Dolph Ziggler vs Yamcha (WWE vs Dragon Ball)

[HammerStrikes219]

show me something that A) establishes the comic used in the calc as part of the same ongoing storylines of the live action WWE Universe and not something one-off like John Cena lifting a boulder in a Scooby Doo Cartoon,
and
B) show me a supporting feat from a live action event. I don't care how obviously fake/staged it is, as long as the announcers or whoever are acknowledging that they're dishing out some kind of superhuman level of power. The only two characters in the WWE Universe I can think of that could remotely qualify in this regard are Kane and Undertaker, but it's been so long and I don't remember any individual feats. While they are playing characters in staged storylines, the characters in the WWE Universe are, by and large, intended to be realistic personages, not Sub-to-Supersonic superhumans knocking down houses in a single blow, as I understand it.

Might as well take it to a CRT for this.

Anyway, I will unfollow this thread since I have no interest in VS debating generally.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

show me something that A) establishes the comic used in the calc as part of the same ongoing storylines of the live action WWE Universe and not something one-off like John Cena lifting a boulder in a Scooby Doo Cartoon,
and
B) show me a supporting feat from a live action event. I don't care how obviously fake/staged it is, as long as the announcers or whoever are acknowledging that they're dishing out some kind of superhuman level of power. The only two characters in the WWE Universe I can think of that could remotely qualify in this regard are Kane and Undertaker, but it's been so long and I don't remember any individual feats. While they are playing characters in staged storylines, the characters in the WWE Universe are, by and large, intended to be realistic personages, not Sub-to-Supersonic superhumans knocking down houses in a single blow, as I understand it.

Bruh there are plenty of 9-B feats in the verse, which is Superhuman in of itself

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I can see the complaints with the verse being 8-C to an extent, but to act like the verse doesn't have consistent feats that put them far above any IRL human is insane.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Bruh there are plenty of 9-B feats in the verse, which is Superhuman in of itself

I can understand 9-B, I've seen a few myself from the Attitude Era. But 8-C? based off of a single comic panel? In something that may or may not actually be canon to the live action? I call Citation Needed.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I can understand 9-B, I've seen a few myself from the Attitude Era. But 8-C? based off of a single comic panel? In something that may or may not actually be canon to the live action? I call Citation Needed.

The comics that I got the feat from are considered secondary canon to the verse thanks to this thread.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

The comics that I got the feat from are considered secondary canon to the verse thanks to this thread.

Did a quick read of the thread, and yeah, I don't like the reasoning behind that. It's like accepting Toeiverse/filler stuff as secondary canon to DBZ because it was made in partnership with Shueisha and Toriyama. There's a reason we have separate profiles for "canon" and "Toei" versions of Goku, Freeza, etc. With the live action context this 8-C feat is in outlier territory (especially the cartoonish way the ring craters, when no WWE ring has ever done that, closest we came is when people like Braun Strowman collapsed the ring); I'd also be greatly interested in seeing the surrounding context of that panel and whether or not the ring stays cratered.

But, that's not the purpose of this thread, and sorry for derailing; my vote is still for Yamcha FRA, based on the Wolf Fang Fist and the fact he has a sword, making Dolph's finishers difficult unless he can chance to disarm Yamcha, which is much less likely to happen than Dolph losing a limb or receiving a debilitating wound in the attempt.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

But, that's not the purpose of this thread, and sorry for derailing; my vote is still for Yamcha FRA, based on the Wolf Fang Fist and the fact he has a sword, making Dolph's finishers difficult unless he can chance to disarm Yamcha, which is much less likely to happen than Dolph losing a limb or receiving a debilitating wound in the attempt.

That's fair. I don't see Dolph winning here either.

Did a quick read of the thread, and yeah, I don't like the reasoning behind that. It's like accepting Toeiverse/filler stuff as secondary canon to DBZ because it was made in partnership with Shueisha and Toriyama.

I also go into further detail how the comics expand on the stories that happened on TV by adding more layers to the story, as well as the characters featured, without contradicting what happens on TV.

 

[AceOfSpaces3709]

1. I'm not sure if you are comprehending my argument. Yamcha = Hungry Goku, WFF one shots Hungry Goku therefore WFF one shots Yamcha. How strong Goku was at the moment just doesn't matter. WFF is still one shot level above himself.

2. He was literally ready to fight before he noticed that his tooth was messed up. If what you are saying is true than he wouldn't have been so ready to fight. Goku might have been a bit stronger but they were clearly on equal footing

What I'm saying is indeed true, if you read the fight (Which I compiled on Imgur) Goku easily beat Yamcha by countering his WFF and knocking his tooth out, the latter causing Yamcha to flee. In the last page you'll also read that the reason Yamcha changed his plans was because of Goku's power. This proves my statement that Yamcha downscales from Goku.

Also the reason Yamcha was so ready to fight (other than the fact he's cocky and arrogant) was because Bulma was unconscious and he still believed Goku was weaker than him. Goku however was quick to debunk this when he said he wasn't hungry this time (He pretty much said he was at full strength for the rematch)

 

[DivineAura44]

What I'm saying is indeed true, if you read the fight (Which I compiled on Imgur) Goku easily beat Yamcha by countering his WFF and knocking his tooth out, the latter causing Yamcha to flee. In the last page you'll also read that the reason Yamcha changed his plans was because of Goku's power. This proves my statement that Yamcha downscales from Goku.

