Dragon Ball Cosmology Revision

[Stefano4444]

If RoSaT is gone, then there is nothing for timeline that can be done.

To be completely honest, i'm also begin to question the notion of a timeline be 2-C/2-B/2-A all together.

Feats involving separated pocket dimensions are not Low 2-C due of them be smaller than entire space-time continuum, so on what logic we don't do the same with parallel universes (regardless if they are separated space-times or not)?

Because they are as big as/bigger than the observable universe? But them existing within a timeline should automatically put them on a size below the space-time continuum, an object that we already treat it as be infinite.

Perhaps the notion of parallel universe be Low 2-C has been always wrong from the beginning, perhaps Tier 2 may need to be purely restricted to only timelines.

 

[KLOL506]

temporal axises

Plural of axis is axes BTW, just a small note

 

[Reiner04]

To be completely honest, i'm also begin to question the notion of timeline be 2-C/2-B/2-A all together.

Feats involving separated pocket dimensions are not Low 2-C due of them be smaller than entire space-time continuum, so on what logic we don't do the same with parallel universes (regardless if they are separated space-time)?

Because they are as big as/bigger than the observable universe? But them existing within a timeline should automatically put them on a size below the space-time continuum, an object that we already treat it as be infinite.

Perhaps the notion of parallel universe be Low 2-C has been always wrong, perhaps Tier 2 may need to be purely restricted to only timelines.

They still indeed are restricted to timeline, A universe is by definition a timeline but as per our standards how fundamental destruction of universe is can vary as per context.

For a timeline containing multiple Dimensions, universes, etc. It's pretty obvious and in our tiering system that they wouldn't qualify easily. They must have a higher dimensional Axis mentioned or distance between them must be atleast to say have to be unaccessible through flight or cannot be transversed. But when comes to dragonball, all this things just shatter off for them being mere 3A structures.

 

[Stefano4444]

They must have a higher dimensional Axis mentioned or distance between them must be unaccessible through flight or cannot be transversed.

So something like with DMC's Cosmology?

 

[Reiner04]

So something like with DMC's Cosmology?

Don't really know about DMC.

 

[Greatsage13th]

hmm

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

So something like with DMC's Cosmology?

I believe DMC does not have anything like that, but it is the world of demons that 9D, something like that, that I remember

 

[KLOL506]

So something like with DMC's Cosmology?

DMC cosmology is wildly different from Dragon Ball, even before 1-C happened they were accepted as legitimate separate space-time continuums separate from each other with there own laws of time and space with physical travel being impossible without the realms merging or portals, where the Demon World viewed the Human World as nothing more than an insignificant ray of light.

 

[Omegabronic]

The twitter blog is talking about characters, however the translation is slightly off


It talking about characters that transcend space-time, starting from Beerus, God of Destruction. Now the contexts is interesting. each God of Destruction govern their respective universe, however Beerus is stated to transcend space-time, what do this mean in contexts he transcended the space-time of his own universe or Universe 7, this also scale to Angel like Whis and above. Also since they transcend space-time, they can well go to different universe

do you have proof that it means that instead of a simple talk about his power?

 

[Reiner04]

I mean characters transcending time and space, I am unsure how it is connected to universes being separate spacetime in the first place...

Like beerus lives outside of U7 and so transcend time and space is not even a thing to context it there.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Plural of axis is axes BTW, just a small note

Axes sounds like a plural for ax/axe.

But anyway, Luffy also linked advertisement scans that described U6 and U7 as having different histories; not just the timelines stated in the Anime. Also, literally every counter argument made against the statements are things Executor brought up as not counter arguments against different timelines.

Also; let's pretend for a second that SDB's and Whis didn't have dimensional travel, the flight taking some considerable amount of time would have only disproved the universes having different bodies of space, not against them having different temporal axes. Omegabronic literally keeps bringing up "Oh he flew and it wasn't via portals or teleportation, so they can't be different timelines" despite agreeing with them being different bodies of space and no offense can't seem to stay consistent when it comes to the "Body of space" arguments. But dimensional travel was agreed via Whis' warp statements, face value scans that Universes are different bodies of space, and SDB by process of elimination would also have the same Dimensional Travel flight Whis has. So they absolutely can't be the same body of space and we are talking about idea about temporal axes now. Whis and SDB's flying are derailing circular topics now.

