DOOM: The Dark Ages - Powers and Abilities Addition

[Firestorm808]

DOOM: The Dark Ages / Post-Divinity Machine Key

Accepted

• Weapon Mastery (Proficient with a Shield Saw, Flail, and Mace)
• Weapon Control (Capable of returning his shield on command and doing the Shield Recall Jump)
• Martial Arts (Proficient in unarmed combat. Should be capable of performing the same Combo Punches, Palm Strikes, and Stomp Finishers done via a neural link in Atlans)
• Flame Manipulation via Flail (The flail head is imbued with an Inferno Core—a crystal of searing power that ignites its victims upon impact)
• Attack Reflection via Parry
• Fire Manipulation via Incendiary Upgrade (Dealing enough damage to a demon applies a burn effect)
• Explosion Manipulation via Blast Upgrade (Burn applied by the Combat Shotgun causes enemies to explode on death)
• Shockwave Generation via high drops, Shield Saw Retaliation, and Ground Fissure Rune
• Resistance to Paralysis Inducement (His resistance to the tether's influence has been increasing. He resisted and broke out of Maykr's Tether twice)
• Limited Reality Warping or Space Manip via Chainshot (Born from the unfathomable depths of forgotten realms, it channels chaotic energies, hurling its projectiles with a force that tears reality itself)
• Mind and Madness Manipulation via Dreadmace (It's "mere presence distorts the mind")
• Enhanced Resistance to Mind and Madness Manipulation (Resistant to Chaos Realm objects which "mere presence distorts the mind" and "insidious whispers, which gnaw at the edges of the wielder’s sanity")
• Electricity Manipulation via Power Gauntlets (It is embedded with iron conduits which channel raw Sentinel energy into arcs of crackling lightning which surge with every strike) and Cycler (Applies Shock to demons after inflicting significant damage. Killing shocked enemies using the Cycler arcs lightning to nearby demons)
• Transmutation, Electricity Manipulation, and Paralysis Inducement via Heaven Splitter Rune (Transform energy projectiles into a bolt of energy that calls down lightning on impact, stunning nearby targets)
• Weapon Creation and Homing Attack via Holy Swarm Rune (Unleashes a swarm of ethereal daggers that spread out and seek targets)
• Weapon Enhancement (Can empower his various weapons and shield, even when piloting Atlans or his Dragon)
• Rage Power (Confirmed by Hugo, the madder he gets, the stronger he gets, allowing him to defeat Transformed Ahzrak.)

Discussing

• Paralysis Inducement? or some other effect name via Shield Saw (The saw can embed itself in enemies, stunning them for a period of time)
• Immortality Type TBD (Stated by Ahzrak that death isn't a permanent option for the Slayer. According to Hugo, the Slayer gets in touch with his anger and rage, allowing the Slayer to be alive in his rotting body in Hell. The Slayer would still "be alive in Hell" if the Sentinels didn't do the ritual as the point of the ritual was to "send [The Slayer] a signal, a beacon" for the Slayer to follow from Hell back to Argent Dnur during interdimensional travel.)
  • 4: Immortality via reincarnation or resurrection: Characters that are immortal because, whenever they die, they will simply reincarnate within another body or resurrect themselves at a later point in time.
  • 5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.
  • 7: Undead: Characters who cannot die due to technically being already dead, often overlapping with other forms of immortality. This includes characters who can keep existing as spiritual entities upon dying.

 

[Shmooply]

Everything looks good here. I do disagree with giving Paralysis Inducement to the saw, it seems to be more-so game mechanics since he's chucking a massive, sharp object into an opponent's body and debilitating them that way instead of the saw having any actual form of paralysis or stun.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me; though I'm unsure if dazing someone with blunt force would really be paralysis inducement yeah.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Seems fine, but should been in the key before the events of Doom 2016 and after the events of DOOM 64.

 

[Tonygameman]

Going with others' shared opinion here and Hammer's new key suggestion.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Going with others' shared opinion here and Hammer's new key suggestion.

We already have “Post Night Training Sentinel” key which I was referring to.

Should make it a bit cleaner since we do have it as one of his keys

 

[Leon_SsS_K4nnedy]

the Slayer self-resurrected his rotting body to break out of Hell.

What do you mean? He didn't resurrect himself, he was resurrected by a demonic ritual. Apparently, the ritual was needed to return his body. He probably wouldn't have been able to return to the world of the living without the ritual, otherwise what would be the point of this scene?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

this ok, he should get mind manipulation with Dreadmace since its effect is passive, so everytime DoomSlayer use it, then he basically hit your brain with mind hax

 

[Firestorm808]

Looks good to me; though I'm unsure if dazing someone with blunt force would really be paralysis inducement yeah.

chucking a massive, sharp object into an opponent's body and debilitating them that way

Is there another term on the site for an effect like this??