Also the reason Yamcha was so ready to fight (other than the fact he's cocky and arrogant) was because Bulma was unconscious and he still believed Goku was weaker than him. Goku however was quick to debunk this when he said he wasn't hungry this time (He pretty much said he was at full strength for the rematch)

1. Either it's a broken link or my phone it's working.
2. That wouldn't matter to Yamcha. He wouldn't know the difference in strength between hungry and not hungry Goku. Him still being ready to fight after already being hit by Goku is proof that Yamcha thinks he can take him. Goku not being hungry isn't gonna tip the scales for him when he doesn't even know the difference in their strengths.

 

[AceOfSpaces3709]

Reviving this thread. I don't think I'm up to date with the current Dragon Ball AP ratings but I remember in this thread, someone told me that all the 8-C+ (1.2 Tons of TNT) characters have been downgraded back to 8-C (0.8 Tons of TNT), which means Yamcha doesn't have a high AP advantage anymore

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Yamcha still has his sword, as well as higher LS (though Class 25 LS is nothing new to Ziggler).

 

[DivineAura44]

Reviving this thread. I don't think I'm up to date with the current Dragon Ball AP ratings but I remember in this thread, someone told me that all the 8-C+ (1.2 Tons of TNT) characters have been downgraded back to 8-C (0.8 Tons of TNT), which means Yamcha doesn't have a high AP advantage anymore

I still believe Yamcha one shots with the WFF due to sh*tting on a character on his level and being stronger than Dolph. He also has a sword to help with range. My arguments from before haven't changed. This isn't a vote for Yamcha though... yet.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I still believe Yamcha one shots with the WFF due to shutting on a character on his level and being stronger than Dolph. He also has a sword to help with range. My arguments from before haven't changed. This isn't a vote for Yamcha though... yet.

Tbf, Ziggler is very resilient, as he can take multiple finishers and still get up to fight.

 

[DivineAura44]

Tbf, Ziggler is very resilient, as he can take multiple finishers and still get up to fight.

Tbh, I dont know why that part slipped my mind.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Tbh, I dont know why that part slipped my mind.

That sword is gonna be a pain in the ass, but having AP that's one-shot worthy in a verse where finishers regularly one-shot or nearly one-shot characters isn't too big of a deal, especially when it comes to people like Ziggler, who not only can continue fighting despite taking multiple finishers but can dodge attacks on instinct alone.

 

[DivineAura44]

That sword is gonna be a pain in the ass, but having AP that's one-shot worthy in a verse where finishers regularly one-shot or nearly one-shot characters isn't too big of a deal, especially when it comes to people like Ziggler, who not only can continue fighting despite taking multiple finishers but can dodge attacks on instinct alone.

See this is what I don't like cuz it's also VERY consistent for him to get put down with just one.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

See this is what I don't like cuz it's also VERY consistent for him to get put down with just one.

True, but we usually go for what's consistent, and more often than not, Ziggler is known for his resiliency instead of just being a jobber who gets put down with one finisher.

 

[DivineAura44]

True, but we usually go for what's consistent, and more often than not, Ziggler is known for his resiliency instead of just being a jobber who gets put down with one finisher.

It doesn't take a jobber to get put down by one finisher. Ziggler is a Mid - High tier fighter while Yamcha scales above Top Tiers in terms of AP.
It's not crazy to say that it only takes 1 WWF.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

It doesn't take a jobber to get put down by one finisher. Ziggler is a Mid - High tier fighter while Yamcha scales above Top Tiers in terms of AP.
It's not crazy to say that it only takes 1 WWF.

Technically Ziggler is labeled a Top Tier.

 

[DivineAura44]

Technically Ziggler is labeled a Top Tier.

Omw to make a downgrade thread


Sidenote: HOWWWW?!?!?!?!?!

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Omw to make a downgrade thread


Sidenote: HOWWWW?!?!?!?!?!

In the process of making his profile, I was debating whether or not he should be a High or Top Tier, but I decided to go for Top Tier because the highs Ziggler hit were very high (winning the World Title, feud with The Miz, surviving a 3on1 at Survivor Series, and a lot more).

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Though when you consider the stuff he did post-2018, you can argue he's a High Tier.

 

[DivineAura44]

In the process of making his profile, I was debating whether or not he should be a High or Top Tier, but I decided to go for Top Tier because the highs Ziggler hit were very high (winning the World Title, feud with The Miz, surviving a 3on1 at Survivor Series, and a lot more).

Random I've got an unrelated question for you, do you smoke a lot? Like some great dank I'm assuming? Can you tell me your supplier?

 

[DivineAura44]

Though when you consider the stuff he did post-2018, you can argue he's a High Tier.

Or we can just start making keys for wrestlers. Seems like a simple fix considering Ziggler legitimately became a jobber.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Or we can just start making keys for wrestlers. Seems like a simple fix considering Ziggler legitimately became a jobber.

I was heavily against this at first, but now, I think it's needed. The John Cena from 2005-2013 isn't the same as Cena from 2017-2023, and this same logic applies to many, many other wrestlers.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

This'll be a lot of work, though.

 

[DivineAura44]

This'll be a lot of work, though.

I'm always here to cheer you on as you do all the editing