Dragon Ball Super Speed Downgrade? Or Upgrade???

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

This will be a minor downgrade on one or two characters.

ACCEPTED SPEED​

• This blog is currently used as justification for Piccolo's and Frost's speed based on a feat performed by Piccolo.
• This is the feat in question.
• Explaining: Basically at the end of Ch. 51, a spaceship flies towards Earth, and by the start of Ch. 52, it gets there. The calc argues that it took a short amount of time to get from a habitable planet to Earth, arguing three ends; 60 minutes, 30 minutes and 10 minutes. Piccolo later reacts to that ship at max speed, thus scaling to the full value. Calc doesn't justify these ends. Calc uses the closest planet outside of the solar system for the distance.

OKAY, WHY IS THAT A PROBLEM?​

• As I said, there is no justification for these ends.​
• The distance used is extremely low balled, to the point of being ridiculous.​
• There is an objectively correct end: Chapter 52 states that A FEW DAYS HAD PASSED BETWEEN THE EVENTS OF CH. 51 AND THE LATTER HALF OF CH. 52.​

This should be removed and re-calced.

A suggestion for the distance: Since they're leaving a planet close to a "Saturn-like" planet, we can use that instead. The closest known exoplanet with a ring system similar to Saturn is J1407b, also known as Super-Saturn. The planet is located approximately 434 light-years from Earth.

A few days = 3 days or 259200 seconds.
434ly = 4.106e18 meters
Speed = 4.106e18/259200 = 52840.05c

Slight upgrade.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Bump. Some input please.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I agree! You should have posted in the general thread for DB.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I don't agree with downgrades, so I'll remain neutral until I see a comment from one speed and calculations expert

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I don't agree with downgrades, so I'll remain neutral until I see a comment from one speed and calculations expert

If you admit to being biased, you are not wanted here.

Also this is an upgrade, the timeframe is objectively incorrect.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I don't agree with downgrades, so I'll remain neutral until I see a comment from one speed and calculations expert

Spoiler

Anyways looks reasonable.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Anyways downgrade looks reasonable.

It's technically an upgrade since I argue for a longer distance that more-than-compensates for the much longer timeframe.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

It's technically an upgrade since I argue for a longer distance that more-than-compensates for the much longer timeframe.

Ya that's why changed my message to reflect it better

 

[KingNanaya]

as a very biased DB hater, I agree

 

[MusicRelaxing]

I hate this. I agree.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I don't agree with downgrades, so I'll remain neutral until I see a comment from one speed and calculations expert

Luffy.. cmon bruh..



Anyways, OP looks fine since it’s stated to be a few days.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Luffy.. cmon bruh..



Anyways, OP looks fine since it’s stated to be a few days.

What do you think about the distance?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't agree with downgrades, so I'll remain neutral until I see a comment from one speed and calculations expert

Admitting that you only agree with upgrades reveals that you’re biased and makes you less credible

This is an upgrade anyway

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

What do you think about the distance?

A suggestion for the distance: Since they're leaving a planet close to a "Saturn-like" planet, we can use that instead. The closest known exoplanet with a ring system similar to Saturn is J1407b, also known as Super-Saturn. The planet is located approximately 434 light-years from Earth.

Reasoning makes sense to me.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also I agree with the OP, but this should honestly probably be a Calc Group Discussion Thread

 

[Enigmatic_Rurouni]

Neutral atm. I will say, I’m glad that the speed for the Super(manga) is getting talked about. That blog needs a big update. Hell I don’t even think the Gas flying through space feat is added yet.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I don't agree with downgrades, so I'll remain neutral until I see a comment from one speed and calculations expert

Also I agree with the OP, but this should honestly probably be a Calc Group Discussion Thread

If you admit to being biased, you are not wanted here.

Also this is an upgrade, the timeframe is objectively incorrect.

Luffy.. cmon bruh..



Anyways, OP looks fine since it’s stated to be a few days.

Spoiler

Anyways looks reasonable.

I literally just said I wanted to see a calculation specialist before giving my opinion, no big deal here.

 

[CloverDragon03]

"I don't agree with downgrades"

 

[Cass5373]

I agree with the update and I think there should be more scrutiny on the speed of the DBS manga since I think it is very outdated.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

"I don't agree with downgrades"

Yes, but did you read the rest? I don't understand calculations, that's why I said I would be neutral in something about calculations

But you don't need to attack me just because you didn't like something like that at the beginning of the sentence, it's a sentence like any other.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

But I'll be blunt, this actually looks good, as a calc member gave a brief comment on.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yes, but did you read the rest? I don't understand calculations, that's why I said I would be neutral in something about calculations

But you don't need to attack me just because you didn't like something like that at the beginning of the sentence, it's a sentence like any other.

Fair enough, apologies

Anyways, I'd like to request that this be moved to Calc Group Discussion, as this concerns the validity of a calc and the proposition of a new one to take its place

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Looks fine

 

[Padaruyos]

Looks fine

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Fair enough, apologies

Anyways, I'd like to request that this be moved to Calc Group Discussion, as this concerns the validity of a calc and the proposition of a new one to take its place

Done

 

[Killerdrone123]

Looks good I agree

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think the calc should be used at all.

