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Dragon Ball Heroes/Xenoverse Infinite speed

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It isn't a lie at all from what I saw in the last threads, most of the staff agreed was mentioned multiple times I think Ant mentioned it that.
 
That's because the World of void doesn't any have time is actually contradicted:

Time actually passes in the WoV. The tournament itself lasts for 48 minutes. The Demon Real is outright outside of the flow of time of the Multiverse.

There are far weaker characters there, not only the top tiers of the verse, unlike in the Demon Realm.

The hit can use his regular temporal abilities, while it's implied that they wouldn't work in the Demon Realm because of the lack of time.

The Demon Realm is far more consistent than the WoV. Comparing them is a stretch.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
It isn't a lie at all from what I saw in the last threads, most of the staff agreed was mentioned multiple times I think Ant mentioned it that.
Click to expand...
Since when? Most staff and admins are against this and have always been.
 
I wasn't on the other threads so I don't know about this.

Matt could you please explain me why isn't accepted as void? And which feats contradicts this?
 
@DMB

You still have presented no evidence that it should be taken at face value as an actual void when all you have are statements of "This place is outside of time". Which can just mean it's outside the timeline or the multiverse and inhabiting its own plane.

Which knowing the OP they'll push to be a 6D space above a 5D multiverse because of course that's a reasonable interpretation.
 
Calaca Vs said:
Matt could you please explain me why isn't accepted as void? And which feats contradicts this?
Click to expand...
Because there's nothing proving it as a true legitimate void which would require infinite speed to move in. There's just usual vague statements about existin outside of time / history. Which has never been enough.

And literally every single feat from both weaker characters and similarly powerful characters isn't infinite. Hell, there's a lot of stuff which is objectively slower than light if we actually measure.
 
"

Bluetrekking

reply to #329

Agree: 29 (Gargoyle, Ever, Knight, Ryukama, Glass, Kep, Riki, Dieno, Amexim, Dragon, Ryu, Asnav, Julian, Zenkai, Rapid, Hrish, Quantu, Ultima, Kaltias, DMB, Pachi (Demon Gods only), Hst, Straika, Dark649, Frantzy, Dziga, DDM, UMR, Warren)

Disagree: 4 (TheUpgrademan, Matt, Fire, Maverick)

Neutral: 6 (Seed, Cal, Sera, Dodo, Velox, Js)

Probably the most agreements I've seen on a CRT."
 
Ultima changed his mind and I'm pretty sure Ever doesn't agree to it either. I've seen Dark649 be against it too as has been Dragon and Kaltias.

So I seriously doubt this list.

Edit:

Yep, just checking in a lot of the agreements were due to statements that were later debunked rendering them unusable.
 
Which is my only grasp with the OP's reasoning.

I simply wanted to debate whether it had time or not, but I don't think it would be an outlier if it didn't.
 
Well I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing with this but it seems that if legit this only applies to the Top Tiers of DBH/X so I don't see a real problem. Inconsistencies within speed exists in every verse so I don't think that argument of yours is reliable enough to decide if this is an outlier or not.
 
And it's definitely more than just "a vague statement".

I just want to know if the Realm itself doesn't have time, or if it's just outside of the flow of time of the multiverse, and has one of its own.
 
DMB 1 said:
And it's definitely more than just "a vague statement".
I just want to know if the Realm itself doesn't have time, or if it's just outside of the flow of time of the multiverse, and has one of its own.
Click to expand...
Given that characters are able to perceive events progressing linearly in it, still communicate, move in observably measurable timeframes, etc. It's the later almost without question.
 
There are characters with infinite speed that can have a perfectly normal conversation without acknowledging the flow of time being altered or nonexistent.

Fiction doesn't even do that many times.
 
@DMB 1

Except actual timeless voids (Type 3) have more than just statements. They depict the actual effects that a realm without time would have on its inhabitants and the people who enter it. Such as in Final Fantasy XIII
 
Are they really Cal? Because something like the Expanse from Shin Megami Tensei doesn't contradict itself.
 
We specifically had the Void discussion and limited what the accept as infinite speed for voids for cases like this. Without functionally showing timelessness a statement isn't enough.
 
Isn't this incredibly inconsistent? Shouldn't 2 beings that have infinite speed be stalemating each other if they are equal in much of everything? Wouldn't they need an infinite amount of staimina too, and they are seen being drain and tired?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
@DMB 1
Except actual timeless voids (Type 3) have more than just statements. They depict the actual effects that a realm without time would have on its inhabitants and the people who enter it. Such as in Final Fantasy XIII
Click to expand...
Would the events and scenarios that SSBXeno573 showcased count?

This is what I mean:

"Xeno Goku's SS4 transformation warps/messes with time. However, the Kaioshin of Time reassures him that the Demon Realm isn't a part of time.

Source: https://imgur.com/a/sQbLra1

https://imgur.com/a/0nxM2

Pretty sure him being able to freely using his SS4 form without warping time shows this

We also have Chronoa stopping Mira in time. Mira is so fast that he manages to get out of it. Trunks then comments on Mira's speed by stating "so fast! In just an instant"

Source: https://imgur.com/a/INNsf"
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
You don't get infinite speed for getting out of a time stop. That's just time stop resistance.
Click to expand...
it really depends on how its done, but 90% of the time. this is it.
 
also that scan os mira escaping a time freeze. He flexed his ki to escape the time freeze, and then after he finally escapes it he blitzes trunks That shows resistance to time stop.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
You don't get infinite speed for getting out of a time stop. That's just time stop resistance.
Click to expand...
I was talking about the scenario in where Goku effects time when going Super Saiyan 4, and Chronoa says that they don't have to worry about effecting time because there is no time in the Demon Realm.

