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@Grudge he had already spread through the universe as shown by the fact that he had began to spread through the other timeline as well
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Dragon Ball Super Ep 67 Revisions
- Thread starter Antvasima
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He was already spreaded in that universe and barely researched the other timeline, but nothing suggest that is need to destroy the time in order to destroy him, and as I said and @Grudge pointed out, he Goku were able to travel back in time means that the time still existing there, due that in theory, with a deleted tieline that wouldn't be possible. The "Zamazu becoms one with the time-space with the universe/multiverse" is just an assumption, if Zen'o would have infinite speed that could have been mentioned or if that void hasn't time
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"researched the other timeline"?
Well, logically to kill a guy who has become one with the universe, you would have to kill the universe in the process. Unless he split Zamasu and the universe, though that's completely speculation.
Well, we don't exactly know how the coordinating system of the Time Machine works, as it doesn't just travel back in time but also travels between timelines. Instead of assuming that it works by only traveling between the past and future and thus can only go where time exists, (Which contradicts what is shown) wouldn't it be more realistic to understand the machine as its shown, in which it acts on a multi-universal coordinate plane, in which the coordinates of the Future Timeline simply leads to the void as its been destroyed? (Not sure if worded this right)
Well, logically to kill a guy who has become one with the universe, you would have to kill the universe in the process. Unless he split Zamasu and the universe, though that's completely speculation.
Well, we don't exactly know how the coordinating system of the Time Machine works, as it doesn't just travel back in time but also travels between timelines. Instead of assuming that it works by only traveling between the past and future and thus can only go where time exists, (Which contradicts what is shown) wouldn't it be more realistic to understand the machine as its shown, in which it acts on a multi-universal coordinate plane, in which the coordinates of the Future Timeline simply leads to the void as its been destroyed? (Not sure if worded this right)
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If the machine could work that complicated pretty sure it would be explained, we known that the machine can travel from timeline to timeline, but if the "void" would have been that different with lacks of time, most likely that would have been noticed out. Any other argument about time being erased is just speculation, and even with little proofs, most likely the time there remain unaltered; so better to wait for an explain, before just giving someone infinite speed when nothing suggest/justify that.
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The fact people could go to the timeline is PIS. If they could not there would be no story.
Also it has been stated that Zeno can wipe out all of existence so unless he also kills himself he should survive in a timeless void, before saying he can't if he couldn't we wouldn't rate him what we do now.
Also it has been stated that Zeno can wipe out all of existence so unless he also kills himself he should survive in a timeless void, before saying he can't if he couldn't we wouldn't rate him what we do now.
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If were stated that people can exist, move or talk in this void or if there any record of someone dying in the void, Goku or anyone that was able to move there without any explication would be indeed PIS; but since hasn't never been mentioned something like that, there's no reason to assume that no one but Zen'o can't move/talk/exist there. PIS? compared with what? no one hasn't been in that kind of situation before, there's no point of reference...
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Antoniofer, is your reply towards me? If so, I don't understand your argument, at least, the reasoning behind it as it defeats itself and would make a lot of verses have unknown stats.
"If the machine could work that complicated pretty sure it would be explained,"
Simply because they don't flat out explain it when it's shown doesn't mean anything. Or are we to begin downgrading say, Arceus to At least Low 2-C since they don't exactly explain how Arceus controls all of the Pokemon verses?
"but if the "void" would have been that different with lacks of time, most likely that would have been noticed out."
This is most likely PIS, as even if we assume he didn't destroy time, Goku shouldn't be able to breathe/ talk / most of the other arguments against time being destroyed.
If anything, the fact the background is a completely different color than how space is normally depicted, suggests that this is something different than simply destruction of the universe.
"Any other argument about time being erased is just speculation, and even with little proofs, most likely the time there remain unaltered; so better to wait for an explain, before just giving someone infinite speed when nothing suggest/justify that."
Actually, its based on one, primary fact. Zamasu becoming one with the universe and spreading throughout timelines. The only speculation and assumption here without any basis is that Zeno did not destroy the timeline in which Zamasu was in, in which case Zamasu would have to still be alive despite being quite blatantly, dead for good.
"If the machine could work that complicated pretty sure it would be explained,"
Simply because they don't flat out explain it when it's shown doesn't mean anything. Or are we to begin downgrading say, Arceus to At least Low 2-C since they don't exactly explain how Arceus controls all of the Pokemon verses?
"but if the "void" would have been that different with lacks of time, most likely that would have been noticed out."
This is most likely PIS, as even if we assume he didn't destroy time, Goku shouldn't be able to breathe/ talk / most of the other arguments against time being destroyed.
If anything, the fact the background is a completely different color than how space is normally depicted, suggests that this is something different than simply destruction of the universe.
