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Discord VS Dovahkiin

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Why does the Dovahkiin even resist power null. I know Alduin has it but he never tried it on the Dovahkiin. And if the Dovahkiin doesn't resist power null how fast is Discord's power null?

"Dova just uses his 4-D mindhax"

Not only is that slow as hell, it is also probably not 4-D since its best feat is effecting most an island (not the entire island on top of that just most of it). The Dovahkiin's thought based BFR and low 1-C power absorption would make a lot more since to vote for because they are both faster and 100% better than the mind manipulation, but that depends on if the Dovahkiin truly resist power null.

Also the Dovahkiin shouldn't resist transmutation and I'm annoyed he somehow still has that. He's been turned into a cow by a novice mage, another novice mage (it was Neloth's assistance not Neloth himself) turned your eyes into tentacles. And finally the Dovahkiin can use novice alteration spells on himself without them auto failing.

What feat does he even have of resisting transmutation? I don't remember him resisting it once throughout the entire game yet people keep saying it working on him is plot convenience. It would only be plot convenience if has already shown resistance to it but he never did and is instead constantly effected by it whenever it actually hits him.
 
4-D Mindhax is like this because it can influence dragons, 4-D entities

He resists transmutation probably because the times whene he was transmuted were through spells
 
He never turned himself back after being transmitted. The mages had to fix him with their own spells.

Also not all the dragons are 4-D and the one that is Alduin resistance the mind manipulation. I've it comes from the Dovahkiin having 4-D power and all his shouts should scale to that since they all come from the same source, but bend will has anti feats. It fails to effect the Ebony Warrior, Alduin, Miraak, Neloth, Neloth novice mage (while it did completely effect other people that worked with Neloth just fine), and it only effect most of an island rather than the entire thing, with multiple random citizens it getting completely effect (they were effected but they didn't become mindlessly slaves building Miraak's temple like most the other citizens.
 
I want to say: I believe the Dovahkiin wins because apparently Discord needs to snap to power null vs the Dovahkiin's thought based high 1-B bfr.

I just think he shouldn't resist transmutation, power null, and that many of his other abilities are overhyped. Sorry if discussing them is a derail but those resistances have been annoying me since the profile was made since there are so many time we're all these resistances are contradicted.
 
I think those resistances comes from him being able to resist spells that have these effects. Like how you can theoretically resist transmutation by wearing items that resist magic. Also, I'm pretty sure that Discord's powers are magic-based.
 
Keeweed said:
I want to say: I believe the Dovahkiin wins because apparently Discord needs to snap to power null vs the Dovahkiin's thought based high 1-B bfr.
I just think he shouldn't resist transmutation, power null, and that many of his other abilities are overhyped. Sorry if discussing them is a derail but those resistances have been annoying me since the profile was made since there are so many time we're all these resistances are contradicted.
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He never has, snapping has always been optional. Besides, none of his powernull examples involved snapping in the first place.
 
Waria Kambang said:
I think those resistances comes from him being able to resist spells that have these effects. Like how you can theoretically resist transmutation by wearing items that resist magic. Also, I'm pretty sure that Discord's powers are magic-based.
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They are, that's how Archie Sonic stomped him
 
Oh. If Discord's power null is thought based then I'll vote Discord then. Alduin never even attempted power null against the Dovahkiin, and even if he did I'm pretty sure Discords is slightly better. As for the Dovahkiin's resistance to magic, it's really bad. There is nothing in lore talking about it and the enchantments only talk about percentages that would be gameplay mechanics here. Also you can't resist alteration spells because it would completely go against the entire point of those spells. (And the novice mages can still transmute you when you wear magic resist armor)

That wouldn't even be resistance to transmutation if it does come from enchantments because that would be resisting the cause (magic) not the effect (transmutation).
 
I'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
Wait, so if Dova has Low 1-C absorption by thought, then wouldn't this be incon??????
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No the absorption is from a staff but the mind hax requires him to say three long words, the Dovahkiin also says the words really slowly in game and even has a dramatic pause before saying the last word. The BFR is thought based.
 
