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Dragon Ball Cosmology Revision

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PrinceofPein said:
no mod or admin is readin 10 pages, I can assure you
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no administrator was reading the first few pages before and neither moderators, some team members are nauseous to touch DB, for reasons of being the same arguments used and the same thing to to make the 12 Universes have the same space-time, we spent more than 4 days on the front page without any administrator's opinion

But now came one with a picture of Pokemon
 
Firestorm808 said:
We know that all alternate timelines still exist after timeline changes.

Each timeline still has each of the 12 universes.

The universes have mirrored and parallel history.

This scenario sounds similar to the MCU Sacred Timeline, where one timeline contains multiple space-times. Am I misunderstanding something?
Click to expand...
.
 
omegabronic said:
why does this matter? it is a technique that it is teached to them, why is it so unreasonable to assume that some of the gods know or that some of the earlier gods knew how to use it?, also this implies that some gods attained in the past


i already explained why none of those means god nescesaraly, i would just be repeating myself at this point


okay i legiteimaly cannot understand your point anymore, what of the "things" are you reffering to?



this is the scan we started discussing about, the dragon considered the gods when making the wish, beerus is the only true god in the living universe, making the wish cover the other dimensions in the macrocosm as well
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Well the only gods who have UI are the angels and even in the anime it’s implied Beerus doesn’t have it and only does in the manga

also no for that since there can be gods in the living universe as shown above

also let’s make a new thread and close this one because this is too long and we’re arguing stuff like Whis being a god or not which is dumb
 
PrinceofPein said:
no mod or admin is readin 10 pages, I can assure you
Click to expand...
here is my summary, someone should make one of the other side and then we can create another thread


basically the only reason we accepted the 12 universes as space times was because of the rosat being an confirmed space time and being part of the universe, so it would branch along with it making accptable that other space times could be affect by time paradoxes that happen in just one of them, but as of now, the rosat was accepted as not being part of the universe anymore, that made it so that we had no reason to assume that the 12 universe multiverse in db were space times, since they were all affect by time paradoxes, this and plus the new standards for tier 2 where physical travel is impossible with 3D movement between space times and the need of having a higher 5D dimension separating the supossed space times for universes to be considered space times, in db both were disproven as the angels and the super dragon balls can travel between universes normally with flight and we have confirmed information that what is in between universes is not a higher dimension:


this one of null flower is about the neutral space that separates universes first shown in the tournament between uni 6 and 7
so basically all that makes the 12 universe not alternate spacetimes and just 3-A structures rather then low 2-C ones

edit: as pointed by executor_N0 the term most likely is referring to dimensional space, aka another dimension, but since the term for higher dimension is not used, then the end result is the same, also it is shown to just be a regular 3D cosmos with stars and planets and galaxies, which contradicts it being a higher dimension

there is also some points about how much all the different dimensions in the macrocosm are separated, but they are never said to be spatio temporal separated, they are just dimensions, not different space times, being a different dimension and having a dimensional barrier doesn't mean much doesn't mean much

there is also points about universes having different histories and events, but they are not proof of different times since the 12 universes aren't branches of eachother, they are their own indivudual places and this is no different than a country having a different history from another country

some brought points about the events from the black saga to say that different histories mean different space times, but the whole black saga talks about different timelines and not different universes that are inside said timelines

also some bring points about the time rings from each kai in each universe, but the time rings always comes from when different timelines are created, said timelines that have the 12 universes in them, so the time rings don't prove much regarding this topic
also as a bonus, Merus refers to the Room of Spirit and Time's progression of time alternative to the outside world's as the result of time dilation, which may imply that the Living Universe and the Room of Spirit and Time exist within the same space-time continuum, but experience the same time differently.

so since they are all affect by time paradoxes even when they are done in only a single universe, and the fact that there is no confirmation that they are space times, we should then go with the less assumption route and just make them 3-A structures
 
omegabronic said:
here is my summary, someone should make one of the other side and then we can create another thread


basically the only reason we accepted the 12 universes as space times was because of the rosat being an confirmed space time and being part of the universe, so it would branch along with it making accptable that other space times could be affect by time paradoxes that happen in just one of them, but as of now, the rosat was accepted as not being part of the universe anymore, that made it so that we had no reason to assume that the 12 universe multiverse in db were space times, since they were all affect by time paradoxes, this and plus the new standards for tier 2 where physical travel is impossible with 3D movement between space times and the need of having a higher 5D dimension separating the supossed space times for universes to be considered space times, in db both were disproven as the angels and the super dragon balls can travel between universes normally with flight and we have confirmed information that what is in between universes is not a higher dimension:


this one of null flower is about the neutral space that separates universes first shown in the tournament between uni 6 and 7
so basically all that makes the 12 universe not alternate spacetimes and just 3-A structures rather then low 2-C ones

edit: as pointed by executor_N0 the term most likely is referring to dimensional space, aka another dimension, but since the term for higher dimension is not used, then the end result is the same, also it is shown to just be a regular 3D cosmos with stars and planets and galaxies, which contradicts it being a higher dimension

