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Dragon Ball: Post ToP Revisions
- Thread starter Bruce_Reb
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Here's what I feel is a rather important question.
What the hell do we do with Ribrianne?
What the hell do we do with Ribrianne?
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@Ever
Ribrianne feels so hard to properly rate because she's kind of just a walking "because plot" character with very little actual consistency.
Ribrianne feels so hard to properly rate because she's kind of just a walking "because plot" character with very little actual consistency.
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Napapa scales to Basil, so he's 4-B at around Good Buu level.
Not sure about the others.
Not sure about the others.
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Dr. Rota should be Low 2-C. He's clearly stronger than MUI Goku and Jiren, but the writers had to nerf him and knock him out before he revealed his true power.
Simple Logic. OvO
Simple Logic. OvO
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In all seriousness, I think the likes of Ribrianne should be like High 4-C or something. Maybe 3-A in her final form?
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Ribrianne is really, really hard to quantify, especially given Android 17.
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We rejected higher ratings for Frieza from scaling to weakened Jiren, but why isn't he at least High 3-A from directly surviving Toppo's Hakai which warped the entire world of void?
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Ultimate Katopesla should be 3-A, he was preforming fairly well adainst SSJ Vegeta.
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Why isn't it?
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Good pointUnite My Rice said:
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It was established that warping an empty void is unquantifiable, even if it is infinite. For Ribrianne, I think we go with 3-A, for being superrior to the girl who fought 17, who has no reason to ever hold back-- and say 18's universal scaling are outliers. The same with the guys who made the Black Hole strong enough to affect Goku and 17. We gotta pull some outliers for certain stuff-- like 18 fighting against that Female Pride Trooper-- ok, ****, why does Universal 18 sound extra consistent scaling wise?! ToP!!!!!!
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Fandom glitch ate my post but.
Shouldn't the High 4-C characters have a "+" sign? I knot the reason we upgraded the human Z-Fighters was due to Tien being able to destroy Katchin. Which is something not even a slightly amped up Buu Saga Gohan was able to do with the Z-Sword. And that's despite Gohan mentioning that due to training with the Z-Sword, has gotten much stronger than previously; albeit still much weaker than Ultimate Gohan.
There's also Super Perfect Cell no longer being baseline 4-B which may or may not give characters who are weaker but not overwhelmingly weaker a slight upgrade.
Shouldn't the High 4-C characters have a "+" sign? I knot the reason we upgraded the human Z-Fighters was due to Tien being able to destroy Katchin. Which is something not even a slightly amped up Buu Saga Gohan was able to do with the Z-Sword. And that's despite Gohan mentioning that due to training with the Z-Sword, has gotten much stronger than previously; albeit still much weaker than Ultimate Gohan.
There's also Super Perfect Cell no longer being baseline 4-B which may or may not give characters who are weaker but not overwhelmingly weaker a slight upgrade.
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Yeah...speaking of which, Cell no longer being baseline 4-B is really bad (I still have problem's with 4-B Cell at all, tbh...). Gonna eventually make a downgrade thread back to baseline. Probably today.
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Likw, seriously, no one but Goku and Vegeta have legitimate reasons to be Universal. I don't like 3-A 18, but it's actually able to be argued for in a vacuum. She fought against Ribrianne, who fought against Goku, Vegeta, and is superior to someone who fought 17-- that purple girl with the barriers who fought Kale and Caulifla, and those guys who used the black heart...? Like, if fighitng agians Goku and Hit is enough to give Dyspo 3-A, this is more than enough for 18. Makes NO sense though... Like Piccolo... But, Majora-- yeah, i don't know. Give her a possibly?
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I'm not saying I want it, I just don't know what to do with the scaling otherwise. No one will complain, but the process we got to the conclusion-- can you tell me the process? Like, legit, the only reason i'm iffy is because of my reasoning for the scaling of others--- process matches. ugggggh
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Energy of Destruction is hax and AP, which is the point of the technique, but even if it was purely hax that doesn't change the fact that he used his energy to alter infinite space. There are tons of people who get ratings from hax.
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I remember a thread which suggested High 3-A for them and it was deemed as outlier, then the thread that upgraded 17 and Frieza with the at least 3-A had also many High 3-A suggestions mainly with all the things with God Toppo [Which attack completely destroyed Golden Frieza] and Jiren [Which fought after being heavily weakened]. You can try to make a thread, but i doubt they will be accepted since they were seen before and what Matthew and Kep said in these threads.
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Something to do with 18 consistently being portrayed as an underdog throughout the tournament. Obviously, it's a little absurd that training with Krillin would suddenly make her BoG saga Goku's level; then again, many characters suddenly went 3-A too fast like Frieza growing that fast under the course of only 4 months when it took Goku and the others 17-18 years, if you count Hyperbolic time chamber, to grow that strong.
Anyway, I'm personally neutral regarding 18, but I lean towards what the staff think; and that's that she won't be upgraded back. Anyway, I don't want to sound blunt, but it's @Amexin, I think you should preferably calm down. Over use of "!"'s and filler words such as "Ugggggh" are not really appropriate. I apologize of that came out as rude myself, but those things are just unnecessary and can get pretty annoying.
Anyway, I'm personally neutral regarding 18, but I lean towards what the staff think; and that's that she won't be upgraded back. Anyway, I don't want to sound blunt, but it's @Amexin, I think you should preferably calm down. Over use of "!"'s and filler words such as "Ugggggh" are not really appropriate. I apologize of that came out as rude myself, but those things are just unnecessary and can get pretty annoying.
