Dragon Ball Z Multipliers Revision

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Dzhindzholia, some characters are closer the SPC's 1000 Kilofoe feat rather than they are to First Form Frieza's 1.7 Tenaton feat. I understand it's hard, but having a whole bunch of characters be at least High 5-A likely far higher via A > B > C logic, is really redundant to the the point where it's bad. Same with at least Relativistic likely Far higher. In fact, that latter is worse. Option 3 is the safest lowball we can find if anything.

 

[LightinAnt]

@Dzhindzholia You have to have scaling and statements too or else everyone from DBZ Saiyan-Buu saga is Planet to Star level and just Relativistic+++

 

[Stefano4444]

Kep told me that Roshi feat was calced at Planet level. Relativistic, said Roshi is inferior to Young Piccolo, Post Water Kid Goku, 23 Budokai Chiaotzu, Yamcha, Tao Pai Pai and Tien, who are much weaker to Kami, Goku and Piccolo.

That as Buffed Roshi while using his 100% Kamehameha.

Only 23rd Budokai Goku and 23rd Budokai Piccolo who should be get scaled from 100% Kamehameha, as the Super Kamehameha was imply to be stronger than 100% Kamehameha, which is also conferm in a guidebook.

 

[Dark649]

After Tien fight, he stated that they are stronger.

 

[Stefano4444]

Roshi has stated, mainly after seeing Tien that he they are stronger.

I still think it would be more safe to scale only Budokai 23rd Goku and Piccolo as in that case it was suggest Goku's Super Kamehameha to be stronger than his 100% Kamehameha, while with Tien it can be interpreted as the former be stronger than Master Roshi without the 100% Kamehameha.

 

[Antvasima]

@Damage3245

Weren't you supposed to write up your own new Dragon Ball scaling suggestion, or do I misremember?

 

[Dzhindzholia]

High 5-A to low 4-C or rel to FTL is a lot better than exaggerating with ridiculuos multipliers.

Cell doesn't have 1kilofoe feat,he has a statement.

@LightinAnt

How is that bad for the verse with no Star Level or SOL level feats?

 

[Damage3245]

@Damage3245
Weren't you supposed to write up your own new Dragon Ball scaling suggestion, or do I misremember?

I was originally planning on doing that, but then Dark649 said he was already working on it so I decided not to overlap his work.

 

[AstralKing7]

I agree with Ant and Dzhind it's better to have the feats to go off of than nothing or this is gonna be just like the Seven Deadly Sin's problem we had a month ago with scaling

 

[LightinAnt]

You have to use scaling or else we'd have Planet level/Relativistic Buu saga characters and FTL only in the TOP through Dyspo

 

[Stefano4444]

High 5-A to low 4-C or rel to FTL is a lot better than exaggerating with ridiculuos multipliers.

Expect the Kaioken Multipliers have been accepted as valid, and unless decided otherwise they can be used just like the Dying Will Flame from Reborn or the Gear 4th from One Piece.

 

[Antvasima]

@AstralKing7

I have modified my last post. I am the wrong person to ask about this subject.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

You have to use scaling or else we'd have Planet level/Relativistic Buu saga characters and FTL only in the TOP through Dyspo

Actually, Beerus and Champa have their own MFTL+ feats.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe asking Azathoth to evaluate whether version 2 or 3 is best would be an idea? Although that could take a while.

 

[SomebodyData]

Can anyone explain to me how we got MFTL+ and 2x Frieza = Android 18 stuff? i am confused. And was Ginyu Saga Goku even able to get to KKx10?

 

[Antoniofer]

Ehh, I don't think Goku had kkx10 at the time he fought Ginyu, I think he was able to used due the zenkai. Either way, no, Ginyu do not have the meants to use Goku's technics.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Well, IMO, i was thinking into a more conservative scaling without the use of multipliers for AP (Sorry is measy, I'm on cellphone)

Dwarf Star level (1.7 Tenatons) 1st Form Frieza

At least High 5-A for 2nd and 3rd form Frieza (The previous calc isn't far beyond Small Star level)

Low 4-C for Final Form Frieza 50% and KKx20 Goku and the Spirit Bomb (Given the inmense jump in power)

Low 4-C Frieza 100% and SSJ Goku (Namek), Mecha Frieza and SSJ Trunks (Low 4-C has a big gap in power)

Likely Low 4-C Androids 19-20 (The likes of Gohan are well below Gero according to Piccolo, and, even before the 3 years training, Gohan could stagger 3rd Form Frieza, so I guess this is a fair rating)

Low 4-C+ Pre Training SSJ Goku, likely Piccolo post Training

4-C Post Training SSJ Goku, SSJ Vegeta, Androids 17-18, Piccolo-Kami, etc (The Androids are stronger than Vegeta, but not by an inmense margin)

4-C+ Imperfect Cell and Android 16 (Cell easily defeated Piccolo and 17)

High 4-C... Everyone from SemiPerfect Cell up to Super Perfect Cell basically

Large Star level (4.535 Foe) Shin (Who being honest, given that he is weaker than the Rusty SSJ Buu Saga Gohan, but not by much, and his terror of fighting Dabura, who is Perfect Cell level, he should be around ASSJ Vegeta if you ask me)

 

[Dark649]

Can anyone explain to me how we got MFTL+ and 2x Frieza = Android 18 stuff? i am confused. And was Ginyu Saga Goku even able to get to KKx10?

