Dragon Ball Super Discussion 52

[Blanked]

Now we wait for for Ribrianne to get eliminated.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Yeah, this happened to be my issue with this case Komie.

No matter how you look at it Vegito scales to Kefla...

Amen for Ribrianne's elimination. Hmmm next episode will have Gohan and Piccolo eliminate the Namekians?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I really don't get why we are scaling Vegito to Kefla since the argument for it seems shaky and going of the assumption that DBS will stay consistent with its fusion powerups.


But if you guys want to go that route I don't blame ya. After all it is the most logical.

 

[FTW395]

You say you don't understand why we'd scale Vegito to Kefla and in the last sentence of your post you say it's the most logical choice? So what is it?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Just because it is the most logical doesn't mean it is what it's being presented. Kefla fought an opponent who is comparable if not even superior to a God of Destruction. Vegito doesn't have feats of such level.

Logically Vegito should be above Kefla. I'm just going by what it was presented.

 

[FTW395]

That's an assumption, somewhere it was stated SSB Vegito was definitely GoD level and he could well be above GoD level as well.

 

[Dark649]

Vegito quickly runned out of energy because of the ssb form, Kafla lasted more because she used a lesser and not with godly ki form.

 

[Blanked]

Vegito is above Kafla,(cause Goku or Vegeta SSB>>Kale and Cauli together)but that would ruin the low 2-C scailing so it's not getting accepted.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

How is it an assumption? Goku's Ultra Instict is a state which not even a God of Destruction can easily attain. And he could match Jiren who is above a God of Destruction.

And yes Vegito was stated to be GoD level. In the manga. In the anime however he has no statements.

 

[Huesito88]

Kale is above ssjb goku

 

[FTW395]

Then assuming he is, is wrong. But assuming by default that he isn't is also wrong. There's nothing that directly contradicts SSB Vegito being God level, so if we have indirect evidence that he is infact GoD level, we should rate him as such.

And Kale is nowhere near SSb Goku level, at best she's SSG Goku level.

 

[Huesito88]

Kale is above Ssjb goku but under Post ultra instinct ssjg goku

 

[Ssr4vegito]

we have a statement from fusionzamasu that he possesses infinite power and the kaioshins stating his standing as a god is above their understanding

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Many points show that Vegito scale to Kefla:

• The Potara limit in Vegito's case where he defused way sooner because of his power.
• Kefla wanting to go Blue. It shows that Blue is way stronger than her current forms.
• Goku & Vegeta >>> Kale & Caulifla.
• SSJ Kefla's perfomnace against Goku SSB.

@Blanked The low 2C is done because of a single statement. Vegito scaling to Kefla follows DB logic and its not made by just a vague statement.

@Huestio88 Watch last episodes. Her controlled form is weaker than SSG. So no she isn't. SSJ Kefla went toe to toe with SSB Goku.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

The problem is that we take the manga and the anime as separate canons. If we used the manga to scale Vegito to Beerus then he would be 3-A since there are no Low 2-C feats in the manga (bar Zeno).

Vegito is pretty likely GoD level. But we need more solid evidence to reliably rate him as such.

 

[Huesito88]

Omg "watch the last episode" I did that's why I'm saying this stuff, because I did watch the episode.

He was able to somewhat match SS Berserker 1 Kefla who was stated by Whis to be equal to the SSBKKx20 Universe 7 Spirit Bomb which was stronger than SSBKKx20 in SSBKK at an unknown multiplier.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

The problem is that we take the manga and the anime as separate canons. If we used the manga to scale Vegito to Beerus then he would be 3-A since there are no Low 2-C feats in the manga (bar Zeno).
Vegito is pretty likely GoD level. But we need more solid evidence to reliably rate him as such.

Even the anime doen't have low 2C feats except Infinate Zamasu's and Zeno's. All the low 2C powerscaling is based on a statement.

 

[Huesito88]

SsjB Goku Zamasu arc < ssjG post ultra instinct Goku

 

[FTW395]

Kale is above Ssjb goku but under Post ultra instinct ssjg goku

Pre-UI Goku >>> Post-UI Goku, so no that's wrong. It was stated numerous times that Goku was worn out against Kale and Caulifa.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

SsjB Goku Zamasu arc < ssjG post ultra instinct Goku

Nothing shows that or is stated by anyone. Not even by Vegeta.