"Any other argument about time being erased is just speculation, and even with little proofs, most likely the time there remain unaltered; so better to wait for an explain, before just giving someone infinite speed when nothing suggest/justify that."
Actually, its based on one, primary fact. Zamasu becoming one with the universe and spreading throughout timelines. The only speculation and assumption here without any basis is that Zeno did not destroy the timeline in which Zamasu was in, in which case Zamasu would have to still be alive despite being quite blatantly, dead for good.
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@Ant. Au revoir, mon amie
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Given what SD and Xcano have said, along with the fact that Zen'ō has been stated to destroy timeline/universes in the past and most likely functioned within their voids, I am fine with giving him and only him Infinite Speed.
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I too am fine with giving only Zeno Infinite speed.
If not definitely Infinite, likely or possibly Infinite.
If not definitely Infinite, likely or possibly Infinite.
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Just want to say take care Ant
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Now that I'm thinking more and more on it, it seems like a lot more characters should have infinite speed for doing what Zen'ō did... like, for several characters that reset/recreated a universe
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It looks like the thread has been resolved so could some one update the Omni Kings profile?
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Infinite Speed was accepted?
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Well the only one really against it is Antonio.
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Is too many speculation, that's the reason why I'm opposed to it, why just not wait for more info instead of upgrading based in a theory? Is this is contradicted later people will say that is PIS rather than said that the theory is wrong...
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@Antonio To quote SD
"Actually, its based on one, primary fact. Zamasu becoming one with the universe and spreading throughout timelines. The only speculation and assumption here without any basis is that Zeno did not destroy the timeline in which Zamasu was in, in which case Zamasu would have to still be alive despite being quite blatantly, dead for good."
So no we aren't speculating.
"Actually, its based on one, primary fact. Zamasu becoming one with the universe and spreading throughout timelines. The only speculation and assumption here without any basis is that Zeno did not destroy the timeline in which Zamasu was in, in which case Zamasu would have to still be alive despite being quite blatantly, dead for good."
So no we aren't speculating.
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I personally want to wait for evidence and not rely on a semi loose theory, DBS usually says something when describing a huge feat like when they repeated multiple, this feat to me from what is implied isn't something bigger than universe. Like hear me out, based on what is shown and said, and the abilities zamasu has. I believe after zamasu began spreading his influence across the universe in the present, he used the power of the time rings to open a hole in space time to spread his influence even more.
My evidence comes from the fact that trunks and i believe pilaf who stated that zamasu was opening a hole from the alternate timeline he same way Goku black cane to the alternate timeline the first time.
However as we are shown he wasn't able to enter the alternate time line to spread his influence even more because Zeno kills him.
To me this makes more sense, considering one, Goku and the others were able to return to that timeline, and two not a single person mentioned the idea that the time line was destroyed.
We know zamasu is capable of going to the alternate timelines with the time ring. What's wrong with thinking maybe he forced to spread his influence to the other timelines.
We shouldn't be to hasty to upgrade zamasu and Zeno without more concrete evidence and rely less on speculated theory's.
My evidence comes from the fact that trunks and i believe pilaf who stated that zamasu was opening a hole from the alternate timeline he same way Goku black cane to the alternate timeline the first time.
However as we are shown he wasn't able to enter the alternate time line to spread his influence even more because Zeno kills him.
To me this makes more sense, considering one, Goku and the others were able to return to that timeline, and two not a single person mentioned the idea that the time line was destroyed.
We know zamasu is capable of going to the alternate timelines with the time ring. What's wrong with thinking maybe he forced to spread his influence to the other timelines.
We shouldn't be to hasty to upgrade zamasu and Zeno without more concrete evidence and rely less on speculated theory's.
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Zamasu being the time itself still being speculation/theory, and spreading his presence in other timeline doesn't qualify as Universal+ durability (has been other characters that has done that). Also, there are evidence that show that the time weren't erased and than that void has any effect above the time. Maybe what I'm saying is speculation, but hasn't less sense than what you are saying, again, I suggest to leave Zen'o how he currently is until something else show up
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@Grudge Umm...aren't you speculating yourself?
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Yes a little, however I did bring out two or three pieces of evidences on my point so it's not complete speculation.RadicalMrR said:
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There is one other possibility.
Destruction of Zamasu's Concept
Of course, it does go in the theory category but has little to no inconsistencies. It would explain how Zamasu was destroyed without destroying the timeline itself. It would mean that while Zeno doesn't have Infinite Speed, he would have a highly advanced form of Destruction, being able to destroy a being scatter among space and time.
@Grudge, the Time Ring was
A- No longer in Zamasu's possession.
B- It followed the Time Machine in order to travel timelines I believe.
@Everyone
All in all, the inconsistencies are really big with either side in the case of whether or not Zeno destroyed the timeline. But what is blatant is that Zamasu should be Low 2-C.
