Dodging Omnipresence

[DarkGrath]

This has been an issue that has been bugging me for a while now.

For the sake of keeping this brief, I won't talk about the exact context here (though people who have been involved in similar threads to mine likely already know what I'm referring to here).

What would the speed rating be of someone who manages to dodge an omnipresent entity? As in, they physically react to and dodge an attack from a character who is either completely, or at least under those conditions, omnipresent.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Omnipresence is a state which isn't really dependent of speed. It depend of how fast the omnipresent being is without including this state.

 

[DarkGrath]

But then, on the page for speed, regarding the use of Omnipresence as a speed statistic despite it not being an actual speed, it mentions this.

"In addition, an attack from an omnipresent being is unavoidable with normal speed due to the attack being in every location in the universe at once."

In the event that a being were to dodge an attack from an omnipresent being, it implies something other than "normal" speed. Yet that still implies some kind of speed would be capable of it.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Is this omnipresence just in one instance of time or is throughout time as well?

I would say another possibility is that being able to dodge attacks from an omnipresent is not necessarily about speed, but a distinct power in and of itself

 

[DarkGrath]

I see. Is there any kind of name for this power?

For the sake of clarifying what I'm referring to in the OP, I'll give a very quick description of the feat I'm talking about.

Character A is nigh-omnipresent. He is a large void, and the entirety of the void is nothing but him, and as such he can be considered "Omnipresent within the void" (to vastly oversimplify). Character B ends up trapped inside the void, and from within the void, manages to essentially dodge the void's attacks.

How would this be classified speed-wise?

 

[GyroNutz]

An Omnipresent's attacks should theoretically be able to attack with 0 distance, with the time taken for said attack to land also being 0. So technically the only way to dodge said attack would be to be capable of moving in 0 time, aka having Infinite speed.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I'm not sure what to call it, but it reminds me of the ability to be a blind spot in otherwise omniscient beings

Is the void timeless?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Nope

 

[DarkGrath]

Tony is correct, at least as far as I am aware. How does the factor of the void being timeless affect it?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Because it means both characters are infinite in speed.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

The void being timeless means its definitely infinite speed

 

[DarkGrath]

I see. Well, as far as I'm aware, in this situation there isn't any explicit evidence that the void is timeless, so we can't assume it to be the case. Even so, at that given point in time, it was still nigh-omnipresent due to being the entire void and Character B was inside that void.

I'm a bit dubious about Infinite speed, the idea presented before about this being a case of a specific ability seems intriguing to me. I haven't heard of any such ability though. Does it exist?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Localiced omnnopresence or something like that.

 

[DarkGrath]

I meant, what Iapitus said. That dodging an attack from an Omnipresent being would be it's own power, rather than a measure of speed. I find that idea strange, but does it exist?

 

[Antoniofer]

Can't dodge and Omnipresent attack as it will hit you regardless of localization (talking about true Omnipresence). Only way to "dodge" an Nigh Omnipresent attack is to get out from the user's dominion.

However, if the attack itself can affect you or not is another subject.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

How are the other characters here able to fight against omnipresenct charactes then?

 

[DarkGrath]

I suppose some kind of intangibility would make it possible to... "dodge" omnipresent attacks?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

By resisting the stuff thrown at them, or by tanking it.

 

[Antoniofer]

I guess a power that allows to phase (if the attack haven't NPI) or reflect (depending of the nature of the reflection and the attack) the attack allows the user to avoid the effects of the attack, as well as invulnerability, but it can't be dodged in any way (talking about true omnipresence).

 

[DarkGrath]

Hmm... well, in the context it almost certainly seemed as though they were dodging the attack in some way. But if I remember correctly, they do have some kind of activated intangibility.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Post the scans of the battle and give more context so they can help more.

 

[Kepekley23]

I mean, it depends.

The being's consciousness is certainly omnipresent, but their manifestations/avatars/attacks may not be.

 

[DarkGrath]

Post the scans of the battle and give more context so they can help more.

Gotcha. It might take me a little while, but I'll see if I can get the scans of the battle.

 

[DarkGrath]

https://imgur.com/a/mBxI08U

Here's a picture on Imgur showing the scan in which the fight happened (as always, in case anyone has forgotten everybody should be very careful before clicking on these links to outside websites)

I'll highlight the important parts here.