there is also some points about how much all the different dimensions in the macrocosm are separated, but they are never said to be spatio temporal separated, they are just dimensions, not different space times, being a different dimension and having a dimensional barrier doesn't mean much doesn't mean much

there is also points about universes having different histories and events, but they are not proof of different times since the 12 universes aren't branches of eachother, they are their own indivudual places and this is no different than a country having a different history from another country

some brought points about the events from the black saga to say that different histories mean different space times, but the whole black saga talks about different timelines and not different universes that are inside said timelines

also some bring points about the time rings from each kai in each universe, but the time rings always comes from when different timelines are created, said timelines that have the 12 universes in them, so the time rings don't prove much regarding this topic
also as a bonus, Merus refers to the Room of Spirit and Time's progression of time alternative to the outside world's as the result of time dilation, which may imply that the Living Universe and the Room of Spirit and Time exist within the same space-time continuum, but experience the same time differently.

so since they are all affect by time paradoxes even when they are done in only a single universe, and the fact that there is no confirmation that they are space times, we should then go with the less assumption route and just make them 3-A structures
Click to expand...
why should this be placed? these arguments have been refuted throughout the thread, you're just doing the same here, it's going to be refuted again.
 
Reiner said:
So will the new thread be created?
Click to expand...
A lot of work, just repetition of what we have here, literally I'm tired of this, it's not just me but others, creating another topic will only generate more repetition and the same arguments, it's like was an infinite loop
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
But it's in the opinion of the staff
Click to expand...
considering that 3 completely agree with the downgrade, 1 agrees with the premise, and 1 agrees with the downgrade but prefered to be placed at neutral, you cannot say that all the staff agreed with the say "refutations" but then again how can we know when the thread is 10 pages long? we need a summary so that all the staff that commented here and new ones can give a opinion and understand this more clearly, no one is going to read a 10 page thread, we all gave our arguments, let us make another thread and not comment any further to let the staff give their opinion, if we want a conclusion on anything we need to do that
 
omegabronic said:
considering that 3 completely agree with the downgrade, 1 agrees with the premise, and 1 agrees with the downgrade but prefered to be placed at neutral, you cannot say that all the staff agreed with the say "refutations" but then again how can we know when the thread is 10 pages long? we need a summary so that all the staff that commented here and new ones can give a opinion and understand this more clearly, no one is going to read a 10 page thread, we all gave our arguments, let us make another thread and not comment any further to let the staff give their opinion, if we want a conclusion on anything we need to do that
Click to expand...
these three are not superior to the ones who voted against, so there's nothing to do, like a friend said, you're the only one who doesn't accept being refuted
 
omegabronic said:
considering that 3 completely agree with the downgrade, 1 agrees with the premise, and 1 agrees with the downgrade but prefered to be placed at neutral, you cannot say that all the staff agreed with the say "refutations" but then again how can we know when the thread is 10 pages long? we need a summary so that all the staff that commented here and new ones can give a opinion and understand this more clearly, no one is going to read a 10 page thread, we all gave our arguments, let us make another thread and not comment any further to let the staff give their opinion, if we want a conclusion on anything we need to do that
Click to expand...
the same thing will happen here, no admin or moderator showed up for days, do you guarantee that other moderators and admin will show up? Well not me, you will just repeat the same thing here.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
these three are not superior to the ones who voted against, so there's nothing to do
Click to expand...
there is only 2 who are against, their rank matter, but it is not outvoting 5 that agreed, but since we are not close to a consensus, we need a new thread, now if you would be so kind to make a summary instead of posting unnecessary posts that do nothing but make the thread longer, that would be apreciated

LuffyRuffy46307 said:
like a friend said, you're the only one who doesn't accept being refuted
Click to expand...
like a friend said, accusatory comments based on your personal beliefs are not helpful, can you please stop flooding? we need a summary, if you are so sure of your points then why haven't you make a summary yet? what is the hold up?
 
omegabronic said:
there is only 2 who are against, their rank matter, but it is not outvoting 5 that agreed, but since we are not close to a consensus, we need a new thread, now if you would be so kind to make a summary instead of posting unnecessary posts that do nothing but make the thread longer, that would be apreciated


like a friend said, accusatory comments based on your personal beliefs are not helpful, can you please stop flooding? we need a summary, if you are so sure of your points then why haven't you make a summary yet? what is the hold up?
Click to expand...
I don't know where you got those 5 from, you must have come from your imagination, it was only 3, one seems neutral

Why make more text? The arguments here have been refuted, this will only generate the same repetition, we already have more than three threads without a conclusion, so no, my friend, I will not make a summary so from here everything in this topic is my summary

More than 10 pages of all the refutation of your arguments, just take it and make a summary of ours, with all the arguments, you can start looking at the 10 pages and copy and paste, my points are right, as two administrators agreed on
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
I don't know where you got those 5 from, you must have come from your imagination, it was only 3, one seems neutral
Click to expand...
omegabronic said:
considering that 3 completely agree with the downgrade, 1 agrees with the premise, and 1 agrees with the downgrade but prefered to be placed at neutral
Click to expand...


LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Why make more text? The arguments here have been refuted, this will only generate the same repetition, we already have more than three threads without a conclusion, so no, my friend, I will not make a summary so from here everything in this topic is my summary
Click to expand...
your personal belief that it was refuted doesn't matter much tbh, also another thread would be strictly for staff with regular users not being able to comment, so we can stop this useless back and forth that happened and let the staff solve things, if you do not want to comment any further that is fine by me tho

LuffyRuffy46307 said:
More than 10 pages of all the refutation of your arguments, just take it and make a summary of ours, with all the arguments, you can start looking at the 10 pages and copy and paste
Click to expand...
why would i make a summary of points i do not even agree on? also do you think that i have the time or energy to go over 10 pages to make a summary of arguments i do not even agree on?

LuffyRuffy46307 said:
my points are right, as two administrators agreed on
Click to expand...
my points are right, as 3 staffs agreed on , see? this isn't an argument, this is an authority fallacy, if you are not going to be helpful, then please don't comment
 
omegabronic said:
your personal belief that it was refuted doesn't matter much tbh, also another thread would be strictly for staff with regular users not being able to comment, so we can stop this useless back and forth that happened and let the staff solve things, if you do not want to comment any further that is fine by me tho


why would i make a summary of points i do not even agree on? also do you think that i have the time or energy to go over 10 pages to make a summary of arguments i do not even agree on?


my points are right, as 3 staffs agreed on , see? this isn't an argument, this is an authority fallacy, if you are not going to be helpful, then please don't comment
Click to expand...
yeah, and you think I also have time? I'm at work, I'm tired of your rebutted and repetitive arguments, I'm just adding that creating another thread won't do anything
 
Firestorm808 said:
Will reply more later today.
Click to expand...
Screenshot_8.png
 
godofice said:
Can this thread be closed and a new thread with the arguments and counter arguments for both side as the OP and have more staff evaluation that doesn’t have petty arguments like Whis not being a god and being a mortal
Click to expand...
okay that is just disonest, when did anyone said that whis was a mortal?

but we should likely made a new thread yes
 
omegabronic said:
okay that is just disonest, when did anyone said that whis was a mortal?

but we should likely made a new thread yes
Click to expand...
Well mortals are what non deities/gods are referred to in DB but it doesn’t matter we should create a new thread cuz this is clogged
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Whis is an angel, not a god. (Though, Angels are ironically above gods not named Zeno in Dragon Ball lore)
Click to expand...
for sure
 
I think this thread should be moved to the discussion forum rather than closed so that regular users can keep discussing for a justification for 12 universes while a staff discussion thread should be made.
 
Reiner said:
I think this thread should be moved to the discussion forum rather than closed so that regular users can keep discussing for a justification for 12 universes while a staff discussion thread should be made.
Click to expand...
i guess but It seems like staff talk for a couple minutes and then dont ever respond again the only staff member who’s actively participating is DDM
 
godofice said:
i guess but It seems like staff talk for a couple minutes and then dont ever respond again the only staff member who’s actively participating is DDM
Click to expand...
staff are very busy people, most of them are revising in multiple threads for multiple verses or have stuff to do in real life
 
omegabronic said:
whis is a deity, he is an angel

but a new thread should be made yes
Click to expand...
I see deity as similar to god and with the scans I’ve shown where angels are referred to as god but it doesn’t do much for this thread so I dont wanna mention it that much but I want you to see where I’m coming from

Agreed
omegabronic said:
staff are very busy people, most of them are revising in multiple threads for multiple verses or have stuff to do in real life
Click to expand...
ik but I usually see a lot of staff just doesnt seem like they’re interested in this one
 
omegabronic said:
considering that 3 completely agree with the downgrade, 1 agrees with the premise, and 1 agrees with the downgrade but prefered to be placed at neutral, you cannot say that all the staff agreed with the say "refutations" but then again how can we know when the thread is 10 pages long? we need a summary so that all the staff that commented here and new ones can give a opinion and understand this more clearly, no one is going to read a 10 page thread, we all gave our arguments, let us make another thread and not comment any further to let the staff give their opinion, if we want a conclusion on anything we need to do that
Click to expand...
It’s actually only 3 that agreed. LordGriffin should be put in neutral as he said he won’t participate in this thread and leave it to other staffs. And who is other that agree? PrinceofPein? He is not a staff according to my knowledge. And DDM,Ant and Executor already agreed that the universes can stay Low-2C.
 
OneRhasstyBoi said:
It’s actually only 3 that agreed. LordGriffin should be put in neutral as he said he won’t participate in this thread and leave it to other staffs. And who is other that agree? PrinceofPein? He is not a staff according to my knowledge. And DDM,Ant and Executor already agreed that the universes can stay Low-2C.
Click to expand...
Yeah idk why prince of pein was put
 
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