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Dio Brando vs Dettlaff van der Eretein

From what I've heard, one shot in fiction =/= one shot in VS Debating

Even the maxed out Geralt with all potions (Marine just did a thing: "Aerondight gives geralt a 10% boost, Greater chernobog runestone gives 5% but that can be staked up to 15%, The Doppler Decoction gives a 50% increase, and thunderbolt gives 35% increase) has a trouble against Dettlaff. Might be game mechanics, might be not.
 
>Yeah Dio's mindhax is also irrelevant since Dettlaff resists mindhax, Dio does not.

Half truth, Dettlaf resists some of Dio's mindhax, not all, he'd be able to resist Dio's hypnosis, about it, which DIO doesnt use as that was a Dio thing mostly. Doesnt matter if Dio does or not, they're both in the same boat here.

>I asked in actual fight. I remember him doing this twice against Polnareff, but overall, I remember him just shouting that THE WORLD shit, anyway it doesn't kinda matter, Dettlaff loves to become intangible.

Yes and? He has, you remember wrong, and he actually did it three times against Polnareff, technically four if you count when Pol stabbed him in the head. And did you ignore the fact he's never actually said the world to use time stop but rather to simply summon the world? Hell I even gave you the exact number (possibly more actually), for when Dio used it at a thought, several of which where when he was in a fight. Cool I guess? It was already established that he does, no need to repeat yourself.

>Dettlaff can teleport.

Which has no range listed on his profile, which leads me to assume it aint enough to come back from being launched past the horizon or into the stratosphere.

>Well nice, that I know.

Yes, so summoning isnt exactly an advantage here given Dio can do that too, and can even turn Delt's summons against him if he really wanted.

>Lol, I mean, he can't interact with The World so... he would just leave it since it's intangible and invisible as you said, or just teleport away, and if he could interact that would be one of the worst things he could have done because Dettlaff would rip him apart from the inside.

Except that would assume Delt knows about The World, he doesnt, he's not gonna go about things as if Dio has an invincible time stopping punch ghost he can't see because he'll just assume Dio is alone and hat's basically it. He wouldnt leave because he's fighting The World because he doesnt even know The World exists. Not how it works, the Stand can interact with him but he can't interact with the Stand, if he becomes fog within sucking range (so about a town in range), he's staying in there and it'd count as incap and even if he could interact and harm the world, he dont got the ap to do anything much to him, especially given the world has regen and can kinda just deal with internal damage just fine. Actually wondering how Delt would deal with being completely dispersed via air pressure given I doubt he's shown the ability to come back from that.

>The AP difference, well, I already said

Same, Dio and The World are physically stronger.

>Monster Dettlaff is superior to his transformed self, who's equal to experimental mutation Geralt in Blood and Wine with potions, who's much superior to his self from Witcher 1 without potions where he quite easily defeated a guy who casually did a 0.37 ton feat. I don't believe it's enough to one-shot, especially when Higher Vampires can survive as mush/being turned to little pieces and regenerate from that, greatly weakened Regis regenerated his heart in a heartbeat.

And HIGH Dio is vastly above his former self who can one shot characters who are stronger than the characters you're listing off. Not only that but he managed to overpower Star Platinum, the physically strongest Stand in history, who can one shot characters who can one shot characters who are stronger than the characters Delt is scaling off. HIGH DIO>=SP>>>>>Top Tiers>>Mid Tiers>>Mid-Low Tiers>The characters Delt' scaling is based on. And Dio can survive being blown to tiny bits as well, hell Dio doesnt even need to regenerate a good chunk of wounds. You're listing off things that apply to Dio as well, idk why you're acting like those are advantages over Dio when really it's something they both got.

>Yeaaah and they can actually regen their body parts. Dio needs to his own/other body parts that were severed from him to regenerate.

That's not even true, it just takes energy/stamina to regenerate if Dio wants to regrow things. Not that'd it matter given Delt is incapable of actually harming Dio to such an extent that it'd be like he got hit with Hamon or something.Delt isnt reducing Dio to such a point he cant regen from it.


And that's ignoring that the very first thing HIGH Dio does is lead and spam time stop because it increases with every use, Dio has ten seconds of time stop at the start, but this is HIGH DIO, it increases a bit with every use after as well. Nothing is really stopping DIO from instant leading with time stop like he does, then either mindhaxing or unleashing like a billion punches from both he and The World reducing him to a liquid, and you may say, well he can regen from that, yes, over time, in a fight though? Profile says the best he can do is organ and limb damage.
 
