- 8,821
- 9,402
Welp, the time is here. This CRT will be divided into three parts. DB, DBS and DBS Chou.
DBS Chou
The first one is the shortest section of the CRT Base Goku should be 3-B. Here, not only is Goku able to knock some hair off a suppressed Whis but it's shown (or at least implied) that Base Goku is on the level on SSG. This should make his base 3-B and likely 3-A with transformations, as well as everyone else that scales. Base characters have also shown feats far above what a 4-B can do considering 4-Bs get ROFL stomped by 3-Bs and Goku was even shown to slightly keep up with other 3-Bs.
DBS Anime
Next is the scaling for low 2-C characters. Starting with Hit, he was able to block several punches from suppressed Jiren and put a dent in his chest with a direct attack. This shouldn’t be an outlier because Hit is able to adapt and improve mid battle and this was where his scaling stops. I think Hit should at least be rated "Possibly low 2-C".
Next we have Anilaza. He was strong enough overpower the five strongest guys in U7 including Blue Goku. Blue Goku was low 2-C at the time because right after Anilaza's defeat, he was casually clashing with a suppressed Jiren. There are arguments that Goku wasn't low 2-C at the time but that makes no sense. Him holding back against Anilaza is head canon, especially considering Goku had help, it wouldn’t make sense. Goku getting stronger after the fight is also head canon as he gets his gigantic amps from UI sessions. His fight with Jiren literally happened right after Anilaza. Android 17 one shotting Anilaza doesn't make it an outlier for the following reasons.
Android 17 may be 3-A physically but he has better feats with his shields. Not only did he one shot Anilaza with his shield but he was able to use them to protect himself against GoD Toppo. It even took GoD Toppo multiple attacks for the shield to break. Jiren and Toppo were the only ones who were able break the shields. 17's shields should definitely be low 2-C.
As a side note his self destruction should be low 2-C as well. It stopped an attack from Jiren, as shown here.
Next is Base Goku. Base Goku at the end of the TOP should be low 2-C. Jiren was initially super weak, where he was slightly above Golden Frieza. However, after Toppo motivated him, he stood up and got his flaming aura back. This form of Aura only appeared when he was getting close to his full power as shown below.
Gohan said Jiren at this level still had amazing power and Vegeta says he got over his issues, implying Jiren has regained some of his strength. He was even overwhelming Golden Frieza and 17's shield with his aura. Jiren was also able to tank 17's self destruct.
That's not all. Because of their infinite energy and stamina Androids AP doesn't get lower, at least when it comes to ki attacks. His barriers should still be as strong as they normally are and not only was Jiren able to break it but Base Goku was able to make an even stronger barrier that protected them against Jiren's attack. Plus Base Goku was able to clash with and hurt Jiren. This wouldn't be an outlier for Goku because the this is what he's been doing this entire tournament. UIS Broke his limits time and time again and UI should logically do the same, arguably even better than UIS. You could argue Frieza broke his limits too because of his ferocious potential (ie going from fodder to god tier in four months) but that point would be rather moot because he's stronger than Goku and Vegeta in the Broly movie anyway. If anything it's just a supporting feat.
This scales to Base Goku, Base Vegeta, Base Broly and Final Form Frieza.
Roshi's Infamous Moon Feat
It’s time to put an end to this. Roshi destroying the moon should not be an outlier. If we go back to Roshi’s profile in 2014 the outlier note was hasn’t changed other than the Tagoma part.
It reads:
“Note: The moon destroying feat Roshi did during the 21st Budokai is often regarded as an outlier at this point of the series when it happened due to stronger characters not demonstrating such a feat until the Saiyan Saga. Roshi surviving Tagoma's kick in Dragon Ball Super is also an outlier.”
I could use this same argument to downplay the 3-A feat in DBS. Both Goku and Roshi get a dramatic increase in power (SSG and Max Power Mode). Both are feats way above previous ones (9-B/High 8-C to 5-B and 4-B to 3-A). Both don’t show feats on that level until later in the series (Next feat higher than 3-A happens in the Goku Black arc, next moon bust is in the Saiyan Saga). The only difference is the power scaling. In DBS characters immediately start scaling to 3-A but in DB characters start scaling above the moon bust when it’s almost over. This literally makes DB characters scaling to the moon bust more legit than DBS characters scaling to universal. Only in the second to last DB arc is when characters start surpassing max power Roshi and those characters are like the god tiers at that point.