 

[Firestorm808]

this ok, he should get mind manipulation with Dreadmace since its effect is passive, so everytime DoomSlayer use it, then he basically hit your brain with mind hax

It's there.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Speaking of which, would Infinite Lifting Strength also proposed due to the "Infinite density" statement mentioned on forum.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

Yet another game where Slayer gets more toys and demons to kill with them.

Looks good, though, I do agree with others in saying that Paralysis Inducement via blunt force is questionable.

 

[Firestorm808]

What do you mean? He didn't resurrect himself, he was resurrected by a demonic ritual. Apparently, the ritual was needed to return his body. He probably wouldn't have been able to return to the world of the living without the ritual, otherwise what would be the point of this scene?

He did.

Stated by Ahzrak that death isn't a permanent option for the Slayer. According to Hugo, the Slayer gets in touch with his anger and rage, allowing the Slayer to self-resurrect his rotting body in Hell.

That is the Slayer- That-that symbol represents, uh, his rage. So, so in terms of symbol- symbolism in the story, that is a a visual motif that we hit a couple of times, and that is him getting in touch with his rage. We see that, uh, at the beginning of the story, he's not the slayer that we know from the beginning of 2016, uh, and- and he uh, not quite, and he becomes that person you know in in the story when we finally see it burn through, you know in that great scene, when you hear that line, they are rage, brutal, relentless. Um, that's him, you know, his- his special power, is- is his anger and his rage, and he gets in touch with it. Harnesses it, Weaponizes his anger at the end of our second act.

And then Azrik foolishly does something terrible as we all know, And that is when the Slayer truly, uh, is launched forward into battle. That's when he's the most pissed. Azrik gets what's coming to him.

Kind of like, the story is of a man who's too angry to die.

 

[Firestorm808]

Speaking of which, would Infinite Lifting Strength also proposed due to the "Infinite density" statement mentioned on forum.

That will be on the next Stats and Tiering CRT.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

It's there.

no, you put resistance, i talking he need manipulation due the weapon effect is passive too

 

[Firestorm808]

Seems fine, but should been in the key before the events of Doom 2016 and after the events of DOOM 64.

They will be in a DOOM: The Dark Ages / Post-Divinity Machine Key

 

[Firestorm808]

no, you put resistance, i talking he need manipulation due the weapon effect is passive too

Oh, you mean that the Dreadmace has an area of effect that works on others nearby, too.

I'll add it in.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

He didn't resurrect himself, he was resurrected by a demonic ritual. Apparently, the ritual was needed to return his body. He probably wouldn't have been able to return to the world of the living without the ritual, otherwise what

Prior to that scene, we see him fighting out in the afterlife, going into a ship, and proceeding to the objective of returning to the mortal plane..

From what I understand.



Here we go.

Also here is the scene where we see him going to a ship while in the afterlife.






Edit: Done some necessary rewording.

After thinking it a bit more, I change my mind to neutral on the immortality part.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also, the objective was return to the Mortal Plane, which I think the demonic ritual being used is what accelerates the process of Doomslayer resurrecting himself from the dead if you ask me

 

[Abstractions]

Immortality Type 4, Type 7 as Undead (Stated by Ahzrak that death isn't a permanent option for the Slayer. According to Hugo, the Slayer gets in touch with his anger and rage, allowing the Slayer to self-resurrect his rotting body in Hell.)

Hugo's statement isn't exactly convincing or truly that specific, he calls the Slayer too angry to die (despite this very thing being contradicted by the game itself) and only serves as an aura farming statement. The Slayer died and had to traverse back to the mortal plane from the ethereal one, with the pathway to do so only opened by the Sentinels, he did not achieve this of his own ability and required assistance.

So I am disagreeing with this addition in particular.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Hugo's statement isn't exactly convincing or truly that specific, he calls the Slayer too angry to die (despite this very thing being contradicted by the game itself) and only serves as an aura farming statement. The Slayer died and had to traverse back to the mortal plane from the ethereal one, with the pathway to do so only opened by the Sentinels, he did not achieve this of his own ability and required assistance.

So I am disagreeing with this addition in particular.

There is the fact the Demons opt to seal him instead of trying to kill as demonstrated at the start of Doom 2016.

There is also this particular statement made from the villain where he did mention he wanted a more permanent solution after replying to the Makyr’s comment of killing him.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Wait, just to make it easier.



