to separate an endless universe in four administrative sections.

Popo also stated that the "space" of the Dragon Ball universe was composed of "North, West, East and South Galaxies" on DBGT.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

But they are each separate and confirmed to be the size of our own universe each.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

they are really not separate.

If you take a house, added a giant wall separating the house in two, would you have two houses?

 

[Kepekley23]

Where were they confirmed to be each the size of our own universe...?