Honestly if Dettlaff can survive as ash Dio has absolutely no way to win this whatsoever. Won't bother Vaporizing Freeze because he literally never uses that and I doubt he even has it. I don't know why we even scale Awakened DIO to Part 1 Dio, the only thing he said is that he feels strongest as he ever, that's doesn't mean he has abilities of Part 1 Dio, it just means he's stronger than Part 1 Dio.

Dettlaf can apparently survive as ash and has mindhax that Dio doesn't resist. Dio has absolutely no way to put him down aside from Vaporizing Freeze which I don't believe he even has. Even if he did he never, ever uses it which means Dettlaf mindhaxes and wins 10 out of 10 times,

DIO can never win this. He can't reduce him beyond ash and never uses Vaporizing Freeze ever and I don't believe he even has it.
 
Can Dettlaf use his abilities after he's reduced to a bloody mess though? He can't regen from that with Low-Mid or Mid and DIO would win if he can't use his mindhax in that state
 
Because he's stronger than his Part 1 self and the only reason why he didnt have them before is because he wasnt adapted with Jonathan's body fully, HIGH DIO is now fully adapted to and fused with Jonathan's body, ie, that weakness no longer applies. He didnt lose them he just couldnt use them without damaging himself before. And the only reason why Dio didnt use them in story, meta reasoning being, Araki wanted to focus on Stands instead of vampiric powers and felt Dio would be more focused on the new world of Stand powers then a century old power that failed him, that's why, not that he lost the ability to but simply because he felt the world was the new hot shit.

Not how this works, and his good regen isnt combat applicable he can grow limbs in a fight, about it. And mindhax granting him the win 10/10? That's laughable and extremely hyperbolic, in that same vain Dio's mindhax grants him the win 10/10 out of ten because Delt doesnt resist biological mindhax that directly manipulates the biology of the target.

You shouldnt use such factual words like never when that's far from the truth, you come off as a bit ignorant no ofense. And yes, you've said you dont think he has 3 times now, heard you the first time.
 
SpookyShadow said:
Well I don't really have time to read these walls of text so I'll just gently leave
Click to expand...
Half of that wall text is just me quoting you, it's literally half as long as it seems.

>From what I've heard, one shot in fiction =/= one shot in VS Debating

I've seen the opposite used all the time, we just cant jumptiers from one shotting is all but if a character of the same tier one shot anther character of the same tier in the source material, the gap between said characters is one shot worthy even if theyre the same tier because authors dont really give ashit I guess? idk that's just what ive seen arund.
 
That's fine, tbh i have better things to do as well, as in I dont, but id rather finish a few games im playing then debate in general.
 
That's fine, tbh i have better things to do as well, as in I dont, but id rather finish a few games im playing then debate in general.
 
It is factual though, he never uses vaporizing freeze in Part 3. I didn't say "he will never use it" I said he never uses it. It's extremely OOC.

If Dettlaf can't use his mindhax stuff when he's reduced to something like a liquid then DIO can win via incap as Dettlaf can't regen from that, for a sec I thought he had Low-High regen but apparently it's Low-Mid.

I agree on The World being able to inhale intangible fog as it's same as SP who inhaled Justice which was basically Fog.
 
No but you did say DIO can literally never win this match, in which what I said applies. It is out of character yeah.

I dont even think he can do anything when reduced to such a state, his mindhax is vocal apparently, if he cant properly speak then he cant mindhax. And Given I dont think he can regen from having his chest torn out in a fight, overtime yes definetly given he can come back from liquid over time, in a fight, dont think so.
 
Bump and yes Low-High is not combat applicable since Regis stated that it would've taken centuries by himself and even when he was helped by another he was severely weakened from the process.
 
It's most likely incon either DIO beats him so bad via time stop muda rush or Dettlaf mindhaxes him

I don't think fras even valid they all assume sun will rise which it won't for DIO. Even if it did this fight wouldn't go that long
 
idk im probably gonna give it to Dio. HIGH DIO opens up with time stop right out of the gate, and Delt's mindhax has to actually be said, plus it isnt a guranteed lead for him. Statistically speaking, Dio would time stop him to the point he cant vocal mindhax more often than Delt mindhaxes.
 
I'd still give it to dettlaff tbh

It's also really weird why everyone forgot dettlaff can transform into his monster form which greatly shifts the tides of battle

not only does dettlaff have the range advantage but he can fly now and it doesn't hinder his speed at all and he can still use his intangibility while in the monster form

Yes i know, dio can fly too but not as effectively or even fast as dettlaff

And what can dio even do when dettlaff can fight even when intangible?

