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Dragon Ball GT Upgrades

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Well, since everybody seem to agree, I do not see the reason for continuing to talk about this here, as nothing will happen until Kepekley23's staff thread anyway.
 
@DMB

That's a different topic.

@Ryu

What about the Universal Spirit Bomb? Not to mention if the area is accepted or at least acknowledged to be possibly infinite, wouldn't that suggest a possibly High 3-A or possibly 3-A rating? Like how DBS characters were ranked pre-FT arc? (Second not the first for that)
 
Just because he gathered energy from life forms across the universe does not mean it has the energy to instantly destroy the universe. All we can rate it from is the fact that it obliterated Omega Shenron.

Also no infinite universe is definitely not getting accepted.
 
Well, okay, but even if the High 3-A thing isn't valid, wouldn't a 3-A or possibly 3-A for that? If it's more powerful than the NKB, then that might suggest that IMO. No overplaying here whatsoever. @Hadou If anything, that more supports top tier GT being 3-A, but not Buu.
 
Simply being more powerful than a 3-B attack doesn't warrant 3-A.
 
Ryukama said:
I know we hate using the SSJ multipliers (even though they come from the same guides we're basing 4 galaxies off of lol). However SSJ1 has to be at least more than a 20x increase, since it's stronger than KKx20. And GT Base Goku is superior to SSJ3 Z Goku.

So if Kep's blog for anime Kid Buu gets accepted, then most people worth a damn in GT would be 3-C. Since you'd only have to be 1/10 Kid Buu to be 3-C.

I then think Omega Shenron and SSJ4 Gogeta should be 3-B since the Negative Karma Ball can gradually destroy the universe (which 4 galaxies has now been thoroughly debunked) in a relatively short timeframe.
Click to expand...
I agree with Multi-Galaxy level GT top tiers because of that reason
 
No, but if the attack was going to destroy the universe in a short amount of time, insta-destroying OS would highly hint at the second attack indeed being Universal.
 
It doesn't really work that way. You can be many many times 3-B (enough times to one shot a 3-B like OS) yet still not 3-A. It's a real wide gap.
 
I'm aware of the distances in AP. It's more because OS's attack isn't a quantifiable one. (For instance, does it show the number of galaxies destroyed by it?) If the universe is considered bigger than ours, wouldn't that also play a part into it?
 
If Omega Shenron's Attack was going to be universal overtime, wouldn't he get "3-B, 3-A overtime"?
 
@Aeyu It'd be unquantifiably stronger than an unquantifiably 3-B attack. We'd just go with 3-B still in that case.

@Akreious AP and Tier is what you can do in a single attack. Not gradually over time. It'd be 3-B since you'd have to have a single attack that strong to be able to destroy the universe gradually in that timeframe.
 
TheHadouCyberspaceWitch said:
Well, no, the guidebooks say that the universe is endless and that there are infinite galaxies.
But this same guidebook says that Heaven is as big as the Universe, and the Afterlife was bigger than that. This would make Kid Buu High 3-A due to shaking it in his fight with Goku, unless we consider that an outlier.
Click to expand...


When Kid Buu had shake the Afterlife in the Anime?

The only times i remember where the Afterlife was be affected during a fight was either during Fusion Reborn when Goku was turn intro his SSj3 Form (which was literally warping the entire dimension, like Toppo) and during GT where Kid Goku was power uping when he was trap in Hell (which was able to shake King Yemma's palace).

But i agree, the Mortal Universe (or Living World) in the Dragon Ball-verse was always show to be more than just mere 4 galaxies, in both cannon and non cannon.

And i do think that DBGT characters should be placed at 3-C and 3-B to possible 3-A, DBZ Anime had already characters like Buuhan and Vegito who were powerful enough to be capable of destroy the Mortal Universe (even if via chair reaction) and Super Baby Vegeta 2 was stated by GT Kid Goku to be stronger than Buuhan.
 
I think that the "boundless", "ever-expansive", etc statements are most likely hyperbole. So I am against High 3-A.

But according to me, 3-B would be the most accurate tier for Omega Shenron and ssj4 Gogeta. Rest should be 3-C according to Kep's calc.

Not sure how the kid Buu shaking the afterlife and Buuhan's threatening the universe feats are going to be treated.
 
"@Akreious AP and Tier is what you can do in a single attack. Not gradually over time. It'd be 3-B since you'd have to have a single attack that strong to be able to destroy the universe gradually in that timeframe."

