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Dragon ball universe crt

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Just to clarify one thing, this new DBS map is just the observed living Universe, that's just it, it doesn't match all other realms.


According to Akira toriyama he wanted the whole macrocosm to be represented by a ball and the world of Kaioshin outside, which really makes sense with the map presented in the manga


As we can see, the map accepted by Akira toriyama is this one to present the entire macrocosm of the entire cosmos

 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Just to clarify one thing, this new DBS map is just the observed living Universe, that's just it, it doesn't match all other realms.
Click to expand...

i covered this in the op
omegabronic said:
1: this map is not consistent with dbs anime's visuals of how universes are, it is consistently shown to not look like the macrocosm map at all, so the calculations should be changed and be based on what the consistent map looks like instead of the macrocosm map, some may bring up the fact that the other dimensions of the universe like the afterlife and the kaioshin realm are not visible in the map used in the anime, for that i say:

1.1: there is nothing to say that they would be visible in the first place, the only thing that would suggest that they would is the macrocosm map and the guides, which isn't a good counter since what it is shown in the main cannon always takes priority over secondary cannon like the guides, so they not appearing is not a counter argument since they have no stated size whatsoever in the main canon of dbs, and things like guides are only secondary cannon with anything of the main cannon taking priority over it
1.2: even if you want to hard take the dimensions as needing to be visible however, we can clearly see multiple massive cosmic like objects in the map, so to say that some of them are the other dimensions is not too far fetched of an assumption, specially when we know that we are seeing the universe
Click to expand...


LuffyRuffy46307 said:
According to Akira toriyama he wanted the whole macrocosm to be represented by a ball and the world of Kaioshin outside, which really makes sense with the map presented in the manga
Click to expand...

also covered in the op
omegabronic said:
now you may be thinking, "this only applies to the dbs anime, manga stays the same as it uses the macrocosm map", well, that brings me to my second point

2: the map is clearly not in scale, and you can clearly see the map makes the snake way, which is only 1.000.000 km long, is seemingly 2x the universe in height if put in a horizontal position, also king kai's planet, which is extremely small, is via this map only 14.25x smaller than the entire living universe, so even in the manga, it shouldn't be used to calc since it is clearly out of scale in size.

Proposal for the anime: simply use the images we have of the universe showed in the anime alongside the basic assumption of the observable universe, and make estimates for the sizes of the other dimensions based on what we know of them, which is that we at least know that they have a star in them

Proposal for the db manga: i guess we can only use the basic observable universe assumption and go on from there, but i believe the logic for the other dimensions proposed above could be used as well
Click to expand...
whatever akira wants doesn't matter if it gets contradicted by the series itself

LuffyRuffy46307 said:
As we can see, the map accepted by Akira toriyama is this one to present the entire macrocosm of the entire cosmos

Click to expand...

the map is used to represent the macrocosm, it just can't be used to calc since the size is evidently out of scale in size, it is a representation and not literal to how things are size wise
 
Anyway I think that the arguments put against the globe not being used are wham either way because:
omegabronic said:
it
Click to expand...
As we discussed in the previous thread, this is actually the edge of a galaxy and not the edge of the Universe

omegabronic said:
consistently
Click to expand...
These globes are not accurate miniature versions of their respective macrocosms. The U7 macrocosm has to be bigger than a globe, to be able to house it's circular structure and the respective Kaioshin realm outside of it
 
Damage3245 said:
It's a representation but there is no reason to believe it is to scale.

Unless you think the Sacred World of the Kai is smaller than King Kai's planet?
Click to expand...
Then if the map is not to be used to scale, do you agree that the guidebook statements considering the same structures' size should be used as a replacement?

If this thread happens to be accepted, it needs to not get closed until we figure out what'll be used as a replacement
 
pineappleman said:
Anyway I think that the arguments put against the globe not being used are wham either way because:

As we discussed in the previous thread, this is actually the edge of a galaxy and not the edge of the Universe
Click to expand...
nope, that was about bulma's statement, this shot is the summonig of the super shenron currently happening between universe 6 and 7

pineappleman said:
These globes are not accurate miniature versions of their respective macrocosms. The U7 macrocosm has to be bigger than a globe, to be able to house it's circular structure and the respective Kaioshin realm outside of it
Click to expand...
it doesn't need to be bigger than a globe, we don't know how big the other dimensions like the afterlife are, plus the kaioshin realm being outside of it is something said in guides, which the main cannon in question, the dbs anime, gets priority over

to reiterate, the map of the anime is not being proposed for the manga
 
Damage3245 said:
It's a representation but there is no reason to believe it is to scale.

Unless you think the Sacred World of the Kai is smaller than King Kai's planet?
Click to expand...
oh yes, my friend, free of Akira Toriyama's map about his cosmology not to mention that the planet of the kaios is the size of a planet, but according to Akira Toriyama's guide refutes that shit there, we shouldn't worry about the visual, since universes in other verses are the sizes of planets and even galaxies, go on, my friend! I really appreciate your work lol
 
pineappleman said:
Then if the map is not to be used to scale, do you agree that the guidebook statements considering the same structures' size should be used as a replacement?