But anyway, for other reasons Executor and Luffy brought up, I still think the Universes being Low 2-C and Timelines being 2-C sized are still legit. Transcending time and space, or "Different history" statements are what I think are fine for considering their destruction feats Tier 2.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

It talking about characters that transcend space-time, starting from Beerus, God of Destruction. Now the contexts is interesting. each God of Destruction govern their respective universe, however Beerus is stated to transcend space-time, what do this mean in contexts he transcended the space-time of his own universe or Universe 7, this also scale to Angel like Whis and above. Also since they transcend space-time, they can well go to different universe

Not a knock, but Ian clarifies that the heading is "a cheeky reference to the content of the series spanning multiple universes and timelines, with its characters coming from all over", and the phrase "transcending space and time" has, without failure, meant "being able to travel through time" in Dragon Ball.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Axes sounds like a plural for ax/axe.

But anyway, Luffy also linked advertisement scans that described U6 and U7 as having different histories; not just the timelines stated in the Anime. Also, literally every counter argument made against the statements are things Executor brought up as not counter arguments against different timelines.

Also; let's pretend for a second that SDB's and Whis didn't have dimensional travel, the flight taking some considerable amount of time would have only disproved the universes having different bodies of space, not against them having different temporal axes. Omegabronic literally keeps bringing up "Oh he flew and it wasn't via portals or teleportation, so they can't be different timelines" despite agreeing with them being different bodies of space and no offense can't seem to stay consistent when it comes to the "Body of space" arguments. But dimensional travel was agreed via Whis' warp statements, face value scans that Universes are different bodies of space, and SDB by process of elimination would also have the same Dimensional Travel flight Whis has. So they absolutely can't be the same body of space and we are talking about idea about temporal axes now. Whis and SDB's flying are derailing circular topics now.

But anyway, for other reasons Executor and Luffy brought up, I still think the Universes being Low 2-C and Timelines being 2-C sized are still legit. Transcending time and space, or "Different history" statements are what I think are fine for considering their destruction feats Tier 2.

I think something needs to be done here, other admins and moderators don't seem to like it, and there's no way this can go forward, the arguments have all been refuted, I think we should remove the time room from the universe and place it as part of the macrocosm (only which with an addition explaining why it is part of the macrocosm), and with the statement we brought about different histories equals different time flow (as explained by Trunks)

And with new evidence that something separates all Universes, like dimensions and dimensional barriers or else we can just add the afterlife having different space-time or something like that, there is mention of him not having the concept of time in more than three media, too can't forget Vietthai's argument

There is nothing else to be done here, other than closing and being able to change over part of the time room while still being part of the same macrocosm.

You can also notice that the room of time has always been in a different world than the Universe, it was stated in the first quotes when it appeared, Freeza's speech is not a new argument, but an old one, as it is still part of the macrocosm.

 

[KLOL506]

Seems like I can contribute to this thread no more as I have nothing more to add. I will unwatch for the time being unless something new develops.

That being said, it's not going through without approval from staff and AKM. Especially AKM. He's tired and all but at the end of the day, this requires his attention and his attention above all else, given his bureaucrat status and him being the one who established the rules and all.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Seems like I can contribute to this thread no more as I have nothing more to add. I will unwatch for the time being unless something new develops.

That being said, it's not going through without approval from staff and AKM. Especially AKM. He's tired and all but at the end of the day, this requires his attention and his attention above all else, given his bureaucrat status and him being the one who established the rules and all.

I think so too, but AKM disappeared a few days ago, she commented here and didn't appear anymore, lol

 

[KLOL506]

I think so too, but AKM disappeared a few days ago, she commented here and didn't appear anymore, lol

AKM is a man my friend

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

AKM is a man my friend

I understand, but in his profile isn't she written? That's why I said "she", well I don't understand these things, but could I talk to her or come and discuss the matter?

 

[KLOL506]

I understand, but in his profile isn't she written? That's why I said "she", well I don't understand these things, but could I talk to her or come and discuss the matter?

Pretty sure it was a he last I checked, must've changed something then.