But isn't that literally what Omega Shenron's Attack is? His karma death ball thing? He never fired off multiples of them, it's just that the sheer negative energy (from that one attack) was going to destroy the entire universe (overtime)
 
Destroying a universe over time can be done by any star tier character who is MFTL+ tho. I know you are talking about 1 attack but it's still overtime, so it would be 3-B imo.
 
What AKM sama said.
 
AKM sama said:
Not sure how the kid Buu shaking the afterlife and Buuhan's threatening the universe feats are going to be treated.
Click to expand...
Buuhan's Universal feat wasn't done by hax since he was using the same Vice Shout's technique that Super Buu and Gotenks have use to create a portal to escape the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, and we know that specific technique is something that everyone can perform with enough sheer power.

Which means that Anime Buuhan was indeed enough sheer power to affect the entire space-time of the Mortal Universe (the part of the universe most similar to our own) and weaken it to the point that it would be crushed by other dimensions.
 
I think the 3-A overtime thing is a single long sustained attack
 
These are other relevant feats that could be analyzed in the staff thread.

Janemba movie: -Goku shakes the entire afterlife, evidenced by the fact his earthquake reaches Grand Kai's tournament stage, located on opposite end of the afterlife according to the map of the universe.

-Janemba warps the afterlife and creates millions of crystal like structures that also reach Grand Kai's palace.

DBZ: -Buuhan threatening the universe with dimensional scream, confirmed by the databooks to be a legitimate threat to it

DBGT: -Omega Shenron threatening to destroy the entire universe in a relatively short time frame.
 
@DMB 1

Pretty sure that he never did it.

And also Kai is considered non cannon, as much as the original Anime.
 
@DMB 1, https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball#Notes

Notes [1]
Due to considerable contradictions, we do not consider Dragon Ball Kai as part of the main canon, and strictly use the original manga and Dragon Ball Super for scaling the characters.

While the way that we currently scale the characters is not perfect, it is the best solution to the illogical inconsistencies that DBS has given us.

Dragon Ball GT, due to not being canon, is also not used or referred to in this verse, and instead has a separate page that you can view here
 
@AKM sama

Hmm, wouldn't Omega and Gogeta be on the higher end of 3-B? If so, wouldn't SSJ4 Goku, SSJ4 Vegeta and anyone that scales to them also be 3-B, but to a lesser extent then Gogeta and Omega? Since Kid Buu's feat is calc'ed at 1/10 Galaxy level, then wouldn't GT Base Goku be At least 4-A already? Then just GT Goku as a SSJ should be 3-C, then SSJ4 should be much stronger then SSJ, and didn't a guidebook state that SSJ4 Gogeta was dozens of times stronger then a normal SSJ4? Meaning SSJ4 Gogeta would then be anywhere from 24x to 96x stronger then SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta, so wouldn't SSJ4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta being only dozens of times weaker then 3-B, still be 3-B? Cause GT Base Goku could be At least 4-A, with SSJ, SSJ2 and SSJ3 being 3-C, with SSJ4 ranging from At least 3-C to 3-B, but that's me
 
Please stop quoting each other back and forth. It turns the thread very hard to read.

Anyway, I do not remember the contradictions with Kai so well anymore, so you would have to ask Matthew Schroeder, but in any case, the DBZ manga is the original canon, and the DBS anime is the most elaborate official continuation.
 
I think that one of the contradictions was Frieza in the afterlife, but I am not sure.
 
I remember perfectly that Matthew discredited every one of the feats that are exposing.
Omega shenron to destroy "the universe" had to pollute the planet by planet, to delete a Galaxy. All with preparation. Goku SSJ3 Shaking the other world, assuming it is the size of the universe, calculate as a feat 4-A. http://web.archive.org/web/20160727...all-super-feats.1042070/page-17#post-54365048
Reality warping Janemba does not scale their physical characteristics. The feat of dimensional colapse is a side effect. If still it is not, it should be considered outlier.

Obviously I disagree with that are galaxy or multi-galaxy lvl. Sorry for my bad English.
 
@Kepekley23

Okay. Would you be willing to organise all of Ryukama's points, along with your own new calculation into a highlighted staff thread?

It is probably best to invite Matthew as well.
 
The Super Saiyan boost on GT is only 2-3x, since General Rildo said Base Goku was "less than half" of Super Saiyan Goku:

  • Episode 19
  • Time: 19m40s
  • Context: Rild senses Goku's ki after Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan
  • Rild: "Up to now, you haven't been putting out half of your power."
So they don't scale until then.

Also, the difference between baseline Galaxy level and Kid Boo's feat is roughly 100 times, not 10.

So I feel like it'd be hard to know who scales from this. Maybe only Super 17 level and above?
 
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