Yes there are wincons for Dio, tho it should be noted this fight isn't likely to end neithers death due to their immortality and Regenerationn and it's likely they are just gonna incap

Dio as said can MUDA MUDA his ass but it wouldn't be that effective without time stop because dettlaff style of combat is by being unpredictable as **** and he teleportes and uses his intagibility to attack an opponent from behind which he uses frequently and with monster form dettlaff can even unleash an attack that literally always kills geralt ingame


DIO wincon would be an easy one if dettlaff becomes to cocky and tries to attack dio in which dio will time stop and probably do a similar thing to what his so did

Dettlaff's wincon would be if he fights while intangible and mindhaxes dio in which it would be easy for dettlaff to tear dio from limb to limb

In all i do think that dettlaff has the advantage in wincons situations so i'm giving to dettlaff
 
>It's also really weird why everyone forgot dettlaff can transform into his monster form which greatly shifts the tides of battle

He'd have to actually transform first, and honestly, I'd doubt he'd even get the chance before Dio just stops time and pummels him a few hundred thousand times, so the moment the match starts.

>not only does dettlaff have the range advantage but he can fly now and it doesn't hinder his speed at all and he can still use his intangibility while in the monster form

Range advantage literally doesnt matter at all in the slightest, Dio can stop time. Dio can either be within cqc or so far away he doesnt have even have to worry Delt at all, all for free without any worry because of time stop. Also we already establised his intang is useless because The World is capable of inhaling and dispersing vast quantities of fog.

>Yes i know, dio can fly too but not as effectively or even fast as dettlaff

Actually he was able to straight up fly when chasing Joseph, doing uturns and the like and even evnetually caught up to him, plus time stop, speed is not and never will be an issue.

>And what can dio even do when dettlaff can fight even when intangible?

idk what can Delt even do when The World is always intangible and acn fight at the same time? All while time is stopped. Also as said, simply inhale or disperse the fog, given the world can do that to a town's worth of fog.

>Yes there are wincons for Dio, tho it should be noted this fight isn't likely to end neithers death due to their immortality and Regenerationn and it's likely they are just gonna incap

Yes but Delt's incap is long enough to serve as a win, his regen isnt applicable in a fight and if Dio can reduce him to such a state or close enugh, he'd win.


>Dio as said can MUDA MUDA his ass but it wouldn't be that effective without time stop because dettlaff style of combat is by being unpredictable as **** and he teleportes and uses his intagibility to attack an opponent from behind which he uses frequently and with monster form dettlaff can even unleash an attack that literally always kills geralt ingame

Dio's only gonna muda muda in time stop, not so sure why the mention of him not doing so within it is even a question, this version of Dio is on high, and does basically nothing but time stop because he broke his limit with it. Dio's not gonna do anything but time stop into a long term incap.


>DIO wincon would be an easy one if dettlaff becomes to cocky and tries to attack dio in which dio will time stop and probably do a similar thing to what his so did

What are you talking about? Delt can be cocky or super cautious, neither matters ecause if Dio stops time, which he will, Delt literally has no say in the matter. Dio can do whatever he wants to him and Delt cant counter or retaliate.

>Dettlaff's wincon would be if he fights while intangible and mindhaxes dio in which it would be easy for dettlaff to tear dio from limb to limb

Intangible is probably a lose condition if anything, as said, it's useless here because Dio can deal with fog based intangibility.

>In all i do think that dettlaff has the advantage in wincons situations so i'm giving to dettlaff

In order to give it to Delt the win you'd have to assume Dio is just gonna sit on his ass and not do anything when the match starts, that won't happen. The match is gonna start, Dio's going to stop time immediately and pummel him to such a point he's not gonna be able to regenerate (Dot forget that High Dio managed to cross a 2km bridge, jump up and away to find a road roller that wasnt anywhere in sight, come back with it all within half his time stop, dropping the road roller and the road roller clash and crush within just one second of the time stop and then monolouged for the following 3 seconds, to give you an idea how much shit this Dio can do in one time stop, wchich gets longer with each use and can be spammed), Delt is never going to get the chance to transform or turn intagible, and even if he did turn intangible, it'd straight up backfire on him and lead to his incap. And mindhax requires being able to speak, which he'd probably have issue doing without lungs or a crushed throat.
 
M3X said:
(going for FRA again because of the new new arguments btw)
Click to expand...
Except said argument kinda relies on Dio not using his main gimmick till it's way to late, in which HIGH DIO spams time stop beyond belief. Pretty sure over half his screen time took place in time stop actually.
 
The argument is that DIO spams time stop and keeps punching until he's paste at which point it'll take several centuries to regenerate from without another higher vampire's help.
 
Has anyone asked Ant to close this thread?

Either way, Dettlaff is gonna get upped to High 8-C soon.
 
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