 

[KLOL506]

Seems like there's no pronouns written at all. Anyway... back to the main topic.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Pretty sure it was a he last I checked, must've changed something then.

I understand, last time I saw the profile it said "she", but let's stop that

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Seems like there's no pronouns written at all. Anyway... back to the main topic.

So, can you talk to our friend AKM to help us? Please

 

[KLOL506]

So, can you talk to our friend AKM to help us? Please

Tried once eons ago, told me we were on our own. Would prolly end the same way now. At this point, only an admin or a bureaucrat can get AKM to nudge.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Tried once eons ago, told me we were on our own. Would prolly end the same way now. At this point, only an admin or a bureaucrat can get AKM to nudge.

I see, so there's nothing else to do ;-;

 

[KLOL506]

I see, so there's nothing else to do ;-;

Aye. You're on your own now, laddie.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I was the one who talked to him last a few days ago, but hasn't responded since. But he has been real busy with RL stuff combined with being burned out from Dragon Ball threads altogether. And I also have RL work soon, so I don't think I am good condition to pressure him either.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I was the one who talked to him last a few days ago, but hasn't responded since. But he has been real busy with RL stuff combined with being burned out from Dragon Ball threads altogether. And I also have RL work soon, so I don't think I am good condition to pressure him either.

I understand, brothers, just rest well! and remember that working too hard is bad for your health, good job, friend

 

[Omegabronic]

I think something needs to be done here, other admins and moderators don't seem to like it, and there's no way this can go forward, the arguments have all been refuted, I think we should remove the time room from the universe and place it as part of the macrocosm (only which with an addition explaining why it is part of the macrocosm),

Thr granolah arc makes it clear that it isn't part of the macrocosm as explained in this very thread

and with the statement we brought about different histories equals different time flow (as explained by Trunks)

Trunks didn't said anything even remotely close to that, he only explained how his time travel altered history and created a new timeline, how is this even remotely conected to the universes?

And with new evidence that something separates all Universes, like dimensions and dimensional barriers

As said in the tier revisioj thread, dimensional barriers means nothing, they are different dimensions, that is all that it proves

or else we can just add the afterlife having different space-time or something like that, there is mention of him not having the concept of time in more than three media, too can't forget Vietthai's argument

This thread is not for this, the op notes to not discuss this in this thread, it is derailing

There is nothing else to be done here, other than closing and being able to change over part of the time room while still being part of the same macrocosm.

Staff votes are divided, stop trying to rush it, we need more staff and mods here

You can also notice that the room of time has always been in a different world than the Universe, it was stated in the first quotes when it appeared, Freeza's speech is not a new argument, but an old one, as it is still part of the macrocosm.

It isn't as per the granolah arc makes it clear

 

[ImmortalDread]

I saw a lot of bullshit here, but want to share this sandbox as this is currently the new tier 2 system

ImmortalDread/Space-time continuum

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Thr granolah arc makes it clear that it isn't part of the macrocosm as explained in this very thread


Trunks didn't said anything even remotely close to that, he only explained how his time travel altered history and created a new timeline, how is this even remotely conected to the universes?


As said in the tier revisioj thread, dimensional barriers means nothing, they are different dimensions, that is all that it proves


This thread is not for this, the op notes to not discuss this in this thread, it is derailing


Staff votes are divided, stop trying to rush it, we need more staff and mods here


It isn't as per the granolah arc makes it clear

just have a little tea to calm down, my friend, no Staff has appeared so far and I highly doubt they will, and this here is already refuted arguments, good luck repeating the same things there.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Thr granolah arc makes it clear that it isn't part of the macrocosm as explained in this very thread


Trunks didn't said anything even remotely close to that, he only explained how his time travel altered history and created a new timeline, how is this even remotely conected to the universes?