Roshi
When Roshi destroyed MT Fry-Pan, it was by complete accident. He only wanted to take out the fire. He also obviously destroyed the moon so he’s the starting point.
King Piccolo
He’s stronger than Roshi but suffers from this statement.
These two statements contradict each other. A small nuke cannot easily wipe away a city. A small nuclear bomb is 8-A. Destroying the moon is a feat, saying someone rivals a bomb is a statement that’s not even in the show and feats > statements. I find it funny how all of a sudden the Daizenshuu is such a reliable source when other statements Daizenshuu are straight up dismissed.
Here he blew away a city with no effort and he was just showing an example of his strength. He even states he can destroy the world. This outlier argument hinges on the AOE fallacy which DB has a lot of.
Shenron
Shenron recreated the moon and got murdered by King Piccolo.
AP and speed.
The calculation of the moon bust got the following results. It got 596 zettatons and 0.13c
There is also no quantifiable gap between EoDB Goku and BoDBZ Goku. He had very minimal training so all we know is that he barely got any stronger. So using Piccolo’s moon feat pretty moot but also another example of AOE abuse.
Arguments for moon bust
• Roshi destroyed the moon
• Numerous guide statements
• Shenron restored the moon and is weaker than King Piccolo.
• King Piccolo said he can destroy the world.
• Goku and co barely got any stronger between EoDB and BoDBZ.
• Krillin, Yamcha, and Tien being able to reach Saibaman level so easily.
• Scaling above the moon feat only happens when the DB is almost over.
Arguments against the moon bust
• Roshi accidentally destroyed a mountain.
• King Piccolo casually destroying a city.
• Nuclear bomb statement from Daizenshuu.
Conclusion
DBS Chou characters should be at least 3-B in base.
New low 2-C characters are Hit, Android 17 (with barriers and self destruct), base Goku, Base Vegeta and Base Broly.
Characters scaling to 5-B and relativistic are Max Power Roshi, King Piccolo, Goku, Kami, Popo, Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, Cyborg Tao (with Super Dodon Wave), and Piccolo Jr.
NOTE: Please do NOT bring up any cosmology shenanigans!
NOTE 2: This OP might be be updated.
DBS Chou
The first one is the shortest section of the CRT Base Goku should be 3-B. Here, not only is Goku able to knock some hair off a suppressed Whis but it's shown (or at least implied) that Base Goku is on the level on SSG. This should make his base 3-B and likely 3-A with transformations, as well as everyone else that scales. Base characters have also shown feats far above what a 4-B can do considering 4-Bs get ROFL stomped by 3-Bs and Goku was even shown to slightly keep up with other 3-Bs.
DBS Anime
Next is the scaling for low 2-C characters. Starting with Hit, he was able to block several punches from suppressed Jiren and put a dent in his chest with a direct attack. This shouldn’t be an outlier because Hit is able to adapt and improve mid battle and this was where his scaling stops. I think Hit should at least be rated "Possibly low 2-C".
Next we have Anilaza. He was strong enough overpower the five strongest guys in U7 including Blue Goku. Blue Goku was low 2-C at the time because right after Anilaza's defeat, he was casually clashing with a suppressed Jiren. There are arguments that Goku wasn't low 2-C at the time but that makes no sense. Him holding back against Anilaza is head canon, especially considering Goku had help, it wouldn’t make sense. Goku getting stronger after the fight is also head canon as he gets his gigantic amps from UI sessions. His fight with Jiren literally happened right after Anilaza. Android 17 one shotting Anilaza doesn't make it an outlier for the following reasons.
Android 17 may be 3-A physically but he has better feats with his shields. Not only did he one shot Anilaza with his shield but he was able to use them to protect himself against GoD Toppo. It even took GoD Toppo multiple attacks for the shield to break. Jiren and Toppo were the only ones who were able break the shields. 17's shields should definitely be low 2-C.
As a side note his self destruction should be low 2-C as well. It stopped an attack from Jiren, as shown here.
Next is Base Goku. Base Goku at the end of the TOP should be low 2-C. Jiren was initially super weak, where he was slightly above Golden Frieza. However, after Toppo motivated him, he stood up and got his flaming aura back. This form of Aura only appeared when he was getting close to his full power as shown below.
