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Dragon Ball: Post ToP Revisions

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I believed they were 3-A but after rewatching it i changed idea and presented mine, however due to Super bad powerscaling its a 50 / 50 situation since there are those that are fine with High 4-C to 4-B for them and those that wants to keep the 3-A rating. Making a Discussion Rule will not stop this topic due to the series popularity and how they see a characters strength, also that discussion rule might end to be switched with don't ask these characters being changed from 4-B or 3-A, even if we try to aim for the best consistency the topic will end up to resurface again, so i have nothing left to say.
 
Why not just invoke the "possibly"? It's literally as accurate as you can get— I don't understand why people are so conservative with "possibly".

I mean, the Trio de Dangers are at least 4-B, with there being a possibility of Universal....?
 
Well, actually, the 2/3 of the Dangers might not even get a possibly, as they have the anti-feats of being comparable to Star and Solar System Level fighters. Bergamo is the only one who should be possibly Universal.
 
Please don't seriously use the word "Anti-feat".

Also, the idea that everytime Goku fights only in base he is holding back so much as suggested is absurd, specially when he shows explict struggling and gets evidently hurt in the fight.
 
The assumption that Goku is always suppressed if only in base is straight-up wrong. Most of these proposed 4-B people have straight up harmed and caused pain to people on Base Goku level. Which would be impossible if they were fully suppressed.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Napapa's only other feat of note would be fighting on equal grounds with Basil, who is 4-B.
Click to expand...
Gohan could have easily defeated Jimeze or Obuni, but wanted to have a good fight with them. Also by this logic Matthew Krillin, Roshi and Base Ganos would be 3-A for fighting a suppressed Goku.
 
Not at all. That's a false equivalency. You are assuming that Goku is always suppressed. Our whole point is that he isn't.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The assumption that Goku is always suppressed if only in base is straight-up wrong. Most of these proposed 4-B people have straight up harmed and caused pain to people on Base Goku level. Which would be impossible if they were fully suppressed.
Click to expand...
But how do you decide when Goku is suppressed and when he isn't ? Also Goku's durability is directly correlated to his power level, so if Goku suppresses himself to a 4-B power level, he can be hurt by 4-B opponents. The fact that most of Universe 7 team (i.e. Roshi, Piccolo, Krillin, 18 and Tien) weren't immediately lolstomped kind of invalidates the argument that a major chunk of ToP fighters were 3-A
 
Yeah, Roy is right about the durability. The most hard evidence is not even the Battle of Gods fight, but the Namek saga scene with Vegeta and Krillin. Krillin wouldn't be able to blast through Vegeta if he hadn't lowered his durability and power as low as he could. So, we know that "strain" doesn't matter. Especially against Krillin. Goku sounded like he was trying there— especially towards the end with SSB.
 
Not the best translation, but I recall him saying similar shit everywhere.

http://www6.mangafreak.net/Read1_Dragon_Ball_303_11

Kanzenshuu play by play.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-303/

Then, Krillin blasts his chest straight through.

So again, how do we know when Goku is genuinely struggling or not having if he can make weak attacks hurt him genuinely? Yes, those characters consistently harming other Universal beings might be one thing, but they can suppress themselves too. The only people I would say are exceptions to the suppression are that cat girl that fought 17, Ribrianne (being superior to that girl), and therefore the other chick. Which would mean 18 has a universal outlier, or is universal. Outlier feels right, but has no rational basis because defining an Outlier has even more difficult conditions. We can't easily say her being 3-A comes out of nowhere because so does Cabba and 17, and almost everyone being 4-C. 4-C Roshi sounds like it came from nowhere. 3-A 18 has the same basis as he does for literally everything he is. They trained vaguely. Hell, 18 trained on screen. Does it make sense, no. Are there feats and an explaination. Yes. So I don't know what to go with.
 
Dark649 said:
Ok, i think the Cocotte forcefield should be also downgraded, also it should be adjusted this way since the main 3-A characters held back for a good fight or in order to conserve energy from bigger foes. I now think that making them 3-A was a mistake:

High 4-C: Roshi, Android 18, Krillin, Ganos, Tien, Cocotte, Viara, Brianne, Su, Sanka, Nigrisshi, Narirama, Battle and Ultimate Katopesla, Bollarator, Maji Kayo, Damon, Gamisaras.

4-B: Base Gohan, Piccolo, Jimeze, Botamo Dura, Cocotte Forcefield Dura, Magetta, Frost, Cabba, Caulifla, Kale, Saonel, Pirina, Bergamo, Lavender, Basil, Hyssop, Hop, Obuni, Napapa.

3-A: Base and Golden Frieza, Full Power Goku, Vegeta, 17 and Ultimate Gohan, Koichiarator, Kefla, Anilaza, Toppo, Dyspo, Hit.

Note: Base Gohan [Who only used his full ultimate power against Koichiarator and Dyspo] and Dyspo [Who overpowered Hit] were heavily weakened when Ballarator and Kayo attacked them. Both Bollarator and Kayo were said to be inferior to U3 strongest warrior Nigrisshi, who was fodder to Base Cabba. Lastly a distracted character can be hit by an attack lower than his durability.
Click to expand...
Kayo held back SSJ Goku making him go Blue to transform and unless it was explictily said Dyspo was weaker, Kayo is 3-A.

Nigarisshi's claim of being the strongest warrior is pure and utter bullshit unless u think statments>feats.