Its due to an upward speed scaling of x2 stomp boosts, transformations and kaioken boosts. x2 Frieza is because he was 50% of his power and it does not correlate to Android 18, who casually broke SS Trunks sword, which previously killed Mecha Frieza.

 

[Dark649]

Well, IMO, i was thinking into a more conservative scaling without the use of multipliers for AP.

The Kaioken multipliers were accepted, and Super Perfect Cell 4-B. Also Dabura is stronger than Perfect Cell since Goku said that he's a lot stronger than he thought.

 

[Dark649]

Ehh, I don't think Goku had kkx10 at the time he fought Ginyu.

Wrong .

 

[Damage3245]

Oh god... please stop using those scans for Dragon Ball. Just as a public service.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

He said he is stronger but not in terms of power, literally the line before that refers to his magic

And even if KK is accepted, you should only use that So: 1st Form Frieza 1.7 Tenatons (Dwarf Star level)

Goku post Zenkai: (At least) 1.7 Tenatons

Goku kkx20 and Frieza 50% and Spirit Bomb: 34 Tenatons (Small Star level)

SSJ Goku and 100% Frieza: 68 Tenatons (Small Star level)

 

[Antoniofer]

Ehh, I don't think Goku had kkx10 at the time he fought Ginyu.

Wrong .

Ahh, didn't remember that... Also yes, those scans are awful. But Ginyu is unable to use any type of kk.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Dark We can't just put a random multiplier on stomp boosts.

@Aiden Though I'm pretty sure Goku was refering to stronger in terms of power. At least, given that Goku generally doesn't go out of his way to say x is stronger due to an ability.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I think that in thread "Ginyu Goku" is Goku in the Ginyu Arc, not when they switched bodies

 

[Dark649]

Why would Post Zenkai Base Goku be equal to First Form Frieza when he fought a very casual Final Form Frieza, who killed Post Zenkai Vegeta that surpassed his Third Form that easily defeated Post Nail Piccolo in power?.

 

[Antoniofer]

Post Zenkai Goku is stronger than any Frieza prior to his final form, you can tell that by looking at their respective PL (not use multiplied of course).

@Aiden, I see.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Why would Post Zenkai Base Goku be equal to First Form Frieza when he fought a very casual Final Form Frieza, who killed Post Zenkai Vegeta that surpassed his Third Form that easily defeated Post Nail Piccolo in power?.

"At least"

Look, multipliers are kind of problematic, even if we use KK's, that's all we should use

 

[LightinAnt]

They aren't problematic, atleast for Super Saiyan 1 since it has to be atleast stronger than 40x in the context of the fight and was confirmed in guides/Toriyama that its 50x times

 

[Dark649]

The third option suggested by Kep in speed assumes that Goku speed was 0.14c [the same as Piccolo beam] when he fought Vegeta, which is not the same because he should have got faster after training with King Kai since he kept up with Full Power Nappa, who should be faster than Krillin that oneshotted 4 Saibaman that are equal to Raditz that blitzed both Goku and Vegeta.

Ginyu Saga Base Goku is faster than Kaiokenx4 Base Saiyan Saga Goku since he blitzed Recoome, Jeice and Burter, who are stronger than Post Zenkai Vegeta that killed Zarbon.

2nd Form Freeza and Piccolo are faster than Ginyu Saga Kaiokenx10 Goku because its only slightly faster than Base Frieza, Second Form Frieza implied that has no problems to blitz and kill Post Zenkai Vegeta, who briefly stopped his first form.

Goku Post-Zenkai is faster than Frieza three forms and Post Zenkai Vegeta against casual Final Frieza.

- That is the reason why the second option has higher ratings.

 

[Antoniofer]

I think that the better we can do is put the "at least", "likely higher" and/or "likely far higher", that last option is considered calc stacking is most of the cases.

 

[AstralKing7]

Man I always forget calc stacking is a thing ƒñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å

 

[SomebodyData]

I think speed should just stay how it is.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I think that the better we can do is put the "at least", "likely higher" and/or "likely far higher", that last option is considered calc stacking is most of the cases.

And KK's multipliers?

Like, using KKx20 on Piccolo's calc and using for Namek Saga (Much stronger basically) Goku and others?


If not, then the entire series become Relativistic lmao

 

[Dark649]

I think speed should just stay how it is.

The FTL+ speed has not reason to being in there, it should be changed. Kaioken multipliers were also accepted, the other series can use multipliers but not dbz.

 

[Damage3245]

If not, then the entire series become Relativistic lmao

That might fit in better with Gotenks' feat

 

[SomebodyData]

FTL+ comes from KKx20 on Post-Zenkai Goku who is at least as fast as KKx4 Saiyan Saga Goku

 

[DragonEmperor23]

If not, then the entire series become Relativistic lmao

That might fit in better with Gotenks' feat

Pretty sure Gotenks being as fast as BOS Piccolo's attack is more unfitting.

 

[Dark649]

I will close the thread as it will likely lead to nothing since Matthew and Azathoth will also reject this.