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DOOM Discussion Thread

Firestorm808 said:
Immortality Type 4 or 5: Stated by Ahzrak that death wasn't permanent for the Slayer. "Too Angry to Die," the Slayer self-resurrected his rotting body to break out of Hell.
Click to expand...
I think type 4 is better than type 5 and we give the Slayer type 7 in his zombie state

also, he should get mind manipulation with Dreadmace since its effect is passive, so everytime DoomSlayer use it, then he basically hit your brain with mind hax


Also^2, is Heretic and Hexen are canon to doom? ask cuz idk why both are in same wiki that doom
 
Oliver_de_jesus said:
I think type 4 is better than type 5 and we give the Slayer type 7 in his zombie state

also, he should get mind manipulation with Dreadmace since its effect is passive, so everytime DoomSlayer use it, then he basically hit your brain with mind hax


Also^2, is Heretic and Hexen are canon to doom? ask cuz idk why both are in same wiki that doom
Click to expand...
Kind of, they were both developed by Raven software who’s done a lot of work for ID like the 2009 Wolfenstein and Quake 4. That and they both run on the Doom engine and were assisted by John Romero

There’s also a potential connection with Corvus (main character of Heretic 1/2) being an ancestor of BJ in RTCW, since at the beginning a sorcerer seals away the big bad of the game 1000 years before the start of the game, and hes very similar to Corvus even having the same grunt noise (which is shared with Doomguy). But that’s very much speculation at best
 
Firestorm808 said:
Powers and Abilities Addition CRT Draft
  • DOOM: The Dark Ages Key
    • Weapon Mastery (Proficient with a Shield, Flail, and Mace)
    • Martial Arts (Proficient in unarmed combat. Should be capable of performing the same Combo Punches, Palm Strikes, and Stomp Finishers done via a neural link in Atlans.)
    • Attack Reflection via Parry
    • Shockwave Generation via stomps and Ground Fissure Rune
    • Capable of enhancing the power of his weapons
    • Resistance to Paralysis Inducement (Resisted and broke out of Maykr restraints)
    • Paralysis Inducement via Shield Saw
    • Enhanced Mind and Madness Manipulation Resistance (Resistant to Chaos Realm objects which "presence distorts the mind" and "insidious whispers, which gnaw at the edges of the wielder’s sanity")
    • Transmutation?, Lightning/Electricity Manipulation, and Paralysis Inducement via Heaven Splitter Rune (Transform energy projectiles into a bolt of energy that calls down lightning on impact, stunning nearby targets)
    • Weapon Creation? and Homing Attack via Holy Swarm Rune (Unleashes a swarm of ethereal daggers that spread out and seek targets)
    • Weapon Enhancement (Can empower his weapons, even when piloting Atlans or his Dragon)
    • Immortality Type 4 or 5: Stated by Ahzrak that death wasn't permanent for the Slayer. "Too Angry to Die," the Slayer self-resurrected his rotting body to break out of Hell.
      • 4: Immortality via reincarnation or resurrection: Characters that are immortal because, whenever they die, they will simply reincarnate within another body or resurrect themselves at a later point in time.
    • Immortality Type 7 while in Zombie State
    • Rage Power (Confirmed by Hugo, the madder he gets, the stronger he gets, allowing him to defeat Transformed Ahzrak.)
  • DOOM (2016) Key
What else should be listed on the proposal?
Click to expand...
I personally believe he should have Abstract existence type 2, as he can't die permanently due to his rage.
Which also ties him that he's the embodiment of the concept of DOOM / the avatar of wrath etc.
 
Firestorm808 said:
It's up.

vsbattles.com

DOOM: The Dark Ages - Powers and Abilities Addition

DOOM: The Dark Ages / Post-Divinity Machine Key Accepted Weapon Mastery (Proficient with a Shield Saw, Flail, and Mace) Weapon Control (Capable of returning his shield on command and doing the Shield Recall Jump) Martial Arts (Proficient in unarmed combat. Should be capable of performing the...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Click to expand...
Sorry if I'm bothering you but I believe this bit of information might interest you.
I'm Watching the live stream now. Hugo implies that the slayer didn't need to be ressurected, he would've eventually found a way out of hell. This is the reason why they chose not to kill him because they knew he'd just wake up in hell. So the ritual to bring him back was a short cut because they were on a time crunch.
The moment this was answered was around 1:26:00 in the live stream. It's currently still going on.
 