Keeweed said:
I'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
Wait, so if Dova has Low 1-C absorption by thought, then wouldn't this be incon??????
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No the absorption is from a staff but the mind hax requires him to say three long words, the Dovahkiin also says the words really slowly in game and even has a dramatic pause before saying the last word. The BFR is thought based.
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Wouldn't that be Game Mechanics
 
It possibly is gameplay mechanics but pulling out a staff like the Dovahkiin does is already pretty fast and it's infinitely more effect. If thought based power null hits a thought based ability won't that ability get power nulled before going into effect? If it doesn't null it in time then I'll change my vote back to the Dovahkiin but I'm pretty sure the power null would hit the BFR and just cancel it out before it sent Discord off to Oblivion.
 
Keeweed said:
It probably is gameplay mechanics but pulling out a staff like the Dovahkiin does is already pretty fast and it's infinitely more effect. If thought based power null hits a thought based ability won't that ability get power nulled before going into effect? If it doesn't null it in time then I'll change my vote back to the Dovahkiin but I'm pretty sure the power null would hit the BFR and just cancel it out before it sent Discord off to Oblivion.
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No, because both hit at the same time, it either goes that he gets BFR'D or dova gets nulled
 
Talk about getting the short end of the stick then, because that means Discord gets sent to Oblivion anyways. Does Discord power null incapacitate the opponent?
 
What does the powernull even do from Discord, because I doubt it would mean anything for the shouts. Also if it's magic based Dovahkiin is basically immune to that.
 
If it just removes powers the Dovahkiin would probably win since Discord would be BFR'd while the Dovahkiin would just be weakened. Also in earlier games the staff of Magnus would restore your abilities when it was equipped so if Discord is removed from the battle field he wouldn't be able to stop the Dovahkiin from restoring his power.

Actually would this be a stomp since even with thought based power null Discord is just thrown out of the battlefield anyways.

Edit: I'm walking with my family right now so I'll respond later.
 
The Dovahkiin's resistance to magic is actually really good. Not only does he wear Savior's Hide that is capable of making someone invulnerable against Dagon's power (although Dagon was rapidly losing power), he also has Spellbreaker, which in lore have been stated to being able to passively silence mages before they can use their abilities. And the Brelyna example is not really good, because that is a scripted event, so even if you wear Savior's Hide, you would still be transmuted, which is completely ridiculous.

And Alteration magic work by changing reality according to your will. So if I cast transmutation on you, I'm basically changing the reality so that you will become a cow, and when I cast paralyzation, I'm basically changing reality so that you will get paralyzed. So when the Dovahkiin resist these alteration spells, he is basically resisting it's effects, rather than the magic.
 
That first one sounds like an outlier, dova has no low 1c resistances.

Mages only use low tier reality warping in elder scrolls, they can't change reality just to turn someone into a cow, it's just normal transmutation.
 
Iisdude1 said:
That first one sounds like an outlier, dova has no low 1c resistances.

Mages only use low tier reality warping in elder scrolls, they can't change reality just to turn someone into a cow, it's just normal transmutation.
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First of all, I'm not saying that the Dovahkiin has low 1-C resistance (hence why I give context on what happen), I'm just saying that his resistance against magic is not really bad like what Keeweed said.

Second of all, the feat is absolutely not an outlier, considering that Savior's Hide is a Daedric Artifact of Hircine, and he is kind of a big deal in TES.

For the second one, I will just let this book prove my point.

"To master Alteration, first accept that reality is a falsehood. There is no such thing. Our reality is a perception of greater forces impressed upon us for their amusement. Some say that these forces are the gods, other that they are something beyond the gods. For the wizard, it doesn't really matter. What matters is the appeal couched in a manner that cannot be denied. It must be insistent without being insulting."

"To cast Alteration spells is to convince a greater power that it will be easier to change reality as requested than to leave it alone. Do not assume that these forces are sentient. Our best guess is that they are like wind and water. Persistent but not thoughtful. Just like directing the wind or water, diversions are easier than outright resistance. Express the spell as a subtle change and it is more likely to be successful." - Reality & Other Falsehoods.
 
Sorry for not commenting earlier, but when it comes to Savior's Hide. Dagon is high 1-B but failed to kill a 4-C when he was weakened. That says way more about how weakened he was than the Hide. The Apprentice (The Elder Scrolls) had just used two different things to weaken Dagon then had someone else shoot him in the back; the hide only stopped the Apprentice from being paralyzed but that paralysis has only shown to work on one person who didn't even have resistances.

