Dragon Ball Super Discussion 51

[Aizenishere]

Wait so SS Kefla can keep up with UI oh ffs..

 

[GenesisHero12]

@7th Ki'oon

The universal survival arc where everyone becomes universal level.

That would be the meme for the arc by how its going right now.

I really hope it doesn't for the rest of the tournament or other arcs.

 

[TurboTriangle601]

wow i'm late to the bandwagon

Honestly i can bet that Goku will most likely not master Ultra Instinct. Beerus has been training under Whis for millions, if not billions of years and has still not mastered Ultra Instinct indicating that it's likely a bit more complicated then huge power boost and dodge attacks 24/7, Even if we assume Goku has the experience and power of someone training under Whis for 10 to thousands of years considering we've seen that he's a great fighting prodigy it just won't be enough. Also while i could think UI Goku would still surpass Beerus i still think he wouldn't master it. It would basically be like Super Saiyan Goku vs 100% Power Freeza (Expect Goku still has more mastery of ultra instinct compared to Super Saiyan and the fact that Beerus has higher battle experience.)

 

[Ryukama]

Zeno's English voice is finally out!

 

[Deu2Ex]

What are people talking about? An exhausted normal Kaio-ken Goku was about on par with her and was hurting her easily. In fact, I would go as far as to say he lost because of a cheap shot to his neck on low stamina while distracted. At best I put her on fresh x10 Goku at full power.

And no, she doesn't have SSJ2 since she seems to be using Kale's full power controlled berserk from the last episode, she even stated herself she was going full power.

But oh wait she took a punch from UI in the preview so that must put her on par with it right? Man, I don't know what Dyspo is so worried about with Frieza, he and Toppo were touched by UI Goku and didn't explode so they must be on his level right?

 

[AquaWaifu]

do people just foget about zenkai boosts? I personally think Kefla is stronger than Zamasu arc BLue Vegito but if SSB Vegito fought Kefla NOW, as in current Goku an Vegeta, obvs Vegito would be stronger.

 

[TurboTriangle601]

honestly deu that's actually a pretty good point

 

[Penguinkingpin]

I got one thing to say, Kefla isn't low 2-C yet. We have yet to seen her fight against UI Goku, and even if she does fight equally, that can be attributed to Goku running low on energy and stamina. The only way she should be even considered low 2-C is if she could fight Jiren equally, which is extremely dubious and doubtful.

 

[TurboTriangle601]

Also i wouldn't really be surprised if i see Kefla get upgraded to High 3-A solely because she made Jiren notice her for one in-episode frame and then go back to meditating.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Zeno's English voice is finally out!

They nailed it with his English voice.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Zeno's English voice is finally out!

I can legit picture Zeno as the protagonist of a kids cartoon now.

 

[AquaWaifu]

I got one thing to say, Kefla isn't low 2-C yet. We have yet to seen her fight against UI Goku, and even if she does fight equally, that can be attributed to Goku running low on energy and stamina. The only way she should be even considered low 2-C is if she could fight Jiren equally, which is extremely dubious and doubtful.

It was stated by the U7 benchers that if since Hoku could get back to SSBKK he was back at full strength. or mostly back

 

[DBZMLP12345]

Out of curiosity, did anyone want to update Vegito Blue's picture on his profile? Which do you guys think is better? The Current one, or this one

 

[Golden_Void]

It's fine the way it is.

 

[Amlad22]

Kefla is defiantly not above 3-A. She was injured by Kaio-Ken Goku and needed a cheap shot to defeat him. Unless she's hiding another power up she should stay at 3-A.

 

[ZERO7772]

Not sure about Low 2-C Zamasu. That would mean Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Hit, etc would be High 3-A or Low 2-C

Well same Kefla who is fighting UI in the preview "altough all we saw is her getting rekt" was having troubles with Goku alone in this episode and they said repeatedly she can fight him because he's very tired, if one use his mind Vegito is stronger by default

tbh i was against the UI being low 2-C in the first place because it's still sound something "the zone" rather than power up, Goku couldn't keep the Kaio-ken yet he can enter UI

Going with DBS broken logic i indeed think all character should be in low 2-C range

 

[AKM sama]

So Goku's statement removed all doubts from my mind about fusion. According to him:

Base Kefla > Controlled Berserker Kale + ssj2 Caulifla

And according to Vados:

Fused being = (highest form of char A + highest form of char B) X several tens

Result:

Base Kefla = (Controlled Berserker Kale + ssj2 Caulifla) x Several tens

 

[ZERO7772]

Da **** how did you came to this conclusion ?