Gohan said Jiren at this level still had amazing power and Vegeta says he got over his issues, implying Jiren has regained some of his strength. He was even overwhelming Golden Frieza and 17's shield with his aura. Jiren was also able to tank 17's self destruct.
That's not all. Because of their infinite energy and stamina Androids AP doesn't get lower, at least when it comes to ki attacks. His barriers should still be as strong as they normally are and not only was Jiren able to break it but Base Goku was able to make an even stronger barrier that protected them against Jiren's attack. Plus Base Goku was able to clash with and hurt Jiren. This wouldn't be an outlier for Goku because the this is what he's been doing this entire tournament. UIS Broke his limits time and time again and UI should logically do the same, arguably even better than UIS. You could argue Frieza broke his limits too because of his ferocious potential (ie going from fodder to god tier in four months) but that point would be rather moot because he's stronger than Goku and Vegeta in the Broly movie anyway. If anything it's just a supporting feat.
This scales to Base Goku, Base Vegeta, Base Broly and Final Form Frieza.
Roshi's Infamous Moon Feat
It’s time to put an end to this. Roshi destroying the moon should not be an outlier. If we go back to Roshi’s profile in 2014 the outlier note was hasn’t changed other than the Tagoma part.
It reads:
“Note: The moon destroying feat Roshi did during the 21st Budokai is often regarded as an outlier at this point of the series when it happened due to stronger characters not demonstrating such a feat until the Saiyan Saga. Roshi surviving Tagoma's kick in Dragon Ball Super is also an outlier.”
I could use this same argument to downplay the 3-A feat in DBS. Both Goku and Roshi get a dramatic increase in power (SSG and Max Power Mode). Both are feats way above previous ones (9-B/High 8-C to 5-B and 4-B to 3-A). Both don’t show feats on that level until later in the series (Next feat higher than 3-A happens in the Goku Black arc, next moon bust is in the Saiyan Saga). The only difference is the power scaling. In DBS characters immediately start scaling to 3-A but in DB characters start scaling above the moon bust when it’s almost over. This literally makes DB characters scaling to the moon bust more legit than DBS characters scaling to universal. Only in the second to last DB arc is when characters start surpassing max power Roshi and those characters are like the god tiers at that point.
Roshi
When Roshi destroyed MT Fry-Pan, it was by complete accident. He only wanted to take out the fire. He also obviously destroyed the moon so he’s the starting point.
King Piccolo
He’s stronger than Roshi but suffers from this statement.
These two statements contradict each other. A small nuke cannot easily wipe away a city. A small nuclear bomb is 8-A. Destroying the moon is a feat, saying someone rivals a bomb is a statement that’s not even in the show and feats > statements. I find it funny how all of a sudden the Daizenshuu is such a reliable source when other statements Daizenshuu are straight up dismissed.
Here he blew away a city with no effort and he was just showing an example of his strength. He even states he can destroy the world. This outlier argument hinges on the AOE fallacy which DB has a lot of.
Shenron
Shenron recreated the moon and got murdered by King Piccolo.
AP and speed.
The calculation of the moon bust got the following results. It got 596 zettatons and 0.13c
There is also no quantifiable gap between EoDB Goku and BoDBZ Goku. He had very minimal training so all we know is that he barely got any stronger. So using Piccolo’s moon feat pretty moot but also another example of AOE abuse.
Arguments for moon bust
• Roshi destroyed the moon
• Numerous guide statements
• Shenron restored the moon and is weaker than King Piccolo.
• King Piccolo said he can destroy the world.
• Goku and co barely got any stronger between EoDB and BoDBZ.
• Krillin, Yamcha, and Tien being able to reach Saibaman level so easily.
• Scaling above the moon feat only happens when the DB is almost over.
Arguments against the moon bust
• Roshi accidentally destroyed a mountain.
• King Piccolo casually destroying a city.
• Nuclear bomb statement from Daizenshuu.
Conclusion
DBS Chou characters should be at least 3-B in base.
New low 2-C characters are Hit, Android 17 (with barriers and self destruct), base Goku, Base Vegeta and Base Broly.
Characters scaling to 5-B and relativistic are Max Power Roshi, King Piccolo, Goku, Kami, Popo, Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, Cyborg Tao (with Super Dodon Wave), and Piccolo Jr.
NOTE: Please do NOT bring up any cosmology shenanigans!
NOTE 2: This OP might be be updated.