MicDaniel said:
Sorry if I'm bothering you but I believe this bit of information might interest you.
I'm Watching the live stream now. Hugo implies that the slayer didn't need to be ressurected, he would've eventually found a way out of hell. This is the reason why they chose not to kill him because they knew he'd just wake up in hell. So the ritual to bring him back was a short cut because they were on a time crunch.
The moment this was answered was around 1:26:00 in the live stream. It's currently still going on.
Click to expand...
Can you link the livestream here? Would help a bit with that part
 
MicDaniel said:
Around 1:13:00 he answers the question more in depth .
Click to expand...
I know.

The ritual was a signal/beacon for the Slayer to follow back to Argent Dnur from Hell since Hell is connected to everywhere.
Oliver_de_jesus said:
post it in your thread
Click to expand...
I will. I'm waiting on the Youtube transcript to finish processing.

Joshua: Would the Slayer be able to return to the living world if the Sentinels didn't resurrect him?

Hugo: I know that he'd be alive in Hell.

Interrupt

Question: They want us to finish answering the resurrection question. Didn't we answer it?

Hugo: Go ahead. Go ahead. What is the resurrectioning question?

Joshua: Wasn't it the, if, you know, if he didn't get resurrected by the Sentinels. Oh, I guess you said something about him being in Hell. Remember? We were talking abou-.

Hugo: Oh right, so, so he would be in hell.

When he says we need something more permanent, it's because, for the Slayer's sins he
knows that he will go to hell, because the Slayer has committed mass, like you know, extermination.

He's killed a lot of stuff in his life, so, um, I think that, uh, he knows that he'd go to hell.

So where he wants to send him to is a place that he wouldn't be able to escape.

Then, um uh, Valen, you know, is willing to dabble in the dark arts just to try to send him a signal, a beacon, to try to bring him back, knowing that, you know, it's kind of a desperate attempt.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Tiering Thread is next.

I wasn't part of the previous tiering threads, and I would like the new justifications to use more concrete scaling and examples from the core series this time.
 
Firestorm, what's your opinion about the arguments i provided for the void?
As in, do you agree with my interpretation, or do you have contentions with it.
 
It would be preferable if you prefaced your justifications for each line item requirement for "qualitative superiority."

IE:
  • Requirement 1
    • Proof
  • Requirement 2
    • Proof
  • Etc.
 
I mean i agree, i wasn't planning on making a thread for it yet honestly.
Didn't even really want to bring the arguments up, until i was absolutely certain.
If i do make a thread, it'll be thorough tho, which is also why im most likely going to wait for the DLC

But do you agree with my interpretation and arguments, of what the codex themselves state?
 
Firestorm808 said:
While I do see the merit, we need more information to check all the boxes.
Click to expand...
Well yes, a bit more information would make it way easier to get it accepted, although in general, it should already check the boxes with the information we have available.
It's just that the wiki can be way more skeptical for major tiers like these.

And i don't like creating pointless threads, that too lol.

Either way, im already glad that you can see the merit in my argumentation.
 
Tiering Revision Draft: Questions, comments, or concerns?

Dark Ages Scaling Chain​

The Slayer < Enhanced Ahzrak < Transformed Prince Ahzrak < The Slayer w/ Rage Boost

All Post Divinity Machine Keys: higher with Power-ups and Rage Boost

Attack Potency:​

The Dark Ages: High Universe level (Capable of wielding and attacking with the "infinitely dense" Dreadmace), higher with Power-ups and Rage Boost (Defeated Transformed Prince Ahzrak), Up to Universe level+, possibly higher via the Demonic Crucible (It is a weapon said to have the power to corrupt all realms.)

2016: At least High Universe level, possibly higher (Stronger than before), higher with Power-ups and Rage Boost

Speed:​

The Dark Ages: At least Supersonic, likely higher (Faster than before. Comparable to if not quicker than most Demons), higher with Shield Bash

2016: At least Supersonic, likely higher (Likely much faster than before, can move this fast), higher with the Power-Ups and Runes. At least Hypersonic, likely higher attack speed with the Gauss Cannon

Lifting Strength:​

The Dark Ages: Infinite (Capable of wielding the "infinitely dense" Dreadmace), higher with Power-ups and Rage Boost

2016: Infinite, possibly higher (Stronger than before), higher with Power-ups and Rage Boost

Eternal: Infinite, likely higher (Stronger than before), higher with Power-ups and Rage Boost

Striking Strength:​

The Dark Ages: High Universe level (Capable of wielding the "infinitely dense" Dreadmace), higher with Power-ups and Rage Boost

2016: At least High Universe level, possibly higher (Stronger than before), higher with Power-ups and Rage Boost

Durability:​

The Dark Ages: High Universe level (Traded blows with Transformed Prince Ahzrak), higher with Power-ups and Rage Boost

2016: At least High Universe level, possibly higher (Stronger than before), higher with Power-ups and Rage Boost
 
Last edited:
I believe the scaling should be The Slayer < Base Enhanced Ahzrak < Transformed prince Ahzrak < Rage boost slayer.
We did an entire fighting sequence, in order to land a single scrath on ahzrak, and he effortlessly tanked our attacks during the fight itself, which makes me believe that he was stronger than the slayer even in that stage, He basically transformed because the slayer just pissed him off with that little scratch.

atleast, that's how i interpreted the fight.
 
