Dragon Ball Upgrades

[Shock97]

He didnt specify, him stating he could have dealt with Zamasu was AFTER he said he would get Beerus to seal the immortal Zamasu away
So they planned on going back before the two became Merged Zamasu?

 

[Betanight]

It's only logical it should scale to the other god tiers, it seemed to have been just Zamasu for several reasons...

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

As for Scaling, this means High-3A for high tiers, Black being able to tear through space time(with raw ki), the saiyans tanking attacks from a low 2-C and potential 2-C all imply a low 4D scale of power.

Black cutting through space-time is not a tier 2 feat its at best High 3-A and it's mostly considered hax

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's space-time manipulation.

 

[Mister_Death]

Slightly off topic, but Black is the only reason Zamasu has that kind of power. Something about the Kai power+ saiyan power mixed in with goku's body caused Black to get strange powers, as evident with cutting through space time

I would say Black is still alive(before getting no diffed by zeno of course) but zamasu's face is showing because he is the dominant fusee

 

[AguilaR101]

Black cutting through space-time is not a tier 2 feat its at best High 3-A and it's mostly considered hax

That's what I said.

High 3-A for high tiers, them tanking attacks from a low 2-C is evidence of 4D power in a lesser scale.

It's considered hax, but as I stated in other thread the fact that a later combined form of his attains low 2-C feat is proof that this can be taken as a high 3-A feat instead.

 

[Gokuiscool144]

He didnt specify, him stating he could have dealt with Zamasu was AFTER he said he would get Beerus to seal the immortal Zamasu away

So they planned on going back before the two became Merged Zamasu?
You're overthinking this. No, Whis AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME stated he could have dealt with Zamasu- he was very confident and smiling, this was AFTER he said Beerus could have sealed the immortal Zamasu away (Saying Beerus' seal is better than the mafuba). Goku asked why they didn't do it in the first place and Beerus said "Dont rely on gods"

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I wouldn't say entirely. This is a combined form after doing some bull that boosted him to that power. Doubt we can retroactively scale like that. Personally, I believe either they scale to the whole thing or none of it. Like all or nothing. If this form of him isn't stronger than the rest of him, then the high tiers should get low 2-C.

 

[Promestein]

I agree with the changes and the things brought up by Matt, not with scaling anyone to this.

 

[Shock97]

He didnt specify, him stating he could have dealt with Zamasu was AFTER he said he would get Beerus to seal the immortal Zamasu away

So they planned on going back before the two became Merged Zamasu?

You're overthinking this. No, Whis AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME stated he could have dealt with Zamasu- he was very confident and smiling, this was AFTER he said Beerus could have sealed the immortal Zamasu away (Saying Beerus' seal is better than the mafuba). Goku asked why they didn't do it in the first place and Beerus said "Dont rely on gods"
Okay now I get it. Thank you.

 

[Ryukama]

I agree with the changes and the things brought up by Matt, not with scaling anyone to this.

Same here.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Doesn't anyone think that Vegeta's Room of Spirit and time feat is more consistent now especially since its only High 3-A compared to this?

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Doesn't anyone think that Vegeta's Room of Spirit and time feat is more consistent now especially since its only High 3-A compared to this?

yep

 

[Master_Xar]

I don't get the no scaling, they took legitimate hits from the mist Zamasu

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Doesn't anyone think that Vegeta's Room of Spirit and time feat is more consistent now especially since its only High 3-A compared to this?

Still only planet sized...

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Still only planet sized...

planet size space time continuum.

 

[RadicalMrR]

I know but any amount of space time destroyed is High 3-A.

 

[Huesito88]

Yep stated by goku but who knows that might be retconed in super

 

[Ryukama]

Doesn't anyone think that Vegeta's Room of Spirit and time feat is more consistent now especially since its only High 3-A compared to this?

The RoSaT is only planet sized, which (along with the vagueness of the scene itself) is why I think it was ultimately turned down IIRC. I may be wrong, but I've heard before only destroying significant portions of space-time is High 3-A, with insignificantly small parts being determined unquantifiable.

But even if that was a High 3-A feat, how does a character Vegeta doesn't scale to performing a feat infinitely greater than his inconsistent feat now make it consistent?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Here are the scans:


Zamasu becoming one with the universe.


Zamasu appearing in the present, evidence that he was becoming one with the space-time continuum, not just the physical universe.


Confirmation from Beerus and Whis.

