Dragon Ball Super Broly Revisions

[Jobbo]

Hold on, I just realized Goten and Trunks are ranked Low 4-C and 4-C for Base and SSJ respectively. That makes no sense, I'll make an upgrade thread shortly.

 

[AKM sama]

Broly's SSJ is stacked upon his Ikari form. Base Broly is not Low 2-C.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

SSG is a power boosts nothing more nothing less. A SS1 can be more powerful than a SSG if their base form is stronger.

...But then their Blue forms are shown as performing equally against SSJ Broly, not long after. It makes absolutely no sense for Base Goku to be so ridiculously above Base Vegeta that his SS1 is stronger than SSGod, but still be equal in Blue.

 

[HrishikeshM]

lol no.....i disagree with ssj goku > ssg vegeta fra

all the staff members disagree and many normal users also disagree.....this should close

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Hold on, I just realized Goten and Trunks are ranked Low 4-C and 4-C for Base and SSJ respectively. That makes no sense, I'll make an upgrade thread shortly.

Link when done pls and ty

 

[Jobbo]

Link when done pls and ty

Here you go.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Nearly mastering Ultra Instinct can be considered nearing the power of a God of Destruction too.

Just saying.

 

[BlackeJan]

^^^^

No....if that was the case then Goku would had still used UI but that's not the case cause he has to be pushed to the absolute limit and no Goku can't access UI so he has SSB nearing the gods

 

[Dragomer]

Broly's SSJ is stacked upon his Ikari form. Base Broly is not Low 2-C.

Tell me where it's said because the official material say 'SSJ Full Power', nothing else, that sound like headcanon based on nothing.

Just saying it isn't an argument, Base Broly being weaker than infinit Zamasu and being weaker than Vegeta make no sense and goes against what we see in the movie.

 

[ZERO7772]

Great Ape doesn't give infinity increase from 3-A to Low 2-C and the show doesn't treat those character as Low 2-C either lol.

The only reason we are not scaling base Goku/Vegeta/Broly to low 2-C is to avoid some power creep.

 

[BlackeJan]

Who could honestly scale to Base Goku/Vegeta/Broly?

 

[ZERO7772]

Everyone and their mother? Just like how Piccolo is 3-A now because "lol meditating for 3 days"

The whole concept of Goku absorbing SSG into his base was idiotic imo

 

[AKM sama]

Tell me where it's said because the official material say 'SSJ Full Power', nothing else, that sound like headcanon based on nothing.

Broly stacks SSJ on top of his Ikari, not his base. Did we see the same movie or...?

 

[Dragomer]

Tell me where it's said because the official material say 'SSJ Full Power', nothing else, that sound like headcanon based on nothing.

Broly stacks SSJ on top of his Ikari, not his base. Did we see the same movie or...?

He goes from Ikari to SSJ, he doesn't stack them, nothing in the official material support that, everything state clearly and directly it's just SSJ and SSJ full power, it's not even SSJ Berserk like Kale.

 

[AKM sama]

"He goes from Ikari to SSJ"

Yeah, and SSJ is a powerup which provides a 50x boost, so basically he got a 50x boost on top of his current level which was Ikari at that time.

 

[Dragomer]

"He goes from Ikari to SSJ"
Yeah, and SSJ is a powerup which provides a 50x boost, so basically he got a 50x boost on top of his current level which was Ikari at that time.

That's like saying that when Goku goes from SSJ1 to SSJ2, the multiplier of the SSJ and the SSJ2 cumulate, making the multiplier 5000, that's nonsense and nothing official support it, the official product even contradict it since it's called 'SSJ', not 'SSJ Ikari', it's just pure and simple SSJ.

and no, it's 50x Boost to BASE FORM, nothing else, it's not '50x whatever state you were in before', Goku doesn't get a 50x multiplier on top of the kaioken he kept using against Freezer for exemple.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Nah. Broly was definitely still using his Great Ape power with SSJ, because Broly was still insane and out of control right up until Gogeta nearly obliterates him. SSJ makes you very, very angry, yes, but it doesn't make you completely batshit insane--that's what the Oozaru/Ikari transformation does. As well, the Ikari form distinctly made Broly grow in size (at least double or triple his normal size), a size he kept after turning SSJ--if Ikari turned off when he transformed, he would have lost those crazy gains. SSJ does make you more muscular, but it doesn't beef up your height.