This part:

"Xeno Goku's SS4 transformation warps/messes with time. However, the Kaioshin of Time reassures him that the Demon Realm isn't a part of time.

Source: https://imgur.com/a/sQbLra1

https://imgur.com/a/0nxM2

Pretty sure him being able to freely using his SS4 form without warping time shows this"
 
@Shadow If you get out of a time stop in an instant without struggling, then it is infinite speed.
 
It seems like this suggestion has been rejected. Should we close this thread?
 
Assaltwaffle said:
We specifically had the Void discussion and limited what the accept as infinite speed for voids for cases like this. Without functionally showing timelessness a statement isn't enough.
Click to expand...
Demons like Demigra and the Timebreakers exists as energy, and can function while sealed and may not even need to physical body to function..

It dose show functionality of a timeless Void, Demons exist off as their own energy without a physical body, they can exist in multiple points of history simultaniously at the same time, they don't have a physical body and their existance has been sealed away for god knows how long. They can get energy clones who cam exist in multiple places in space time all at the same time.


. And example being Xenoverse 1 Demigra fighting the patrollers while sending energy clones to keep Beerus occupied or Fuu, replacing himself with his illusionary clone to tire out the time patroller and ssjb Goku till the Supreme kai of time came to forgive him.


Other cases for timeless void would be Hits dimension which also functions off as a timeless void,this shows the functionality of a timeless void but isn't called a timeless void.


Future Zeno's erased world, "Pilaf claimed the Goku and Trunk's journey to find Future Zeno took only an instance", and in that Multiverse everything was erased.


Worst case of a timeless Void would be the World of Void, but even then one can easily say the the Grand Priest created time to give to the timeless void, but allowing a 48 minute tournament.


There are three version of a timeless of voids in just canon Dragon Ball Super but the Demon realm is still the best one that shows they are truelly timeless by not even existing. and existing only of as energy or light of a god or demon.

.

The case for the Demon Realm to be timeless void would be the best version of a true timeless void in Dragon Ball, so timeless that it probally doesn't exist in canon continuity. and exist only as Video Games.
 
Warren Valion said:
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
You don't get infinite speed for getting out of a time stop. That's just time stop resistance.
Click to expand...
I was talking about the scenario in where Goku effects time when going Super Saiyan 4, and Chronoa says that they don't have to worry about effecting time because there is no time in the Demon Realm.
This part:

"Xeno Goku's SS4 transformation warps/messes with time. However, the Kaioshin of Time reassures him that the Demon Realm isn't a part of time.

Source: https://imgur.com/a/sQbLra1

https://imgur.com/a/0nxM2

Pretty sure him being able to freely using his SS4 form without warping time shows this"
Click to expand...
 
Before closing this, I'd wait forthe OP to reply, or for SSJRyu to come to this thread, since he's knowledgeable on the topic.
 
There hasn't even been a reason as to why it isn't a real void

Goku was forbidden to use SSJ4 because it was affect time, but when in the Demon Realm, he was allowed to use it as much as he wanted, becuase time doesn't exist there, it was even stated to be outside time's flow. Stated by the kaioshin of time herself. That's the epitome of a reliable source

@Ant

How was it rejected? A lot of staff agree to it
 
So I don't get the arguments against it right now. Statements are unreliable, they're never accurate ever? is what I'm hearing?

Doesn't make a lot of sense tbh. Goku wasn't allowed to use Super Saiyan 4 since it'd warp time, but was allowed free reign to do just whatever in the Demon Realm because there's an explicit LACK of time. This is... pretty blatant. X Move has an effect of harming Time itself when used, so character doesn't use it normally. Character goes to A Location and is allowed to use X Move without risk of harming any Time. Ergo, A Location has no time to harm. Also supported by the fact that there's statements that says the Demon Realm is outside of time anyways. Not in the World of the Void sense; but in the actual sense . Sort of like how if an Object naturally rips apart reality and creates holes in existence, if it stops doing so after moving to a location, that'd mean there's no traditional existence there for the object to rip apart (Barring stuff like magic or verse mechanics).

Also I saw the argument that people can see movement linearly, therefore it's not infinite. This flat out ignoes cinematic timing, the fact that y'know... us viewers has to see the action, along with the fact that Dragon Ball Characters literally infinitely restrict themselves to lower dimensional levels when off-guard all the flipping time. Case in point, within CANON, Jiren. Or Whis saying "Ow" to Goku's bite when training even though Goku was at max 3-A at the time. So characters restricting themselves so that lower level characters can see them move is no argument that "They're not infinite speed".

Also I'm fairly sure most of the time, when our villains get serious, they're fast enough to flat out just speed blitz everyone to the point that nobody could react anyways so there's no real reason to say that lower tier characters are able to keep up with the higher tiers that are supposedly able to reach Infinite Speeds barring In-Character stuff like Arrogance (Lowering power level) or say, Instinct (Goku dropping his guard).
 
Antvasima said:
It seems like this suggestion has been rejected. Should we close this thread?
Click to expand...
Very bad idea, a lot of guys agree with this, i don't think close a thread like this is good.
 
I think the biggest issue I see with this is consistency


Also, I want to point out. Mira escaping a time stop was time stop resistance. He flexed his ki, and the proceeded to blitz after time freeze was disabled on him.

[Edit] I don't think this should be accepted under the basis of "many people agree with this." This is something that needs to be picked apart and looked at from all angles.

[Edit#2] is there even any othee instances of infinite speed, by any other means apart from the Dark Demon Realm, that isn't a misunderstood, or taken out of context scan?
 
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