Dragon Ball Super Ep 67 Revisions

[Antvasima]

In another thread it was brought up that Zamasu should be upgraded to Low 2-C, due to ascending past his physical form in DBS episode 67.

I watched the episode, and personally did not have the impression that Zamasu was explicitly stated to do anything beyond becoming one with the physical space of the universe.

In addition, if he had become one with all of space-time, Whis would not have stated that travelling to the past of that timeline had any effect in undoing his actions.

Please note that this is a staff only thread.

 

[KamiYasha]

I watched the episode, and personally did not have the impression that Zamasu was explicitly stated to do anything beyond becoming one with the physical space of the universe.

Same here.

and about Zeno discusión...

(Survived in a null void after he destroyed the multiverse)
Thats pure speculation. After he blasted Zamasu he was just hanging around... god knows where. Zeno has a super childish actitude i wouldn't be surprise if he after having destroyed the Universe/Zamasu was just playing around in the rubble of the universe.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I know i'm not staff so i'll just leave the one comment, but I feel its really important to note Zamasu was leeching into other timelines "the past" already, implying it was time as well as space, so even other timelines outside that one were being influenced.

As well Zeno felt the need to erase the timeline, not just that point in time in the Universe, which further implies he had infected the entire thing, if not there would be no need to erase everything.

Whis states that he could possibly go to a point in time where the future was not ruined, but that could simply mean an alternate branch of the timelines before they split off, or even another timeline altogether, such as maybe the one Beerus made.

In the end I think there is ample proof for him effecting both time and space on a Universal scale, and with potential to grow even further, as he was beginning to invade other timelines.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I actually have to agree with Ryu on this one. He was spreading to other timelines. Though I watched the raw episode, so I had no idea what was said when that was happening.

 

[Ryukama]

I as well, think that other Ryu is saying seems to make sense.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it was not explicitly spelled out, but I suppose that a "At least 3-A (Became one with the universe). Possibly Low 2-C (Started to affect other timelines)" might be acceptable.

 

[Ryukama]

Ehh I'm not so sure about the "potentially higher."

However personally I agree with plain Low 2-C since they state he was becoming one with the universe and its order, then show his presence being spread to other timelines. Which seems to me to be sufficient enough.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it is uncertain, as it isn't explicitly spelled out, but I suppose that a plain "Possibly Low 2-C" might be okay.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I would be fine with "Possibly Low 2-C" added on to bodiless Zamasu.

Also, I know I'm late to this party, but I assume the downgrade this episode gives Zen'o has already been discussed?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. I have adjusted Zen'o's page accordingly, by getting rid of the "At least".

So, who wants to change the Fusion Zamasu page?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I can do so, though I'd like to know if we're going "At least 3-A, possibly Low 2-C" or just "Possibly Low 2-C". Also, what would the new key be titled?

 

[Antvasima]

Just "Possibly Low 2-C", I think.

Maybe "Incorporeal Form"?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It is fairly obvious that Zamasu's feat is Low 2-C. He was becoming one with the universe, and his form was leaking into other points in time, like the U7 Present.

To do that one must become one with the Space-Time Continuum, which is Low 2-C.

Infinite Speed Zeno is debatable, because in the same scene he destroyed all existence, Goku and Trunks were around in that void as well. But Dragon Ball doesn't and never followed science, and we can chalk that up to an outlier / pis event for the Saiyans.

I understand that Dragon Ball Super causes a lot of headaches to the Wikia, specially since every single time there's even the slightest feat or statement, a huge number of avatarless fanboys seem to appear demanding that we place all the characters at significantly, stupidly higher levels than they deserve, and starting whining about how biased we are once we don't agree. It's annoying. I hate it too.

But a feat is a feat, and what Zamasu did is a Low 2-C Feat.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Yeah this is a very blunt Low 2-C feat. So I agree to these terms.

 

[Antoniofer]

I would agree with Low 2-C in durability since is needed to destroy the Universe/Multiverse in order to kill him, but should remain 3-A potentially High 3-A in AP, isn't necesary stronger than his physical form, is just that he has greater range, and was capable of expand his presence around the timeline(s)

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It isn't. He was becoming one with the universe and leeking into other points in the timeline as well. It's fairly obvious what that means. He would have become one with the space-time continuum.

 

[Antoniofer]

Theorically, he could have become one with the time High 3-A and possibly even Low 2-C overtime, but his power doesn't seems to have changed that much, he just obtained Omniprescent and Universal potentially Multiuniversal range. Other thing is that, at the time that Zenó destroyed the multiverse, he wasn't Low 2-C, since the time in the multiverse remain unaltered, otherwise shouldn't be possible to travel back in time.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Yeah, as mentioned in the last thread, this is a pretty blunt Low 2-C feat, so I agree with putting "Immortal Soul" Zamasu at Low 2-C.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew Well, I suppose that just plain Low 2-C should be fine then.

