- 12,451
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- #81
stop the derailing
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Dragon ball universe crt
- Thread starter Omegabronic
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- 12,252
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Just to clarify one thing, this new DBS map is just the observed living Universe, that's just it, it doesn't match all other realms.
According to Akira toriyama he wanted the whole macrocosm to be represented by a ball and the world of Kaioshin outside, which really makes sense with the map presented in the manga
As we can see, the map accepted by Akira toriyama is this one to present the entire macrocosm of the entire cosmos
According to Akira toriyama he wanted the whole macrocosm to be represented by a ball and the world of Kaioshin outside, which really makes sense with the map presented in the manga
As we can see, the map accepted by Akira toriyama is this one to present the entire macrocosm of the entire cosmos
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It's a representation but there is no reason to believe it is to scale.
Unless you think the Sacred World of the Kai is smaller than King Kai's planet?
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,852
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Kek.
But again, not the topic. The map is not drawn to scale, meaning that calculations based off of the map are invalid.
Oh, and anime ≠ manga.
- 12,451
- 4,476
- Thread starter
- #85
i covered this in the op
also covered in the op
whatever akira wants doesn't matter if it gets contradicted by the series itself
the map is used to represent the macrocosm, it just can't be used to calc since the size is evidently out of scale in size, it is a representation and not literal to how things are size wise
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Anyway I think that the arguments put against the globe not being used are wham either way because:
As we discussed in the previous thread, this is actually the edge of a galaxy and not the edge of the Universe
These globes are not accurate miniature versions of their respective macrocosms. The U7 macrocosm has to be bigger than a globe, to be able to house it's circular structure and the respective Kaioshin realm outside of it
Nullflowerblush
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Then if the map is not to be used to scale, do you agree that the guidebook statements considering the same structures' size should be used as a replacement?
If this thread happens to be accepted, it needs to not get closed until we figure out what'll be used as a replacement
- 12,451
- 4,476
- Thread starter
- #89
nope, that was about bulma's statement, this shot is the summonig of the super shenron currently happening between universe 6 and 7
it doesn't need to be bigger than a globe, we don't know how big the other dimensions like the afterlife are, plus the kaioshin realm being outside of it is something said in guides, which the main cannon in question, the dbs anime, gets priority over
to reiterate, the map of the anime is not being proposed for the manga
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oh yes, my friend, free of Akira Toriyama's map about his cosmology not to mention that the planet of the kaios is the size of a planet, but according to Akira Toriyama's guide refutes that shit there, we shouldn't worry about the visual, since universes in other verses are the sizes of planets and even galaxies, go on, my friend! I really appreciate your work lol
Nullflowerblush
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- 12,451
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- Thread starter
- #92
there are proposals for the replacements in the op tho
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,350
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I think the problem here is that we’re putting too much stock in old DBZ guide book materials instead of what we’re shown in more recent primary canon DBS material.
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I don't even know what you're trying to say here.
Stop posting in the thread if you don't intend to contribute.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,852
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Honestly, what if we just disregarded the databooks on the Wiki entirely?
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Databooks are secondary canon anyway. The original source material typically outranks them.
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Also, seems like AKM already adressed this arguments tho:
Dragon Ball Super: Whis' Speed Feat
vsbattles.fandom.com
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But the guide materials are not about DBZ, but the whole cosmology itself, if you have something to suggest go ahead.
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I think we should call AKM here, since it created this rule imposed on the verse, including the one that updated the entire cosmology.Also, seems like AKM already adressed this arguments tho:
Dragon Ball Super: Whis' Speed Feat
- 12,451
- 4,476
- Thread starter
- #101
where does that address the argument?Also, seems like AKM already adressed this arguments tho:
Dragon Ball Super: Whis' Speed Feat
he said that he has no interest in db threads anymore
Hasty12345
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DBZ is decades old, secondary canon material no longer being relevant is absolutely expected for a series like DB, especially given DBS almost exclusively focuses on new concepts never mentioned in DBZ whatsoever.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,852
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"Yes, the map is not drawn to scale, but the positioning of the dimensions is perfectly usable, thus we can use the universe depicted in the map as a reference for scaling."Also, seems like AKM already adressed this arguments tho:
Dragon Ball Super: Whis' Speed Feat
Nullflowerblush
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For clarification:
- 12,451
- 4,476
- Thread starter
- #105
but even then, in the anime when we do see the universe from outside, it is nothing like the map
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We have never seen the entire macrocosm from the outside, bar the DBS manga which confirms the map.
- 12,451
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- Thread starter
- #108
how does that confirm anything from the guides?Wrong, the DBS anime confirms the guides.
see point 2 of the op for that, even then we do see the universe from the outside, the images are in the op
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Omega, can you give me the episodes for both of the scans you used?
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That image you quoted is just the observable Universe, nothing from the other realms.
- 12,451
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- Thread starter
- #111
episode 28 of dbs
episode 55 of dbs
episode 41 of dbs
what is your proof for this?
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The other kingdoms are not shown :3
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interesting pointDo I really need to argue for the Kaioshin Realm being outside the macrocosm?
- 12,451
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- Thread starter
- #115
which i covered in points 1.1 and 1.2 of the op
1.1: there is nothing to say that they would be visible in the first place, the only thing that would suggest that they would is the macrocosm map and the guides, which isn't a good counter since what it is shown in the main cannon always takes priority over secondary cannon like the guides, so they not appearing is not a counter argument since they have no stated size whatsoever in the main canon of dbs, and things like guides are only secondary cannon with anything of the main cannon taking priority over it
1.2: even if you want to hard take the dimensions as needing to be visible however, we can clearly see multiple massive cosmic like objects in the map, so to say that some of them are the other dimensions is not too far fetched of an assumption, specially when we know that we are seeing the universe
yes you do, since information from guides and WoG, which are secondary cannon, are ignored if they contradict the main canon in question, once again, this was covered in the op:Do I really need to argue for the Kaioshin Realm being outside the macrocosm?
1.1: there is nothing to say that they would be visible in the first place, the only thing that would suggest that they would is the macrocosm map and the guides, which isn't a good counter since what it is shown in the main cannon always takes priority over secondary cannon like the guides, so they not appearing is not a counter argument since they have no stated size whatsoever in the main canon of dbs, and things like guides are only secondary cannon with anything of the main cannon taking priority over it
Nullflowerblush
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In direct reference to the currently-contest diagram of the universe... from 2009.Do I really need to argue for the Kaioshin Realm being outside the macrocosm?
Hey, isn't this the "Super Saiyan 2 is 2x as powerful as Super Saiyan, and Super Saiyan 4x" guidebook?
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I agree with the OP's proposals.
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He didn’t address anything, he just made the same argument using the same contradictory belief. He’s using the map to scale the distance between two realms which are visibly shown to be disconnected. It’s a different dimension.Also, seems like AKM already adressed this arguments tho:
Dragon Ball Super: Whis' Speed Feat
Akira Toriyama literally says that he whipped that up to make visualizing the world easier. Never has he said the world actually looks like that and is built like that. We visually see that its not in canon source materials.
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Akira Toriyama confirms this multiplier himself. Why do you think we don’t use ssj2 multiplier and ssj3?
- 12,451
- 4,476
- Thread starter
- #120
"Databooks are secondary canon anyway. The original source material typically outranks them."
the super sayan multiplier is consistent with the show, if it was guide only with no evidence from the show, aka freeza's percentages of power and kaioken multipliers, if it was only guide statements we wouldn't have used it, that is why ss2 and 3s multipliers are not used
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