To suggest they don't stack is kinda like suggesting that water and salt don't mix.

 

[Dragomer]

Nah. Broly was definitely still using his Great Ape power with SSJ, because Broly was still insane and out of control right up until Gogeta nearly obliterates him. SSJ makes you very, very angry, yes, but it doesn't make you completely batshit insane--that's what the Oozaru/Ikari transformation does. As well, the Ikari form distinctly made Broly grow in size, a size he kept after turning SSJ--if Ikari turned off when he transformed, he would have lost those crazy gains.

Except that Goku litteraly had to tell Gohan to go away because he wasn't sure he could control himself at this point.

And Broly wasn't even THAT crazy in Ikari, he was perfectly able to recognise what had happened to his father and goes SSJ from there and he was more crazy in SSJ than he ever was in Ikari form.

Litteraly any power up Broly did made him grow, nothing ever even hinted it was because of the Ikari form and him growing even more while in what everything official directly goes to call SSJ and nothing else debunk that theory.

And once again, the official material directly contradict that and call Broly's form 'SSJ' and note absolutly nothing special about it.

'to suggest', you're the one suggesting they stacked, i don't have to suggest anything since the official material directly call the form 'SSJ' and nothing else, anyone deviating from that is the one who is suggesting stuff, i just go with the official material.

Let's say you are right, the Ikari form and the SSJ form stacked (it doesn't but we'll say it does), well instead of being around base form Gogeta,, his base form is now 10 time weaker than base Gogeta, who is stronger than SSJB Goku and Vegeta, who are stupidly hight into low-2C, that still make his base form low 2-C, being 10 time weaker than someone who is thousand of times low 2-C as a lowbal still make you low 2-C

 

[ZERO7772]

But SSJ2 is only 100x base because it's 2x SSJ. The boost from SS2 is only 2x of your current power hence why 50 x 2 = 100x

Similarly, Broly was already in his Ikari form when he transformed into SS which grant him 50x boost on the top of his Ikari form. He also had green aura going on which isn't normal for a mere SSJ form so it's pretty obvious that Broly's SS form wasn't a normal one from the get-go.

 

[AKM sama]

and no, it's 50x Boost to BASE FORM, nothing else, it's not '50x whatever state you were in before', Goku doesn't get a 50x multiplier on top of the kaioken he kept using against Freezer for exemple.

Except the fact that you completely missed the part where Broly still had his Ikari eyes, Ikari aura and Ikari mental state in his transformations not his base eyes or regular aura or normal mental state, which proves beyond a doubt that he was using his Ikari essence in those transformations.

 

[Dragomer]

and no, it's 50x Boost to BASE FORM, nothing else, it's not '50x whatever state you were in before', Goku doesn't get a 50x multiplier on top of the kaioken he kept using against Freezer for exemple.

Except the fact that you completely missed the part where Broly still had his Ikari eyes and Ikari aura in his transformations not his base eyes or regular aura, which proves beyond a doubt that he was using his Ikari power in those transformations.

Design details like that to make the soft looking Broly look more savage and ehance the insane look doesn't suddenly mean he is stacking transformation that have never been stated to stack especialy when ONCE AGAIN the source material call it 'SSJ', it's a pure and simple SSJ and was achieved the EXACT SAME WAY Goku achieved SSJ on Namek, the source material goes out of his way to show it and call it that way.

You can't just make up rules because of minor design detail, if that's enought to say that Broly suddenly stacked 2 form and that his Ikari form can stack with any SSJ form, then Goku suddenly going white haired while powering up is enough to say he was about to go MUI, both of which aren't supported in anyway by what is actualy said and shown.

 

[ZERO7772]

Not to mentioned Broly's size and aura remained the same, SSJ doesn't make you 10 foot tall and give you green aura

Clearly that was SS stack on that top of Ikari form IMO.

 

[AKM sama]

So according to your logic we should just call Broly's Ikari form his base form because "muh design details to make him look menacing"? You're grasping at straws at this point.