Btw: I adjusted Zen'o's profile regarding that there isn't just one of him for all the timelines.

 

[RadicalMrR]

I gotta ask moving in a realm where space time was destroyed means what for speed?

Also Whis can apparently time travel.

 

[Antoniofer]

I gotta ask moving in a realm where space time was destroyed means what for speed?
Also Whis can apparently time travel.

Doesn't appears that the time were destroyed there, a time passed between the return to standard timeline and back to the destroyed timeline, also, anyone there were able to move. Not sure why people where able to talk or breath in there tho, that hasn't much sense...

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Antoniofer. It should not affect Goku's, or Zen'o's speeds.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Alright. Zeno stays MFTL+, but it should get a slight upgrade. His Multiverse destroying blast was calced at 3 Quintillion c or so

 

[Antoniofer]

I actually think than that is more a range thing than a speed one, there no exact timeframe nor distance.

EDIT: Sorry for the random letter from few minutes ago, I was in a haircut and my cousin take my computer. Also, it seems like the "no title" glitch affected the thread.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Okay, since most people agree with Low 2-C Zamasu, can the profile be updated?

 

[Dark649]

I agree as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Feel free to do so.

 

[LordXcano]

As for Zen'o, why wouldn't his speed be upgraded? Even without this feat we know he's destroyed 6 universes prior, which would require one of two things.

• He was outside of those universes when he destroyed them, therefore outside of space-time

• He was inside the universe when he destroyed them, and therefore survived in an area without space-time

Given that he killed Zamasu we know his blasts are capable of destroying space-time, so he must've survived in areas without it prior.

 

[Antoniofer]

The time still remaining after Zen'o destroyed the universe/multiverse, the time passed and Goku and Zen'o moved and talked normally, without mentioning that the machine still working normally; there's nothing that suggest that the time were erased there.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Is it even possible to destroy the multiverse without destroying time?

Also Goku and Trunks are outliers.

 

[Antoniofer]

destroying an standard multiverse would require 4-D power, but the issue about if this multiverse share the 3-D space is still in debating; and even if is comfirmed that universes has his own time, the scene in question suggest that the time still existing there.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, there seem to be 3 main points counting against it:

• The time machine could still reach Zen'o.
• Goku moved and talked normally.
• Whis said that the time machine could reach earlier in the timeline to before Zamasu started his plan.

In addition, was it even stated that time was destroyed?

 

[LordXcano]

The time still remaining after Zen'o destroyed the universe/multiverse, the time passed and Goku and Zen'o moved and talked normally, without mentioning that the machine still working normally; there's nothing that suggest that the time were erased there.

Had time not been erased Zamasu would've still been alive. The fact people were interacting and such is just a narrative convention that's required for, well, a story to progress. You can't really have a story without "time" because then we wouldn't know what was going on. Even in more accurate depictions of dimensions without time we still see things progress linearly.

See: Dark Dimension in MCU Doctor Strange, Eye Dimension in 8BT, every fight in Demonbane

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that LordXcano has a point.

 

[Antoniofer]

I watched the episode in spanish sub, at least there nothing suggest that the time were deleted... Without space being deleted, the Zamasu durability would be High 3-A at most, so I would need the proof that said that time was deleted, since episode suggest otherwise...

 

[Antvasima]

I am currently ambivalent about the issue. Zen'o may in fact qualify for infinite speed, but Goku should be considered as an outlier.

 

[RadicalMrR]

I agree with Xcano.

The fact that things function normally is PIS, if time-space worked the same in fiction as they do in real life there would be no story.

An example of this literally anyone has a conversation in space, they need to advance the plot but have to go against the fundamental laws of physics to do so.

 

[Antoniofer]

The issue isn't Goku: Vegeta, Trunks, even Bulma could have traveled to the destroyed future and still would have moved as normally as in earth, and any other device could have worked there; the issue is that people is assuming time deleted when hasn't been stated nor the scenes suggest that.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Antoniofer from what I know, the evidence stems from him spreading through even other timelines (Like the Current Universe 7), which would require Zamasu to be Low 2-C at least. (Since technically he would have potentially become 2-C from crossing over through two time-space continuums, though he never finished with Current Universe 7)

 

[Grudgeman1706]

I feel like with dragon ball we should rely less on speculation and what ifs, and take what has been concretely said and given to us. While what xcano said does makes sense. What Antoifier also commented does seem to make the greater point. No one in the dragon ball said let alone even mention he was affecting the time stream, Alos if they were in erase time, how was Goku able to return to Zeno if their was no future?. The episode was also very clear it was more universeal level that zamasu was pitneially reaching.

The most I see is him reaching potentially low 2-C since he didn't spread his influence across the universe yet but eventually he would.