W101 Transduality type 2

[Robo432343]

Transduality type 2 for W101 characters was accepted here:

101 general CRT

Oh boy. This gonna be a BIG one. But I think the majority of this is very straight-forward and simple such as very basic abilities, so it shouldn't take long. The main purposes of this thread are to add a lot of missing stuff to the profiles. Abilities Acausality Type 2: Here, it was...

vsbattles.com

Now that the duality standards have changed, does W101 still qualify?

 

[KLOL506]

Honestly, couldn't say, especially with the rumblings that Type 2 Nonduality might actually hurl you to 1-A if Ultima's Tier 1 shit passes, so...

 

[Mizuki67]

Honestly, couldn't say, especially with the rumblings that Type 2 Nonduality might actually hurl you to 1-A if Ultima's Tier 1 shit passes, so...

Eh but isnt it only for those who has qs ? Are u talking about nature or aspect. I don't think nature type 1 would qualify

 

[KLOL506]

Eh but isnt it only for those who has qs ? Are u talking about nature or aspect. I don't think nature type 1 would qualify

I'm talking about Nature.

QS itself will be completely revised if Ultima's CRT goes through.

 

[Georredannea15]

Don't wait for Ultima's revision because it will take a long time, so decide now if this qualifies for TD right now

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Honestly, couldn't say, especially with the rumblings that Type 2 Nonduality might actually hurl you to 1-A if Ultima's Tier 1 shit passes, so...

That is something he's said to me off-site concerning the topic, mainly because he doesn't think the distinction between the two is that important.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

The distinction between Transduality and Nonduality as I understand it is based solely on whether or not the character has "qualitative superiority" over the concepts in question. With this difference in mind, it's hard to say that the characters qualify as Transdual at the moment because I don't think the concepts being compared are infinitely weaker than the other characters. I do believe they should still qualify for Nonduality regardless though.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Yes this definitely qualifies for nonduality, we just dont know if its aspect 1,2 or 3

Dasein/the Nothing should qualify for aspect 2.

General Nonduality: Characters existing in a nondual state regarding all dual systems within an entire level of reality in a way that makes them occupy both or neither state of the dualities in question.

Bartleby would likely be aspect 1, but functionally aspect 2 due to how Light & Shadow work in the verse in relation to everything else (including the other dual systems of the verse).

 

[Robo432343]

Dasein/the Nothing should qualify for aspect 2.


Bartleby would likely be aspect 1, but functionally aspect 2 due to how Light & Shadow work in the verse in relation to everything else (including the other dual systems of the verse).

wouldn't it be aspect 3 because Bartleby himself doesn't have a duality to define him, making him a paradox in the great hierarchy of existence
"a state where they are neither A, nor not A, nor both A and not A, nor neither A nor not A,"

 

[Ben_CleverName]

wouldn't it be aspect 3 because Bartleby himself doesn't have a duality to define him, making him a paradox in the great hierarchy of existence
"a state where they are neither A, nor not A, nor both A and not A, nor neither A nor not A,"

I'm pretty sure not having a duality to define him would just be aspect 2 in general. There's maybe a chance that he could be aspect 3 via some stuff that was dropped in Wallaru but it's confusing and weird. It's like this:

Light, Order, Shadow, and Chaos are primordial "concepts" that shaped reality for what it is via Raven and Spider. Through Raven and Spider, the dualities of the other magical schools (which also shape reality) come into being. Shadow in particular is said to tie these other schools of magic together. Then there's Bartleby, who exists as "a third, harmonizing force" that binds Light and Shadow together, but he isn't a part of Light or Shadow. He is, however, the tree of magic and source of magic, meaning that the aforementioned magic schools are derived from him in some way.

Then in Wallaru they end up delving into the topic of dreams and they repeatedly compare dreams to that which is "not real" or simply "isn't" (worth bringing up because the same arc deals heavily with the Nothing, and in fact the Nothing is why they are in Wallaru to begin with), with Bartleby in particular having an unconscious "dreamer" side of himself that creates new realities through his dreams.

 

[Robo432343]

I'm pretty sure not having a duality to define him would just be aspect 2 in general. There's maybe a chance that he could be aspect 3 via some stuff that was dropped in Wallaru but it's confusing and weird. It's like this:

Light, Order, Shadow, and Chaos are primordial "concepts" that shaped reality for what it is via Raven and Spider. Through Raven and Spider, the dualities of the other magical schools (which also shape reality) come into being. Shadow in particular is said to tie these other schools of magic together. Then there's Bartleby, who exists as "a third, harmonizing force" that binds Light and Shadow together, but he isn't a part of Light or Shadow. He is, however, the tree of magic and source of magic, meaning that the aforementioned magic schools are derived from him in some way.

Then in Wallaru they end up delving into the topic of dreams and they repeatedly compare dreams to that which is "not real" or simply "isn't" (worth bringing up because the same arc deals heavily with the Nothing, and in fact the Nothing is why they are in Wallaru to begin with), with Bartleby in particular having an unconscious "dreamer" side of himself that creates new realities through his dreams.

are you fine with the characters getting nonduality nature 1 aspect 2?
i thought they were getting type 2 aspect 2

 

[Robo432343]

the reason i say type 2 aspect 2 was because the spiral is simply an echo of an even greater wheel of existence compared to bartleby etc

 

[Ben_CleverName]

are you fine with the characters getting nonduality nature 1 aspect 2?
i thought they were getting type 2 aspect 2

Yes, because like Ultima I don't think the distinction is all that meaningful.

the reason i say type 2 aspect 2 was because the spiral is simply an echo of an even greater wheel of existence compared to bartleby etc

Bartleby is beyond the wheel, but so are Raven and Spider, who are the dualities referenced towards his Nonduality. So are the Titans who embody the other schools of magic. The difference between them isn't infinitely great so it wouldn't count towards a qualitative superiority and as such wouldn't make sense to count it as Type 2, even if they're all Low 1-C.

 

[Robo432343]

Yes, because like Ultima I don't think the distinction is all that meaningful.

Bartleby is beyond the wheel, but so are Raven and Spider, who are the dualities referenced towards his Nonduality. So are the Titans who embody the other schools of magic. The difference between them isn't infinitely great so it wouldn't count towards a qualitative superiority and as such wouldn't make sense to count it as Type 2, even if they're all Low 1-C.

apparently as long as Bartleby is qualitatively superior to the spiral he can have TD type 2
if you are qualitatively superior to something like viewing something as fiction for example, wouldn't you would be infinitely greater than it by default tho?

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Yes, but I would rather have that discussion after Ultima's revisions are complete. It's my understanding that he intends to rework Nonduality overall, and I don't think viewing something as flat would be qualitative superiority anymore after the revision is complete.