 

[Dragomer]

But SSJ2 is only 100x base because it's 2x SSJ. The boost from SS2 is only 2x of your current power hence why 50 x 2 = 100x
Similarly, Broly was already in his Ikari form when he transformed into SS which grant him 50x boost on the top of his Ikari form. He also had green aura going on which isn't normal for a mere SSJ form so it's pretty obvious that Broly's SS form wasn't a normal one from the get-go.

No, SSJ2 isn't '2x whatever the form you're in', that's absolut nonsense, it's 100x your base power, that's all.

If you were right it would mean that going from base form to SSJ2 is less effective than a freaking basic Kaioken and that's not supported by anything in the franchise.

No, similarly nothing, don't make up random rules that never existed and were never implied at any point in the source material, his form isn't 'SSJ Ikari' or 'SSJ + Ikari' , it's 'SSJ' and 'SSJ Full Power', those are the official names and what the official material tell us about those forms, starting to make up headcanon that aren't supported by the source material and considering them legit is nonsense.

His form look different because he is Broly so we need a LSSJ looking form but it's still just SSJ, they didn't even call it 'SSJ Berserker' like Kale's form and once again, the entier thing is based on Freezer remembering how Goku went SSJ for the first time and clearly work the exact same way.

 

[Therefir]

You're the one trying to justify a headcanon by saying that Broly's Ikari eyes are just design details, I fully agree with AKM sama.

 

[Dragomer]

You're the one trying to justify a headcanon by saying that Broly's Ikari eyes are just design details, I fully agree with AKM sama.

Show me ANY official source that say Broly's SSJ form is stacked with Ikari, show me any characters talking about how Broly's SSJ form suddenly had the propertie of his Ikari form added to it, i'll wait, in the meantime, YOU have the headcanon and the official material call it 'SSJ' and treat it like a simple 'SSJ' form. Goku's hair going white while transforming was accepted as just a design detail; the same should be applied to Broly.

You agreeing with a headcanon doesn't make it official, it just make it a headcanon you agree with.

Also it's not on Broly's page so you should add it to the revision if you really believe that.

 

[ZERO7772]

Lol how about you chill a bit?

The guide books clearly show SSJ2 to be only 2x that of SSJ, and yes the jump from SSJ to SSJ2 is only as good as basic Kaio-ken except it has no drawback here.

Broly kept his size and aura when he transformed into SSJ, again SSJ doesn't make you 10 foot tall nor it give green aura, so it's only natural to assume he kept his Ikari power as he ascended to SSJ form.

You are the one who is pulling head canon left and right to justify your point of view.

 

[Therefir]

I don't need any proof other than that Broly still having his Ikari eyes while using the ssj form, also, the Ikari form and the ssj form are two clearly different things, Broly can't just go from Ikari to ssj, as they have nothing to do with each other, unless you are suggesting that he lost his Ikari form after transforming onto ssj, but this doesn't make sense and once again Broly still had his Ikari eyes.

 

[AKM sama]

You continue bringing up the name of the form. The name of the form being "SSJ" does not mean it can't be used exceptionally by exceptions. It is just Broly's SSJ and Broly is different.

 

[Dragomer]

Lol how about you chill a bit?
The guide books clearly show SSJ2 to be only 2x that of SSJ, and yes the jump from SSJ to SSJ2 is only as good as basic Kaio-ken except it has no drawback here.

Broly kept his size and aura when he transformed into SSJ, again SSJ doesn't make you 10 foot tall nor it give green aura, so it's only natural to assume he kept his Ikari power as he ascended to SSJ form.

You are the one who is pulling head canon left and right to justify your point of view.

How about you follow the official info and don't feel attacked when i don't accept your headcanon ?

No, that's not what you said, you said 'The boost from SS2 is only 2x of your current power', so jumping from BASE FORM to SSJ2 woulld be weaker than going Kaioken, see the nonsense here ?

SSJ does make you bulkier and slightly taller, the effect here was just bigger because it's Broly and being huge is his trademark and Ikari doesn't make your aura green either, his aura is green because he is Broly and it's the color associated with him.

