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That’s interesting.
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Dragon Ball MWI undoing continuation thread
- Thread starter Omegabronic
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- #82
it does mean we can't, i don't want people to have the impression that this is an option as of now, please don't talk about that until it is accepted
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Toei has context for there being spatio-temporal separation.
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But there's only 1 universe sized structure. Afterlife is stated to be universal in size in a guide sure but it was explicitly toei anime only and even marked as such.
Also about the afterlife being called "cosmos" is that we cannot assume it means universal in size going off of our own idea of a universe when it's
1. Drastically different from our universe. We cannot assume a metric based off our own universe when it's nothing like our universe.
2. "Cosmos" here is differentiated from the "Universe" which further supports the above.
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- #85
that just means that its aestetic is the "opposite" of the mortal universe, akira called it "small" when comparing to it
taking out Toei stuff, what is the proof of spatial-temporal separation for the afterlife? Heaven is a planet btw, it is in the same space time as the afterlife, and outside of Toei again, what is the proof of it being universal in size for the afterlife to be universal in size for it to be low 2-C?
agree with what? this thread is to set the results of the last one, it isn't even proposing a solid proposal yet outside of the "cosmos" scan in the op
as the thread says, that is for Toei, which was separated from main cannonIn fact, this was discussed here, since they are space-time barriers of the Universe
DB Toei - About Buuhan's Tier 2 rating
Hi all. So, by pure chance, I found that we have a profile for Majin Buu from the Toei Continuity. More importantly I also noticed we now finally use this feat: Low Multiverse level Environmental Destruction with Outside Space (Warps space and rips through the wall between dimensions, which...vsbattles.com
not in the thread you showed
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- #86
on the afterlife cosmos scan i assume? can you comfirm
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Actually, what’s the ruling on what can be let in from Toei? The whole thread has been about disbarring all Toei evidence, but we know for a fact the cosmology Akira gave them was the objective one he wanted to use for canon, which we see in the DBS Manga. Meaning necessarily SOME PART of Toei’s cosmology MUST be allowed.
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Yes.
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We can't conveniently pick and choose here. It's either all in or none at all. To be frank we have almost no idea what was Toriyama's idea or what was the staff team's idea.
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I disagree with this, Akira Toriyama worked on the cosmology of both, all the cosmology material in this guide is canon, due to being mentioned several times and even in manga stuff (cosmology was taken from Toei, but information from canon guides still remains),This is the point where Akira Toriyama worked tirelessly to maintain the same cosmology.
Being called a cosmos only further confirms what was said about the size of the heaven which is the size of the Universe, nothing you said refutes anything already mentioned in canon materials.
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- #91
that is also what this thread is trying to set......altho from the number of page in a single day with only 1 topic, maybe i have made a mistake making it so broad...........if this reaches 6 pages by the end of tommorow i might need to create another thread for organization purposes
that reasoning was rejected a while ago in recent thread, him aproving apparently doesn't mean that the ideas are cannon to the main cannon from what i remember of the disagreement, altho i suppose that can change, i will now say a warning for everyone in this thread
stay on focus for now on the "cosmos" point, which is the only one with a vote tally in the OP currently, we need focus here on the topics else this thread will likely get clogged, and if i does i will have no choice but to ask it for closure and try to sort the consequences myself, in which i can forget something by chance and some of you might get mad at me for doing so, so let's try to focus for now ok?
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- #92
everything is not something we can assert, specially when Hell works and looks very differently between both Toei anime and Main continuity as seen in Super
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Well, considering Toriyama drew up literally all of it for Toei, I’d argue that anything from the Z Anime from the Afterlife Tournament-Buu Saga should be fine. However, things like GT’s Sugoruku space would be a no-no, (as Toriyama wasn’t involved with GT), and things they made up prior to that are also disbarred (Movie Goku’s Space-Time Transcending Dimension for IT).
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I was pretty sure what was rejected was the specifically MWI debacle, and at best compositing everything due to MWI. Not disregarding Toriyama’s efforts.
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Frieza’s hell it’s only earth’s hell. And there was no earth hell in Toei (DBZ/DB GT)….
Killerdrone123
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Frieza was specifically sent to earths hell there is a statement in manga that confirms the existence of heaven and hell in afterlife
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Well…
Cosmos - Wikipedia
“In physical cosmology, the term cosmos is often used in a technical way, referring to a particular spacetime continuum within a (postulated) multiverse. The particular cosmos in which humans live, the observable universe, is generally capitalized as the Cosmos.”
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A thread covering said efforts was made a little while ago
which is clearly not a thing in the Toei continuity since beings who dies far away from Earth, like the Ginyu special forces, are in the same general hell as everyone else
you know......he covered this right?Well…
Cosmos - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
“In physical cosmology, the term cosmos is often used in a technical way, referring to a particular spacetime continuum within a (postulated) multiverse. The particular cosmos in which humans live, the observable universe, is generally capitalized as the Cosmos.”
Killerdrone123
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Dude that is not the point let me reword it for you frieza got the special treatment as clearly the things present in the afterlife hell won't budge him at all so he was sent into a cutesy hell so that he would be tormented
Iirc it was even mentioned in the anime and that place was a hell when you take frieza's point of view by my point of view I wouldn't call a place which has fairies and angels that are singing and dancing a hell
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In fact, everyone is confused about Freeza's hell, he's about hell itself, at the beginning it's shown, all the mountains of hell, Ema has created her own little place for our beloved villain Freeza.