Just because there is a solar system IRL that has a Saturn-like planet 434ly away doesn't mean that the distance in the manga is necessarily anything like that at all.

The speed scaling blog is flawed anyway because it's taking Moro arc Piccolo and backscaling him all the way to the Universe 6 arc.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

That's how we measure most stuff like that. Throwing away a feat due to that isn't a valid argument except If we have valid proof the universe is totally different. The DB universe has enough similarities to count like the moon existing and being the same like ours. No comment about the rest of your argument.

I don't think the calc should be used at all.

Just because there is a solar system IRL that has a Saturn-like planet 434ly away doesn't mean that the distance in the manga is necessarily anything like that at all.

The speed scaling blog is flawed anyway because it's taking Moro arc Piccolo and backscaling him all the way to the Universe 6 arc.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I find the idea of discarding the calc entirely to be nonsensical, largely for Serlock's reasons. It's not wrong to reason things like this in the absence of more concrete stuff

 

[Damage3245]

The planet in the manga doesn't resemble this "Super-Saturn" in any way though going by the artist's depiction of it here. There is no reason given to us to think that they're meant to be remotely the same and that therefore the distance is intended to be 434 lightyears.

This is not like the case of "The artist drew a two storey building, so we can assume the height of an IRL two storey building here." Here, there is nothing solidly indicating a distance of 434 lightyears. It's too big of an assumption for me to accept here.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Then we can either use it as a low end or find a similar Saturn like planet. From what I got from the op this is the closest planet that even exhibits those properties so whatever planet is taken would be even further than that and thus the calc being proposed is a lowball. Like someone kicking a metal door open and going with the softest metal possible.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Again, it's a matter of being the closest depiction of the planet in question (that being the closest ringed exoplanet). Using regular Saturn doesn't make sense, for instance, because this is well beyond our Solar System (hence why we're using an exoplanet). Also, the argument of authorial intent doesn't make sense to me in cases like this, where the intent is way too ambiguous to say one way or another, so I wouldn't consider this

There is no reason given to us to think that they're meant to be remotely the same and that therefore the distance is intended to be 434 lightyears.

to be a valid counterargument.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not saying you have to agree with me that it is too big of an assumption. If it's fine for you, that's fine. I'm saying it's too big of an assumption for me so I'm voting against it.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I'm not saying you have to agree with me that it is too big of an assumption. If it's fine for you, that's fine. I'm saying it's too big of an assumption for me so I'm voting against it.

That's fair enough. May you tag some people to give their input so that an outcome may be reached sooner rather than later?

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Just because there is a solar system IRL that has a Saturn-like planet 434ly away doesn't mean that the distance in the manga is necessarily anything like that at all.

This is the most viable distance we can use, we know for a fact the DB Universe is inspired by our universe and it's solar system is near identical to ours. We can prove that with several examples. Using an IRL distance that's still a low ball btw is beyond fair, and unless you can provide an alternative or satisfy your burden of proof, I don't think your input is fair.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out that, the planets don't have to be similar if we use the shortest distance possible. Just like the original calc used the closest planet we have IRL, even though it looks nothing like it.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

There is no reason given to us to think that they're meant to be remotely the same and that therefore the distance is intended to be 434 lightyears.

There is nothing solidly indicating a distance of 434 lightyears.

The problem with your argument is that I'm not arguing that 434 light-years is the intended distance, you're arguing a strawman. What I presented is the shorter distance possible given there is a ringed-exoplanet where they originally left. 434 light-years is a low ball, not an attempt to depict the author's intent which might be far greater than that given Dragon Ball has technology to cross intergalactic distances in days.

You cannot act like "DB's universe might have a ringed exoplanet that is closer than that" is a proper rebuttal, it is not. The same could be said about it being much further away.

 

[Damage3245]

This is the most viable distance we can use, we know for a fact the DB Universe is inspired by our universe and it's solar system is near identical to ours. We can prove that with several examples. Using an IRL distance that's still a low ball btw is beyond fair, and unless you can provide an alternative or satisfy your burden of proof, I don't think your input is fair.

That's your opinion, sure. In my view this distance is just a baseless assumption so I don't see why it would be a reasonable basis for the speed ratings of the characters.

While there are times in calculations where we do have to make reasonable assumptions for them to work, this doesn't count as one as far as I can tell. There is no higher merit to this value than saying it might as well be 200 lightyears or 1000 lightyears. I just don't accept this proposal, sorry. Instead of trying to argue that my input isn't valid, just see if other Calc Group Members do think it can be used.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

That's your opinion, sure. In my view this distance is just a baseless assumption so I don't see why it would be a reasonable basis for the speed ratings of the characters.

While I don't think opinions can be wrong, they can have incorrect information,

It's not baseless, the base of it is stated loud and clear for everyone to see. The shortest distance we can use is the closest planet with the same characteristics in our universe, because it's either "as far as it is", or "further away", unless we can prove the opposite for that specific verse. That's how ambiguous space travel has been calced since always. We have no shorter distance that makes an ounce of sense in this scenario.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I agree with the update and I think there should be more scrutiny on the speed of the DBS manga since I think it is very outdated.

I think the scaling is fine except Piccolo and Frost.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Bump.