Also Ikari Broly was never 10 foot tall, he grew to that size AFTER going SSJ and nothing is ever said about Ikari suddenly making him grow taller without stopping.

No, it's not natural, transformation never stacked like that in DB, no one mention it, no official material mention it and everything official simply call it 'SSJ' and 'SSJ full power', it's just a headcanon that is totaly unsupported.

Yeah cause following the official source is headcanon now, it being called SSJ is headcanon now, Freezer's whole plan being about making Broly go SSJ like Goku on namek and nothing else is headcanon now, the movie is headcanon now.

 

[ZERO7772]

Also, SSJ Broly being only 5 times stronger than Ikari makes no sense scaling wise when he was going head to head with SSJ Gogeta who is >= SSB in his base alone.

 

[Dragomer]

You continue bringing up the name of the form. The name of the form being "SSJ" does not mean it can't be used exceptionally by exceptions. It is just Broly's SSJ and Broly is different.

That explaination would work if anyone ever mentionned said exceptional use, no one did, at any point and no official material did either; you can't just make up the exception yourself from nothing.

Show me where anyone mention what you said, until that it's simply a headcanon and isn't supported by the official material.

 

[AKM sama]

" Ikari doesn't make your aura green either, his aura is green because he is Broly and it's the color associated with him."

Excpet Broly's normal aura is white just like any other saiyan. It's his Ikari aura which is green.

"Also Ikari Broly was never 10 foot tall, he grew to that size AFTER going SSJ"

Wrong again, Ikari Broly already grew massively taller against Redberry Goku.

Just pointing out your misinformation. I already said what I had to say about the matter.

 

[Dragomer]

I don't need any proof other than that Broly still having his Ikari eyes while using the ssj form, also, the Ikari form and the ssj form are two clearly different things, Broly can't just go from Ikari to ssj, as they have nothing to do with each other, unless you are suggesting that he lost his Ikari form after transforming onto ssj, but this doesn't make sense and once again Broly still had his Ikari eyes.

By that logic, Goku went MUI while going SSJB.

Yes, they are different thing, they are different forms and they don't stack, nothing mention that they do stack and no such forms have ever stacked before.

Ikari is Oozaru in human form, they are both saiyan transformation, they have a lot to do with each other and we never saw any Saiyans form stack to each other.

That's like saying that Goku losing his SSJ form when he goes SSJ2 doesn't make sense, Broly went from an inferior transformation to a superior one, just like transformation always worked in dragon ball, you can't stack transformation, at best you can stack a technique with a transformation and even then, it's risky.

The eyes just show that Broly is going insane / Berserk and to make him look menacing because his normal face is soft looking, that's all.

 

[Dragomer]

" Ikari doesn't make your aura green either, his aura is green because he is Broly and it's the color associated with him."
Excpet Broly's normal aura is white just like any other saiyan. It's his Ikari aura which is green.

"Also Ikari Broly was never 10 foot tall, he grew to that size AFTER going SSJ"

Wrong again, Ikari Broly already grew massively taller against Redberry Goku.

Just pointing out your misinformation. I already said what I had to say about the matter.

So are the earthlings's aura and pretty much everyone's aura when they aren't transforming or using a technique, his green aura follow him into SSJ, that's just because it's his color, just like a lot of opponents. Hell, even the video games make clear Broly isn't stacking forms.

Wrong, he didn't grow to 10 foot before going SSJ, don't call something 'missinformation' when you don't know basic stuff, it's even on his profile that his SSJ form has extended melee range.

Too bad you didn't point out any missinformation, 10 foot + tall is for SSJ Full power Broly, not his Ikari form, that's his official size, don't try to make up stuff just to accuse me of missinformation.

so you aren't going to present anything official to support what you said ?

People here are litteraly trying to argue that this transformation work in the opposite way to every single other transformation in the franchise and that the official names, info and scenes about it just call it and treat as SSJ without anything official supporting them just because 'his eyes are the same'

 

[Dragomer]

Also, SSJ Broly being only 5 times stronger than Ikari makes no sense scaling wise when he was going head to head with SSJ Gogeta who is >= SSB in his base alone.