As said in the tier revisioj thread, dimensional barriers means nothing, they are different dimensions, that is all that it proves


This thread is not for this, the op notes to not discuss this in this thread, it is derailing


Staff votes are divided, stop trying to rush it, we need more staff and mods here


It isn't as per the granolah arc makes it clear

How did it make it clear it’s not within the macrocosm I already refuted that point since when it was talking about the strongest in universe 7 it’s implied not be Granolah and even stated not to be Granolah

 

[Omegabronic]

How did it make it clear it’s not within the macrocosm I already refuted that point since when it was talking about the strongest in universe 7 it’s implied not be Granolah and even stated not to be Granolah

Yes and that would still be a counter since freeza was still not considered even with him being inside a rosat, but also the wish itself, the dragon said that he will be "the strongest outside of the gods themselfs" gods in plural, the only god that it is in the living universe is beerus, so for it to be plural it must be also talking about the other realms of universe 7 and their gods

just have a little tea to calm down, my friend, no Staff has appeared so far and I highly doubt they will, and this here is already refuted arguments, good luck repeating the same things there.

This attitude is not very nice, alas you and i agree that we need more staff

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Yes and that would still be a counter since freeza was still not considered even with him being inside a rosat, but also the wish itself, the dragon said that he will be "the strongest outside of the gods themselfs" gods in plural, the only god that it is in the living universe is beerus, so for it to be plural it must be also talking about the other realms of universe 7 and their gods


This attitude is not very nice, alas you and i agree that we need more staff

Well is there any proof it reached the other realms besides the Living Realm?

 

[Omegabronic]

Well is there any proof it reached the other realms besides the Living Realm?

I just gave in the post you are answering

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I just gave in the post you are answering

The Granolah Arc doenst make it clear it said the wish doesn’t reach other dimensions which could actually mean it didn’t reach other dimensions like the afterlife and Kaioshin realm so it’s still consistent there’s not really anything that full on says it covered the full macrocosm and you would need explicit proof for that since it would contradict some things that were established and stated so proof is needed for this as the rosat being in universe 7 isn’t contradicted and is consistent with it referring to the living realm

 

[Omegabronic]

The Granolah Arc doenst make it clear it said the wish doesn’t reach other dimensions which could actually mean it didn’t reach other dimensions like the afterlife and Kaioshin realm so it’s still consistent there’s not really anything that full on says it covered the full macrocosm and you would need explicit proof for that since it would contradict some things that were established and stated so proof is needed for this as the rosat being in universe 7 isn’t contradicted and is consistent with it referring to the living realm

Read it again, the dragon specifies "gods" plural, the only god in the living universe is beerus, he sayong in plural indicates that it also considered the other gods in other realms, plus the fact that the oracle fish said that the strongest in universe 7 would come, with freeza still inside the rosat he would be considered part of universe 7 and would be called the strongest, but that didn't happen indicating thar it isn't part of the universe

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Read it again, the dragon specifies "gods" plural, the only god in the living universe is beerus, he sayong in plural indicates that it also considered the other gods in other realms, plus the fact that the oracle fish said that the strongest in universe 7 would come, with freeza still inside the rosat he would be considered part of universe 7 and would be called the strongest, but that didn't happen indicating thar it isn't part of the universe

Kami-Sama, Whis, Beerus, the only Gods who are alive.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Kami-Sama, Whis, Beerus, the only Gods who are alive.

The Supreme Kai exists in the Realm of the Kai; Beerus, Whis, and Dende exist in the Living Universe; and the Lord of Worlds, including the Grand Kai, exist in Other World. There are "gods" in all three worlds of Universe 7.

 

[Omegabronic]

Kami-Sama, Whis, Beerus, the only Gods who are alive.

whis is not a god, and the way the dragon talked it looks like more than 2

 

[pineappleman]

whis is not a god, and the way the dragon talked it looks like more than 2

can you link me the scan?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

whis is not a god

Beerus refers to Ultra Instinct as a "technique of the gods", Angels reside in the Heavenly Realm, and they have God Ki.

Speaking of Whis, though, when discussing Granolah's transformation, he says "Not long ago, something odd happened in this universe", which would only make if he was referring to the entirety of Universe 7, which corresponds with the Oracle Fish's prophecy. The only other way this phrasing could work is if the Living Universe is only one universe of many within Universe 7, which is an entirely separate can of worms completely unsubstantiated by solid evidence.

Oh, but, but, keeping up with the topic of Angels, Merus refers to the Room of Spirit and Time's progression of time alternative to the outside world's as the result of time dilation, which may imply that the Living Universe and the Room of Spirit and Time exist within the same space-time continuum, but experience the same time differently.