Base Gohan = Base Goku. Piccolo strangled SSJ2 Gohan. Lavender fought him on equal terms. Freeza said Gohan couldnt beat Jimeze in base and should have transformed to win.

Also, u put Ultimate Gohan at 3-A but not the people he fought against in that form. What???

The following fought SSJ Goku or Vegeta; Frost, Maggeta, Kale, Caulifla and Katopelsa. Bergamo literally toke a SSB KaioKen kamehameha so I dont really know where ur going with this.

others are either to inconsistent to scale properly or I just dont care enough about them to make a case.
 
Even Frost being 3-A comes into question. And Piccolo being 3-A, while cool and supporting Piccolo, has no explanation. Makes no sense. I mean, sure, it's scalable, but huh? How did Piccolo reach god levels? I know he trained, but it wasn't anything like Goku's? Like, it's not incredulity- there needs to be reason behind scaling right? Simultaneously, we don't have to focus on that too much, because of what I said.
 
Most of the characters on Dark's list, especially from U6, fought ssj Goku/Vegeta. They are straight up 3-A.

Anyway, I disagree with most of them unless better arguments are brought up, instead of "He can hold back, so he was definitely holding back in his transformed state". This is just an assumption without any actual contextual evidence.

Although, some profiles do need to be revised.
 
I can give an argument than that strawman.

It really just comes down to there's no hype/statements or scaling to corroborate that position though.

Hop fighting against Base Vegeta and losing to Vegeta is only enough to give her At least 4-C, possibly 3-A— because her strength level isn't supported by anything else. For me, I need the person or people in question to take on multiple top tiers. Like, for example, Dyspo. Even though he has no hype, he consistently fought against people who were universal, gave them trouble, and likely forced them to bring out more power than against someone like Majora, or that blue kid who turned into a chicken.

That Blue chicken kid is the best example of who shouldn't get scaled. He fought base Goku, yes, but he has trouble tagging Roshi. Not universal.
 
I too think that anyone fighting base Saiyans should be scaled only when there is complete surety. But what is warranting Hop's 4-C rating. IIRC, her only feat is fighting base Vegeta.

I agree about the chicken kid. Ganos is not rated as universal anyway.
 
Scaling off of Krillin, who should be comparable to 18, who we assume is large star or so? Hop shouldn't be weaker than Krillin. There's also the fact that all the fighters should be able to break Katchi Katchin, something that's harder than stuff that couldn't be broken by Large Star Saiyan base forms.
 

Like a maniac who shoots deadly firebrands and arrows,
so is one who deceives a neighbor and says, "I am only joking!"
~ Proverbs 26:18-19​
 
The nameks and that guy with the locket might be an exception instead of the rule?

My idea isn't perfect, but even still, universal ratings should be reserved for people who have demonstrated enough scaling to corroborate their position, or demostrate "remarkable performance", like Kale, Caulifla, and Obuni? Idk
 
Kale, Maji Kayo, Obuni, Pirina and Saonel should definitely stay at 3-A since they have feats backing it up. Not sure about everybody else. But the U6 characters and characters that made them fight seriously should be 3-A as well.
 
Well, I need to think about Maji Kayo, because there was a guy Goku went Blue to get out of the grip for... I... Don't know how to feel about stuff like that.
 
Well he did make Goku go SSB to get out of his grip and overpowered Base Dyspo before he lost focus from facing Jiren.
 
I don't know if anyone discussed this yet, but can't Dragon Ball characters control their Ki at will, and increase or decrease how powerful they can be at one time?

So even if Goku's in SSB against someone like Krillin, I would still think that he lowered his Ki to his level...

Again, I don't know if that was discussed or not here.
 
Because I don't want everyone to be caught up in either "Nobody should be downgraded at all our current powerscaling is great" or "Everyone who isn't the absolute top of the ToP should be Large Star level", since both are wrong, I want to give a short list of people who very obviously shouldn't be where they currently are. The rest can be discussed, separately. This shouldn't become an "all or nothing" thread.

Bergamo: His fights are hilariously early in the tournament. Barely anyone was going all out. He really shouldn't be 3-A without his special ability. Also "3-A, higher with Crusher Ability"? As in "He becomes High 3-A"? What?

Lavender: His whole deal is "winning via cheating". He was knocked out cold by base Gohan and needed to team up with Hop against Vegeta. Speaking of which...

Hop: Has literally nothing putting her remotely close to 3-A.

Raging Battle Katopesla: The debunk of him being 3-A is quite literally in his current 3-A justificatio.

Gamisaras: Stomped once he was remotely visible.

Jimeze: Fought an extremely held back Gohan, not Gohan at full power.

Damo: Eliminated Piccolo via the element of surprise, not by straight up overpowering him. Goku and 17 eliminating him in return wasn't even a real fight.

Hyssop: Nothing puts him at this level. Vegeta treated him like a joke.

Napapa: Only actually pushed SSJ Caulifla because she LET him do it and then proceeded to toss him off the stage. He was also effortlessly stomped by base Freeza. His only real feats are restraining base Kale, who was complete fodder, and fighting evenly with Basil, who is 4-B.

At the very least, these guys shouldn't be where they are. The rest need more extensive discussion.
 
"Also "3-A, higher with Crusher Ability"? As in "He becomes High 3-A"? What?"

It means a higher degree of 3-A.
 
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