Dragon Ball GT Upgrades

[Antvasima]

Well, I do not personally mind, but given that this has been controversial in the past, it seems best to get the rest of the staff on board.

 

[Ryukama]

@Aeyu I personally think Negative Karma Ball is 3-B, since it would've gradually destroyed the universe over not that horrifically short of a time. But it'd depend on what the majority agrees on.

And of course you can speak there.

 

[ByAsura]

@TheHadouCyberspaceWitch
Ssshhhh let them live out their fantasy

Arale is Omnipotent, downplayer.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

If we're using the guidebook, the Negative Karma Ball should be High 3-A. If not, I agree with Ryu that it should be 3-B.

 

[ByAsura]

At least we can't say the same thing about Super.

 

[AKM sama]

@Aeyu I personally think Negative Karma Ball is 3-B, since it would've gradually destroyed the universe over not that horrifically short of a time. But it'd depend on what the majority agrees on.
And of course you can speak there.

Stop stealing words from my mouth. Like seriously.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we have agreed upon a revision now, but still have to wait for Kepekley to start his GT revision thread.

Perhaps we should close this thread in the meantime?

 

[Firestorm808]

I brought up the whole thing about there being 6 galaxies before the current 4, and now we are actually talking about it. This is great.

 

[DBZMLP12345]

So, if we go by the Karma Ball thing, Omega and SSJ4 Gogeta could be upgraded from 4-A to possibly 3-B? Awesome, reason why I say 3-B is because Omega was going to destroy the Universe over an unknown period of time, even though it should be a short time, that and a Spirit Bomb with energy throughout the Universe was enough to one shot Omega, something SSJ4 Gogeta couldn't do with his Big Bang Kamehameha from what was shown, however SSJ4 Gogeta and Omega should be very close to Universal regardless, I personally would put Gogeta and Omega at At least 3-B

 

[Akreious]

How would we quantify Omega Shenron gradually destroying an INFINITE sized Universe? Eventually High 3-A? Which makes no sense since High 3-A infinitely >s normal 3-A

 

[AguilaR101]

DBZ Galaxies in filler

I did a quick compilation of all the galaxies we are shown in DBZ, they are all visually different from one another so this definitely shows there are more than 4 galaxies.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I think it should be clarified whether or not we are using the guidebook. If we are, they should be High 3-A.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

If Omega Shenron would've destroyed an infinite universe in any amount of time, he should be High 3-A.

 

[Ryukama]

Also to address the popular "infinite is a hyperbole" argument that is often used.

Okay maybe infinite isn't meant to be literal. However you can't say that infinite, endless, innumerable and countless would be used to hyperbolically describe a mere 4 galaxies.

Even if the infinite statements are hyperboles, it doesn't change that

• The Daizenushuu still calls North, South, East and West units of galaxies.

• The mortal realm is directly stated to resemble reality and be based off the actual universe.

• DBZ and GT have literally shown more than 4 galaxies before. And after at least 2 galaxies were destroyed.

• We always assume a universe in a series is the size of ours until proven otherwise. And a statement from a guide we never use that the show and even the guide itself horrifically contradicts is not proof at all.

My main point in bringing up all these infinite statements isn't to say the DB verse is infinite. Rather to show the hypocritical cherrypicking in taking that one 4 galaxy statement, then discarding all these statements that the universe is infinite from that same guide. Also these statements still logically disprove 4 galaxies, even if they don't prove infinite universe.

 

[Ryukama]

@AguilaR101 Thank you very much.

 

[Aeyu]

I think that 3-A and High 3-A are both reasonable, as well as 3-B and At least 3-B, but I am heavily convinced that 4-A and 3-C are currently erroneous ratings.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Oh, well, if we aren't using the guide at all, then I agree with the High 3-A rating.

The narration in GT said that boundless galaxies exist in GT. While this could also be hyperbole, this could further support that there are obviously more than four.

 

[Bluetrekking]

Actually, 5 galaxies were destroyed in DBZ/GT:

The evil dragon was stated to have destroyed the galaxies around the planet it arrived on - at least 2 galaxies

Broly destroys a galaxy - 1 galaxy

Kid Buu was stated to have destroyed galaxies- at least 2 galaxies

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Broly isn't canon to even the DBZ anime or GT.