Here we go. A short clip.

 

[Abstractions]

There is the fact the Demons opt to seal him instead of trying to kill as demonstrated at the start of Doom 2016.

Yeah, and they tried to seal him here probably knowing there'd be a method to extract him from the ethereal plane, which is what happened. It was a deliberate attempt to keep him alive so he couldn't actually escape through some unorthodox means.

 

[Firestorm808]

Hugo's statement isn't exactly convincing or truly that specific, he calls the Slayer too angry to die (despite this very thing being contradicted by the game itself) and only serves as an aura farming statement. The Slayer died and had to traverse back to the mortal plane from the ethereal one, with the pathway to do so only opened by the Sentinels, he did not achieve this of his own ability and required assistance.

So I am disagreeing with this addition in particular.

Under normal circumstances of death, body and soul are separated. The soul becomes one of the many waiting in line in Hell. If the Slayer had become truly ethereal, his soul would have been separated from his body and would be in the same state as all the other blue souls waiting in line on the level.

This is not the case. We see that the Slayer's body and soul were brought to the first layer of Hell after the events of the Chaos Realm. However, the Slayer's body and soul are kept together by his rage. He even has all his equipment, suit AI, and guns.

 

[Abstractions]

It's not about whether or not he truly became ethereal, it's simply clear that his actual death displaced him there, he wasn't willed there by happenstance. He had actually died and required external help to get back to the mortal plane from what is the ethereal one. That much isn't debatable.

 

[Firestorm808]

It's not about whether or not he truly became ethereal, it's simply clear that his actual death displaced him there, he wasn't willed there by happenstance. He had actually died and required external help to get back to the mortal plane from what is the ethereal one. That much isn't debatable.

To reiterate, travel between Hell and the Human world is not uncommon.

If a standard portal were accessible, he would easily be able to return to the Human world, but still in his zombie-like state.

 

[Abstractions]

The problem that is happening is that it's not just only Hell he's traversing; when he crosses the boundary by boat his HUD already changes from the zombified one, if this were just Hell normally why would this distinction even matter except if he was crossing from an afterlife of sorts back into the Mortal Plane.

If a simple portal would have sufficed, they would have had us do that and there wouldn't have been this need to resurrect him at all, he would have helped himself. If he didn't need help for this process they wouldn't have narratively depicted it as such.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Just out of curiosity, have anyone addressed the extra lives from Doom Eternal or the Life Sigil from Doom the Dark Ages?



Apparently when it comes to the life sigil from Doom the Dark Ages, Martin confirm it originally supposed to been five life sigils rather and it is what we go in the final product.

Edit: Derp on the wording again.

Jeez

 

[Firestorm808]

The problem that is happening is that it's not just only Hell he's traversing; when he crosses the boundary by boat his HUD already changes from the zombified one, if this were just Hell normally why would this distinction even matter except if he was crossing from an afterlife of sorts back into the Mortal Plane.

If a simple portal would have sufficed, they would have had us do that and there wouldn't have been this need to resurrect him at all, he would have helped himself. If he didn't need help for this process they wouldn't have narratively depicted it as such.

A standard portal to hell simply wasn't accessible or viable. Trying to open a portal to hell without knowing the Slayer's exact location in all of hell would be a moot effort. They used the blood ritual with the Slayer's helmet to hell magic him back to them.

The reason for the change in HUD is related to the ritual the Sentinels performed. It did 2 things: restore the slayer's rotten body and transport said body to the human world.

 

[Firestorm808]

Let's start with the basics.

What counts as "resurrection"?

• Scenario 1
  • A person dies. The body stays on Earth. The soul is sent to Hell.
  • Magic is performed and brings the soul back to the body on Earth and is now "alive" on Earth.
• Scenario 2
  • A person dies. The body and soul are both sent to hell.
  • The soul forcibly stays with the body and is now "alive" in Hell.
  • Portals can still bring the "alive" person back to Earth.
• Scenario 3
  • A person dies. The soul remains on Earth with the body.
  • The soul forces itself back into the body. The being is now "alive" as an undead being on Earth.

@DarkDragonMedeus

@KingTempest

@Planck69

Your input is appreciated.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yeah, here we go as we do have a code entry acknowledging the whole revival mechanic being in Doom Eternal and all.

Still technically game mechanics since you only get them in-game (Although the Doom lore acknowledged said game mechanics I think)


The only exception being Doom 2016 as it doesn’t have any revival mechanics as far as I am aware.

 

[Campo1uc]

He did.