 

[Huesito88]

Yet ssjb kaio-ken goku fought ssj Kefla who was as strong as his kaioken times 20 and with the energy of universe 7

 

[FTW395]

DBS sucks dick at power scaling. My far-fetched theory would be that she rivaled the power of the Spirit Bomb which somehow doesn't include SSB kkx20 Goku. But rather Goku used the SSB kkx20 energy to push the spirit bomb towards Jiren (not to power it further up).

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Yet ssjb kaio-ken goku fought Kale who was as strong as his kaioken times 20 and with the energy of universe 7

Kefla you mean. Because we are sure Kefla used full power. If a power up that big happened then Whis would have mentioned it or someone else would. SS2 Goku was still on par with SS2 Caulifla after Jiren.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

DBS sucks dick at power scaling. My far-fetched theory would be that she rivaled the power of the Spirit Bomb which somehow doesn't include SSB kkx20 Goku. But rather Goku used the SSB kkx20 energy to push the spirit bomb towards Jiren (not to power it further up).

I can agree with you on that. DBS hasn't been exactly reliable with its powerscaling especially now where its all over the place.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@KOMIE


Yes there are Low 2-C feats. Its just that those characters actually scale to said feat. The manga does not have even that.

 

[Dark649]

@KOMIE
The manga does not have even that.

Champa and Beerus were confident to destroy the universe in their fight in the manga.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

@KOMIE

Yes there are Low 2-C feats. Its just that those characters actually scale to said feat. The manga does not have even that.

And how they scale exactly? With only a vague statement backing up this? This is not an actual feat. High 3A feats exist though.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Champa and Beerus were confident to destroy the universe in their fight in the manga.

But that's only 3-A.

 

[Dark649]

But that's only 3-A.

Because we don't know if they could affect the space-time of the universe.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

And how they scale exactly? With only a vague statement backing up this? This is not an actual feat. High 3A feats exist though.

Because they scale to an actual Low 2-C feat. I never said they had Low 2-C feats. In the manga Vegito scales to 3-A Beerus and Champa.

 

[Huesito88]

Kefla you mean. Because we are sure Kefla used full power. If a power up that big happened then Whis would have mentioned it or someone else would. SS2 Goku was still on par with SS2 Caulifla after Jiren.

He did in fact I'm not making up stuff

https://youtu.be/3ec9hAWadUs (1:45)

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Kefla you mean. Because we are sure Kefla used full power. If a power up that big happened then Whis would have mentioned it or someone else would. SS2 Goku was still on par with SS2 Caulifla after Jiren.

He did in fact I'm not making up stuff

https://youtu.be/3ec9hAWadUs (1:45)

I have seen the episode and nothing shows that SSG Goku (now) is > SSB Goku before. Whis said that Kefla's energy rivaled the SB that Goku was bathed in. Nothing about his SSBKK power. The statement compares Kefla with the Spirit Bomb itself and not with Goku. Meaning Kefla at last was the trigger like the SB was.

 

[Huesito88]

The spirit bomb > goku

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

The spirit bomb > goku

Forgot to say Full power Kefla = SB > Goku. Also Goku just used a little more power than SS2 against Beserk Kale. He said himself. I will release a little more power.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I feel like a staff thread should be made for Low 2-C Vegito AN D Zamasu since we are getting off-topic now.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

I feel like a staff thread should be made for Low 2-C Vegito AN D Zamasu since we are getting off-topic now.

I agree but it should defenitely be discussed more than before and more carefully.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I will see if i can ask a staff member about it.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

A Spirit Bomb that impressed the GoD's more than SSBKKX20 >>>>> SSBKKX20 and ridiculously Casual Jiren

Kale is "around" as strong as current SSG Goku [ despite getting wrecked, she did a lot better against him currently ] , who is much much stronger than any variation of SSB up until that point sans Kaio-Ken. This would be consistent with what happened between SSB and Kale beforehand. Goku was stated twice to be growing in strength AND stamina . It kinda proves it if his base can temporarily fight on par with SSJ2 Caulifilia . Moments later [ minutes ] he grows enough power AND stamina to be on a differing level of SSG and SSB in mere minutes. Isn't that implying Goku's getting A LOT stronger ?

Secondly, i don't mind Kefla being Low 2-C. I had a feeling they would do that when the preview came out.

Thirdly, if they [later on] surpass this fusion [ the only one i see surpassing this fusion later on is Kale BTW... Caulifilia would make NO SENSE ] ... Words cannot describe the BS that will be .

 

[Huesito88]

Also I like to point out that Kefla last attack was similar to this Broly attack

https://youtu.be/yZ6ZXbwFEuc

 

[FTW395]

Maybe Ultra Instinct isn't much of a power increase but rather a speed increase?