If this thread happens to be accepted, it needs to not get closed until we figure out what'll be used as a replacement
Click to expand...
there are proposals for the replacements in the op tho
 
I think the problem here is that we’re putting too much stock in old DBZ guide book materials instead of what we’re shown in more recent primary canon DBS material.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
oh yes, my friend, free of Akira Toriyama's map about his cosmology not to mention that the planet of the kaios is the size of a planet, but according to Akira Toriyama's guide refutes that shit there, we shouldn't worry about the visual, since universes in other verses are the sizes of planets and even galaxies, go on, my friend! I really appreciate your work lol
Click to expand...
I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

Stop posting in the thread if you don't intend to contribute.
 
Hasty12345 said:
I think the problem here is that we’re putting too much stock in old DBZ guide book materials instead of what we’re shown in more recent primary canon DBS material.
Click to expand...
But the guide materials are not about DBZ, but the whole cosmology itself, if you have something to suggest go ahead.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
But the guide materials are not about DBZ, but the whole cosmology itself, if you have something to suggest go ahead.
Click to expand...
DBZ is decades old, secondary canon material no longer being relevant is absolutely expected for a series like DB, especially given DBS almost exclusively focuses on new concepts never mentioned in DBZ whatsoever.
 
For clarification:
The snake way and other planets are obviously not drawn to scale, everybody knows that and they haven't been used in this calculation. The main reason for drawing the map was to make people grasp the atmosphere of the DB universe easily and that is conveyed by the relative positions of different objects and the basic structure.

Clearly, Enma's palace is in the middle surrounded by 4 Snake Ways, and Kaioshin realm is outside the ball, orbiting it. You will find that nothing inconsistent has been used to scale or determine anything here and the objects not drawn to scale have absolutely no influence on anything that is calculated here.
Click to expand...
 
Nullflowerblush said:
"Yes, the map is not drawn to scale, but the positioning of the dimensions is perfectly usable, thus we can use the universe depicted in the map as a reference for scaling."
Click to expand...
but even then, in the anime when we do see the universe from outside, it is nothing like the map
 
omegabronic said:
plus the kaioshin realm being outside of it is something said in guides, which the main cannon in question, the dbs anime, gets priority over
Click to expand...
Wrong, the DBS anime confirms the guides.
Screenshot_151.png
Screenshot_153.png
Screenshot_152.png
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
The other kingdoms are not shown :3
Click to expand...
which i covered in points 1.1 and 1.2 of the op
1.1: there is nothing to say that they would be visible in the first place, the only thing that would suggest that they would is the macrocosm map and the guides, which isn't a good counter since what it is shown in the main cannon always takes priority over secondary cannon like the guides, so they not appearing is not a counter argument since they have no stated size whatsoever in the main canon of dbs, and things like guides are only secondary cannon with anything of the main cannon taking priority over it
1.2: even if you want to hard take the dimensions as needing to be visible however, we can clearly see multiple massive cosmic like objects in the map, so to say that some of them are the other dimensions is not too far fetched of an assumption, specially when we know that we are seeing the universe

pineappleman said:
Do I really need to argue for the Kaioshin Realm being outside the macrocosm?
9e7ef6c78a9ab8caa28da447452b8fe6.png
Click to expand...
yes you do, since information from guides and WoG, which are secondary cannon, are ignored if they contradict the main canon in question, once again, this was covered in the op:

1.1: there is nothing to say that they would be visible in the first place, the only thing that would suggest that they would is the macrocosm map and the guides, which isn't a good counter since what it is shown in the main cannon always takes priority over secondary cannon like the guides, so they not appearing is not a counter argument since they have no stated size whatsoever in the main canon of dbs, and things like guides are only secondary cannon with anything of the main cannon taking priority over it
 
God900 said:
Also, seems like AKM already adressed this arguments tho:

vsbattles.fandom.com

Dragon Ball Super: Whis' Speed Feat

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
He didn’t address anything, he just made the same argument using the same contradictory belief. He’s using the map to scale the distance between two realms which are visibly shown to be disconnected. It’s a different dimension.
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
oh yes, my friend, free of Akira Toriyama's map about his cosmology not to mention that the planet of the kaios is the size of a planet, but according to Akira Toriyama's guide refutes that shit there, we shouldn't worry about the visual, since universes in other verses are the sizes of planets and even galaxies, go on, my friend! I really appreciate your work lol
Click to expand...
Akira Toriyama literally says that he whipped that up to make visualizing the world easier. Never has he said the world actually looks like that and is built like that. We visually see that its not in canon source materials.
 
God900 said:
Besides, wrong. We still use guidebooks and external info/sources for DB anyways....

Where do you think the Super Saiyan multiplier comes from?
Click to expand...
Akira Toriyama confirms this multiplier himself. Why do you think we don’t use ssj2 multiplier and ssj3?
 
God900 said:
Besides, wrong. We still use guidebooks and external info/sources for DB anyways....

Where do you think the Super Saiyan multiplier comes from?
Click to expand...
"Databooks are secondary canon anyway. The original source material typically outranks them."

the super sayan multiplier is consistent with the show, if it was guide only with no evidence from the show, aka freeza's percentages of power and kaioken multipliers, if it was only guide statements we wouldn't have used it, that is why ss2 and 3s multipliers are not used
 
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