The Dovahkiin also doesn't resist alteration as it would make 80% of the spells completely worthless and novice mages have transmuted them before. Like how would Stone Flesh work if you resist it; kinda hard to turn your skin into stone if you can't be transformed in the first place. Even with magic resist you can't resist petrification in both Skyrim and Online both coming from novice mages (in online it sometimes comes from random guards).

Spell breaker based off the Eternal Champions matches has terrible range and it would be a NLF to assume it would stop the majority of Discord's powers.
 
Dovahkiin is pretty much immune to magic. Also selfcasting has nothing to do with your resistance to hostile spells. | You're also forgetting that the Apprentice uses Dagon's nymic to weaken him, which is a pretty damn big deal in TES, Vivec used it on Azura to turn her into nothing but fodder.

Also Spellbreaker nopes everything thrown at it in-verse, and scales to things like Savor's Hide that rendered people immune to a non weakened Dagon.

It's not NFL to assume powers working on other characters that don't resist those same powers.
 
Savor's Hide making him immune to a non weakened Dagon would be the biggest outlier of the century. Also I did know the apprentice weakened him with his Nymic I just forgot how to spell Nymic; I mentioned that Dagon got weakened multiple times.

According to every Eternal Champion match we've had on this site spell breaker's passive null has garbage range. And its active null only covers the front of your body. Also it hasn't shown to nope everything in verse it has only shown to nope the spells in game which would be basic elements for the most part. It doesn't block the effects of spells from illusionary and alteration spells because they never get a chance to active when they hit the shield. It just stops the magic which won't scale to any of the high tier characters since Jagar Tharn can still use his spells and his magic is just 4-C.
 
Explain how it's an outlier?

I mean, I doubt that, and even if true, it's wrong. Yes it has. It's been a long time since I've played Arena, but I'm 99% sure spellbreaker works on Jagar Tharn, you can show me clips if I'm wrong on that. Also all of those things are gameplay limitations which the lore supersedes and why are we talking about Eternal Champion anyway?
 
Because the EC uses spell breaker and spell breaker being as good as you claim would completely change a crap ton of matches he has had.

I'll discuss why I think it would be a NLF soon. I have class soon and a really bad headache (I originally thought my school would close for Presidents' Day but it didn't so that messed up a lot of my personal plans so I may have to respond tomorrow if today goes really badly).
 
Except that I was talking about when Chimere Graegyn was able to survive against Dagon's attacks long enough for him to use Dagon's Protonymic against himself. And no, it's not an outlier considering that Savior's Hide is a part of Hircine.

Second of all, like Ogbunabali said, self-casting has nothing to do with your resistance. You can resist paralyzation in-game with apparels, but your stone flesh still work just as good as when you are naked. That's an in-game instance where you could self-cast alteration spells without any drawback regardless whether you wear magical resistant apparels or not.

Spellbreaker was used against Shalidor, who is probably a low 2-C mage, and who is the master of all school of magics, so I REALLY doubt it can't nullify a more complex spells.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Daedric Artifacts man. They're broken as ****.
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Except they aren't. I remember Matt and Ultima repeatedly saying that the daedric artifacts don't scale to the princes. Daedric Princes fight each other multiple times so a small piece of Hircine being able to stop the full power of a daedric prince doesn't make any sense. Dagon wasn't trying at all at the end of Battlespire, the whole reason he lost was because he jobbed hard. Even after the Apprentice told Dagon he knew his Nymic, Dagon just continued to stand there rather than blasting the apprentice to pieces.

Jagar Tharn can still put up his force field despite being in spell breaker's passive silence range. The Ebony Warrior can resist literally all the daedric artifacts. He can't be killed by Mehrunes Razor, he can't be transmuted by the Wabbajack, his enchantments on his sword can't be blocked by spell breaker or the Savor's Hide. Miraak and Alduin can also resist multiple daedric Artifacts. So either all of them have high 1-B resistances or the daedric artifacts aren't as good as people are saying they are.
 
All daedric artefacts don't scale to High 1-B, no one is even arguing that. But most of them do scale to Low 2-C because of Savior's Hide.

And most of the things you described are just game mechanics, so moot point.
 
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