Should I also post scans for Zeno's complete erasure of the future multiverse? He completely destroyed the world / existence (Sekai), as opposed to merely the universe (Uchuu). This is evidenced by Zeno having to go to the past again, since if the other universes were fine he'd just go back to his jellyfish house.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Personally, I think we should take up what the OBD did and make them low 2-C, but that's just me. But I don't think that feat is High 3-A.

 

[AguilaR101]

Doesn't anyone think that Vegeta's Room of Spirit and time feat is more consistent now especially since its only High 3-A compared to this?

Still only planet sized...

Stil a continum though, that fits the definition of high 3-A as low scale 4D destruction, helps as more evidence for placing saiyan gods as High 3A now.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I fully agree with this as well.

Also, here's an image of Soul Zamasu to use.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

The RoSaT is only planet sized, which (along with the vagueness of the scene itself) is why I think it was ultimately turned down IIRC.

And even if that was a High 3-A feat, how does a character Vegeta doesn't scale to performing a feat infinitely greater than his inconsistent feat now make it consistent?

it's not really infinitely greater it would be the high 3A for doing non Universal 4D stuff

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also, for the people who'll make the new Key in Merged Zamasu's profile, here's the pic you'll need:

 

[Geova2507]

I think the gods and the high tiers should at least escalate to high 3A (goku/vegeta/beerus, etc) or possibly low 2C <beerus/whis/vadus, etc)

 

[Master_Xar]

Listen I think the arc may have had some High 3-As with the evidence so far Evidenced by Vegeta destroying the time chamber Black cutting space-time And Gowasu commenting Wall of Light Zamasu's power after fusing "expanded to no end" And they took hits from Mist Zamasu who at this point is bare minimum low 2-C

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Howard

Universal+ in OBD means "Strong Univesal"

It has nothing to do with out Tiering System and how we rank a lot of characters isn't how they rank it. What they think is irrelevant.

 

[Promestein]

We don't count space-time destruction feats as High 3-A unless they are depicted as significantly above universal in scale, to my knowledge.

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Ryu Well he had training,After Black adapted to his power he could also mess with space time and now this so 4D power is consistent. I really am spitballing because right now Zamasu is the second strongest DB character by far and it sorta feels weird.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

We don't count space-time destruction feats as High 3-A unless they are depicted as significantly above universal in scale, to my knowledge.

that's not what the description says

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

What Promenstein said.

Destroying the Space-Time Continuum of a Room Sized Dimension is unquantifiable. High 3-A is quite rare and almost never appears. It's for 4D characters who are below Low 2-C, but still somewhat comparable, or those who destroy infinite sized physical universes

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Nah. It's not that. Just using that as a reference. Just think that them taking a hit shows that it's Low 2-C. But if it's not, believe me. I don't mind. I seriously don't see High 3-A though, because there's no confirmation that Vegeta destroyed the time of the area (and in order for an upgrade into tier 2, it is mandatory for a confirmation of sorts), a hax ability, and a hyperbole. Taking hits from Giygmasu is a legitimate thing that I must think about though.

Talking to Matt about his post prior to his most recent one.

 

[Master_Xar]

Plus Merged Zamasu's power "expanding to no end". And them taking hits from Zamasu

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

High 3-A again? Jeez the HBTC was only planet sized and anything below universe level is unquantifiable to my knowledge. And gowasu and supreme kai survived zamasu's attacks too so that also means nothing, this doesn't scale to the other characters.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Taking hits from Giygamasu is an outlier for the trio, simple as that.

 

[RadicalMrR]

So is it just Zamasu who is getting upgraded?

 

[Ryukama]

@Radical Like Promestein said destroying small portions of time typically has not been counted as High 3-A (and we haven't rated Superman, Hulk, Juggernaut or Gotenks's feats of doing so as that, even ignoring whether or not they'd be outliers, we still decided those feats wouldn't be that level IIRC)

And once again Zamasu, who does not scale to Vegeta, performing 4-D feats infinitely greater than Vegeta's wouldn't suddenly make Vegeta's feat not an outlier. Zen'ō doing something Immeasurable wouldn't make Goku Infinite for moving in voided time this episode legit.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I guess so. Expect Zamasu vs Arceus real soon by me. Speaking of Arceus... almost forgot.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

What Promenstein said.

Destroying the Space-Time Continuum of a Room Sized Dimension is unquantifiable. High 3-A is quite rare and almost never appears. It's for 4D characters who are below Low 2-C, but still somewhat comparable, or those who destroy infinite sized physical universes

just because it's Rare doesn't mean you dismiss a feat of it specifically says 4D power below univeresal which is what destroying a planet size timespace continuum is.