So here is what I suggest:
Zeno:
Destruction of Zamasu's Concept
Of course, it does go in the theory category but has little to no inconsistencies. It would explain how Zamasu was destroyed without destroying the timeline itself. It would mean that while Zeno doesn't have Infinite Speed, he would have a highly advanced form of Destruction, being able to destroy a being scatter among space and time.
@Grudge, the Time Ring was
A- No longer in Zamasu's possession.
B- It followed the Time Machine in order to travel timelines I believe.
@Everyone
All in all, the inconsistencies are really big with either side in the case of whether or not Zeno destroyed the timeline. But what is blatant is that Zamasu should be Low 2-C.
So here is what I suggest:
Zeno:
- Speed: Possibly Infinite
- Powers And Abilities: Possibly High level Concept Destruction (<Though I personally believe this theory should not be incorporated)
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@Antonio to become the universe you have to become time and space and its not speculating since they both showed and said it.
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"Become one with the Universe" could vary depending of the franchise, like conecting to minds, matter and even time; however, they didn't say that he become time and what was show doesn't support that theory.
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@Antonio
Additionally I already mentioned this, but the fact that he was spreading through timelines suggests that this was on a multi-timeline scale
EDIT Misread Giygas description as well as Ness'
Additionally I already mentioned this, but the fact that he was spreading through timelines suggests that this was on a multi-timeline scale
EDIT Misread Giygas description as well as Ness'
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We already rate him Low 2-C for becoming the universe and to do that he had to also become time.
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Spreading his presence in other timelines isn't a reason for have Low 2-C durability, that is just enhanced Omnipresent (Omnilock I think is called), there's other characters with that ability and aren't rated in that way. People just think that Zen'o destroyed time cuz they think that Zamasu was time, and that weren't stated and evidence show otherwise.
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Normally you would be right, but it's how he became Omnipresent that made him have Low 2-C dura (Becoming one with the universe etc)
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Well I don't really know what to say since you disagree with Zamasu having Low 2-C durability.
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Actually, there's more possibilities of Zamazu being Low 2-C durability than Zen'o having infite speed: SD could have been right when saying that Zen'o hability is just erase live and matter, that would have negate Zamasu durability. But that is the only thing that can support Zamasu durability and still being a little speculative, and either way, Zen'o haven't infinite speed.
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Okay guys seriously, everyone knows that this is a staff only thread, acknowledging that you know your not staff but still replying is even worse than just replying.
I know you guys want to help with the issue, but this is a staff only thread for a reason. This is too controversial to let it be publicly debated.
So please as a message to all non staff members, PLEASE STOP replying on a staff only thread.
The amount of non staff people replying is getting out of hand.
I know you guys want to help with the issue, but this is a staff only thread for a reason. This is too controversial to let it be publicly debated.
So please as a message to all non staff members, PLEASE STOP replying on a staff only thread.
The amount of non staff people replying is getting out of hand.
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If anymore non-staff members reply, I will block you for a couple of weeks.
if you wanna say something, message it on my wall or mention it in chat.
Anyways, @Antonio, thats the thing, while my theory makes arguably the most sense and has (from what I check, 0 contradictions) it simply doesn't have enough evidence other than Beerus using a weaker version of it (Simple Destruction).
So either its a Likely / Possibly Infinite, using a theory, or using the path that has the least amount of evidence (Only 3-D destruction).
I feel like we're locked in an impossible enigma, with too many contradictions to counter. In this scenerio I suggest that going mildly conservative is the best situation, and adding a simple "Likely Infinite" then explaining the events and linking this thread.
if you wanna say something, message it on my wall or mention it in chat.
Anyways, @Antonio, thats the thing, while my theory makes arguably the most sense and has (from what I check, 0 contradictions) it simply doesn't have enough evidence other than Beerus using a weaker version of it (Simple Destruction).
So either its a Likely / Possibly Infinite, using a theory, or using the path that has the least amount of evidence (Only 3-D destruction).
I feel like we're locked in an impossible enigma, with too many contradictions to counter. In this scenerio I suggest that going mildly conservative is the best situation, and adding a simple "Likely Infinite" then explaining the events and linking this thread.
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Yeah, too many contradictions and speculation, DBS doesn't obeying basic physic and being inconsistence doesn't help; but for the best is just keep his stats until more info show up, it also ignore inconsistence and keep the author intent.
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Except if we keep the stats we're essentially saying Space-Time wasn't destroyed. On the other hand, if we just play it safe and say "Possibly Infinite" speed, we can demonstrate that the evidence is full of holes and contradictions but continue on with the least contradicting side and backpedal with ease if new evidence shows up. Also, I'm pretty sure that author's intent was that he destroyed all the existence of that timeline, so its best to keep that as a secondary detail.
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If neither side wants to go budge I say we take a headcount of whos for it and whos against it.
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