That's because Broly constantly power up and improve and he had a full hour of powering up while fighting Freezer.

And Broly being weaker than infinit Zamasu, Toppo, SSJG Vegeta etc doesn't make sense scaling wise either.

 

[Therefir]

If they are two different things why can't they stack? That's like saying Kaioken can't stack over ssj blue, and comparing Broly's eyes and Goku's MUI is not even relevant as Goku only had that hair color for one second at most.

Oozaru has nothing to do with the ssj transformations, I'm don't know why are you claiming that, also, I know GT is not canon but Golden Oozaru is a thing.

I don't think the name of the transformation can override the obvious.

 

[Dragomer]

If they are two different things why can't they stack? That's like saying Kaioken can't stack over ssj blue, and comparing Broly's eyes and Goku's MUI is not even relevant as Goku only had that hair color for one second at most.
Oozaru has nothing to do with the ssj transformations, I'm don't know why are you claiming that, also, I know GT is not canon but Golden Oozaru is a thing.

I don't think the name of the transformation can override the obvious.

Because they aren't two different thing as i'v already explained, why don't you actualy read what i say before saying that ?

Kaioken is a technique, not a form.

Both are design detail who aren't addressed by anyone, both are the same things, how they have it doesn't matter.

Oozaru is a saiyan transformation, just like SSJ, they are both the same thing : a saiyan exclusive form.

Golden Oozaru wasn't even a Oozaru going SSJ, it was it's own transformation so even going non canon, nothing official support your stand.

I don't think your headcanon can override the official info.

 

[Therefir]

It doesn't matter if the Kaioken is a form or a technique, Ikari Broly being a form doesn't mean it can't be stacked over ssj.

> Both are design detail who aren't addressed by anyone, both are the same things, how they have it doesn't matter.

Wrong, Broly's Ikari eyes were there to show that he was transformed, while Goku's white hair was only there for a second to tease the audience, they are not the same thing.

> Golden Oozaru wasn't even a Oozaru going SSJ, it was it's own transformation so even going non canon, nothing official support your stand.

As I said I know it's not canon, but on what are you basing to say it's not a Oozaru going ssj?

> I don't think your headcanon can override the official info.

So Broly having his Ikari eyes in his ssj transformation is my headcanon now?

 

[Dragomer]

It doesn't matter if the Kaioken is a form or a technique, Ikari Broly being a form doesn't mean it can't be stacked over ssj.
> Both are design detail who aren't addressed by anyone, both are the same things, how they have it doesn't matter.

Wrong, Broly's Ikari eyes were there to show that he was transformed, but Goku's white hair was only there for a second to tease the audience.

> Golden Oozaru wasn't even a Oozaru going SSJ, it was it's own transformation so even going non canon, nothing official support your stand.

As I said I know it's not canon, but in what are you basing to say it's not a Oozaru going ssj?

> I don't think your headcanon can override the official info.

So Broly having his Ikari eyes in his ssj transformation is my headcanon now?

Except it does matter, a lot and Ikari being a form does mean it can't be stacked because that's not how transformation works in DB and even if it was an exception, it would need to be officialy mentionned for it to be accepted, hell, Goku actualy went and gave an explaination on why he could use both Kaioken and SSJB at the same time so even if we say Ikari is like Kaioken (it's not), if Broly had stacked it, they would have explained it, so once again, no, stop with your headcanon, Broly didn't stack Ikari with SSJ and even if he did, my point about his base form would still have the same conclusion.

Except you have no basis for that info and even calling them 'Ikari eyes' is not even supported given it could just be how Broly's eyes look when he is pissed off and/or power up, which is supported by them still being there when he change form. both are just design detail, Goku didn't go MUI and Broly didn't stack two forms.

Because litteraly nothing ever hint at that and it would be useless given that they had access to SSJ3 and the characters treat it as it's own thing and even the name isn't 'SSJ Oozaru', it's 'Golden Oozaru'.

Broly's eyes being specificaly for the Ikari form is your headcanon to begin with and the transformation suddenly stacking without anyone or anything ever mentioning it and the official info directly saying it's wrong and that's it's simply SSJ is also your headcanon, yes.