"Somehow she knew that Dante was out there in the void" - Referring to her visions of the fight occuring. Proves that Dante is within the void itself.

"It had taken Dante a moment to realise that the void wasn't empty. The void was the king itself. Somehow he knew how to fight it, slashing at the darkness and instinctually avoiding attack." - Referring to Dante fighting against the void for the first time. Proves that the entirety of the void is "the king" (referring to Mundus), and also proves that he can dodge the void's attacks.

""I didn't think it would be this easy." Dante laughed. He nimbly danced around the most lethal attacks and made another play for the demon king." - Another mention of Dante dodging attacks from the void.

 

[Kepekley23]

Ah. I had a feeling this was about DMC.

I doubt that means much of anything, other than Dante having instinctive reaction.

 

[Antoniofer]

Note, my descriptions is that the attack itself its omnipresent/totality, attacks from an omnipresent not necessary have to be omnipresent (like Infinite Zamasu for example), in wich case can be dodged conventionally.

 

[DarkGrath]

Yeah, generally 90% of posts I make outside of F&G are about DMC. XD

In all seriousness, I'm a bit doubtful that instinctive reaction completely explains it away.

 

[Kepekley23]

It's unquantifiable aside from that.

 

[DarkGrath]

Surely this is not the only time in fiction a being has dodged an attack from an omnipresent entity? This may be a somewhat specific situation, but how would such a feat normally be handled?

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

I agree that this is unquantifiable and doesn't make Dante's speed infinite or anything.

One could simply argue that the omnipresence in question only means that Mundus himself is pesent and can manifest in every corner of the void, not that his attacks or slashes are omnipresent.

Kinda like teleporting and attacking, without the teleportation.

 

[DarkGrath]

I see. Paradox seems to give a pretty good explanation, actually. That would probably explain it.

And no, I'm not trying to get Dante to infinite speed. Even if this was an infinite speed feat, and it was valid, it'd be a laughable outlier.

 

[JackJoyce]

How are the other characters here able to fight against omnipresenct charactes then?

With similar range, hax and immeasurable speed

 

[Antoniofer]

Immesurable wouldn't allows one to "dodge" someone with Temporal Presence, as it is in past, present and future. Refering to omnipresencial attacks of course.

 

[JackJoyce]

Immesurable wouldn't allows one to "dodge" someone with Temporal Presence, as it is in past, present and future. Refering to omnipresencial attacks of course.

Not saying they're dodgable. Immeasurable speed can react to Omnipresents or attack them in all points of time

 

[Antoniofer]

Its the same issue with Infinite vs Nigh Omnipresence, using Immesurable to keep up with Temporal Presence wouldn't help as the Nigh Omnipresent its already there, meanwhile the immesurable needs to move there.

 

[JackJoyce]

Not the same. Immeasurable is beyond the linear flow of time and doesn't needs any time to react. I'm not talking about pseudo immeasurable like Flash. I'm talking about Thanos with The Infinity Gauntlet who's faster than abstracts

 

[Antoniofer]

Immesurable is moving through the axis of time rather than any space one, so moving to the past and surprise the Omnipresent wouldn't work, as it already known about it, as it exist everywhen. Anyway, Omnipresents are intangible as they exist everywhere/when and nowhere/when at the same time, if one want to damage it it needs an omnipresent/totality attack.

 

[JackJoyce]

I've already explained immeasurable is the Omnipresence for non-abstract entities.

"The difference between infinite and immeasurable is that the former can go everywhere instantly, whereas the latter can go everywhere and everywhen."

Look at the profile of Thanos

"Immeasurable (Those armed with the Infinity Gauntlet are swifter than abstract entities)"

Those abstracts are Omnipresent by the way

 

[Antoniofer]

Sounds contradictory, being more omnipresent than another omnipresent will simply disqualify one of them as being omnipresent; I'm talking about True Omnipresent, one exist in all spaces, times, dreams, inside everything, outside everything, etc. If Omnipresent is existing across time and space then simply getting out of these will allows one to "dodge" the Omnipresent.

Other thing, if the being is still limited to a "physical" form but with access to all its dominion then it would be a limited Omnipresence.

 

[JackJoyce]

Yeah well.. True Omnipresent can only be a Tier 0. Rest are Nigh-Omnipresent