Stated by Ahzrak that death isn't a permanent option for the Slayer. According to Hugo, the Slayer gets in touch with his anger and rage, allowing the Slayer to self-resurrect his rotting body in Hell.

You're trying to juggle the context to get around the obvious and important fact that you don't like: The guy returned to the world of the living only because he had external support, which brought him back to the world of the living. This is not an out-of-game interview, this is not a collection of pieces from different parts of Doom's history, this is a narrative fact. The only thing you can take from here is doom slayer's resistance to the disincarnation of body and soul, but he cannot resurrect on his own.

 

[Firestorm808]

You're trying to juggle the context to get around the obvious and important fact that you don't like: The guy returned to the world of the living only because he had external support, which brought him back to the world of the living. This is not an out-of-game interview, this is not a collection of pieces from different parts of Doom's history, this is a narrative fact. The only thing you can take from here is doom slayer's resistance to the disincarnation of body and soul, but he cannot resurrect on his own.

Are you proposing that resurrection cannot occur if both body and soul are alive in Hell?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

• Scenario 1
  • A person dies. The body stays on Earth. The soul is sent to Hell.
  • Magic is performed and brings the soul back to the body on Earth and is now "alive" on Earth.

I would say this is resurrection, the removal of souls is considered death for most fiction

Scenario 2

• A person dies. The body and soul are both sent to hell.
• The soul forcibly stays with the body and is now "alive" in Hell.
• Portals can still bring the "alive" person back to Earth.

This is likely just immortality (or possibly low godly regen? since the soul is causing the body to live on)

• Scenario 3
  • A person dies. The soul remains on Earth with the body.
  • The soul forces itself back into the body. The being is now "alive" as an undead being on Earth.

Should be a type of immortality, since the soul has left the body (qualifying for death) and is returning by its own choice it would also qualify for resurrection

 

[Firestorm808]

@Abstractions

Per the recent Q&A, the Slayer would still "be alive in Hell" if the Sentinels didn't do the ritual. The ritual had nothing to do with making the Slayer alive in Hell.

The point of the ritual was to "send [The Slayer] a signal, a beacon, to try to bring him back." This is just interdimensional travel assistance. It was something for The Slayer to follow after breaking through the gates in Hell because all realms are connected to Hell. He needed a way to navigate specifically to Argent Dnur.

 

[Firestorm808]

This is likely just immortality (or possibly low godly regen? since the soul is causing the body to live on)

What Immortality type would you suggest?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

What Immortality type would you suggest?

Scenario 3 : 4: Immortality via reincarnation or resurrection

Scenario 2 : 7: Undead (he's technically already dead as this is why he is in hell but he still lives on so this should work?)
Type 5: Deathless if the soul-body fusion makes the person fundamentally immune to conventional death and unable to be killed through normal means (they are still functionally alive)

Type 8: Reliant if the unique soul is causing them to stay living then and to nullify the immortality requires erasure of the soul then this might possibly work under the premise of relying on the unique soul

 

[Leon_SsS_K4nnedy]

You're trying to juggle the context to get around the obvious and important fact that you don't like: The guy returned to the world of the living only because he had external support, which brought him back to the world of the living. This is not an out-of-game interview, this is not a collection of pieces from different parts of Doom's history, this is a narrative fact. The only thing you can take from here is doom slayer's resistance to the disincarnation of body and soul, but he cannot resurrect on his own.

Exactly.

Honestly, this baffles me. We have a literal plot context of Slayer being resurrected. But we want to give him resurrection as a personal ability. There is no evidence that he would have come out into the world of the living without the ritual. This is pure speculation, pure fantasy.

 

[Firestorm808]

Exactly.

Honestly, this baffles me. We have a literal plot context of Slayer being resurrected. But we want to give him resurrection as a personal ability. There is no evidence that he would have come out into the world of the living without the ritual. This is pure speculation, pure fantasy.

Again, the the definition of what we use for resurrection matters.

Is there a difference between being alive on Earth vs being alive in Hell?

 

[Firestorm808]

@Mr. Bambu

@Antvasima

@DarkDragonMedeus

How should we go about classifying the Slayer's "living status" in the following context?

1. The Slayer blows himself up and "dies"
2. The Slayer (Equipment, Body, and Soul) ends up in Hell.
3. Instead of being a disembodied soul like the others blue spirit figures in Hell, the Slayer's soul is still inside his, albeit rotten, body.
4. The Slayer maintains the same bodily functionality and demonic combat as before.
5. The Slayer has the same access to his armor, weapons, health drop, etc as he normally does when he fights demons now and before.

What do we classify this status as?