Hellscream said:
I believe the scaling should be The Slayer < Base Enhanced Ahzrak < Transformed prince Ahzrak < Rage boost slayer.
We did an entire fighting sequence, in order to land a single scrath on ahzrak, and he effortlessly tanked our attacks during the fight itself, which makes me believe that he was stronger than the slayer even in that stage, He basically transformed because the slayer just pissed him off with that little scratch.

atleast, that's how i interpreted the fight.
Click to expand...
Sounds about right.
 
vsbattles.com

DOOM: The Dark Ages - Tier Revisions

Questions, comments, or concerns? Dark Ages Scaling Chain The Slayer < Enhanced Ahzrak < Transformed Prince Ahzrak < The Slayer w/ Rage Boost All Post Divinity Machine Keys: higher with Power-ups and Rage Boost Attack Potency: The Dark Ages: Universe level (Capable of wielding and attacking...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
can somebody tell me why urdak is 6D despite it being part of the multiverse and timelines being a crucial plot point
 
Any recs for great classic Doom fanmaps? I'm well-versed in the Quake modding scene -- have enjoyed using Quake Injector to discover more & streamline the installation process -- but I haven't played many Doom fan campaigns. An excellent one I have played is based on Doom 64; it's called The UnMaking and even has original music in the atmospheric Aubrey Hodges horror style.

 
Hugo expresses doubt Davoth can destroy earth by himself, why is this ignored?

slayer was canonically defeated by a building falling on him in the lore, this is also ignored. I imagine if he had infinite lifting strength he would’ve just lifted the Temple up, you can’t take a subjective, in universe written codex as a piece of fact. The Dreadmace is cosmic and defies logic, so why is it assumed Slayer is lifting its weight and not that it can simply support itself and allow itself to be lifted regardless of weight?

Samuel saying “I can’t kill you” in 2016 doesn’t mean Slayer would be literally unharmed if he swung the blade, it’s been recontextualised to mean he’d just respawn in hell as dark ages show us, even Ahzrak pieced and wounded Slayer with his blade.

The praetor armour was never hit with a megakelvin laser, this is a misinterpretation of the 2016 codex fans stated.

Samuel states the foundry melting down would kill him and the slayer in 2016, this is also ignored.

Slayer was killed by his suit’s bomb exploding which couldn’t even harm the Old Ones who can be killed by the building level Atlan which would be destroyed by the Hebeth Core explosion which was city level which Slayer had to be rescued from, along with the falling city in dark ages he was also emergency rescued from.

There are so many anti feats in this series and lore painting him as consistently below planetary but I guess it’s fine if some few hyperbolic texts are lied about because it’s the slayer. It’s very cool to wank him.

Urdak and Hell being “the sixth dimension, seventh dimension” etc etc also is being misrepresented. That’s not referring to dimensionality, they’re LITERALLY just numbered dimensions— for example, Slayer came from the “seventh dimension earth” according to cut lines but Earth clearly isn’t 7D. You say say they’re cut lines so they don’t count, but it still shows a clear mentality the writers were in when writing this stuff.

Adding onto that, link on Slayer’s AP saying he was “causing multiverses to implode” is heavily misinterpreted. That statement is from the art book specially in the multiplayer section, it’s basically a bunch of jargon to explain why and how the multiplayer is the way it is, and Slayer wasn’t even CAUSING these implosions— which don’t scale anywhere since even lesser demons were within these implosions which is what the battlemode is— it was the colliding forces of Urdak and Hell, entire dimensions, NOT the Slayer.
 
Last edited:
The idea that Slayer “powers his guns up with his brain” is also a fan misinterpretation and not actually present in any of the lore or games.

The only way he can power up is with quad damage or berserk, temporary powerups.

Slayer also requires oxygen, canonised in dark ages. That is a potential weakness for his profile.
 
If I remember correctly hugo gets cut off like halfway through answering and when he comes back, he says Davoth is all powerful. Not to mention Davoth is still very clearly a threat to all of reality and hell being an absolute extension of his power as revealed by Hugo, would make him above planet level.

Edit:
Also, Urdak is outright called a Higher Dimension in canon. Hell is superior to Urdak as stated by the UAC and Urdak Lore.
 
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