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From what I've seen:
Toppo's hakai was rejected because Goku and Jiren shaking the void was stated on-screen, while Toppo's tech only produced a comment about the sky and nothing about the entire WoV. Pretty sure that's backpedaling and pretty much stating that GoD Toppo is weaker than Goku's first usage of ultra instinct. They even zoomed out the screen to the point where the stage was a dot on the map and the entire world of void was warped. I think the intent here is clear.
Even if his hakai was purely hax (which it isn't, as energy of destruction is also a ki attack and thus fueled by AP), people still get ratings from it. Otherwise, we'd have a 3-B Super Shenron that can casually bring multiple universes back into existence.
Now speaking on outliers..
Vegeta easily beat Hop, Oregano and Hyssop, helped Goku with the trio de dangers, knocked off Magetta after insulting him, defeated Prum and Dr. Rota, and helped against Anilaza before fighting God Toppo.
He fought nothing but fodder and participated in team efforts, then gets a power-up which jumps him in power above every previous instance of UI Goku, and defeats Toppo using nearly all of his power.
The RoF arc was year 779, and Frieza was revived in year 780. In that time we had the U6 arc and Future Trunks arc + Zen Exhibition Match. Frieza through mental training alone while trapped in hell was able to stalemate pre-ToP SSB Goku after all those events. In his training pre-golden form, we see him fight repeatedly with Tagoma while only using his first form (restrained) and he becomes stronger than SSB in his golden form.
Frieza fought Cabba though he said he didn't even need his final form, Dyspo who was > Hit before improvement and could keep up with SSB Goku, and other fodder, plus he could hurt full power Toppo pre-GoD form, and could survive the world of void warping attack, which wasn't even Toppo's full power.
Frieza's fights > Vegeta's, and as a self-proclaimed and proven prodigy, his improvement should be faster than anyone's, bar Goku. Plus Goku said everyone broke past their limits in the tournament, so I don't see how Frieza's durability feat is more of an outlier than Vegeta's entire transformation is.
Vegeta's only standout moment other than that was the final flash that Jiren no-selled, and seeing through Jiren's attacks, only to get stomped. He did fight Toppo who wasn't using full power, but that wasn't a serious fight as neither were doing anything to each other.
Toppo's hakai was rejected because Goku and Jiren shaking the void was stated on-screen, while Toppo's tech only produced a comment about the sky and nothing about the entire WoV. Pretty sure that's backpedaling and pretty much stating that GoD Toppo is weaker than Goku's first usage of ultra instinct. They even zoomed out the screen to the point where the stage was a dot on the map and the entire world of void was warped. I think the intent here is clear.
Even if his hakai was purely hax (which it isn't, as energy of destruction is also a ki attack and thus fueled by AP), people still get ratings from it. Otherwise, we'd have a 3-B Super Shenron that can casually bring multiple universes back into existence.
Now speaking on outliers..
Vegeta easily beat Hop, Oregano and Hyssop, helped Goku with the trio de dangers, knocked off Magetta after insulting him, defeated Prum and Dr. Rota, and helped against Anilaza before fighting God Toppo.
He fought nothing but fodder and participated in team efforts, then gets a power-up which jumps him in power above every previous instance of UI Goku, and defeats Toppo using nearly all of his power.
The RoF arc was year 779, and Frieza was revived in year 780. In that time we had the U6 arc and Future Trunks arc + Zen Exhibition Match. Frieza through mental training alone while trapped in hell was able to stalemate pre-ToP SSB Goku after all those events. In his training pre-golden form, we see him fight repeatedly with Tagoma while only using his first form (restrained) and he becomes stronger than SSB in his golden form.
Frieza fought Cabba though he said he didn't even need his final form, Dyspo who was > Hit before improvement and could keep up with SSB Goku, and other fodder, plus he could hurt full power Toppo pre-GoD form, and could survive the world of void warping attack, which wasn't even Toppo's full power.
Frieza's fights > Vegeta's, and as a self-proclaimed and proven prodigy, his improvement should be faster than anyone's, bar Goku. Plus Goku said everyone broke past their limits in the tournament, so I don't see how Frieza's durability feat is more of an outlier than Vegeta's entire transformation is.
Vegeta's only standout moment other than that was the final flash that Jiren no-selled, and seeing through Jiren's attacks, only to get stomped. He did fight Toppo who wasn't using full power, but that wasn't a serious fight as neither were doing anything to each other.
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Time skipping isn't simply stopping time, otherwise Vados's description of cage of time being "a continuous time skip" would make no sense over time itself being stopped. By Hit's own words he said "time for everyone else but us" is stopped, and that's the first (probably the last) time he's done that.
Even Vados explains time skip =/= time stop
Even Vados explains time skip =/= time stop
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@UMR,
What's your point though? I mean, I agree, Vegeta didn't do much and he got a boost, but how does that solve the 18 situation-- which, honestly seems the most important, considering the fact that we're pretty much done aside from the higher tiers. All of the fodder seems to be accounted for.
What's your point though? I mean, I agree, Vegeta didn't do much and he got a boost, but how does that solve the 18 situation-- which, honestly seems the most important, considering the fact that we're pretty much done aside from the higher tiers. All of the fodder seems to be accounted for.
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I was talking about Frieza and Vegeta.
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