 

[AKM sama]

By paying attention to the show??? lol

 

[Golden_Void]

Still doesn't address the infinity claims.

At any rate, SSB Goku scales to whatever we rate Kefla as. SSB > Base Kefla, and SSB+KK =< SSK Kefla

But any Kaioken above 3 likely slaps her.

 

[AKM sama]

Yes, I agree with SSB+KK <= ssj Kefla.

Let's see if Kefla has something up her sleeve to go against UI Goku next episode. Her saiyan blood coupled with Kale's ever increasing energy is a huge factor here.

 

[SuperDragoon978]

So far it seems like:

SSB Kaioken Goku>Weakened SSB Kaioken Goku>SSB Goku>SSJ Kefla=Weakned SSB Goku>SSG Goku>=Base Kefla>Weakened SSG Goku

 

[AKM sama]

I don't think Goku is weakened per say, he is just running low on stamina. And hence, he can't maintain his transformations for long.

 

[Nibbler3100]

Pretty sure Goku wasn't "weakened" his stamina was just not able to hold the kaioken form for too long still wouldn't effect the output, however we have no idea which multiplier he used with it hopefully not a x20. We can't just assume his SSJG form used in this episode was weaker than the ones back then because it probably wasn't since he's been gaining his stamina back slowly until he can use the form

How I see it is: KK Goku > SSJ Kefla > SSJB Goku > Base Kefla > SSJG Goku

 

[AKM sama]

Generally when he says "King Kai Fist" or "kaioken", he uses x2.

They would have definitely specified if he used higher.

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

Champa's statement sort of implies that he isn't at his full strength because he is fatigued. If he wasn't, I doubt he would have made such a statement. Regardless, unless Kefla achieves a new form she isn't qualifying for even High 3-A, let alone low 2-C.

 

[Nibbler3100]

Which statement are you referring to?

But if you guys look closely enough at the end of the NEP her hair does look pretty long ;-)

 

[AKM sama]

inb4 the next episode suggests that Kefla was holding back this entire time or, like Kale, her power keeps overflowing.

I thought nobody would stand a chance against Future Trunks in gaining asspull power-ups but these saiyan girls .....oh boy

 

[Warren_Valion]

Which statement are you referring to?
But if you guys look closely enough at the end of the NEP her hair does look pretty long ;-)

The one in which Vados questions Champa if Super Saiyan Kefla can beat a Super Saiyan Blue Goku.

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

Vados states that SS Kefla should be careful when fighting SSB Goku, and Champa replies by saying "Son Goku hasn't recovered his stamina from fighting Jiren." Now, could Champa be referring to merely the preservation of the form? Perhaps, but we can only assume that. It seems more than likely that Goku was not at his max, because he is fatigued.

 

[ZERO7772]

Trunks went from dabura level to possibly around SSB vegito level, the girls needed fusion to fight goku

Trunks is still king of asspull, getting energy from barely alive earth made him kill fusion zamasu, everything about Trunks was just wrong lol

 

[BlitzStrike]

Kefla should remain as 3-A although there's still a chance for her to improve due to the fact that she still isn't using that berserk transformation of Kale

 

[ZERO7772]

Vados states that SS Kefla should be careful when fighting SSB Goku, and Champa replies by saying "Son Goku hasn't recovered his stamina from fighting Jiren." Now, could Champa be referring to merely the preservation of the form? Perhaps, but we can only assume that. It seems more than likely that Goku was not at his max, because he is fatigued.

Only in DB "tired " have so little meaning, generally tired mean one isn't at full power and can't go for long

 

[ZERO7772]

I hope UI fail Goku at last second and then Frieza blow them the f*ck away

That will be so satisfying ~

 

[Warren_Valion]

Only in DB "tired " have so little meaning, generally tired mean one isn't at full power and can't go for long

Goku has Limitless Stamina confirmed. . .

 

[ZERO7772]

Only in DB "tired " have so little meaning, generally tired mean one isn't at full power and can't go for long

Goku has Limitless Stamina confirmed. . .

If videl appeard in DBS she would been SSJ3 level now, shame .......

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

inb4 Kefla defeats Jiren.

 

[Nibbler3100]

Sounds more like Champa underestimating Goku again now that he thinks he's "weak"

With that aside does anyone know why Kefla can stay fused for so long and Vegito couldn't if she's supposed to be stronger

 

[ZERO7772]

Who said she is stronger ? also time in this arc mean shit this whole episode was just one minutes, they can drag it as much as they want

 

[Aceraspire]

Goku first used just KK,then he said he's going full power too his aura became bigger again which implies he went KKx10.And when they say he's low on stamina it just means he con't maintain SSSBKK for long like Beerus said