 

[Bluetrekking]

We consider GT, movies and the anime 1 continuity.

 

[Ryukama]

Broly isn't canon to even the DBZ anime or GT.

This site says that it is. So that'd be even worse for the 4 galaxy argument.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Oh, well, nevermind. XD

So is that Real 4D movie just, like, uhm, nothing here?

 

[Ryukama]

Oh, well, nevermind. XD
So is that Real 4D movie just, like, uhm, nothing here?

Goku fusing with literally me to defeat Super Saiyan God Broly is obviously canon

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I've seen people wank Gokudience to the point of him being beyond The-One-Above-All because The-One-Above-All is fiction and Gokudience is an amalgamation of many real life people who watched the movie.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

https://imgur.com/gallery/U4WNO

Nevermind, it was Bat-Mite, not The-One-Above-All. He might have also said TOAA, though, I am pretty sure I remember that. XD

 

[DMB_1]

Also, wasn't Omega Shenron's Crimson Minus energy Power Ball going to destroy not only the galaxy, but also the entire Universe, including the Kaioshin realm? If I remember correctly, Kibitoshin said something lke "we gotta get out of here immediately". Omega himself said that his attacck would have consumed the enire Universe (not specifying in how much time).

 

[Aeyu]

@DMB 1

That's why I stated a 3-A rating for the top tiers, although High 3-A could also work.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Wait, it was also going to destroy the Afterlife?

 

[DBZMLP12345]

If we are giving High 3-A to GT's Top Tier's, shouldn't BoG Arc SSJ God Goku and every SSJ Blue level fighter that's above him also get High 3-A then? I mean God Goku and Beerus already did a Universal feat similar to what Omega did, SSJ4 Gogeta even nullified Omega's Karma ball which threatened the Universe with a kick, Beerus during BoG while he was Suppressed to God Goku's level also nullified an attack capable of destroying the Universe, personally I would put GT's top tiers at 3-A at most

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Universes visually aren't infinite in DBS.

 

[Bluetrekking]

@DBZ MLP, Probably not since Burma states in Super that the universe has an edge, implying that is is finite.

 

[Akreious]

GT and Super are different continuities with different cosmologies. So no, the don't scale. At least not as far as we know. But hey, this also means all those people that says SSJ4>SSGod were right.

 

[Aeyu]

Basically everything that's been stated above.

Also yes, the SSJ4 > SSJG thing might actually be legit.

 

[Ryukama]

Universes visually aren't infinite

^This. Again me bringing up the infinite statements was not to say that the universe is infinite, rather to show that the majority of Daizenshuu's statements on the universe severely contradict the one cherrypicked 4 galaxy statement being used.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Well, if we're using the Daizenshü, many things imply that the universe is infinite. But in Super, they are visually not infinite.

 

[Aeyu]

I heavily agree that the 4 galaxies things needs to be permanently rejected.

(this whole thread is really funny to me since I was literally thinking about this yesterday)

 

[DBZMLP12345]

I still think the God forms are above SSJ4, but I do agree that GT characters are At least Multi-Galaxy level instead of not even Galaxy

 

[Akreious]

Technically the God forms are, being MUUUUCH higher in speed and as of ToP, they're in tier 2.

 

[DMB_1]

Technically the God forms are, being MUUUUCH higher in speed and as of ToP, they're in tier 2.

Does anyone know how Goku is getting infinitely stronger in a matter of minutes in the ToP by just... Standing?

 

[Ryukama]

I know we hate using the SSJ multipliers (even though they come from the same guides we're basing 4 galaxies off of lol). However SSJ1 has to be at least more than a 20x increase, since it's stronger than KKx20. And GT Base Goku is superior to SSJ3 Z Goku.

So if Kep's blog for anime Kid Buu gets accepted, then most people worth a damn in GT would be 3-C. Since you'd only have to be 1/10 Kid Buu to be 3-C.

I then think Omega Shenron and SSJ4 Gogeta should be 3-B since the Negative Karma Ball can gradually destroy the universe (which 4 galaxies has now been thoroughly debunked) in a relatively short timeframe.