For those who have never seen the structures of hell in Dragon Ball, they are sharp-pointed mountains, where the place where Freeza is placed is shown. It is not hell on earth, but hell in cosmology, where it is below the other world, separated by strange clouds
Hell has several locations in it, some areas of which are unknown, some shown in GT, toei, and super.
For those who have never seen the structures of hell in Dragon Ball, they are sharp-pointed mountains, where the place where Freeza is placed is shown. It is not hell on earth, but hell in cosmology, where it is below the other world, separated by strange clouds
Hell has several locations in it, some areas of which are unknown, some shown in GT, toei, and super.
Nullflowerblush
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which was specified to happened due to him not repenting his actions, implying that this always happens to those who doesn't repent and the ones who do get re encarnated, which wouldn't make sense with Toei as the souls there are cleaned of their sins as shown in the Janemba movie, so if one doesn't repent they are cleaned out of them
Nullflowerblush
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I like how nothing said here actually disproves the belief that Hell functions differently between the canon and the TV anime continuity.
Like, why is Frieza allowed to roam Hell freely in the TV anime in his original form when he was condemned to eternal torment in the form in which he died (Mecha Frieza), contained within a cocoon in Super?
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- #104
guys, i'm serious, let us focus on the "cosmos" point of the afterlife at hand first please? back and forth about an already rejected topic will get us nowhere
will i really have to create another thread?
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And curiously you ignore the part where it’s said "The cosmos", committing a cherry picking fallacy…
Cherry picking - Wikipedia
Cosmos is the alternative name for Heaven/Afterlife, I've been sending the same thing three times...
Nullflowerblush
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And, curiously, you continue to ignore the up-in-your-face Japanese text, the literal description of the realm in question.
You're doing a nominal fallacy here, and not even a smart one—like calling the Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon a 4-C attack.
Killerdrone123
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Dude how things function in the hell was never part of the discussion it was regarding its cosmological nature which toriyama decided to keep the same and what proof do you have that the souls aren't cleansed of evil,hell kid buu who is personified of evil reincarnated you know the guy who doesn't even have common sense and think of nothing other than destruction and I also think that kid buu is not the type who would repent
Nullflowerblush
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A synonym for the word "grenade" is the word "missile".
An M67 is not suddenly as explosive as a 3M22 Zircon, though.
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This exists in both Toei and the Manga, actually.
Killerdrone123
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Also I think there souls are cleansed after they repent not if they don't repent it is cleansed
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Hell has several different areas where it kind of hasn't shown up to this day, your refutation doesn't refute mine.
Frieza is another area of hell, Frieza toei can travel through Hell, but he never showed other parts besides those shown recently, nothing actually refutes that hell has undiscovered areas, hell is very big.
Nullflowerblush
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My point was never about whether or not Hell had a diverse geography, my point was that, in the canon continuity, a character like Frieza is bound and damned to an eternity of psychological torment for his endless sins, whereas in the TV anime's continuity, characters like Frieza, Cell, Dr. Gero, the Ginyu Force, etc. are never victim to such punishments.
Hell, in Bio-Broly, Goku and Pikkon had to venture back down into Hell to defeat a rampaging Broly. He was just allowed to do that.
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I showed that cosmos = Universe any case. And guy, you’re committing false analogy fallacy, bringing cases that have nothing to do with this context…
Like for example this false analogy…
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I agree with this, especially the heaven being universal statement, nothing really contradicts it, and it being recognized by the guidebooks is a good thing/more supporting evidence, even if the original statement is from the anime. Honestly this whole thing with the afterlife not being universal is kind of silly, when we have actual valid material to go off of the cosmology, stuff that akira put in place himself. Also to add on, all that's needed for the afterlife to be a separate spacetime is to be physically separated from the other realms, we have statements of the rosat being between dimensions and the subspace being what separates all of them, if it's physically separated where regular 3D movement isn't possible, it is a separate spacetime, so we should just drop that argument.
Nullflowerblush
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Apologies, but until you can muster an argument that extends beyond "Well, the Wikpedia article says 'cosmos' is a universe", completely ignoring everything the diagram of the map has given you (i.e., 天界), I'm not going to entertaining your weird, humiliation thing any further.
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I liked blah, blah, blah ( this was so cool )
What a shame then, different stories with the same cosmology
¯\(ツ)/¯
Nullflowerblush
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Is there something in Kakarot I missed, or is this still about the Chouzenshuu?
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The kanji next to the texts ARE meant to be the real japanese meaning of them, and all the other english texts have about 1:1 meanings with the japanese counterparts next to them
But the issue is that the kanji itself is not in relation to the "cosmos" text next to it (unlike the others which are in relation to their name, for example map of the DB world is consistent), since the kanji for cosmos is never 天界 or has a meaning relating to Heaven/Afterlife. It's a really weird situation and I'm not sure what to make of it. We should definitely have a translator to inspect upon it for some real confirmation but until then we should put it aside for now and focus on something else
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The Otherworld as a whole is still stated to be larger than the living universe. And the living universe isn't just "The size of the observable universe." It still has Earth, and by extension the 47 billion lightyear telescope view and everything within the circular area, are all located within the "Edge of the universe." And I already talked about every planet, star, or galaxy in our universe exists in the Dragon Ball universe via Toriyama's notes; but and then some. We don't even need the "Heaven alone is the size of the Living Universe which is in turn very small compared to the rest of the Otherworld" statement. Otherworld as a whole is still universe sized and has criteria in other areas.
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